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Where has everyone gone?


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#271 DuskWolf

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:22 AM

View Postpcpsong, on 03 December 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

Seafarers rest is as full as it ever was....'medium' :)
This irritates me.

The server population doesn't mean how many people are online, it tells us how many player accounts are tied to that server. ArenaNet employees have told us this a number of times. The game could be as dead as WAR and the servers would still be medium/full. I'm sure that any site that tracks server statistics would tell a very different story.

All I hear lately is 'ghost town' this and 'ghost town' that in regards to servers.

#272 Dal Minjo

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:51 AM

View PostDuskWolf, on 29 November 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

The reason he's saying this is because he's desperate, he wants to fool himself and when ArenaNet faithfuls argue with us, I find that they're not trying to convince us, but rather themselves. The desperation is due to their want for a walled-garden community where only those who have positive things to say can speak. It bolsters their cognitive dissonance and builds upon the illusion.

There's a difference between disagreeing with an opinion and wanting to shut down all dissent. The latter implies that our reasonable, logical, and sound arguments against things like taxes, vertical progression, bait & switching, and moving goalposts are actually striking a cord. They know we're right, but they want to hold onto the illusion for a little while longer that their vision of hte game is how it actually is. It'll take them getting stabbed in the back a couple more times by ArenaNet (at which point they'll hear further valid arguments against ArenaNet), but once that's happened the illusion will crash down.

Then they'll end up angry. What it is though is that they're afraid of looking like idiots. It's cowardice. I already manned up and said that I was a complete and utter imbecile for believing ArneaNet as long as I did, and I've apologised profusely to people who saw coming what I didn't. But not everyone can do that. Some people can't face that. So instead they come up with ridiculous arguments, boldly fallacious arguments, to put off having to face that for as long as they can.

This desperation and these ridiculous arguments just show that their resolve is breaking. They see what we do, but they're clinging to the illusion. The moment the illusion drops, they have to admit that we were right (hard thing to do!) and that they were being gullible puppets.

At this point, it's not even sport. It's a slaughter. We're getting increasingly more ridiculous and desperate arguments from the faithfuls. And the sentiment we hear most often is "Why are you still here? Why can't I have my walled garden which does nothing but reinforce my own delusionary opinion of this game? I shouldn't have to put up with this nagging and entirely reasonable feeling of doubt, or that fear that they may be right. I just want to eradicate them and remove them from my vision."

It's like the Internet forum version of "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

infract me mods, but someone has to say it. you have problems.

#273 el hefe

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:55 AM

it seems Anet wasn't/isn't immume to the trend most themepark games take these days.  successful at launch dwindling population in the months that follow.

#274 Syncline

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:47 AM

View PostDuskWolf, on 03 December 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:

This irritates me.

The server population doesn't mean how many people are online, it tells us how many player accounts are tied to that server. ArenaNet employees have told us this a number of times. The game could be as dead as WAR and the servers would still be medium/full. I'm sure that any site that tracks server statistics would tell a very different story.

All I hear lately is 'ghost town' this and 'ghost town' that in regards to servers.
My server isn't a ghost town, and is often 'full', which does change according to activity. There's even an activity tracker on 2RP so that folks who want to transfer in (and we're always getting more) know the best times to try to attempt it.

Re: the OP: I like the game and the people I've been hanging out with since launch also like the game. Some of us are also GW1 fans and still play both games.

Edited by Syncline, 03 December 2012 - 07:48 AM.


#275 Mouse1981

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:39 AM

To me, personally, vertical or no vertical progression is NOT the deal breaker. Not at all. I can find pros and cons to both models, and I can work with both equally.

What IS a deal breaker to me, however, is that the game is too shallow and too God damned boring.

#276 Mouse1981

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:54 AM

View PostEvans, on 29 November 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

Lovely of you to share your opinion.
Do you get paid per customer you reel in perhaps? I sure hope so.

Unlike GW2 PR deceptions, Planetside 2 doesn't need to pull any cons to get a good review on my behalf. Quality game, enough depth in mechanics and addictive game-play won me over. That MMOFPS actually has MORE player customization and RPG elements than GW2. Ironic and sad at the same time.

So no, I don't get paid. The game is just good. Also, try Far Cry 3. Not an MMO and not an RPG, but has more character customization and progression than GW2, like, 5 times more. GW2 could learn a thing or two about QUALITY from those two.

#277 Evans

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:07 AM

View PostMouse1981, on 03 December 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

Unlike GW2 PR deceptions, Planetside 2 doesn't need to pull any cons to get a good review on my behalf. Quality game, enough depth in mechanics and addictive game-play won me over. That MMOFPS actually has MORE player customization and RPG elements than GW2. Ironic and sad at the same time.

So no, I don't get paid. The game is just good. Also, try Far Cry 3. Not an MMO and not an RPG, but has more character customization and progression than GW2, like, 5 times more. GW2 could learn a thing or two about QUALITY from those two.

Surprised to see you pull this one out after such a while.
When I posted that each and every post you made was praising Planetside while bashing Guild Wars 2, thus I made the assumption there was something in there for you more than being the good Samaritan herding the masses away from the 'supposed' hell that is Guild Wars 2.

Your new sales talk still hasn't convinced me otherwise. I am happy for you that you enjoy Planetside that much though.

#278 pcpsong

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:05 AM

View PostDuskWolf, on 03 December 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:

This irritates me.

The server population doesn't mean how many people are online, it tells us how many player accounts are tied to that server. ArenaNet employees have told us this a number of times. The game could be as dead as WAR and the servers would still be medium/full. I'm sure that any site that tracks server statistics would tell a very different story.

All I hear lately is 'ghost town' this and 'ghost town' that in regards to servers.

Oh ok I'll clarify for you....

There are queues in all the WvWvW maps at primetime, there are continual groups running for dungeons and the like. It's actually one of those rare communities where alot of people know each other and the word PuG is almost a myth because you're just partying with people you know.... I know it's a difficult concept to get your head round.

So the word ghost town is not relevant to my experience with GW2

#279 pcpsong

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:11 AM

View PostMouse1981, on 03 December 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

Unlike GW2 PR deceptions, Planetside 2 doesn't need to pull any cons to get a good review on my behalf. Quality game, enough depth in mechanics and addictive game-play won me over. That MMOFPS actually has MORE player customization and RPG elements than GW2. Ironic and sad at the same time.

So no, I don't get paid. The game is just good. Also, try Far Cry 3. Not an MMO and not an RPG, but has more character customization and progression than GW2, like, 5 times more. GW2 could learn a thing or two about QUALITY from those two.

I love the shadowstepping of players as the servers struggle to maintain any semblance of stability in PS2, as for addiction and more RPG elements....ok if you like. And good luck further down the line when Smedley starts hitting you with the 'SOE' way of doing things, I truly hope you're happy together :)

And FC3 is a great game but.....there are only really 3 or 4 elements to it, kill human quests, kill animal quests, take out people in stealthy ways and shoot people in the face. Whilst they wrap them up in different ways they're ultimately the same thing.

Anyway it's all opinion, isn't that a wonderful thing :)

#280 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:40 AM

Agree, I've seen Android RPG games with better character customization than in GW2 and its really sad when you think about it.

#281 Mouse1981

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:22 PM

View PostEvans, on 03 December 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Surprised to see you pull this one out after such a while.
When I posted that each and every post you made was praising Planetside while bashing Guild Wars 2, thus I made the assumption there was something in there for you more than being the good Samaritan herding the masses away from the 'supposed' hell that is Guild Wars 2.

Your new sales talk still hasn't convinced me otherwise. I am happy for you that you enjoy Planetside that much though.

I haven't checked on these forums recently, due to lack of my interest in GW2. I usually drop by whenever I run out of addresses to visit online. :)

Replying to both you and Pcpsong in this one post.

I "praised" Planetside 2 in 2, maybe 3 posts. You can't really call me an activist. :) It is a fresh experience for me, therefore I'm sharing my new experience here with you, comparing games. I'm not bashing GW2, it is just that bad, I'm being objective on my behalf. By "objective", I mean I have no personal reasons to dislike GW2 other than I believe it is utterly horrible, a complete failure. Besides, no one can be universally objective, we can only speak from our own point of view.

Mind you, I own a copy of GW2. Meaning I wanted to like the game, but it just sucks.

As far as SoE business way of things goes, I do HOPE I don't get disappointed. So far - I'm having a blast. It could of course change, but I hope it won't. That doesn't diminish the level of disappointment that GW2 is.

#282 Evans

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:41 PM

View PostMouse1981, on 03 December 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

I haven't checked on these forums recently, due to lack of my interest in GW2. I usually drop by whenever I run out of addresses to visit online. :)

Replying to both you and Pcpsong in this one post.

I "praised" Planetside 2 in 2, maybe 3 posts. You can't really call me an activist. :) It is a fresh experience for me, therefore I'm sharing my new experience here with you, comparing games. I'm not bashing GW2, it is just that bad, I'm being objective on my behalf. By "objective", I mean I have no personal reasons to dislike GW2 other than I believe it is utterly horrible, a complete failure. Besides, no one can be universally objective, we can only speak from our own point of view.

Mind you, I own a copy of GW2. Meaning I wanted to like the game, but it just sucks.

As far as SoE business way of things goes, I do HOPE I don't get disappointed. So far - I'm having a blast. It could of course change, but I hope it won't. That doesn't diminish the level of disappointment that GW2 is.

Mmmm, I must have had a bad day then anyway because it's never my intention to make things personal.
I don't agree with your opinion, but I do respect it.

#283 Dabrixmgp

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:46 PM

View PostTenicord, on 02 December 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

People are leaving because GW2 is failing by the day. So they are returning to WoW when they have no choice but to admit that it is far superior.

MoP was a failure.  Boring as hell.  Ran LFR for a month on two characters never got loot just stupid bags of gold which are useless to me since I have over 100k. Forced to do dailies for rep so I cant buy epics off those vendors cause I hate dailes and efuse to do them.  WoW is going to show another loss when new quarterly numbers come out.  So I honestly dont know what people are playing.  Maybe everyone went back to console games cause I cant think of a MMO worth playing thats out right now.  Hell is anything good even in development?

#284 Mouse1981

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:56 PM

View PostDabrixmgp, on 03 December 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

MoP was a failure.  Boring as hell.  Ran LFR for a month on two characters never got loot just stupid bags of gold which are useless to me since I have over 100k. Forced to do dailies for rep so I cant buy epics off those vendors cause I hate dailes and efuse to do them.  WoW is going to show another loss when new quarterly numbers come out.  So I honestly dont know what people are playing.  Maybe everyone went back to console games cause I cant think of a MMO worth playing thats out right now.  Hell is anything good even in development?

I recognize WoW as a far superior game to GW2. Now: that doesn't mean I consider WoW a good game. I haven't played in such a long time, and when I received an e-mail from Blizzard to return for 10 days free, I was tempted. However, it took me just a glance at their forums to remind me why I quit that game, and that I don't really want to go back there ever.

I have the same feelings towards GW2, if not even stronger feelings than for WoW, but the difference is that WoW lasted me for 6 years, and GW2 for 2 weeks.

Perhaps it's a good idea that we all actually expect QUALITY games for which we pay for, rather than we take sides like soccer fans do, fighting over whose game is better. My vote is they both suck.

Well, I heard a Planescape: Torment sequel might be on the horizon, and that looks promising.

#285 AarodCutshot

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:56 PM

You all really need something to do with your time... Same Ole Thread diff day wondering where people are cause no one talks to them right off the bat... If you have time to wonder where people are you should be farming more lol :P I probably can find three other threads wondering where the people are too maybe you should ask in that thread.. Other then making a new one... Search is ontop type in bored, and no one to early to think of anymore...

#286 Anzuri

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:05 PM

View PostSilvercat18, on 24 November 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

The people who are sticking with guildwars are those who knew what they wanted when they came.

I am a fan of WvW and i still have much fun when i do it.

....though i wish arenanet paid more attention to that fact and gave us proper rewards....

Agreed. I am in the same boat as you. But do find us wvw players seem to always be an after thought with pve being more important. The new interview has hinted some wvw focussed content in Feb. I do hope they plan on doing something for wvw before that or I fear Feb is way too late and people will pull out

#287 megamacka

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:56 PM

My problem with the game is that it feels like a gigantic zerg fest. ESPECIALLY the events.
There isn't really any real teamwork ( kind made even further obvious by no real roles ). It's sad really, because I really want to like the game. And here I am, every day trying to find a reason to actually go back and play the game but I can't. I just feel no drive to log back on. /sad face

#288 Asudementio

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:23 PM

View Postshanemckay1, on 03 December 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

i actually told you all on here over a year ago and repated numerous time. Most of post have been nnegative and warning. This is not GW1. This game that had been in dev for 5 years ago, should have been out 18 months ago with new graphics engine. Can you tell me why not. Don't give me when it done its done. That phrase ddont mean a thing when you have potential customers.

When you begin a project you don't change over to a new engine 3 and half years in. Also when you scrap your initial game design systems and pitch a game for a different crowd it takes time to tie everything together as coherently as possible.

View Postel hefe, on 03 December 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

it seems Anet wasn't/isn't immume to the trend most themepark games take these days.  successful at launch dwindling population in the months that follow.

People are just happy with vanilla. Sure super awesome fudge may be great when it comes out but as long as good ole vanilla is still kicking strong people will go back to it. I get the feeling MMO players will have to be dragged kicking and streaming into the next generation of MMOs, because so far they just aren't buying in.

View PostMouse1981, on 03 December 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

To me, personally, vertical or no vertical progression is NOT the deal breaker. Not at all. I can find pros and cons to both models, and I can work with both equally.

What IS a deal breaker to me, however, is that the game is too shallow and too God damned boring.


shallow as compared to what MMO?

View PostMouse1981, on 03 December 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

Unlike GW2 PR deceptions, Planetside 2 doesn't need to pull any cons to get a good review on my behalf. Quality game, enough depth in mechanics and addictive game-play won me over. That MMOFPS actually has MORE player customization and RPG elements than GW2. Ironic and sad at the same time.

So no, I don't get paid. The game is just good. Also, try Far Cry 3. Not an MMO and not an RPG, but has more character customization and progression than GW2, like, 5 times more. GW2 could learn a thing or two about QUALITY from those two.

Are you saying GW2 isn't a quality game or just could stand to improve its quality of customization and its depth?

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 03 December 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Agree, I've seen Android RPG games with better character customization than in GW2 and its really sad when you think about it.

Sad how? Anet didn't focus heavily on character customization it seems. I wish they did and hopefully they will, but the amount of effort directed towards improving a gameplay element dictates the end result. If an android developer went all out on character customization and anet didn't would that make anet a bad developer?

View PostMouse1981, on 03 December 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

I haven't checked on these forums recently, due to lack of my interest in GW2. I usually drop by whenever I run out of addresses to visit online. :)

Replying to both you and Pcpsong in this one post.

I "praised" Planetside 2 in 2, maybe 3 posts. You can't really call me an activist. :) It is a fresh experience for me, therefore I'm sharing my new experience here with you, comparing games. I'm not bashing GW2, it is just that bad, I'm being objective on my behalf. By "objective", I mean I have no personal reasons to dislike GW2 other than I believe it is utterly horrible, a complete failure. Besides, no one can be universally objective, we can only speak from our own point of view.

Mind you, I own a copy of GW2. Meaning I wanted to like the game, but it just sucks.

As far as SoE business way of things goes, I do HOPE I don't get disappointed. So far - I'm having a blast. It could of course change, but I hope it won't. That doesn't diminish the level of disappointment that GW2 is.

By what standard is GW2 "a complete failure"?

View PostMouse1981, on 03 December 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

I recognize WoW as a far superior game to GW2. Now: that doesn't mean I consider WoW a good game. I haven't played in such a long time, and when I received an e-mail from Blizzard to return for 10 days free, I was tempted. However, it took me just a glance at their forums to remind me why I quit that game, and that I don't really want to go back there ever.

I have the same feelings towards GW2, if not even stronger feelings than for WoW, but the difference is that WoW lasted me for 6 years, and GW2 for 2 weeks.

Perhaps it's a good idea that we all actually expect QUALITY games for which we pay for, rather than we take sides like soccer fans do, fighting over whose game is better. My vote is they both suck.

Well, I heard a Planescape: Torment sequel might be on the horizon, and that looks promising.

The comparison of the times you spent playing WoW and GW2 is an unfair and invalid comparison. First of all GW2 has been out for a few months and WoW for years making the comparison laughable from the get go, but beyond that the circumstances surrounding your willingness to play and your means are unaccounted for.

View Postmegamacka, on 03 December 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

My problem with the game is that it feels like a gigantic zerg fest. ESPECIALLY the events.
There isn't really any real teamwork ( kind made even further obvious by no real roles ). It's sad really, because I really want to like the game. And here I am, every day trying to find a reason to actually go back and play the game but I can't. I just feel no drive to log back on. /sad face


The game does feel like a gigantic zerg fest despite it not being one. Fractals are a step in the right direction, but it is a perception Anet has to address and fix.

#289 Edbert

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:24 PM

Regarding people in your guild that do not play anymore you need to ask them not us. In general, wandering around the explorable areas, one can come away with the wrong impression that nobody is playing this game. I find some areas and DE chains that used to be packed with players (Kol in Harathi Hinterlands is a perfect example) are now deserted. The same is true for some maps/provinces. My opinion is that many players have found better ways to level up (power-leveling with guildies) or that they just play the 70+ areas where the drops and cash are better. There's a number of places that are still quite crowded during prime time, like the Lone Point DE chain in straights Of Devastation. At certain times of day you have to fight for kills if you are under leveled due to crowds.

Our guild has ~500 players and the chat window often scrolls by faster than I can read unless I'm idle somewhere and just reading.

I think most people are just grinding their way to the gear they want by hunting a specific drop, or running their fractals and dungeons. In other words they have found the area that they consider the most fun or best profit and simply stay there. Of course the need for people to grind for their gear is another topic entirely so I'll leave that alone

Lastly, I always find it interesting to the point of being amused at how many people who say they have stopped playing still post on the forums :-D

#290 Red_Falcon

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:27 PM

I love that every single MMO's forum has a thread like this.
"Where is everyone, game is dead, game sux OMG fail of the millennium P2W casual garbage raptor jesus lollercopterz"

#291 Zhahz

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:39 PM

My current theory is that the problem with most MMORPGs these days is that they try to be everything to everyone, and in doing so, end up simply not having enough content in reasonable amounts of time for any one segment of the population.  So you end up with MMORPGs that take years to develop that players get tired of very quickly because while over there may be stuff to do, it's not really what they want to do.

I view these segments as:

- people who want to solo exclusively (and who should be playing single player games)
- people who want to primarily PvP (and who should be playing games more suited to PvP)
- people who want to do group-oriented PvE (what MMORPGs are all about and the only place this type of content exists)

IMO, group-oriented PvE is what sets MMORPGs apart and what makes them unique and special, and that is what MMORPG developers should focus on.  So OK, you might lose out on a few hardcore soloists, but that doesn't matter because they're playing by themselves anyways and useless to the core audience of groupers.  You may lose out on a decent sized chunk of PvPers but that also doesn't matter because they're not as interested in the core PvE game and are just playing the small chunk of slapped on mediocre PvP content.

PvP fits the least, IMO.  It has entirely seperate content and balance concerns that often clash with the PvE core.  You kind of need to have some solo content since grouping 100% of the time isn't realistic but the focus could be on group content at all levels with some solo available instead of having one part of the game being solo ez-mode then having endgame that is usually all about grouping.  Why have the leveling part be so different from the "real" game...just to sell a few boxes to people who want to play the wrong genre?  Not a good enough reason.

If devs were to focus more heavily one ONE aspect of what currently makes up MMORPGs, and make it be that one aspect that actually defines, is unique to, and is what makes MMORPGs so amazing - the group oriented content, then they could produce more of such content at launch to keep players around longer, and since they'd have a narrower focus for putting out additional content to keep players around.

What I see lately is even good MMORPGs are losing a lot of players after a short amount of time, and it's mostly because there is nothing for them to do.  Soloists play the "single player campaign" - they level to max, maybe level and alt, and the game is basically over for them if they're not willing to group.  PvPers usually have so little content to do that it can easily get old fast, even in a game like SWTOR where there were gear rewards - players were maxing out those rewards in a week.  When you do the same dungeons while leveling that you do as hardmodes that gets boring fast.  At least GW2 has variants and way more potential dungeon variants than most ship with, but it's still utterly static content and lacks randomization in content.

Then as the game moves forward from release and players start dropping off, devs scramble, panic, start trying to come up with ways to keep each segment happy, and usually make a mess doing so, causing alienation and more people to leave.

So I dunno.  I love MMORPGs.  I'm not against soloing, but I'm tired of the solo emphasis for leveling in with scant group content in games where grouping ends up being the core of PvE in the "real" game (endgame).  I like PvP but I don't think PvP blends well with PvE-centric MMORPGs.  It ends up being slapped on, a contained mini-game, it has different rule and balance needs, and it's too big a minigame to fit without a lot of pain.

To me what makes MMORPGs the amazing games they are is the social, grouping, and co-op play that you don't find in any other games.

If you just want to solo, there are tons of single player games out there.  There's nothing special about soloing in a persistent world if you're not really a part of that world.

If you just want to PvP there are tons of games with PvP out there, most of them doing it way better (offering better balance and real competition).  There's this new game called Forge in the works that looks to be MMORPG PvP without the PvE side - which I think is what a lot of people really want.  Looks interesting for pure PvPers who want that fantasy/class feel.

It seems like it's been ages (has it ever happened) since a quality company made a big MMORPG that was purely PvE and heavily group-based.  It would be interesting to see what could be done without needing to focus so much on solo and especially without having to incorporate PvP.  Instead of the "we have teams for this and that" for completely seperate styles of gameplay it could be something more like we have teams for open world dungeons, teams for instanced dungeons, teams for raids, teams for instanced dungeons with scaling content for all levels and groups sizes with random mobs and loot, and so on.

One can dream.

#292 Nox_Aeterna

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:07 PM

View PostRickter, on 01 December 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

ive raided in WoW (had full item level 264 gear BEFORE the actual lich king wing in ICC was released)

and i completed all hardmode flashpoints as a MT and had full champion gear BEFORE 1.1 launched in SWTOR - yeah back when it was hard as hell because you could go through 25 champ bags without any gear.

so im a PVE AND PVP elite.  and this isnt even counting all the other mmos ive played.

but i aggressively defend GW2.

why?  because ive seen the extremes of both sides of the spectrum.  and i see that GW2 does what it does, the best. i dont think this game is perfect - hell ive crashed so many times its not really funny - hell, i got a 72 hour ban within 24 hours of buying the game two months after launch, over soemthing stupid.

but ive accepted this game for what it is.

and thats the main issue with folks like Duskwolf and threads like these.  you guys are so caught up with how this game is nothing like GW1, and how this is too much like WoW, and how this and that and the third, when all the information was there.  ANet made several official statements regarding what GW2 was going to be like and what to expect from this game.

this is an acceptance issue.  something that many of you cant seem to do.

i played BWE2 - hated GW2 because i thought i had it in my head what this game was SUPPOSED to be, i went to Gamestop and CANCELED my Collector's Edition pre order.  played the secret world and Rift.  decided, GW2 is what my wife and i needed with our work schedules and what we wanted out of content and community, so after ENORMOUS amounts of research and watching gameplay vids and reviews, i purchased the game a full 2 months after launch.

and i couldnt be more happy.  because i did my research, i knew what to expect and im not putting unrealistic expectations on this game or its developers.

And that one part there , the part where you say how they said how this would be.

That is the point for me.

It should be a game where there is horizontal progression , where there is NEVER need to grind for max stats gear and so many other things.

Do you remember those promises? Cause they were all said by the devs.

But hey , money moves mountains and now the game is becoming like this.

So like i said on many other posts. The fact is , Anet already changed this game from what they said it would be.

#293 Babylon

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:30 PM

View PostNox_Aeterna, on 03 December 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

It should be a game where there is horizontal progression
I find it hard to believe that ANet didn't know what they were getting into when they promised this; making a game where progression is horizontal would require a lot of work to be going on constantly.
If you intend for players to not spend most of their time at 80 grinding for gear as a form of progression then they'll expect to have a constant stream of good quality endgame content to play through, and making that much (i.e. a constant stream of it) is an impossible task. They should have considered this.

Gear grind is what happens when devs stop providing players with other, more entertaining, real gameplay. If every week they provided players with a large chain of quests interspersed with DEs, for example, that would keep people busy and happy, but that's just not possible.

It's like when you play a non-MMO (you know, like any console game): you get through the story, which was fun, but then you just find yourself collecting flags or hidden artefacts to unlock things for a game you've already finished. What's the point?

#294 chuckles79

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:49 PM

The horizontal progression was a bit short-sighted.  I can level a human up with never leaving Kryta.  That means that I can get through the game with never seeing the Charr areas, the Norn zones, or so pitifully limited Asura and Sylvari zones that they actually catalogue Mt Maelstrom as part of the Maguuma....
There is a fine line between grind and having people fully explore a game.  They didn't hit it.

As for grind, the only grinding now is for legendaries and the godawful FotM.  The FotM has left so many fans of the game dissatisfied that it can only be called a huge mistake.  On top of it, they had everyone invite their friends so they could hear everyone complaining about the changes.  Way to go for full on PR catastrophe, ANet!

I'm still going to play and enjoy this game, but there needs to be a long, no comments barred "bull session" over at ANet where they take a long hard look at what worked in GW1 and GW2 to date, and figure out what people hated and what was enjoyed..

ie. Halloween was ran very well.  It featured unique cash shop goodies (did in GW1 too, no hate) it had content that took place over time and did not offset any major balances in the game.

Compare to Lost Shore, which had a one time finale event that lasted 3 hours, but no one knew that so many people were unable to finish it after starting, or at least are still in trouble with their loved ones.  They had a really buggy system of letting people know what was going to happen or why.  

Also their policy of starting everything on Friday at Noon is REALLY getting annoying to NA and probably Oceanic/Asian folks too.  Last time I checked this was a game for players worldwide, not primetime in the UK only(no offense EU folks, but it's systemic with ANET since Beta).  Either stagger start times by server zone or start early on Saturdays (late night Oceanic, Early morning NA, late afternoon EU).

Lastly, as for character balancing...know what, don't change a thing!  Because I've read the signs and know that just like they broke GW1 for years with the assassin, that the thief will be overpowered forever.  I only curse myself for waiting 2 months to start one because their pattern was obvious to see.  Keep nerfing support classes, keep buffing the high crit class that looks squishy on paper but due to over-abused skillsets might as well be Easy Mode.

If I'm still eager to get on the same Hamster Wheel in 7-9 years when GW3 comes out, I'll remember this moment and be sure to start my character as whatever stealthy-shadowy-steppy thing that gives Izzy a raging...yeah.   That's always the one to go with, just stay away from anything that looks heroic, has heavy armor, and/or provides any kind of indirect protection or support.

Edited by chuckles79, 03 December 2012 - 11:50 PM.


#295 jubjub1277

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:05 AM

We can all wait till wintersday to see what happens. If that fails im sure most of us will just give up on the game.

#296 slyraje

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:10 AM

I quit because the game was crashing too often.  I couldn't get the issue resolved, so I moved on to other games.

#297 fatrodmc

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:28 AM

View Postchuckles79, on 03 December 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:


The horizontal progression was a bit short-sighted.  I can level a human up with never leaving Kryta.  That means that I can get through the game with never seeing the Charr areas, the Norn zones, or so pitifully limited Asura and Sylvari zones that they actually catalogue Mt Maelstrom as part of the Maguuma....
There is a fine line between grind and having people fully explore a game.  They didn't hit it.

Spot on I think. Everyone should be incentivised to explore different zones. Z-coins and daily quests did that quite nicely in GW1.

Also I think the title grinding of GW1 was much more preferable to ascended/legendary. Even though it is arguably still grinding, it had nothing to do with max stats. And there was so many titles you could just go for a few if you wanted.

#298 Mouse1981

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:21 AM

View PostAsudementio, on 03 December 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

shallow as compared to what MMO?



Are you saying GW2 isn't a quality game or just could stand to improve its quality of customization and its depth?



Sad how? Anet didn't focus heavily on character customization it seems. I wish they did and hopefully they will, but the amount of effort directed towards improving a gameplay element dictates the end result. If an android developer went all out on character customization and anet didn't would that make anet a bad developer?



By what standard is GW2 "a complete failure"?



The comparison of the times you spent playing WoW and GW2 is an unfair and invalid comparison. First of all GW2 has been out for a few months and WoW for years making the comparison laughable from the get go, but beyond that the circumstances surrounding your willingness to play and your means are unaccounted for.


Ok:

Shallow. Just shallow. Why do I have to compare it to any other game in order to conclude and state that the game has no depth or any interesting mechanics? It's not a contest. But fine: shallow compared to PS2 (PS2 has way more room for tactical play and character customization, has interesting mechanics, and it's a FPS for the love of God), shallow compared to Far Cry 3, shallow compared to WoW (although, once again, I stress that WoW is a real let down ever since WotLK), shallow compared to many other games too probably, GW2 really doesn't have much to offer.

I am saying GW2 isn't a quality game, yes. It's also regarding quality of customization and depth, it's very connected. If GW2 was to be redesigned in such a way that it allows much more customization, more skills, more in depth interesting mechanics - it would THEN be a quality game. Aren't those the important ingredients?

GW2 is a complete failure by my standards. After all, we can all judge only from our personal point of view. It might be awesome for you, I'm not arguing that.

The comparison of times between WoW and GW2 aren't tied to their existence. It's tied to the time they were able to hold my attention. WoW managed to do that from it's very release date to 2010. while GW2 lost me after 2 weeks. And GW2 was in advantage here, being that it's a much newer game and had all the time in this world to learn from other games, even from WoW. GW2 has INCOMPETENCE written all over it.

#299 DuskWolf

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:14 AM

View PostBloodtau, on 03 December 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

Everyone is playing Planetside 2
Or other, better (than GW2) games, yeah. Pretty much.

Mass Effect 3 for me, which I am loving the heck out of again. Just got a turian havoc! That's making an interesting change from my geth engineer. I really wish that ArenaNet knew how to put together a class (or 'profession') that's just so blatantly fun to play, they could learn a lot from Bioware in that regard.

I've just had so much fun with the various classes on offer and their different skills, they actually feel really different, too. Rather than just reskins.

Edited by DuskWolf, 04 December 2012 - 10:14 AM.


#300 Evans

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:02 PM

Funny, I happen to know a thing or 2 about Mass Effect 3's multiplayer. Same old random maps rotating, same old same fighting.

Then using the same old same rewards you get from finishing a part, you can gamble away trying to unlock other races, classes, weapons and upgrades. So you can grind to get enough money to buy more packs, or you can dish out some cash to buy them quicker and still be a victim to the RNG.

Sounds familiar no?




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