I've been dinking with SWTOR again since I never did empire content much but it's basically just reskinned republic content and empire classes mirror republic classes so there's nothing special about that either. It's cool to do the whole overdone cutscene thing and cool to do instances with roles but sadly SWTOR never fully hit its potential and going from GW2 to SWTOR makes SWTOR feel like it's 10 years old (due to graphics, UIs/interfaces, and general clunkiness). Plus once you've done the hybrid style slightly more active content of GW2 or worse, the really active styles of Tera and/or RaiderZ style games, the old school tab target and whack style of MMO combat feels completely barbaric. I seriously need to get into Neverwinter beta (trinity style classes + action combat + hopefully without the mediocrity of tera content).
I convinced 10-15 people to play GW2 but most of them have lost interest and the ones who are still playing are generally bored even though so much of the game is so good. We've been talking about it and haven't entirely figured out what the deal is since so much about GW2 is amazing.
We think a big part of it (for us) is lack of trinity and roles and grouping just feeling very lacking. Most of us have been raiding for years and while I can do without it for now (since I was getting burnt on leading raids and guilds) a lot of my friends really miss structured raiding. Outside of raiding we've always been heavily into grouping and the grouping in GW2 just doesn't feel as compelling. It feels like 5 soloists sort of working together - which sounded really good but in reality just isn't as much fun (although I'm sure for people who prefer soloing to grouping in massively multiplayer games it ends up being just fine) for us since we're used to more role-oriented tactics.
The problem for us now is that it has taken ages to get enough of our group up to the point of doing a lot of grouping and now not enough people ever show up to DO that grouping.
I think part of it is how the build/weapon/skill system works. It's different and sort of interesting but the builds don't feel as compelling and feel more restrictive and it's not like you can say, I want to be a two handed mace wielding warrior with X skills because you're limited in weapon choices if you want to use particular skills. As with any MMORPG there's weapons/builds/talents/whatever that are consider the best or better so you end up with a whole lot of cookie cutting that's even more generic than ever due to weapon skill ties.
I think part of it F2P, which I'm growing really sick of in general. I hope it's a trend that goes away. Whenever the answer to a question in the game is "you get it thru gem store or gems" people always groan. When you pay a sub, you don't ever think about or ever have to think about these things, you just play. When money comes up regularly during gameplay, it gets to be annoying. When every holiday event involves heavy does of cash shop, it's annoying. I don't care how many people play MMORPGs and "free" usually means lower quality players who care less and behave worse since they have on investment.
For me personally - I was excited about the philosophical changes, attitude, and direction Anet TALKED about during development, beta, and before release. They have shifted directions on numerous elements that to me were core to their design and I find that irritating.
Millimidget, on 26 November 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:
The whole thing is starting to stink like a moneygrab.
Hard for it not to when the way they make their money is by steering people to the cash shop. This is why I'm already getting sick of F2P models. I would rather just pay a flat fee for a worthy game and have everything available rather than watch developers try to incorporate the cash shop into every element of development and design.
F2P models have come a long ways but I still always feel restricted, limited, or that nagging for cash feeling. The 15/mo sub model doesn't always feel worth it but IMO I'd rather see devs try to make it worth it (or *gasp* charge less per month) vs feeling nickel and dimed and I really don't care how many players a game has - I don't want to play games with people who think the world owes them free entertainment (to me most people who want games to be free are the same people who think pirating games or stealing music/videos off the internet are a god given right too).
Millimidget, on 26 November 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:
I'm coming to that conclusion myself; removing the trinity just leaves it a dodge-fest, with your highest DPS doing most of the kiting. While I've made the trinity work in some places, in others (ie most bosses) it's entirely unsuited. They definitely demonstrated that while the trinity isn't so holy, it does add a layer of depth that makes playing alts more interesting. At the same time, I'm glad they totally removed the dedicated healer role; I'd love to see a take on the trinity where tanks do most of their own sustain healing, while "healers" provide burst recovery.
I don't see how you could have the tank part of trilogy without healers. Self healing tanks would be even more OP than classes who lean this way how. Some people enjoy the healing role too (generally moreso than people enjoy the tanking role). Trinity works because of clearly defined and executed roles.
In trinity systems you can be that amazing tank or amazing healer (or even an amazing and intelligent dps that doesn't need healed incessantly) but there isn't much to distinguish you in GW2. Oh boy, you know how to dodge - grats - that's impressive. There was never any lack of react or die instantly mechanics in trinity content so dodge really isn't all that remarkable.
You have to say, what's worse? Having dedicated healers able to heal thru stupid and keep groups alive, or having downed state and the ability to run back to fights from the nearest WP to wear bossses down via attrition. IMO, having healers and no ability to win via attrition leads to way more heroic opportunities and moments vs the pretty much meh style in GW2.
Removing the trinity really hasn't added or helped much, IMO. You still see endless LFG spam. Guilds still group together. Friends still group together. Certain classes are still more/less desired. With gear tiers getting added gear will be a factor affecting grouping.
IMO group content is nothing special. There's some potential for synergies and working together but it's a lot more blurred and less intricate than trinity and clear roles. It feels like 5 soloists working together instead of a group working together.
Lack of trinity also kills any chance of structured group content beyond 5-man (which is already not very structured). Like real raids. Rift showed that you could have lots of variety here - open public pseudo-raids where role doesn't matter much, casual light raid content where gear doesn't matter much (like daily raids), serious grouping and raids, etc - lotsa variety in content with trinity and without trinity restrictions. It's somewhat sad that GW2 isn't setup similarly since it has SO much sexy content and sexiness in general.