586 replies to this topic

[TGIFrisbie]

Xodiak, on 24 November 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

You swung and missed on my point.

No I refuted your incorrect statements.

Also I didn't play GW1 after the first 2 years, stopped at EotN's release.  I didn't grind for mats or whatever was later introduced, I did farm drops for money to fuel vendor purchased set gear for looks.  This was before the (evidently) later added "styles" or costumes.

The gear grind has been around since MMOs have been around.  The fact this game was SOLD as a NO GEAR GRIND game and then reversed flat out pisses a LOT of people off.  While some have moved on, far more will move on now.

The topic is where are the peeps.  Some left cause they didn't read the sales pitch and found no gear grind.  Anet bowed in, but they won't get these peeps back.  No one is returning for a gear grind.  Why even gear grind in this game, the gear grind in this game is sub-par to WoW.  If I wanted a gear grind I would be playing in the MOTHER OF ALL GEAR GRIND games, World of Warcraft.

Now that they stuck their finger in the eye of those of us who bought this game largely on the premise that once we had max level toons and got them geared, we wouldn't be repeating this process over and over adinfinitum.  Believe it or not some human beings that play MMOs get their EGO on in real life.  I don't need to constantly feel I am getting more powerful in an freaking game.  Now I am not gonna put down those who crave this and need this, that's their issue.  But the game was sold as NO GEAR GRIND.  The peeps leaving over this might return IF they reverse themselves once again, but they won't, they have obviously invested to much time and energy and someone is pulling this string to make it happen.

So...where are the peeps?  If they only left for the gear grind, why aren't they coming back?  It's here!

Edited by TGIFrisbie, 24 November 2012 - 08:52 PM.

[Tumaras]

The folks that are blaming the low activity on the Thanksgiving holiday, semester timing, solar flares, Mayan calendar, etc. are grasping at straws and are probably going to be disappointed.  I wouldn't expect a huge return of people all of the sudden next week after the holiday (or ever ftm).  The reasons many people left GW2 have been said here and on the official forums so many times that I won't beat a dead horse and repeat them here.  I also think that more people left because of the poor direction Anet took the game, than left for some other new shiny game that came out.  Although there is always some attrition to other games, it wouldn't have caused the game to drop like a rock like it did.

At the core, the game could be really truly great.  But it's a short window that ArenaNet has to fix the problems and undo the damage to the image of the game in the eyes of the player base that has been done.

[Xodiak]

TGIFrisbie, on 24 November 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

So...where are the peeps?  If they only left for the gear grind, why aren't they coming back?  It's here!

This is not even CLOSE to a gear grind. Raiding in Rift/WoW .. for top end gear with absolutely tough challenges in large groups..where only a few select pieces of gear drop.. that's a grind!

[SevereEpicz]

well, i bought black ops 2 so that has been keeping me busy and my internet broke for a couple days. I'll still come back, there are other games out there and other thingss to do, just because people arent on as much doesnt mean that theyre not coming back

[TGIFrisbie]

Xodiak, on 24 November 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

This is not even CLOSE to a gear grind. Raiding in Rift/WoW .. for top end gear with absolutely tough challenges in large groups..where only a few select pieces of gear drop.. that's a grind!

Anet has stated they are not done with the "gear progression".  More to be rolled out, but the better answer you are looking for is this...one you missed by getting into the gear grind is why peeps left thing to begin with...

The game is LACK LUSTER for PvE content.  Period.  This is why the majority of us GW1 players did not buy this game for end game PvE, we didn't even EXPECT end game PvE.  Guild Wars was a PvP game.  Everything else was tacked on.

Issues with GW2 PvE:

1. Dungeons are boring, tedious and generally not a lot of fun.  Hell I had more fun in WoW instances with PUGS...
2.  There are no raids.  I was glad this wasn't in GW2, but the peeps who left left because of things like this not being there.
3.  The dodge mechanic in PvE needs to go.  It's very lame.  In GW1 Dodge was completely intuitive, you moved your ass and stuff missed.  Dodge mechanic is fine for PvP/WvW, but really just bogs down PvE.
4.  Weapon skills are learned by level 2...LEVEL TWO.  Now only 78 more levels to go!
5.  The majority of Utility Skills are so impaired as to be thin on fun factor.  Got a nifty skill thats halfway useful?  Stick a long cool down on that puppy!  Got a utility that is very niche or hardly used?  Oh well get over it!  Got a decent elite?  2 min CD!  Seriously flawed fun factor here.

I could go on, but these are the kinds of issues that have caused peeps to leave this game, and will continue.  Putting in more "gear progression" will not solve it.  Nor will MORE JUMP PUZZLES!  CAN I HAZ MOAR JUMP PUZZLES?

None of this is directed at you Xodiak, it's just this is why I think the peeps you mention wanting gear grind left.

Edited by TGIFrisbie, 24 November 2012 - 09:35 PM.

[DuskWolf]

Got fed up! Guild Wars 2 isn't the game for me, not the same game as they promised me. And I'm not the type to suffer cognitive dissonance. Especially with that recent gear treadmill thing. So I'm gone fishin'!

Fishin' in Mass Effect 3! I've been having an absolute blast playing that with friends in multi-player. I tend to go back to that after a disappointing MMO release because of the great AI and fun gameplay. And I'm a damned good geth engineer.

[lilPricea]

Saturday evening, all servers on medium or high. Used to be full all the time before a recent certain patch.

It will only get worse from now on as the shiny colors will wear off at FotM and the reality will slap people in the face.

[Thunderhead]

Fractals of the mists comes to mind. Add the new releases of this period, along with finals, holidays, and the momentum of game launch being all but dead and it's no wonder many players are missing from your guild roster.

My first guild, created with much love in the prelaunch (80 members), now counts only 3 active members. Where did everybody go you may ask... Some left because it was just not the type of game they wanted, some left because of real life. That's natural. But most left because after hitting 80 they did not consider the time investment for the legendary hunt a worthwile idea and in their eyes there was nothing else to do. The big bad was dead, time to move on. Can't blame them, it's not like they stuck around and moaned all the time, they just voted with their pressence (or lack thereoff)

So there is your answer, if you want to go further in the reasons most leave this game, visit the official forum and remember to pack a helmet

[ak47_training]

I left because November 15 patch showed that ANet has no understanding whatsoever of how my class (Elementalist) really worked before that patch. That, or their lefthand (class balancers) does not know what their righthand (bugfixers) is doing. Both possibilities equally suck.

(I am referring to Evasive Arcana murder, FYI.)

[Draehl]

I havent been playing because of the professions still aren't right- and not the balance between professions, but the mechanics and functionality of any given profession feels unfinished and dry. Skills are simplistic and don't offer much in the way of interesting mechancis like abilities in other MMOs do. The most complete profession feels like the Guardian and even it has several weapon and utility skills that are just boring.

[Arkantos]

People realized this isn't the "amazing genre changing innovative best game ever (add whatever else was said pre-release)" that everyone and their mother hyped it up to be, so lot's of players felt let down. Personally the game got insanely stale for me when I hit 80, the PvP support (or lack thereof, although it's gotten slightly better) bothered me, and WvW was just....meh. I wanted to try and like the classes and skill bars, but in the end I just couldn't bear it. I didn't even have any desire to participate in the weekend event. I had my fun leveling from 1-80 and playing tournaments for a bit, but I'd just rather invest my time in other games. It's unfortunate because I've been extremely excited since 2007, but oh well, that's life.

[silencium]

I'm a casual gamer and i do think this game have a lot to offer. I do like all the content. I do like the events. etc.... you can also quit when you like too. And after half a year you can come back and it will cost you no cent. Thats why i think the population of this game will go up and down. Depending on new updates but also depending on other games who are coming on the market. I think it also depends a lot of how fast you go in the game. I'm casual and i have one lvl 80 who still need to do some story mode dungeons, is halfway the story or so, has 50% mapcompletion, only one exotic... so a lot to do. In the mean time i'm lvling an other character and i still have a lot of fun with it...... i do still have a lot to discover and i start to like spvp more and more even some WvW from time to time to teak a break from questing and DE's. Also a lot of my friends feeling the same way.... but we are mostly a little older, have kids and not that much time anymore to play day in, day out..... meaning the moment we discovered everything the game have to offer an expansion will come out and we can all start over again :-) I think a lot off people have more time and will get faster thrue the game, those people will need a break or will get bored after a while and will come back with a next expansion or major update.....

[StormDragonZ]

There's three possible answers to this:

a) Which server are you in? It's possible you're just in a server than suddenly dropped in number because people also realized the number of people in the server dropped in number.

II) Is everyone in the same location? When new stuff comes out, most people flock to that specific spot and pitch up tents to do whatever is available.

3) What time is it? It's possible some people have things that come up and can only come on at a specific time now. I mean, you're not on 24/7, are you?

Make your choice.

Edited by StormDragonZ, 24 November 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[Raytla]

I still play gw2 i have an option whether or not I should get ascended gear I've gotten to Dlv. 2 fom.  The stats that these new items offer isn't really worth it because I personally think that it's not much of a dramatic difference compared to exotics. And we're talking about earrings and a backpack?  If it were a traditional would you not think ANet would give armor plus trinkets right off the bat with the update like other traditional games.  

I personally think these new items are for people who specifically enjoy this kind of grind.  As long as agony doesn't exist outside fom then i don't have the incentive to grind for those trinkets.  I don't recall being affected negatively in terms of game play since ascended came out.

[Bloodtau]

The game has died. They broke their manifesto, broke the "when it's ready" mantra and delivered a sub-par product. The only people that are left are playing because it has no sub. If it had one the game would be closing servers in a few months...

[Geralt Romalion]

I am not sure what to think at this point.
But I do see player numbers decreasing on my server.
I play on EU Far Shiverpeaks, one of the more popular EU servers afaik.
Its almost empty.
The only place where people gather is Lions Arch for fractals, and even there it is almost impossible to PUG anything because everyone is at a different level then you.
Forget any other dungeon, since there isn't anyone there.
I usually refrain from ranting and just play the game, but I cannot deny the fact that Anet has made some pretty big mistakes, or at least decisions that have gone completely wrong.

Thus all I can conclude is that the game is indeed dying, at least on my server it appears to be.

[SerDrak]

I see a lot of people saying things like, "I've moved on, the game's dead to me." But you still visit GW2Guru?...

I still log on every day. While it isn't everything ArenaNet promised, it's still my go-to MMO right now and will remain to be for at least a few years.

[Xodiak]

SerDrak, on 24 November 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

I see a lot of people saying things like, "I've moved on, the game's dead to me." But you still visit GW2Guru?...

It sure is amusing to see how many people "quit" a game that has no monthly fee *boggle*, only to spend their time complaining on an unofficial forum about a game they claim they no longer care to play.
I stopped going to church when I was a teenager, but you don't see me sitting there every Sunday complaining about how I don't believe in their fairy tale..I left, and that was it.

[Athletic]

Geralt Romalion, on 24 November 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

I am not sure what to think at this point.
But I do see player numbers decreasing on my server.
I play on EU Far Shiverpeaks, one of the more popular EU servers afaik.

That has more to do with WvW. What Far shiverspeaks has lost (ex full server --> high) Blacktide has gained (ex high server --> full).

[Murderer]

This has nothing to do with the persons guild. The population has decreased a ton, tier 2 WvW went from a 2 hour wait to a 2 minute wait on prime time. Orr used to be farmed 24/7, now you cannot even kill the Brood Mother on off hours. A lot of people are probably in the FotM... if this is the case than that dungeon ruined the GW2 community even more. Also I am not on a low pop server, in the tier 2 bracket.

[Athletic]

Murderer, on 25 November 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

This has nothing to do with the persons guild. The population has decreased a ton, tier 2 WvW went from a 2 hour wait to a 2 minute wait on prime time. Orr used to be farmed 24/7, now you cannot even kill the Brood Mother on off hours. A lot of people are probably in the FotM... if this is the case than that dungeon ruined the GW2 community even more. Also I am not on a low pop server, in the tier 2 bracket.

If you're on desolation that also has to do with RUIN and other people going to blacktide. If you're on Seafarer's then that could be true, but that server went from medium to high so it has always been like that. If you're on Elona, well then idk.

[2124334211212]

del del del del

Edited by 2124334211212, 25 November 2012 - 01:04 AM.

[NotKMoose]

thanksgiving

[Omedon]

Some thoughts brought on by this thread, not really aimed at anyone in particular:

I am absolutely in love with the idea that I don't "have to" play this game, but can play when I want.  That approach has led to myself and many of my guildies really only logging in for RP funsies throughout the week, the odd "I feel like GW2 now" moment, or our Sunday guild nights.

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times, anyone coming to GW2 expecting ArenaNet to maintain the subscription game mindset of "keep the world hoppin at all costs" will be disappointed in GW2, because it's not that game.  You buy it once, it engages you with a certain style, you play that style when you feel like it, and when you don't feel like it, (as is inevitable with any game not dragging you across a treadmill or "obligating you" through a sub fee to keep you in the game) you don't play it.

GW2 cannot be killed by low concurrent population, so it won't even try to fight low concurrent population.  If you need "the community at large" to enable your content of choice (so... dungeons and WvW, maybe, that's it) then utilize external communities (such as this one), make friends, and play with them.  This idea that MMOs must, again, at all costs, maintain a buffet of strangers on hand just to validate the singular player's investment dies its proper death when you take out the subscription and replace it with a one time box purchase, with the occasional shot in the arm of events like lost shores or Halloween.

There is a market for people that will organize gametime with a small group of friends only, or solo to their heart's content.  It's a HUGE demographic for this game.  If you're playing this game expecting the world to be hoppin' just to enable your fun, you might want to consider another game.

I certainly don't feel pressured to log on and entertain you... you're not paying me.

Edited by Omedon, 25 November 2012 - 01:28 AM.

[jubjub1277]

Yea i've actually been thinking of just leaving the guild and handing the leadership to the second in command. I just dont feel like playing the game anymore. I've been trying to get the members to play other games together and thats been working out.

[blindude]

Tumaras, on 24 November 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

The folks that are blaming the low activity on the Thanksgiving holiday, semester timing, solar flares, Mayan calendar, etc. are grasping at straws and are probably going to be disappointed.  I wouldn't expect a huge return of people all of the sudden next week after the holiday (or ever ftm).  The reasons many people left GW2 have been said here and on the official forums so many times that I won't beat a dead horse and repeat them here.  I also think that more people left because of the poor direction Anet took the game, than left for some other new shiny game that came out.  Although there is always some attrition to other games, it wouldn't have caused the game to drop like a rock like it did.

At the core, the game could be really truly great.  But it's a short window that ArenaNet has to fix the problems and undo the damage to the image of the game in the eyes of the player base that has been done.

although you make it sound too dramatic and the game is still a gem compared to the competition..
They have all the time in the world(that is until teso release).Most people will not remove it from hard drive and as well as anything free you never pass chance to experience its offerings the moment you hear that something new is there.

ak47_training, on 24 November 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

I left because November 15 patch showed that ANet has no understanding whatsoever of how my class (Elementalist) really worked before that patch. That, or their lefthand (class balancers) does not know what their righthand (bugfixers) is doing. Both possibilities equally suck.

(I am referring to Evasive Arcana murder, FYI.)

haha come back theres always a way out
until anet finds and nerfs it too

[Afyael]

I haven't played for weeks, I keep coming back hoping Anet will make positive changes but it is always for the worst.

The truth is imo that they took out the best parts of GW1 when they made GW2, it just doesn't have the same magic. They took out completely customizable skillbars, locking them to weapons. There is no build diversity, usually there is one weapon better than the others so people use that. There are not enough skills in the game and the skills have too high a recharge forcing people to wait. In Guild Wars one you were ALWAYS using your skills, your elite was actually useful and integral to your build, not a rubbish summon that you can use every 2 minutes... Also signet of capture? Amazing idea... way better than buying your skills from your inventory... doesn't make sense. Even if you buy them from trainers rather than capturing them from enemies Anet could have hidden the trainers in hard to find locations to make exploring more worthwhile, make it seem like you're learning hidden knowledge. People used to go to out of the way towns to learn hard to find skills.

Story missions, why have so many branches? Although some people may like the personal story I preferred playing with people, why not divide players up into race and then order when it came to doing the missions? There could be henchmen for that and it would suit the story better in that you would be growing up in your hometown doing those missions and then joining an order to work together with  heroes of other races. That is just my personal opinion, instead of having everyone doing their own instance you would have groups of 5-8.

PvP modes, the great thing about Guild Wars 1 was all the different PvP modes that you can participate in, this game just feels so watered down with the same PvP mode and the same professions/builds dominating. HA alone with 7 different maps and 3 to 4 different gametypes blows sPvP out of the water. I do really like world versus world so thats definitely something that they did better in GW2.

It may have been difficult in this game but 2nd professions was another amazing idea that got thrown away. Imagine being able to pick a secondary class and use some of the skills, Anet could even make it really lengthy and difficult to change your secondary class giving you something to aim for after 30 rather than just the grind to 80 for no reason other than trait points.

Not all of these ideas would have fit in but the fact remains that Anet threw away all these great ideas that Guild Wars veterans loved and didn't adequately replace them turning GW2 into a generic themepark MMO that failed to attain its true potential. I believe Anet can still salvage a decent game if they make the right changes but this game could have just been so much better...

Edit: Anet has also gotten lazy with the skill changes, the game wasn't balanced in GW1 either but at least they shook things up and created new meta's every update. The last update was so hyped up and failed on so many levels, they barely changed anything for rangers and engineers(except for greatswords and grenades) and they stomped on elementalists completely. The only reasonably impactful change was nerfing mesmers slightly, they didn't even touch backstab or retaliation.

Edited by Afyael, 25 November 2012 - 02:40 AM.

[FiachSidhe]

GW2's limited content, and arrogant and clueless developers, inspired me to further explore my many, many options for gaming. My close friends who all bought the game, have no desire to continue playing this game as it is now.

Edited by FiachSidhe, 25 November 2012 - 02:43 AM.

[Dasryn]

i havent played in three days.

but its because of the holidays and me having family over and we've been having a good time.

but honestly, i find lots of playability left in GW2.  i think its all how you want to play the game is how much satisfaction you get out of it.  my wife and i are playing very casually and we have no real goal other than just going through the personal story and each area and completeing all the hearts available and vistas and skill point challenges in each area.

its the direction you want to approach GW2 in that determines what you get out of it.

a lot of people are unhappy however and i understand that you need more.  the gameplay, grpahics and overall presentation of GW2 is so great and amazing that you dont really want to go back to WoW, even though WoW has the content and progression you want in a game.

so it makes you upset, here is a game that has it all, everything you wanted from it, yet, its just missing that one feeling/ sense of progression that would make it absolutely great.

i fear that this may never come about though.  this game does not charge a subscription fee.  can it deliver subscription fee game content without having to charge a subscription fee?  is that really an obstacle?

my thing is, you guys want the content offered in games that generally charge a subscription fee.  how can you expect that from a game that does not charge a sub fee?

im not trying to troll or fanboi on you all but i really want to know, it does NOT seem like you guys are taking that into consideration.

[Wordsworth]

I used to watch Battlestar Galactica while waiting hours for a Fractals X group, but now I don't bother with the LFG, takes too long. Now I just watch BSG.

Rickter, on 25 November 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

my thing is, you guys want the content offered in games that generally charge a subscription fee.  how can you expect that from a game that does not charge a sub fee?

Two things; the gear treadmill is present in subscription games, and we got that. And also, I want the content ANet was releasing with GW1.

Edited by Wordsworth, 25 November 2012 - 03:12 AM.