586 replies to this topic

[Lucas Ashrock]

Yus me too, i still spend my time on it, until i get the 2nd ring i need and fractal weapons i want, then, who knows. Maybe farm a bit more until my main and all alts have their 20slot bag

[Kymeric]

Lucas Ashrock, on 05 December 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

So, it's proved yet. You agree or disagree ? rofl

Sorry.  My statement was kind of convoluted.  I'll be more clear.

When have they lied?

There are definitely things that developers said that later turned out not to be true.  But that isn't the definition of a lie.  They can say, "There won't be a death penalty!" and then later implement one, because at the time they said it they had every intention of not having one.

I'm not aware of any proven lies.  Can you point me to them?

[FiachSidhe]

DuskWolf, on 05 December 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

What do you consider oldschool? Everquest? That was released in '99, that's a relatively new game, to me.

I've been kicking around since that bizarre little detective game and that creepy edutational thing named Podd (which can explode) on the BBC Micro. My earliest true gaming memories were of home computers which preceded consoles. I suspect that I was playing Lords of Midnight before you were born. See, I know this because of your attitude. The real old school valued skill over time spent. That's how you know the old farts.

Even the 8-bit era valued skill. GW2 doesn't. GW2 values stats playing the game for you; It's only a few steps away from becoming ProgressQuest. I don't want a game which plays itself because I grind for stats. That's very much the new school attitude, your attitude. I want a game where my skill as a player actually matters. ME3's multiplayer on gold and platinum is rewarding in that regard because the AI is smart and the game doesn't jerk around.

If you're not smart and fast, you'll die. And this attitude is coming from someone who's dealing with three distinct disabilities. And I'm still apparently a better player than you and most of those who love vertical progression. I like a game challenging me, not my time. Do you understand this? Grand Theft Auto is a game that challenges me rather than my time. Games with horizontal progression, sidegrades, or similar systems offer challenge to me, not to my time. If I wanted a challenge to my time, then I'd go and play WoW.

The truth of the matter is is that GW2 currently only has value to those who enjoy their time challenged, this has put off players who value a challenge to their playing skill. This has put off players like me, people of the true old guard, and has appealed to youngsters like you, who're very much new guard. But the fact of the matter is is that you new guard types will end up with WoW anyway, or Everquest. One or the other. Since they both challenge time better than GW2 does. And the new guard tend to go for the game that challenges their time the most, because they have nothing better to do.

I really hate faux old guard types, because you're also faux awesome, and you love games that make you feel awesome when you're really not. All you're doing is putting in a lot of free time, but that doesn't make you awesome at all. It just means that you're wasting a lot of your time. Time that could be better spent.

What a load.
I grew up playing the Atari 2600 and Pong, then Commodore 64, then Sega Master System/NES, etc.

Those old games had little to do with skill. Atari was just the same sequence over and over, until your focus slipped. Commodore 64 was littered with antiquated, piss poor design. The NES era was almost nothing but shitty games trying to emulate the arcade experience, and those games' difficulty was based entirely around getting money from players as quickly as possible. It wasn't until the 16-bit era that gaming hit a golden age of balance and fun.

Those games were fun because its all we had! Eventually, people stopped going to arcades, and companies realized they can start making games fun for the sake of fun. Those games weren't difficult to make you feel like you accomplished something. They were hard because they wanted you to keep tossing your money in the machines and the home versions were built on the same mentality.

Why? Because old school games were made for short term enjoyment. A dalliance. I grew up playing the same shit you did, but I don't delude myself into thinking I was somehow a better gamer because I suffered through the only option we had. Can that crap about games being too easy. Hard games exist, mmorpgs are not the place for them.

And no, Everquest is not a new game to you, or anyone else. Video games have only existed for 40 years. Everquest was released twelve years ago. One quarter of the industry's total lifespan. You're not impressing anyone with your seniority. For the most part, games SUCKED back then. I played most of them.

I'm 35, and I'd never want to go back to the days of "Nintendo Hard".

Edited by FiachSidhe, 06 December 2012 - 01:16 AM.

[Zero_Soulreaver]

Geeze, you guys say your old school gamers but you speak in such general terms on the subject.  It all depends on the game and the design of the game, you can't say all old school games were a certain way because they weren't all the same way.  That's like saying Mario is the same as Ghosts and Goblins in terms of how hard it is and other gameplay elements.  Mario was way easier even back then.

"Nintendo hard" wasn't always broken hard, look at Megaman for example. Yes it's a challenge but you can practice and get good at it easily and it's not bad design that makes you learn.

Some games were fun because of what they were, it's not always "that's all we had" because if that's the case we wouldn't have played them at all. Their were so many other things to do back in the day, it's not like today where gaming is more mainstream.  Not every old school game is crap and not all were that great or well made. At the same time it's no body's fault if back then you only choose to play the garbage end of the barrel b/c their were many good NES games and old computer games.

Edited by Zero_Soulreaver, 06 December 2012 - 03:26 PM.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Yep, true. My 9y son can play ubergames with HIS monsterpc ( i wish i had 1% of a pc like this when i was his age, but meh didn't existed at all) , ps3 , wii, DS, PSP. He has at hand an huge variety of games, uber cool, superb graphic etc. Guess which game is his main love: DS simple games and on top megaman 8 bit  emulated.. I asked him WTF why, you have Ninja Gaider 3, beautiful games with a graphic like a movie, so many uber cool games, why this trash.
His answer? Hey this is not trash, this is the most FUNNY and CHALLENGING game ever. Fun, challenge. Both words are hard to reach, this game for sure doesn't have neither a spit of them. Not a game's fault. Per se would be so good. Just ruined by wrong hands.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 06 December 2012 - 04:58 PM.

[Zheo]

Lucas Ashrock, on 06 December 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Yep, true. My 9y son can play ubergames with HIS monsterpc ( i wish i had 1% of a pc like this when i was his age, but meh didn't existed at all) , ps3 , wii, DS, PSP. He has at hand an huge variety of games, uber cool, superb graphic etc. Guess which game is his main love: DS simple games and on top megaman 8 bit  emulated.. I asked him WTF why, you have Ninja Gaider 3, beautiful games with a graphic like a movie, so many uber cool games, why this trash.
His answer? Hey this is not trash, this is the most FUNNY and CHALLENGING game ever. Fun, challenge. Both words are hard to reach, this game for sure doesn't have neither a spit of them. Not a game's fault. Per se would be so good. Just ruined by wrong hands.

Lucas, I'm really perplexed. I've seen a number of your comments, in a number of threads, all of which flame the game, for the most part. If you dislike this game, as it doesn't have a 'spit' of either fun or challenge, why on earth are you playing it, and, by extension, on the forums for said game? You dislike the game and are disappointed. We get it. Do you feel the need to profess your opinion to anyone who would read it? Or do you feel validated by having others agree with you?

Don't take this personal, I'm just tiring of seeing the negative, man. You're entitled to your opinion, and you're absolutely entitled to spread it, but why spend your time spewing negative if that's really how you feel? Yes, I could choose not to read your posts, but I fail to see why there is such consistent negative prose.

[DarkGanni]

I currently play GW2 only when my best friend is on and even then I'm partially bored of the game. Otherwise I'm on some other different game. As a PvE'er there isn't much to do besides dungeons and boring grind. Hopefully something fresh comes out that will make the game more interesting.

Just my point of view

[Soulless]

at least some of you guys actually beat the game and reached lvl 80.. my main character hasn't even beaten the game nor will it ever reach lvl 80.. .. 3 alts and they're only lvl 15..  been 2 months since i've played.

[Own Age Myname]

I've barely visited this forum, and I've usually wasted 1 hour or 2 just reading stuff from the lore section or gaming section at minimum. I just have no desire anymore, my brother even quit and he was a bit more die hard then me. And I'm pretty die hard.

What really sucks is I logged back into GW1 and I was gonna go on a few FoW runs on my 100b warrior and the place is deserted

Edited by Own Age Myname, 06 December 2012 - 11:57 PM.

[Perm Shadow Form]

Yeah, logged back in GW1 too, the whole time I was thinking how much better it would be if they simply reskined it and added jump/roll,,,
Even SoS spirit spammer is more entertaining than Guardian GS DPS spam.

People say, it's a new game ... but ... it's really heart breaking seeing how they abandoned so much great features GW1 had... PvE and PvP... it's as if they wanted to make GW more WoW/ (Insert generic MMO name here) like.

Sad.

[BabyChooChoo]

I pretty much quit 2-3 weeks after launch along with the rest of my guild. Started playing again 2-3 days ago...by myself.

Now I remember why I stopped playing in the first place. I think there's the potential for a great game here that's just buried under what I feel are some baffling design decisions that completely kill any fun I was having.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, but the grind is just insane. I have no problem working for stuff in my games, but this all just feels...wrong. Some of my favorites games are games like Eve, Dark/Demon's Souls, Vindictus, shumps, a lot of jrpgs, fighting games, stuff like that. I am not opposed to challenge. In fact, I welcome it with open arms. The challenge in this game though feels like it has nothing to do with skill and everything to time. "Can you last long enough to do what you want to do?" and not "are you good enough to do what you want to do?"

And it all makes me so frustrated because I want to like this game, but it feels like it won't let me. It always feels as if if they had done this or that just a tiny bit different, it would silence a lot of complaints from a lot of people.

For instance, something as simple as the dye system - give me an honest answer, why are they character bound? Why? So they can sell you dye from the cash shop? So you prove how much free time you have by collecting every dye on everyone of your toons? Why? It doesn't make any sense.

Why is the only convenient method of travel often seen as more of a nuisance than anything else?

Why is anything worth getting hidden behind some sort of grind? Why does it feel like a grind in the first place? Why couldn't they think of something else?

If sPvP is so important, why do so many people feel it's so forgotten?

Why?

Why?

Why?

It's the basic question many of us ask far too often when we play when we shouldn't have to be thinking about it at all. Obviously, ANet is never going to be able to satisfy everyone, but I know they could be doing a better job than they are right now. The game is far from dead, but, in my opinion, it already feels like a shell of it's former self. Improvments have been made and props to Anet for that...but,man, c'mon...

[Zebes]

Xodiak, on 24 November 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

You swung and missed on my point.
The point I was making is that GW1 veterans saw a plateau, a leveling off of gear/rewards..no "grind" although there is a grind (dungeon tokens/mats for legendaries) .. however since GW1 players were invested fully into GW1.. the MMO landscape was really formed, and was built while GW1 players enjoyed their small section of the sandbox, oblivious to what was happening around them. Games of this size and mechanic were putting in systems where you kept striving for bigger and better, and you know what, that model worked, and it grabbed a LOT of players. In other non MMO games people kept going to for bigger and better.. in FPSs they came out with an unlock system for most games, hack and slash MMO's with gear progression, in every SPRPG you consistently gear up, tackle tougher content and get bigger and better rewards. There's an expectation from a HUGE gamer player base of going bigger/better and getting rewards for that.

In every car racing game, warfighter game, dang old World of Tanks.. it's all about bigger and better progression! This fashion show would work in Guild Wars 1, part 2, maybe not Guild Wars 2.

Were all of these genres with their reward systems/progression systems built during the GW1 time frame, no, they existed before, and having said that.. the growing amount of games with this type of gameplay points to how effective/sustainable/profitable this model is.

The question then is.. can GW2 sustain a steady base of players that are okay not playing in this model? Also, people need to remember how GW1 is not GW2...which many here seem not to be able to do.

The problem with your thinking is that it sets the past as the standard for the future. While the MMO rules were different from GW1's rules, the MMO populace has been creeping towards the GW1 mentality as of late. It is actually smarter at this point to be like GW1 rather than be like WoW/EQ.

[TGIFrisbie]

Some of these "replies" are so off in the weeds....

[RecentlyTaken]

People in my guild started quitting about 2 weeks ago as well. Combination of the introduction of ascended items (and how much farming and bullshit is required), as well as a dwindling PvP scene along with the introduction of new games (like planetside 2). Ascended gear and how it was implemented was a HUGE turnoff to alot of the PvE player-base.

In order to keep at least a "stable" base of players they badly need to 1.) promote sPvP. 2.) making sPvP more balanced 3.) make it easier to get into "competitive" sPvP (ie ranked solo-queue/team-queue matches, none of this tournament bullshit that takes forever to start)

[Asudementio]

I don't really understand the aversion to ascended gear. I understand the premise but that it could a large enough turnoff to a player to make them quit seems ridiculous.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Zheo, on 06 December 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

Lucas, I'm really perplexed. I've seen a number of your comments, in a number of threads, all of which flame the game, for the most part. If you dislike this game, as it doesn't have a 'spit' of either fun or challenge, why on earth are you playing it, and, by extension, on the forums for said game? You dislike the game and are disappointed. We get it. Do you feel the need to profess your opinion to anyone who would read it? Or do you feel validated by having others agree with you?

Don't take this personal, I'm just tiring of seeing the negative, man. You're entitled to your opinion, and you're absolutely entitled to spread it, but why spend your time spewing negative if that's really how you feel? Yes, I could choose not to read your posts, but I fail to see why there is such consistent negative prose.

Read my post again, and other posts i made you can read around. You will realize i love the game, and everything i got and still get. I hate the company, how the game is managed and ruined, over bugged patches throw online not even barely tested, etc etc I'm sorry if you misunderstood the core content of my posts, i'm full against arenanet, if a class action one day pop , i will be the first to sign and lead the burn of their offices
Always open to give legal hints to ruin them. I did a good one on their main forum, they shout my mouth asap banning me for a week, i guess scared i could spread it a bit more. The post is still there, not deleted.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 07 December 2012 - 05:19 AM.

[Mad Fherrit]

Personally, my enjoyment of the game has really taken a nose dive.  I transferred to another server that seemed like a good place to move to, map chat is friendly, and the under lvl 40 zones seemed active.  But once I moved out of that level range, it dropped off big time, I was lucky to see a single other person running the opposite way I was.  I managed to get into a couple of guilds that had impressive member lists, but few people online, most would log in for a couple of hours on the weekend.  I respect that and understand why some people play that way, but its too little for what I like to do.

then you factor in the rampant cc that pve mobs have and the invulnerability resets (especially underwater) and the game's play becomes aggravating far more than it is entertaining.  These are things that can be handled ok when there are at least a couple of you fighting side by side, but when you're largely forced to solo the maps these design features just piss me off to no end.  A example is when I ran into Dredge yesterday and 2 became 4 became 6 and they kept me plastered on my back the entire time, total robbing me of my character's control.  Yeah, that was "fun".  And the worst thing is, I didn't even have anyone around me to be able to let out a rueful laugh over it.

I don't have any clever solutions or analysis for why the game has fallen into this state, but I'm pretty sure that's not what the design goal was and them coming up with ways to further funnel people away from the maps into gated instances IMHO is not a wise thing to do if you're trying to stimulate game participation.

[Asudementio]

Mad Fherrit, on 07 December 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

Personally, my enjoyment of the game has really taken a nose dive.  I transferred to another server that seemed like a good place to move to, map chat is friendly, and the under lvl 40 zones seemed active.  But once I moved out of that level range, it dropped off big time, I was lucky to see a single other person running the opposite way I was.  I managed to get into a couple of guilds that had impressive member lists, but few people online, most would log in for a couple of hours on the weekend.  I respect that and understand why some people play that way, but its too little for what I like to do.

then you factor in the rampant cc that pve mobs have and the invulnerability resets (especially underwater) and the game's play becomes aggravating far more than it is entertaining.  These are things that can be handled ok when there are at least a couple of you fighting side by side, but when you're largely forced to solo the maps these design features just piss me off to no end.  A example is when I ran into Dredge yesterday and 2 became 4 became 6 and they kept me plastered on my back the entire time, total robbing me of my character's control.  Yeah, that was "fun".  And the worst thing is, I didn't even have anyone around me to be able to let out a rueful laugh over it.

I don't have any clever solutions or analysis for why the game has fallen into this state, but I'm pretty sure that's not what the design goal was and them coming up with ways to further funnel people away from the maps into gated instances IMHO is not a wise thing to do if you're trying to stimulate game participation.

I didn't give this much thought early game but this game could really benefit from a dungeon finder as the principle reason people sit around towns is to group up for dungeons. A dungeon finder would make it so players could go out into the world as they group up for fractals and the such. Problem is such a feature would only further this "ghost town" picture people are trying to paint.

[Soki]

They either went to games that aren't designed to extort as much money as possible from their players - or they're doing different pasttimes while waiting for ArenaNet to recognize the problem with the way the market and item-acquisition in their game is set up.

[Dasryn]

Soki, on 07 December 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

They either went to games that aren't designed to extort as much money as possible from their players - or they're doing different pasttimes while waiting for ArenaNet to recognize the problem with the way the market and item-acquisition in their game is set up.

extort as much money as possible from players?  what are you referring to?  i havent spent a dime on this game outside of the box cost and i know if i do its not because it was needed, its because i couldnt wait for something.

if they wanted to extort money from players, they'd have a more robust gem store imho.  like, other race's dance emotes, why is that not in the game? that's instant cash cow right there.

currently aside from gem to gold conversion, transmutation stones, bank slots, and make over kits - there is absolutely nothing that interests me in that gem store

[Var]

Soki, on 07 December 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

extort

I don't think you have a firm grasp of what that word means because you are using it very incorrectly in this situation. No one, certainly not the game, is blackmailing you into paying them. You cannot be "extorted" in an optional scenario, "extortion" happens when you have no choice in the matter.

[Dasryn]

Var, on 07 December 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

I don't think you have a firm grasp of what that word means because you are using it very incorrectly in this situation. No one, certainly not the game, is blackmailing you into paying them. You cannot be "extorted" in an optional scenario, "extortion" happens when you have no choice in the matter.

i think it was an exaggeration.  but then again, there are a lot of players that truly feel like there is no other choice than to spend money in the gem store.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Rickter, on 07 December 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

extort as much money as possible from players?  what are you referring to?  i havent spent a dime on this game outside of the box cost and i know if i do its not because it was needed, its because i couldnt wait for something.

if they wanted to extort money from players, they'd have a more robust gem store imho.  like, other race's dance emotes, why is that not in the game? that's instant cash cow right there.

currently aside from gem to gold conversion, transmutation stones, bank slots, and make over kits - there is absolutely nothing that interests me in that gem store

Considering we are "testers" of a game barely on his feet on beta status faked as fully potential and online, a complete fake of manifesto and geargrind, gemstore scams (halloween + consortium chest), you know, we all customers should have a complete refund of their account, the account free to download, and f2p, until the beta phase is out and the game is able to be playable, with devs begging us to stay. More or less of what FFonline did, and now they passed finally to Reborn and subs. Coming soon, 2013.
Shortly, what we bough and what the game is, is a fraud.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 07 December 2012 - 06:41 AM.

[Dasryn]

Lucas Ashrock, on 07 December 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

Considering we are "testers" of a game barely on his feet on beta status faked as fully potential and online, a complete fake of manifesto and geargrind, you know, we all customers should have a complete refund of their account, the account free to download, and f2p, until the beta phase is out and the game is able to be playable, with devs begging us to stay. More or less of what FFonline did, and now they passed finally to Reborn and subs. Coming soon, 2013.
Shortly, what we bough and what the game is, is a fraud.

if we are all testers of a game in beta, isnt it good to have no sub fee?  

but seriously, this game isnt in beta.  beta is a developmental term used to describe the playability of a product.  gw2 is very playable, it has some bugs, but then again, most if not all games of this magnitude do.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Rickter, on 07 December 2012 - 06:42 AM, said:

if we are all testers of a game in beta, isnt it good to have no sub fee?  

but seriously, this game isnt in beta.  beta is a developmental term used to describe the playability of a product.  gw2 is very playable, it has some bugs, but then again, most if not all games of this magnitude do.

Sure, but we bough the client, that's the fraud. Yes, the magnitude, dealing with unplayable/barely playable content, but ye, such a magnitude of game. I'll make you an example: did you know some servers never even saw arah because gates are STILL bugged?

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 07 December 2012 - 06:46 AM.

[Dasryn]

Lucas Ashrock, on 07 December 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

Sure, but we bough the client, that's the fraud. Yes, the magnitude, dealing with unplayable/barely playable content, but ye, such a magnitude of game. I'll make you an example: did you know some servers never even saw arah because gates are STILL bugged?

yes and that is very unfortunate.  but its a good thing ANet offers free server transfers every 7 days right?

[DuskWolf]

BabyChooChoo, on 07 December 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

The challenge in this game though feels like it has nothing to do with skill and everything to time. "Can you last long enough to do what you want to do?" and not "are you good enough to do what you want to do?"

Thanks. It's vindicating to see other people say this.

People like myself, raspberry jam, and others have been demonised, we've been the target of endless snarky fallacies, personal attacks, lowbrow insults, and acidic, poisonous vitriol just for saying what you've said, here. And it's the truth. We're as frustrated as you are. See, I've recently been playing Mass Effect 3's multiplayer. I love playing the various difficulties with a variety of people.

And it's fun. It's fun because the matches aren't about grinding. They're about teamwork and coordination against a pretty damned merciless AI (especially on platinum) that will tear you a new one unless you work together. If someone dies, it matters, you want to get them up because everyone matters in the effort, even if they're not the greatest player. And you want everyone to survive, they're part of your platoon. It feels great.

No one cares in GW2. When I was playing, I was the only one running around reviving people, because I remembered how important that was in ME3's multiplayer. So I was always getting people back on their feet. And this was back in the beta, it was back then I began to realise that something was off. And the more I played, the more it began to set in why no one bothers to help anyone else. Why it doesn't matter. Why nothing in GW2 matters.

It's all just a big zerg, a big grindy zerg. And how is that different than WoW? It isn't. Kill ten zorgs, bring me their spleens! And... how is that different to what you do for the asura in the Plains of Ashford? Sure, the overlaying systems might be slightly different, but the underlying mechanics are just the same. It's a good illusion, it fooled me for a week or two, then I just stopped playing. I tried to go back to play it with friends, but...

Once I'd seen through the illusion and I understood that I was playing WoW, that was it. Dodging doesn't matter because the combat is too slow, it's designed for it to not matter. You just keep zerging. Everyone just continues to zerg. Zerg 10 rats. Zerg 10 more. Zerg 10 more. Repeat ad nauseum. The sad truth is is that I've been playing Free Realms with a lady friend of late, and I've had way, way more fun with the variety in that game than I did with GW2.

I want MMOs to stop being WoW also-rans. I want this desperately. I want the WoW clone to go away. But despite a good illusion, GW2 is a WoW clone. It's a time-sink. It's something you do if you have a lot of time on your hands and you're very, very, very bored. And then you become addicted to the grindy, and then it's something you do to the detriment of everything else. Just like every other WoW clone.

So... why can't we have more MMOs that play like Mass Effect? Or more MMOs which have a huge amount of variety? Or both? The most fun I had in GW2 was with the jumping puzzles. But there are so few of those. If the game was 50% jumping puzzles as content, then it might have kept me around, but they're such an afterthought, and the movement system is slow and unresponsive, so they're not even as fun as they could be. And they recently broke jumping.

Where are you? That elusive MMO that isn't a WoW also-ran. That one that isn't just an endless time-based zerg fest. One that actually challenges my skill rather than my time.

Maybe one day we'll be able to have a discussion of how to make a proper MMO without it always having to be about the almost fetishistic wasting of time that's become so common.

[Asudementio]

Lucas Ashrock, on 07 December 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

Considering we are "testers" of a game barely on his feet on beta status faked as fully potential and online, a complete fake of manifesto and geargrind, gemstore scams (halloween + consortium chest), you know, we all customers should have a complete refund of their account, the account free to download, and f2p, until the beta phase is out and the game is able to be playable, with devs begging us to stay. More or less of what FFonline did, and now they passed finally to Reborn and subs. Coming soon, 2013.
Shortly, what we bough and what the game is, is a fraud.

You haven't played many MMOs have you? This game is hardly a fraud, but you should know developer promises are just pitches meant to draw attention and not actually retain players- or at least this has been my experience with the genre. Perhaps take future titles with a grain of salt.

[Asudementio]

DuskWolf, on 07 December 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

Thanks. It's vindicating to see other people say this.

People like myself, raspberry jam, and others have been demonised, we've been the target of endless snarky fallacies, personal attacks, lowbrow insults, and acidic, poisonous vitriol just for saying what you've said, here. And it's the truth. We're as frustrated as you are. See, I've recently been playing Mass Effect 3's multiplayer. I love playing the various difficulties with a variety of people.

And it's fun. It's fun because the matches aren't about grinding. They're about teamwork and coordination against a pretty damned merciless AI (especially on platinum) that will tear you a new one unless you work together. If someone dies, it matters, you want to get them up because everyone matters in the effort, even if they're not the greatest player. And you want everyone to survive, they're part of your platoon. It feels great.

No one cares in GW2. When I was playing, I was the only one running around reviving people, because I remembered how important that was in ME3's multiplayer. So I was always getting people back on their feet. And this was back in the beta, it was back then I began to realise that something was off. And the more I played, the more it began to set in why no one bothers to help anyone else. Why it doesn't matter. Why nothing in GW2 matters.

It's all just a big zerg, a big grindy zerg. And how is that different than WoW? It isn't. Kill ten zorgs, bring me their spleens! And... how is that different to what you do for the asura in the Plains of Ashford? Sure, the overlaying systems might be slightly different, but the underlying mechanics are just the same. It's a good illusion, it fooled me for a week or two, then I just stopped playing. I tried to go back to play it with friends, but...

Once I'd seen through the illusion and I understood that I was playing WoW, that was it. Dodging doesn't matter because the combat is too slow, it's designed for it to not matter. You just keep zerging. Everyone just continues to zerg. Zerg 10 rats. Zerg 10 more. Zerg 10 more. Repeat ad nauseum. The sad truth is is that I've been playing Free Realms with a lady friend of late, and I've had way, way more fun with the variety in that game than I did with GW2.

I want MMOs to stop being WoW also-rans. I want this desperately. I want the WoW clone to go away. But despite a good illusion, GW2 is a WoW clone. It's a time-sink. It's something you do if you have a lot of time on your hands and you're very, very, very bored. And then you become addicted to the grindy, and then it's something you do to the detriment of everything else. Just like every other WoW clone.

So... why can't we have more MMOs that play like Mass Effect? Or more MMOs which have a huge amount of variety? Or both? The most fun I had in GW2 was with the jumping puzzles. But there are so few of those. If the game was 50% jumping puzzles as content, then it might have kept me around, but they're such an afterthought, and the movement system is slow and unresponsive, so they're not even as fun as they could be. And they recently broke jumping.

Where are you? That elusive MMO that isn't a WoW also-ran. That one that isn't just an endless time-based zerg fest. One that actually challenges my skill rather than my time.

Maybe one day we'll be able to have a discussion of how to make a proper MMO without it always having to be about the almost fetishistic wasting of time that's become so common.

It's not that combat is too slow in GW2, it is remarkably fast paced compared to most of the standard MMO fare, it is that combat is really drawn out due to low damage and high health pools.

Also i disagree that GW2 is just another WoW clone. GW2 has traits that have become typical parts of MMOs due to WoW, but i don't say something like Fallout New Vegas and Call of Duty are the same because they have guns. Somethings are integral to the genre at the moment.

GW2 is too zergy at the moment, though i wouldn't say everything is a zerg. There are times when strategy is needed but the punishment for not adhering to strategies isn't severe enough to discourage zerg-mentality playing. I would like to see death penalties and dungeon wiping penalties intensified/added but it would only piss people off so that's never going to happen- to many carebears to have nice things.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Rickter, on 07 December 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

yes and that is very unfortunate.  but its a good thing ANet offers free server transfers every 7 days right?

Instead of send a paid dev, paid with a bough client, to go there and fix the problem? Uhm..

Asudementio, on 07 December 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

You haven't played many MMOs have you? This game is hardly a fraud, but you should know developer promises are just pitches meant to draw attention and not actually retain players- or at least this has been my experience with the genre. Perhaps take future titles with a grain of salt.

I play videogames from the day they was created, pong era. I skipped maybe a couple korean mmos pay to win ye.
FFfly was fun hehe, good memories of it, and bad ones of some hacker security issues (harmful ones)

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 07 December 2012 - 07:12 AM.