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Pow/Vit/Tough or Pow/Prec/Tough?


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#1 Kanister

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:33 AM

As a Dungeon focus / WvW side Warrior?

#2 TGIFrisbie

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:43 AM

Vit isn't the best stat to stack on a Warrior, so it all depends on your health pool from your overall build.  Obviously if you have enough health without adding Vit, skip it.

#3 Brand

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:00 AM

Toughness>Vit in PvE, the other stats will depend on your build.

#4 MrCats

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:42 AM

Pick up the Knights.

#5 Requiamer

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:01 AM

I personally went vit over precision and compensate the lack of critic with furry buff that double your critical %. The buff can be obtained by utilities, skill, runes...

Edited by Requiamer, 24 November 2012 - 11:04 AM.


#6 dawdler

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:59 PM

View PostRequiamer, on 24 November 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

I personally went vit over precision and compensate the lack of critic with furry buff that double your critical %. The buff can be obtained by utilities, skill, runes...
Furry buff? Is that when you start growing fur all over your hands?

If you are talking about Fury, it only increase the chance. It doesnt double it. Also, precision over vitality any day of the week.

#7 Brand

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 06:02 PM

View Postdawdler, on 24 November 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

Furry buff? Is that when you start growing fur all over your hands?

If you are talking about Fury, it only increase the chance. It doesnt double it. Also, precision over vitality any day of the week.
Depending on your build...

#8 typographie

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:31 PM

View PostRequiamer, on 24 November 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

furry buff that double your critical %.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fury

Knight's gear is probably superior, warriors already have the highest base health in the game. Though Valkyrie accessories are a nice way to supplement Knight's armor if you're concerned about health.

#9 Requiamer

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:32 AM

ye sorry for the typo

#10 dawdler

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:12 AM

View PostBrand, on 24 November 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Depending on your build...
I'd say regardless of your build, unless you go for absolute max vitality (for some obscure reason that's beyond me).
You want to crit, plain and simple. Otherwise you hit like a wet noodle.

At least this is for the Warrior. For other classes, of course you might want to stack some vitality if you have like 13K HP...

#11 SpelignErrir

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 07:06 PM

View Postdawdler, on 25 November 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'd say regardless of your build, unless you go for absolute max vitality (for some obscure reason that's beyond me).
You want to crit, plain and simple. Otherwise you hit like a wet noodle.

At least this is for the Warrior. For other classes, of course you might want to stack some vitality if you have like 13K HP...

Well...40k hp is attainable if you feel like it, seems like it would be fun to use.

#12 dawdler

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:03 PM

View PostSpelignErrir, on 25 November 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

Well...40k hp is attainable if you feel like it, seems like it would be fun to use.
Sure its fun, until you realize you're a walking pinata with the offensive power of table fan. The only possible point I can see is WvW, playing a gigantic Charr or Norn and using yourself as a battering ram for a well organized group that cover you. In regular PvE its going to suck (no one need that amount of HP) and in PvP people will probably outheal your dps even if they have trouble killing you. But maybe I'll give it a try in PvP, it was long ago I even joined a round and could use a laugh, haha.

Edited by dawdler, 25 November 2012 - 10:04 PM.


#13 Brand

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:47 PM

View Postdawdler, on 25 November 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'd say regardless of your build, unless you go for absolute max vitality (for some obscure reason that's beyond me).
You want to crit, plain and simple. Otherwise you hit like a wet noodle.

At least this is for the Warrior. For other classes, of course you might want to stack some vitality if you have like 13K HP...
http://www.guildwars...lds-think-tank/

Not all builds use or want Crit, VS healing being a perfectly viable and helpful build, that uses no crit. With VS healing you can actually out heal guardians, guardians are for boon support, warriors are for flat out healing.

Edited by Brand, 25 November 2012 - 10:48 PM.


#14 typographie

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:23 AM

View Postdawdler, on 25 November 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

Sure its fun, until you realize you're a walking pinata with the offensive power of table fan.

Spoken like someone who's never been bored and curious enough to stick their finger in a table fan. :unsure:

#15 Enscheff

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:34 PM

If you go with a shout build you are going to already have a lot of Vit just from your trait points.

I would say a shout build with Knights armor and crit damage in your earrings is a good start for pretty much any Warrior. Then just tweak runes/sigils and other slots from there.

Edited by Enscheff, 26 November 2012 - 05:34 PM.


#16 Tubbz

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 06:19 AM

View PostBrand, on 24 November 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Depending on your build...
not really i have the best warrior in the world..... lol i dont but vitality for warrior is pretty uselss i mean spec in it to get healing shouts but generally on armour waisted crit chance... or condition if ur going that way

#17 Brand

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 06:42 AM

Sorta necro'd this thread, few weeks old. Anyway, he said Precision > Vitality, which I don't overly agree with. Toughness > Vitality definitely but your build may have no use for precision/crits and aka vitality would do it better.

#18 Pyrovore

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 07:05 PM

yay for resurrected threads. In my build, very similar to Brand's Sonic Boon, I rely a lot on precision and already get +300 vitality from Tactics so I am trying to get rid of it and get more precision. I find power/vit/toughness gear much easier to get than Knights though, mostly because it is sold by the Orr karma vendors and by PvP vendors, and it comes from HotW, which is easy to get a group for. Knights only comes from Arah or Sorrows, and these are much harder to find pug groups for (and my guild tends to prefer other dungeons). I'm now busy getting the ectos and scales together to craft Knight's Draconic armor myself (2/6 pieces atm).

#19 Nonlinear

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:14 PM

Power is the best scaling stat in the game so i went that over toughness as main stat on my gear.  Trinkets/weapons can be tinkered with depending on what you want to do, zerk for DPS, knight for tank/support/survival.  I run soldiers (P/v/t) with zerk trinkets and weapons when I DPS and get a little vit and toughness from the gear and still have over 45% crit from traits and trinkets and like 2,000+ power.

Running a tanky/support hammer build I've been using soldier's gear for the power, zerk neck, zerk ring, karka trinket, two knights ring with ruby jewels and a knight hammer.  Once you get past like 1,850-1,900 touhgness you can regen enough with signet, banner heal and 15+ in defense to put whatever you'd like in your other slots.

Edited by Nonlinear, 08 December 2012 - 11:15 PM.


#20 zoofman

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:07 PM

It's sort of funny. I find having a full set of Knight's armor is such a great thing for a warrior to have cause, far as I can tell, it's the armor EVERY warrior wants.  You're either using a mix of knights and berserkers for an offensive build or...whatever meatwalls want (I honestly haven't seen much on a good 'tanky' build in a while so out of the loop on them.) Only exception I can think of are sword builds w/ condition damage, but I can't really suggest them anyway given the condition cap we got to work with.

#21 Nonlinear

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:27 PM

IMO Knight's is way overrated for DPS because Power is only a secondary stat.

#22 MrCats

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:55 PM

View PostNonlinear, on 10 December 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

IMO Knight's is way overrated for DPS because Power is only a secondary stat.

Damage mitigation, crit chance, damage. Can't really go wrong with that.

#23 dawdler

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:43 PM

How can it be overrated? Its the only good combination for toughness builds that want to maintain some degree of offensive power. None of the other armour combos come close because you either replace power with crap stats you dont need (condition damage) or you replace precision for healing (which doesnt really scale well) and bump down toughness to secondary instead of power, which kind of ruin the point of focusing on toughness and having some offense. There are other combos for karma armours, but just like clerics they loose out on precision completely... Which make you hit like a wet noodle.

You obviously dont go knights in a pure dps build, you go full berserker. If you want toughness, knights together with berserker upgrades is the best toughness/dps option there is. So once again... How is it overrated?

#24 Nonlinear

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:16 PM

View PostMrCats, on 10 December 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Damage mitigation, crit chance, damage. Can't really go wrong with that.
Yes you can, i.e. when your crit damage from traits and gear is less than 50%.  In that case you don't get 1:1 return on all that precision in long run damage.  Most people who run things like all knights/clerics/etc. do so at the expense of like 30%+ of their DPS.  

I keep hearing how vitality is "useless" just because warrior have higher health and so don't go with soldiers gear but at least soldiers gear has power as the main stat while still providing enough defensive stats without sacrificing power.  What's your power when you run full knight/clerics?  Like 1,600?  Which is being modified by ~1,800+ precision of which only 50% gets applied to long run damage (assuming zero crit damage from gear/traits, most builds seem to get about 75% of their precision applied).  

I would much rather have 2k+ power with 40% crit and 200% crits than have 1,700 power, 45% crit, something like 175% crits and puny shout heals.

Just do the math, it's right there in the wiki:

http://wiki.guildwar...ki/Critical_hit


Expected damage = Base damage * (1 + (0.50 + (Critical Damage / 100)) * Critical Chance)

Edited by Nonlinear, 10 December 2012 - 09:26 PM.


#25 dawdler

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:50 PM

View PostNonlinear, on 10 December 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

I would much rather have 2k+ power with 40% crit and 200% crits than have 1,700 power, 45% crit, something like 175% crits and puny shout heals.
I am curious as to what armour you compare with that not only have eqvivalent toughness to knights, but also more power, about as much precision (5% is no difference at all, but clerics offer no precision so we cant be talking about cleric vs knights) and on top of that crit damage (which I only thought berserker and valkyrie had, none of which offer toughness).

Because whatever that armour is, it sounds awesome and I want it. Its like, beyond ascended!!!

If you completely ignore the toughness of knights, you're kind of missing the point (again).
Otherwise what you essentially said above is that a toughness Warrior is overrated for dps vs a glass cannon Warrior. To which my response would be... "duh".

Whether you choose to sacrifice toughness (or vitality) for dps (ie crit/damage) is of course your choice. But you have to make sacrifices somewhere.

Edited by dawdler, 10 December 2012 - 09:54 PM.


#26 MrCats

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:29 PM

View PostNonlinear, on 10 December 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

Yes you can, i.e. when your crit damage from traits and gear is less than 50%.  In that case you don't get 1:1 return on all that precision in long run damage.  Most people who run things like all knights/clerics/etc. do so at the expense of like 30%+ of their DPS.  

I keep hearing how vitality is "useless" just because warrior have higher health and so don't go with soldiers gear but at least soldiers gear has power as the main stat while still providing enough defensive stats without sacrificing power.  What's your power when you run full knight/clerics?  Like 1,600?  Which is being modified by ~1,800+ precision of which only 50% gets applied to long run damage (assuming zero crit damage from gear/traits, most builds seem to get about 75% of their precision applied).  

I would much rather have 2k+ power with 40% crit and 200% crits than have 1,700 power, 45% crit, something like 175% crits and puny shout heals.

Just do the math, it's right there in the wiki:

http://wiki.guildwar...ki/Critical_hit


Expected damage = Base damage * (1 + (0.50 + (Critical Damage / 100)) * Critical Chance)

I'm no shout healer lol. Your gear should reflect your build. If you need crit without being a wet sponge then Knight's is awesome. Accessories are always berserkers.

#27 Nonlinear

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:30 PM

It's called Soldiers Armor and I'm pretty sure there is a reason you can't craft it.  I have a little more than 1,850 toughness on my support warrior and my Hammer 1 still hits for 1k/1k/1.5k (2k/2k/3k on crits).  

But this forum would rather stack 2k+ toughness and have their hammer hit for 600/600/1200 so they can heal 1000 hp.  Then after trading off a quarter of their DPS and having fun with their gimmick in CoF runs that take 15 minutes to kill the effigy they complain about how SE path 1 is impossible.

#28 zoofman

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:39 AM

How the heck are you getting 2k+ toughness with just knights armor and berserker trinkets/weapons?

#29 MrCats

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:48 AM

View Postzoofman, on 11 December 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

How the heck are you getting 2k+ toughness with just knights armor and berserker trinkets/weapons?

I think linear means if you stack all knight's gear.

#30 zoofman

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:26 PM

View PostMrCats, on 11 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

I think linear means if you stack all knight's gear.

If we're talking about generalizations on a community, however, knight's armor and berserker accessories/weapons IS the most trumpeted setup for warriors, period.




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