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Where has everyone gone?


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#331 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:28 PM

View PostJuanele, on 04 December 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Almost every mmorpg is a theme park. To be honest it is pretty irrelevant to the discussion.

Well, when I think about MMO, i generally expect long term commitment.
When playing Mass Effect, I don't expect fun, I expect great story...

#332 Skolops

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:54 PM

View PostThanatos, on 04 December 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

Personally I felt nothing for the whole idea of Halloween. I'm fine with the holiday in itself, it's fun for the people who can enjoy it. No problems there, I just put the game on hold for a week. Shortly after that they introduced the highly controversial ascended update which made me doubt. In the end I didn't play for a month in total.

I decided to come back and concluded that I still highly enjoy the core premiss of the game, namely having fun with guildmates/friends online in a beautifully crafted game. Sure it has it's downsides but let's not pretend the entire game has lost itself solely based on this one (worrying) development. Give Anet a chance to once again prove themselves as being responsive to their community and I'm sure they make right and we'll see player numbers stabilise to past numbers or reasonable/expected population.

Since were talking about roles I guess I'll chip in. I get people that miss having a more clearly defined role to play in order to help themselves and others. IMHO Anet has softened role boundaries, they haven't made them obsolete. If you choose to do so, you can help out on many levels and in many ways. For example my main is a warrior, I like to switch to a more supportive weapon set and jewellery setup if the situation presents itself. Let's say in massive events or dungeons. I mostly watch players health and try to maintain helpful buffs by shouts or banners. There's nothing stopping you from doing anything other than what you want to do. Keep in mind that I don't have experience with all the professions, certain professions can be more helpful in different situations.

I haven't noticed a drop in the number in players that directly affects the game or forces me to adapt to an altered reality. I do believe however that there may have occurred a small drop in player numbers. In any case it's obvious that players have moved on and the initial rush of low level players in low level areas has died down and people have spread out on areas and servers.

It has been asked before but would you rather have waited even longer for them to perfect the game more?

The problem is that the degree to which people can fulfill roles is so limited that it's really the same as if there were no roles at all.

I've used this example many times before, and I will again because I think it's a good one.  In SWtOR, the Sentinel/Marauder class is the warrior MMO archetype.  It's pure melee damage. It does, however, have one ability which can be triggered every once in a while which gives a team-wide heal over time.  It's a throwaway heal, really.  It certainly adds up with any other healing going on by healers, but it's really not worth much on it's own and is really an afterthought to other effects of that ability.  

Now in GW2, the most heal oriented guardian or elementalist I've ever heard of really only is able to put out a regeneration about as strong as what that SWtOR class can do - maybe a tad bit stronger, and it can be done on a more continuous basis rather than being accessible only occasionally.  Nevertheless, it's still a heal which is about on par with what an afterthought throwaway ability a pure DPS  class in a "trinity" MMO has.  

That is just not something that will ever satisfy someone who likes to feel like he has a role to fill and a job to do.  What those kinds of players are left with (and there are an enormous number of them) is being another DPS+ player amongst a group or zerg full of DPS+ players.

#333 Cronos988

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:11 PM

View PostSkolops, on 04 December 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

That is just not something that will ever satisfy someone who likes to feel like he has a role to fill and a job to do.  What those kinds of players are left with (and there are an enormous number of them) is being another DPS+ player amongst a group or zerg full of DPS+ players.

Who says it needs to satisfy those players? The design principle here is pretty clear: Allow everyone, everytime, to instantly participate. That is something no other MMO has done before. Of course it also has it caveats. But if we complain about fundamentals like that, we are actually demanding a different game.

Quote

GW2 really brought me back into MMOs, but in a bad way for the game itself.  It just made me crave other MMOs I have already played from the past like WoW.  It didn't make me stick with GW2 and want to stay with the game at all.  The game feels one and done style, meaning you play it til you "finish" a goal which just isn't the way to do an MMO.  Other MMOs you play and never "finish" because their is way too much to do.

I am afraid Dusk Wolf would call you a lot of bad names for your desire to constantly progress.
Anyways, same as above: Guild Wars 2 was designed specifically to cap off progression at a point that even casual players can reach. If you are neither a casual player nor a proponent of strict horizontal balance, this simply isn't the game for you. That is sad, but blaming Guild Wars 2 for actually sticking to the principles that make it different isn't honest.

#334 Gilles VI

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:18 PM

View PostMazingerZ, on 04 December 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

And the Ford Pinto used to explode.

So if a fledgling manufacturer makes an exploding car, should they get a free pass because Ford did it once?

X-Box has the red ring of death.

Should another manufacturer not take flak when his product has a high failure rate?

The point of an evolving industry is that old problems are solved.  You learn how to mitigate flaws in your product because the processes evolve.

It's called a development cycle.  It is called regression testing.

In the last patch alone, they broke as many things as they fixed.

They broke jumping.  A core, fundamental part of their game play.

Bandits do Launch with zero cooldown, all the time now.

They broke their baby, FOTM, with the Cliffside fractal.

Mesmer phantasm AI (what can be laughingly called AI) is broken now too.

View PostAsudementio, on 04 December 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

The point wasn't that Anet should get a pass, but rather that they should be crucified or held as eternally inept because of a common issue among games in the genre.

Exactly what this person said.

#335 The Great Al

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:23 PM

View Postfatrodmc, on 04 December 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

Spot on I think. Everyone should be incentivised to explore different zones. Z-coins and daily quests did that quite nicely in GW1.

Also I think the title grinding of GW1 was much more preferable to ascended/legendary. Even though it is arguably still grinding, it had nothing to do with max stats. And there was so many titles you could just go for a few if you wanted.

Z-Coins, Daily Quests, and title grinding did not get released in GW1 until YEARS after release (maybe there were a few titles, but nothing close to how it is currently). GW2 is, by all accounts, still a brand new game. I'm almost certain that these things will be added eventually.

#336 Gilles VI

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:24 PM

View PostMazingerZ, on 04 December 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

ArenaNet's supposedly an old hand in the industry, but they've shown zero improvement in how well their builds work.  They've shown little in the way of proactively fixing their release process to mitigate a game-breaking issue like Jump not working.

Difference is the WoW team almost has a decade of experience with their engine, the improvement in graphics is a objective fact of that.
As people learn to work with their engine they improve it and know how to handle it better.

It's not because Anet knows what they shouldn't do that it won't happen by accident.
Ofcourse I'm angry about all the stuck Hearts/DE's, the bugged ghost DE in Iron Marches stopped my world completion for awhile untill I found to unbug it with Line of Warding, but I understand quests in these form have never been done before, so they have no precedent to work on..

#337 Skolops

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:36 PM

View PostCronos988, on 04 December 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

Who says it needs to satisfy those players? The design principle here is pretty clear: Allow everyone, everytime, to instantly participate. That is something no other MMO has done before. Of course it also has it caveats. But if we complain about fundamentals like that, we are actually demanding a different game.

First, it's worth noting that I never claimed GW2 needed to satisfy those players.  I was simply responding to someone who suggested that it could.

That being said, I do think a game of this genre needs to satisfy those players - at least if it wants to be successful.  The reason for this is simple: "those players" makes up an enormous proportion of the people who play MMOs.  What's left over after you take them away may not be enough to sustain an MMO - at least not beyond the population of STO or a game like that.  Now I don't intend to assert definitively that it wouldn't be enough - I don't know and I can't imagine anyone else can really know for certain, either.  I do think, however, that it's a legitimate concern.  

In fact, we already know that this is already having a negative impact on the game.  In every topic in every place I've seen people ask why their server population seems to be down, inevitably you see a very healthy number of people respond that they themselves stopped playing and/or know others who did because of this.  Even in the first few weeks of the game when it looked like it was doing very well indeed, one of the first complaints to start surfacing was that the "roleless" design seemed a lot less fun then they had anticipated.  Virtually every criticism of dungeons, dynamic events, and PvE in general has been that it requires little strategy and is more a zerg than anything - something which is linked inextricably to the more horizontal format of roles.  

In fact, you even mention something which serves as further evidence (of a similar problem) when you say:


Quote

I am afraid Dusk Wolf would call you a lot of bad names for your desire to constantly progress.
Anyways, same as above: Guild Wars 2 was designed specifically to cap off progression at a point that even casual players can reach. If you are neither a casual player nor a proponent of strict horizontal balance, this simply isn't the game for you. That is sad, but blaming Guild Wars 2 for actually sticking to the principles that make it different isn't honest.

Many - many - have come to believe that the entire ascended gear fiasco is evidence that ArenaNet is in fact not sticking to its principles because they see a lot of people becoming disinterested without a progression to shoot for and playing less.  Heck, one of the developers even said that one reason for ascended gear was that they were finding many players with nothing more to do after having gotten exotics and/or a legendary.

#338 Zero_Soulreaver

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:36 PM

View PostMazingerZ, on 04 December 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

The sinister part is the 10 bucks for an digestion-soothing medication that they're also offering.  It won't necessarily cure the problem, but it'll ameliorate it.

Anet in a nutshell:  Posted Image

I wish more people saw this side of them beforehand.

The bad part is so many people are disappointed by Anet that it doesn't even matter what they do at this point.

#339 Asudementio

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:37 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 04 December 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Exactly what this person said.

my apologies i made a mistake in my post and just caught it it should read should NOT be crucified

#340 Zheo

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:39 PM

Reading some of the replies here makes me realize that a major issue here is the fact that  the 'grind' all comes down to choice. Players chose to title grind in GW1. They feel forced to grind ascended gear and dislike it, therefore they dont want to. If ascended gear kept the same stats but provided new skins, like what happened when greens were introduced in GW1, the QQing would be much lower.

#341 Gilles VI

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:41 PM

View PostAsudementio, on 04 December 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

my apologies i made a mistake in my post and just caught it it should read should NOT be crucified

I just noticed I read "not crucified" lol..

View PostZheo, on 04 December 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

Reading some of the replies here makes me realize that a major issue here is the fact that  the 'grind' all comes down to choice. Players chose to title grind in GW1. They feel forced to grind ascended gear and dislike it, therefore they dont want to. If ascended gear kept the same stats but provided new skins, like what happened when greens were introduced in GW1, the QQing would be much lower.

Yes that's the biggest problem for alot of people I think.
I kinda understand Anets' responses on the matter, but I also understand alot of people feel betrayed and fear for a real threadmill..

Although people also whine about the mystic forge items costing loads of materials, while those skins are purely cosmetic, and that is just bullshit in my eyes..

#342 glountz

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:51 PM

View PostZheo, on 04 December 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

Reading some of the replies here makes me realize that a major issue here is the fact that  the 'grind' all comes down to choice. Players chose to title grind in GW1. They feel forced to grind ascended gear and dislike it, therefore they dont want to. If ascended gear kept the same stats but provided new skins, like what happened when greens were introduced in GW1, the QQing would be much lower.

I agree.

The skill > time is far, far behind. It  stopped already with nightfall.
If only "rare" stats was the maximum stats, everything after (exotic or ascended) being only different skins, I would be a lot less critic against the game.

#343 Cronos988

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:01 PM

View PostSkolops, on 04 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

First, it's worth noting that I never claimed GW2 needed to satisfy those players.  I was simply responding to someone who suggested that it could.

That being said, I do think a game of this genre needs to satisfy those players - at least if it wants to be successful.  The reason for this is simple: "those players" makes up an enormous proportion of the people who play MMOs.  What's left over after you take them away may not be enough to sustain an MMO - at least not beyond the population of STO or a game like that.  Now I don't intend to assert definitively that it wouldn't be enough - I don't know and I can't imagine anyone else can really know for certain, either.  I do think, however, that it's a legitimate concern.  

In fact, we already know that this is already having a negative impact on the game.  In every topic in every place I've seen people ask why their server population seems to be down, inevitably you see a very healthy number of people respond that they themselves stopped playing and/or know others who did because of this.  Even in the first few weeks of the game when it looked like it was doing very well indeed, one of the first complaints to start surfacing was that the "roleless" design seemed a lot less fun then they had anticipated.  Virtually every criticism of dungeons, dynamic events, and PvE in general has been that it requires little strategy and is more a zerg than anything - something which is linked inextricably to the more horizontal format of roles.  

In fact, you even mention something which serves as further evidence (of a similar problem) when you say:

Many - many - have come to believe that the entire ascended gear fiasco is evidence that ArenaNet is in fact not sticking to its principles because they see a lot of people becoming disinterested without a progression to shoot for and playing less.  Heck, one of the developers even said that one reason for ascended gear was that they were finding many players with nothing more to do after having gotten exotics and/or a legendary.

First of all, thanks for a constructive and well thought-out post.

Phrased that way, you have a very valid point. If the player base for fast non-tactical gameplay in a MMO is not big enough, that decision certainly wasn't smart from a business perspective.

I just get confused by half the people blaming the game the game for not sticking to it's principles and the other half attacking those principles.

Maybe it is a bad decision to have a "roleless" System, but at least now that someone has actually tried it we know.

#344 MazingerZ

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:01 PM

View PostZero_Soulreaver, on 04 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

The bad part is so many people are disappointed by Anet that it doesn't even matter what they do at this point.

Not to mention that those of us withholding our money due to things just can't play the game without it.  For instance, I would like all my bag slots on my Mesmer.  But I refuse to give them money at this stage.  I'm frustrated with my lack of space.  I am also disgusted with the broken nature of the 12/3 patch.

So I'm done for the short-term.  I will not be logging in, I'm going to go pick up some games that came out after the GW2 launch.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#345 Kumori Tensei

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:16 PM

Yea I think I'm gonna be gone until Wintersday.

Jon Peters said this back in October about ranger.

Quote

Poof! Someone called and I am here. We made some ranger changes this patch, but had to go back on them because of risk factor. There are some bugs being fixed and quality of life improvements coming in the next patch, as well as some other significant ranger improvements. I would Literally tell you but I think it would be considered a bit of a spoiler so you will have to be patient.
While we work hard to keep updates going on all professions, not very build us going to contain fixes for everyone due to the nature of software development. One problem with rangers is the lack of build diversity created by a number of sub par utility skills. Many signets, a shout or two, and spirits are all a bit lackluster. That is the first place to expect improvements. Second is trying to improve the feel/ pacing on some weapons.
Ok I can’t type more with tiny phone finger keypad. See you in game!
Jon

I do not see anything happening to the ranger at all. Was supposed to be an update in November...was there ? No! This one...was there one? No again.

I am what you'd call a fanboy lol. But even I am sadly disappointed.

Edited by unraveled, 04 December 2012 - 07:47 PM.
Fixed teeny tiny writing


#346 MazingerZ

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:20 PM

View PostKumori Tensei, on 04 December 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Yea I think I'm gonna be gone until Wintersday.

Jon Peters said this back in October about ranger.

Quote

Poof! Someone called and I am here. We made some ranger changes this patch, but had to go back on them because of risk factor. There are some bugs being fixed and quality of life improvements coming in the next patch, as well as some other significant ranger improvements. I would Literally tell you but I think it would be considered a bit of a spoiler so you will have to be patient.
While we work hard to keep updates going on all professions, not very build us going to contain fixes for everyone due to the nature of software development. One problem with rangers is the lack of build diversity created by a number of sub par utility skills. Many signets, a shout or two, and spirits are all a bit lackluster. That is the first place to expect improvements. Second is trying to improve the feel/ pacing on some weapons.

Ok I can’t type more with tiny phone finger keypad. See you in game!

Jon


I do not see anything happening to the ranger at all. Was supposed to be an update in November...was there ? No! This one...was there one? No again.

I am what you'd call a fanboy lol. But even I am sadly disappointed.

I like how he doesn't admit that the pet AI blows.  I think that's the major complaint between rangers/necros/mesmers.  The AI programming is bad and they should feel bad.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#347 unraveled

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:11 PM

Right, now that I've tidied up several off-topic posts let's get this thread back on topic thank you :)

Edited by unraveled, 05 December 2012 - 10:00 AM.
Added clarification.

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#348 Edbert

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:03 PM

For those that say Anet/GW2 sucks because you keep crashing...

I have never once had GW2 crash, not a single time, and I routinely play on two different machines one of which is a lptop. To be sure there are bugs and glitches everywhere I look but not a single CTD. During the 3 hour event with the Karkas I heard several people say they were getting DC'ed, I'd blame your ISP or your firewall/router for that not the game or the servers. I seldom if ever dip below 35FPS and am usually 50+.

So if your PC is unstable (crashing), or underpowered (low frame rates), or you keep getting dico'ed (network issues between you and the server) one can hardly blame Anet for any of that. If their code or their servers were the cause of your problems the crashes, discos, and low frames would happen to everyone...and they do not...one cannot argue that point.

#349 Brando

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:20 PM

Eh, I figure this is a good time for me to play/lvl alts. Just buys time until they actually get some more end game.

#350 Arkantos

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:40 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 04 December 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

Difference is the WoW team almost has a decade of experience with their engine, the improvement in graphics is a objective fact of that.
As people learn to work with their engine they improve it and know how to handle it better.

It's not because Anet knows what they shouldn't do that it won't happen by accident.
Ofcourse I'm angry about all the stuck Hearts/DE's, the bugged ghost DE in Iron Marches stopped my world completion for awhile untill I found to unbug it with Line of Warding, but I understand quests in these form have never been done before, so they have no precedent to work on..

GW2 uses a modified version of the GW engine, which was developed by ANet. So yeah, it's fair to say they have their fair share of experience using it. Bugs are inevitable, yes, but the amount of bugs in GW2 along with the amount of things they break with each patch is rather inexcusable. These are game developing professionals, you can't give them the benefit of the doubt every single time.

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#351 Gilles VI

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:47 PM

View PostArkantos, on 04 December 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

GW2 uses a modified version of the GW engine, which was developed by ANet. So yeah, it's fair to say they have their fair share of experience using it. Bugs are inevitable, yes, but the amount of bugs in GW2 along with the amount of things they break with each patch is rather inexcusable. These are game developing professionals, you can't give them the benefit of the doubt every single time.

Heavely modified, it's quite easy to see howmuch it has changed, just compare graphics, dimensions, skills,...
And especially DE's, they are the first ones to truly use it as a standard for the game.
Rift and WAR had the same concept, but didn't use it very frquently, it was an extra, while in GW2 it's almost the foundation of PvE.
And as such I'm still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on those parts.

Culling issue in WvW same thing, they're the first ones to try battles on that scale in recent years.

I'm willing to give them a year (since launch) to bring the game to very good state.
If they're still going like now then, then I'll give up. But untill then, every good game needed its time to grow and devellop.

#352 Skolops

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:47 PM

View PostArkantos, on 04 December 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

GW2 uses a modified version of the GW engine, which was developed by ANet. So yeah, it's fair to say they have their fair share of experience using it. Bugs are inevitable, yes, but the amount of bugs in GW2 along with the amount of things they break with each patch is rather inexcusable. These are game developing professionals, you can't give them the benefit of the doubt every single time.

Read through this thread and you'll see that I'm no fanboy of this game - I don't even really play any more.  That being said, I think you need to take a step back and realize that bugs - even significant ones - with MMO patches are industry standard.  They just happen.  They happened/happen in WoW, they have and do in SWtOR, they have and do in any other game you can come up with as well as GW2.  Now people ready to leave all of those other games months ago and jump into GW2 as soon as it launched used to go around proclaiming that ANet was  somehow more on the ball and would be different, just as they hyped GW2 to be the greatest thing to hit video gaming since Inky Pinky Blinky and Clyde.  As a result, a lot of folks have jumped ship from this game who otherwise may not have once the reality invariably couldn't live up to the hype.

In the end, if your biggest problem with GW2 is the bugs with patches I'd suggest not getting so upset about it and enjoying the game.

#353 MazingerZ

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:59 PM

View PostSkolops, on 04 December 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

In the end, if your biggest problem with GW2 is the bugs with patches I'd suggest not getting so upset about it and enjoying the game.

The problem is that they clearly are not doing enough to curtail the issues though.  Look at the Jump bug.  That went live.  If it had been PTR'd, it would at least be known before it hit the live servers.  Even without knowing what their QA department is doing, anyone can tell you that the lack of a PTR is a huge hole in a regression testing scenario.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#354 Juanele

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:32 AM

A PTR might be good. On the other hand, I've seen games with public testing servers that end up hardly ever getting used and bugs like that end up live anyway.

#355 Snapalope

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:03 AM

Ok so imagine this, if their QA team can't be bothered to press space bar, I wonder what kind of testing actually goes into each patch.

#356 Mouse1981

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:09 AM

View PostEdbert, on 04 December 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I just wonder why (and you definitely do not need to answer) people who hate a game or say they've stopped playing feel a need to come to the forums and try to convince those who like the game and still play that they need to hate/quit. I mean if you've moved on then...well...move one for crying out loud. Oh I guess that is it...you want to CRY OUT LOUD.

Because why not? Because I paid for it and because I was disappointed in it, and I want to let people know that the game isn't worth the money?

When I'm about to buy a electronic/technical device, it's always best to read people's opinions about it on the forums. Their experience has usually steered me in a good direction, whether to buy something or not. Of course, every forum had positive and negative reviews, like this one, and it was up to me to make the final judgement.

Why do you mind though? It's not like I'm gossiping your family.

View PostAsudementio, on 04 December 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

Frankly i've gotten more than my money's worth out of GW2 and i will continue to. I've played quite a few games and GW2 is among the better of them. Do i want more out of it? yes. Will i get more out of it? i am sure i will. i'm not left in that position where i can only play if i think the game is worth 15 dollars that month so i can afford to be patient and let Anet do as they will.

Alright buddy, don't feel obligated to respond to my negative review of the game. You enjoy it - cool, I never said no one can possibly like it. It's not a contest.

View Postglountz, on 04 December 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

I agree.

The skill > time is far, far behind. It  stopped already with nightfall.
If only "rare" stats was the maximum stats, everything after (exotic or ascended) being only different skins, I would be a lot less critic against the game.

For me it wouldn't mean less critic. The game is boring and flawed in it's core, it's not about vertical progression or no vertical progression. I don't even really care what they do about it since I don't feel compelled to play the game at all.

By "flawed in it's core" and "boring" I mean that feeling I have when playing that I'm disconnected from the rest of the game-world - heck, the game feels more like a co-op single player game than a MMO. I mean the limited number of skills, no variety between class' game play, no uniqueness. I mean separate PvE, PvP and whatever WvWvW is. I mean the pure lack of fun, that crucial ingredient that is actually really difficult to pin-point and describe, just like trying to describe charisma or love - you can't really put a finger on it, but without them it's just no good.

So, grind or no grind would actually matter if I wanted to play the game IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Edited by unraveled, 05 December 2012 - 10:00 AM.
Fixed my post :)


#357 Darks Legacy

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:35 AM

Many people coming into gw2 are coming from different games that have had their problems of their owns.

Thus we have two things happening

1) The shiny new game phenomena
2) The expectations that this new game will exceed the problems of their other arsenal of games.

3 months in two things happen

A) 1 fades away like that feeling for that hotty you picked up at the bar a few days ago
B) Expectations weren't met therefore doomsayer posts on forums that say the game is dead, the game is broken, the game won't meet up to the WoW giant and a whole list of other things

So what do i think?

1) People who have come from other games realize that GW2 is already built on a community of core gw1 players which was a 7 year predecessor of gw2. Anet is not some new company on the block trying to make a buck, they have had enough time to work out the kinks of their company and deliver great quality stuff

2) Community is what makes the game alive. This game has tons of mini communities supporting the game and most posts, though many are valid, are also majorly underestimating the potential of these communities. Gw1 was about guilds, either your guild was a zerg guild, or you just didnt have communities in these guilds.

3) Gw was realeased at the start of a school semester. Exams and finals are rolling around now.

4) The game has been out for 3 months. This is by far one of the worst criterions to judge the success of a game. Just like many things in life, time decides alot and it is also important to know, many features are still in the works, and not "ideas in consideration" but the game is done sort.
___________

My gripes are with how making money is a little harder but other than that, this game has core features that makes this game more forgiving and more generous to those who aren't constricted on time. Not every person wants to make a video game a job or a second life. I'm in the pvp group waiting for some gvg mode to return and until then, i have a few more months to really determine this state of the game.

Edited by Darks Legacy, 05 December 2012 - 08:40 AM.


#358 Evans

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:54 AM

View PostDarks Legacy, on 05 December 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

-snip-

Valid points, and don't forget that because the game has no monthly fee, it's far easier to take a break from.
This was true in GW1 and is still so in GW2. Let's see how dead the game will be at Wintersday.

I can already bet you that instead of "Where did everybody go" we will see "Game goes slow", "Severs are overloaded", "Crashes everywhere".

That's the fate of a F2P game, people come and go.

Edited by Evans, 05 December 2012 - 08:54 AM.


#359 F1strael

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:03 AM

The only game I still play is Battlefield 3. I've come to the conclusion that i'm done with MMO's. It takes to much time and dedication to become 'one of the best'. A shooter is more friendly for a regular playstyle.

#360 Silicon Based

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:38 AM

This game is just a few months old and people are already bored with it??
Amazing, maybe it is just a sign of the time. People (I actually believe mostly youth/adolescents) demand instant satisfaction again and again and again, like their life is a commercial.
Something is interesting only because it is new, one flies trough the game as fast as possible and waits for something new to happen again, all very superficial, without going into much depth, completely thoughtless, like zombies running after the newest/fanciest instant fame possibilities.

I may be old school, but I still enjoy every bit of GW2, and I haven't reached level 80 yet, although I'm on my way with 5 characters leveling at a time. There are so many things to do, so many things to see that it'll take years before all aspects that the game has to offer are explored from my point of view. I have enjoyed GW1 for many years, and I anticipate that GW2 will be just as, or even more enjoyable for many years to come.

But I guess that all depends on what one expects from a computer game




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