586 replies to this topic

[Soki]

Var, on 07 December 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

I don't think you have a firm grasp of what that word means because you are using it very incorrectly in this situation. No one, certainly not the game, is blackmailing you into paying them. You cannot be "extorted" in an optional scenario, "extortion" happens when you have no choice in the matter.

Perhaps it's not accurate to Webster's definition, but it's certainly how it feels to play GW2, and realize how much of a grind is required of you if you want to do anything other than get base exotics on your character, then quit.

Rickter, on 07 December 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

extort as much money as possible from players?  what are you referring to?  i havent spent a dime on this game outside of the box cost and i know if i do its not because it was needed, its because i couldnt wait for something.

if they wanted to extort money from players, they'd have a more robust gem store imho.  like, other race's dance emotes, why is that not in the game? that's instant cash cow right there.

currently aside from gem to gold conversion, transmutation stones, bank slots, and make over kits - there is absolutely nothing that interests me in that gem store

If you played the game for anything other than a simply casual experience, you would understand that the game is designed around the ability to convert gems to gold.
None of the unique equips are interesting. All of them are centered around a gold-grind to get them. Literally all of them can be achieved with gold, barring dungeon sets - which don't even make up half of the game's unique equipment pieces.

Before you kneejerk-respond, try thinking about it for a moment. Think about how the economy functions right now; how the BLTC is set up, and how you need to play in order to get a Legendary item in a decent period of time - and, also, how bland the road to getting a Legendary is.
Also think about what else there is to do aside from go for those vanity pieces to get. What kind of challenge does the game offer? What kind of tests of skill are there in the game that ever -actually- challenged you? What sort of prestige is there to legendaries, other than how hard you couldgrind at something, or how much RL-Money you could blow on gold-conversion?

If you can stop and think about all of that, but still come to the conclusion that GW2's systems weren't designed entirely around the ability for players to convert Gems to Gold - it's an intellectual failure on your part.

Edited by Soki, 07 December 2012 - 07:40 AM.

[DuskWolf]

Zheo, on 06 December 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

[...] but I fail to see why there is such consistent negative prose.

It's because some of us are tired of the time > skill MMO trend and we're really gearing up with our desire to see something which is targeted at us. Which hits our underserved demographic. A demographic that would appreciate a game that doesn't have a predatory business model that rivals that of the average phone app store economy, one that would really enjoy a game that could challenge their skills wihtout eating up vast amounts of their time, one that focused on providing a large variety of playstyles and things to do.

It would be foolish to think that upcoming MMO developers aren't reading communities like this to see how recent big names like TOR and GW@ are doing. And to find out why they've failed. So our demographic hangs around to say why we're not playing. Sure, a walled garden would make you happy, and would allow you to be complacent... but that doesn't help the rest of us at all. We're just voicinng our feelings. So that those who're on the dev teams for upcoming games, who're idly poking forums liket his, can see what we think and feel abouut the matter.

Sure, there could be a unified positive outlook for GW2 if you silenced every naysayer. But that would just be a lie.

[Asudementio]

DuskWolf, on 07 December 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

It's because some of us are tired of the time > skill MMO trend and we're really gearing up with our desire to see something which is targeted at us. Which hits our underserved demographic. A demographic that would appreciate a game that doesn't have a predatory business model that rivals that of the average phone app store economy, one that would really enjoy a game that could challenge their skills wihtout eating up vast amounts of their time, one that focused on providing a large variety of playstyles and things to do.

It would be foolish to think that upcoming MMO developers aren't reading communities like this to see how recent big names like TOR and GW@ are doing. And to find out why they've failed. So our demographic hangs around to say why we're not playing. Sure, a walled garden would make you happy, and would allow you to be complacent... but that doesn't help the rest of us at all. We're just voicinng our feelings. So that those who're on the dev teams for upcoming games, who're idly poking forums liket his, can see what we think and feel abouut the matter.

Sure, there could be a unified positive outlook for GW2 if you silenced every naysayer. But that would just be a lie.

Why pick at GW2 though, if you are unrepresented why not bicker with and argue with players of some other game? I don't really care if you lambaste GW2 or if you praise it, i'm just interested in the reason you choose this game.

[Dasryn]

Soki, on 07 December 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

Perhaps it's not accurate to Webster's definition, but it's certainly how it feels to play GW2, and realize how much of a grind is required of you if you want to do anything other than get base exotics on your character, then quit.



If you played the game for anything other than a simply casual experience, you would understand that the game is designed around the ability to convert gems to gold.
None of the unique equips are interesting. All of them are centered around a gold-grind to get them. Literally all of them can be achieved with gold, barring dungeon sets - which don't even make up half of the game's unique equipment pieces.

Before you kneejerk-respond, try thinking about it for a moment. Think about how the economy functions right now; how the BLTC is set up, and how you need to play in order to get a Legendary item in a decent period of time - and, also, how bland the road to getting a Legendary is.
Also think about what else there is to do aside from go for those vanity pieces to get. What kind of challenge does the game offer? What kind of tests of skill are there in the game that ever -actually- challenged you? What sort of prestige is there to legendaries, other than how hard you couldgrind at something, or how much RL-Money you could blow on gold-conversion?

If you can stop and think about all of that, but still come to the conclusion that GW2's systems weren't designed entirely around the ability for players to convert Gems to Gold - it's an intellectual failure on your part.

no need to get defensive, the only person's opinion i dont really respect on Guru is Duskwolf's. . . . i understand where you are coming from and i can understand your frustration.  but the counter argument is that those things arent needed.  you speak of unique skins and legendaries.  its not needed to enjoy or play the game.

i kinda felt like "extort" was an exaggeration on your part, but i understand you are a bit disheartened by the current system and subsequently upset about it.

Asudementio, on 07 December 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

Why pick at GW2 though, if you are unrepresented why not bicker with and argue with players of some other game? I don't really care if you lambaste GW2 or if you praise it, i'm just interested in the reason you choose this game.

Duskwolf has already quit GW2.  he doesnt even play anymore, he admitted it.  he just cant quit the forums.  i dont think its healthy.  dont feed him.

[Soki]

Rickter, on 07 December 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

no need to get defensive, the only person's opinion i dont really respect on Guru is Duskwolf's. . . . i understand where you are coming from and i can understand your frustration.  but the counter argument is that those things arent needed.  you speak of unique skins and legendaries.  its not needed to enjoy or play the game.

i kinda felt like "extort" was an exaggeration on your part, but i understand you are a bit disheartened by the current system and subsequently upset about it.



Duskwolf has already quit GW2.  he doesnt even play anymore, he admitted it.  he just cant quit the forums.  i dont think its healthy.  dont feed him.

That's hardly an argument. The entire game is not needed; it's a game, after all.
The only reason any of us are here is because we think it can be a better game than it is - which is why I bring up the points of how flavorless and bland the game's item-acquisition systems are.
Something else that invalidates that argument of yours is that there is nothing else to strive for, in the game. You can glide by without even trying on most things - even dungeons. After you get your exotics, what are you even supposed to do? Just quit? What kind of game design is that?

Imagine if, instead of just collecting a ridiculous amount of trade materials to make a gift, you only collected 1/4th of them - but the Mystci Forge gave you an item that initiates an event chain when you go to a certain place in the world, or talk to a certain NPC - which then initiates either a group event, or a solo event which is actually challenging - and must be overcome by getting the most out of your profession. An actual test of personal skill (which is utterly nonexistant in the game, as it is).

That implementation is much better than the current system.

[Chell]

I must really be new ...and old. So much going on that I am unaware of. Maybe people didn't really leave, could be they're in Lion's Arch dancing or acting foolish. If I had to make a complaint about the game it would be the cost of items and the subsequent lack of resale value or being able to reuse things. I personally would like to see soulbound done away with. Other than a few other minor things like cost of travel and changing character looks, I still enjoy playing. I do like to start from level 0 and go to 80. It would be nice if once I reached level 80 and wanted to start over I could at the very least be able to keep my characters storage space. Maybe I should look into other games so I could compare. TY

[Mouse1981]

Rickter, on 07 December 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

the only person's opinion i dont really respect on Guru is Duskwolf's. . . .

Because who you respect is so important to anybody? What are you, a certified reviewer? A critic?

[DuskWolf]

@Rickter

It would be silly to assume that no one involved in the production and development of other MMOs read these forums, and others like them, to gauge the response to GW2. The simple fact of the matter is is that there's an underserved demographic involved - one that prefers skill over time games; One that is looking for a game that has the kind of variety that would allow them to mix things up and do something a bit different every so often. And they might take that to heart.

To be honest, I'll do whatever I can to avoid another WoW also-ran happening. Believe me, I was very passionate about GW2 not being a WoW also-ran before release, I was one of the most. I desperately, vociferously wanted it to be that game, the one that would break the WoW also-ran cycle. But the truth of the matter is is that it was born a WoW also-ran, and every step they take takes the game more into that category. We might not be able to save GW2, and I've given up trying because their bigwigs clearly don't want to listen. (They're so far gone that they close even the most politely worded feedback threads over on their forums, and they went so far as to basically call GW1 a terrible game.)

But we might be able to stop the next game that rolls around from going that way. Thus far, Champions Online and Free Realms are the only themepark MMOs which haven't fallen into the WoW also-ran category. Champions Online I've played to death, and Free Realms isn't entirely to my tastes, even though I respect and even admire what SOE did with it. I'm just waiting for that game. GW2 was supposed to be that game. But I won't fool myself. I'm on the lookout again, hoping beyond hope.

Like I've said, though... letting this be a walled garden where everyone only speaks positively of WoW also-rans is contrary to my priorities. I (and others here) want to provide a voice that says: Mo, that's not okay, and we're just not interested in playing WoW also-rans, or WoW itself. We want something better. We want something different.

Edited by DuskWolf, 07 December 2012 - 09:15 AM.

[DuskWolf]

Asudementio, on 07 December 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

Why pick at GW2 though, if you are unrepresented why not bicker with and argue with players of some other game? I don't really care if you lambaste GW2 or if you praise it, i'm just interested in the reason you choose this game.

I figure that this is probably important to reply to, just to stress the point.

What's the biggest name in the MMO market right now?

Here's a clue: It isn't TOR, it isn't The Secret World, it's Guild Wars 2. The mass exodus has begun, yes, but what we say here is still important. There are people whose job it is to try and find out what market wants. And they'll be very interested in why the popularity of GW2 is rapidly dropping off. (And let's not argue about that. Here and elsewhere there have been numerous threads about ghost town zones/shards.) Not only that, but those who're interested in making MMOs might be following it just to understand the ecology.

If this forum was a walled garden where only positive things could be said about GW2 (much like the official forums), then that wouldn't help anyone. But by us voicing our concerns, those concerns might get noticed. Marketing people may actually see that there's a massive, underserved demographic that doesn't want WoW also-rans. So by voicing our concerns at the latest also-ran failure, we may actually begin to get that point across.

That's the only reason I'm still bothering. Because someone might see this fallout and think 'Hey, maybe our next MMO shouldn't be a WoW also-ran after all. Back to the drawing board!' GW2 is failing, and it's important for everyone to understand why. Every MMO that does this also-ran thing is going to see this mass exodus of players, because most of those players want a different kind of game. Most of them are tired of this time > skill nonsense that requires them to set aside their life to grind.

--- Edit ---

Here's something to consider: Many people who played WoW when they were younger have since grown up; They have jobs and a social life. As such, they don't have that kind of time to dedicate to a game. And WoW is still there, and it provides the best option for young kids with too much time. It always will be the best option for them. No new game will be a better option. Not TOR, not GW2.

What you need to look at is that there's a massive pool of gamers between 18 and 65 who don't want a game that's going to eat up all their time. ArenaNet has foolishly decided to make a WoW also-ran, to take a slice of that WoW pie. But the fact of the matter is is that if a kid was given the choice of two games, one which had loads more content, and one with much less, they'd make the obvious choice. GW2 is an also-ran because it can't hope to compete with WoW. Nothing can.

This is the point we need to get over to those who're working on MMOs right now. GW2 is a lost cause, but MMOs on the horizon might not be financial disasters if they'd just take this to heart.

Edited by DuskWolf, 07 December 2012 - 09:31 AM.

[Asudementio]

DuskWolf, on 07 December 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

I figure that this is probably important to reply to, just to stress the point.

What's the biggest name in the MMO market right now?

Here's a clue: It isn't TOR, it isn't The Secret World, it's Guild Wars 2. The mass exodus has begun, yes, but what we say here is still important. There are people whose job it is to try and find out what market wants. And they'll be very interested in why the popularity of GW2 is rapidly dropping off. (And let's not argue about that. Here and elsewhere there have been numerous threads about ghost town zones/shards.) Not only that, but those who're interested in making MMOs might be following it just to understand the ecology.

If this forum was a walled garden where only positive things could be said about GW2 (much like the official forums), then that wouldn't help anyone. But by us voicing our concerns, those concerns might get noticed. Marketing people may actually see that there's a massive, underserved demographic that doesn't want WoW also-rans. So by voicing our concerns at the latest also-ran failure, we may actually begin to get that point across.

That's the only reason I'm still bothering. Because someone might see this fallout and think 'Hey, maybe our next MMO shouldn't be a WoW also-ran after all. Back to the drawing board!' GW2 is failing, and it's important for everyone to understand why. Every MMO that does this also-ran thing is going to see this mass exodus of players, because most of those players want a different kind of game. Most of them are tired of this time > skill nonsense that requires them to set aside their life to grind.

--- Edit ---

Here's something to consider: Many people who played WoW when they were younger have since grown up; They have jobs and a social life. As such, they don't have that kind of time to dedicate to a game. And WoW is still there, and it provides the best option for young kids with too much time. It always will be the best option for them. No new game will be a better option. Not TOR, not GW2.

What you need to look at is that there's a massive pool of gamers between 18 and 65 who don't want a game that's going to eat up all their time. ArenaNet has foolishly decided to make a WoW also-ran, to take a slice of that WoW pie. But the fact of the matter is is that if a kid was given the choice of two games, one which had loads more content, and one with much less, they'd make the obvious choice. GW2 is an also-ran because it can't hope to compete with WoW. Nothing can.

This is the point we need to get over to those who're working on MMOs right now. GW2 is a lost cause, but MMOs on the horizon might not be financial disasters if they'd just take this to heart.

If you think GW2 is the biggest name in the MMO market right now you're delusion. WoW is still the crowning jewel of the crown. It seems to me you are just fishing for an excuse to bash GW2 because early you said that this community needs to voice its opinion so that future developer whoa re examining the market will make a game more tailored to you. First of all if they are examining the market it isn't neseccarily important which game you voice your dissent of unless you think being extraordinarily contrary and attention grabbing is the best way to voice your stance. Second you ignore the possibility that your stance is a fringe stance and that a niche game would have to be made for you.

[DuskWolf]

@Asudementio

Please read my post. I never said I was looking for the biggest name. I said I was looking for the biggest trending name which is currently falling out of trending favour. The rest of your tangent is nothing more than an irrelevant attack when you understand that. TOR was the previous trending name that fell out of favour, and there were people there saying much what I am, here.

We just want marketers, producers, and developers to understand that there's a large, underserved demographic who'd appreciate a skill > time game. And if they have to include vertical progression, then at least throw in a power plateau (in gear, player abilities, and levels) that won't have moving goalposts. Why you and others think that this opinion is something to attack me over is beyond me.

But hey, ArenaNet fans are always classy. :I

Edited by Feathermoore, 07 December 2012 - 05:12 PM.
removed quoted content

[Resolve]

DuskWolf, on 07 December 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

If this forum was a walled garden where only positive things could be said about GW2 (much like the official forums), then that wouldn't help anyone. But by us voicing our concerns, those concerns might get noticed. Marketing people may actually see that there's a massive, underserved demographic that doesn't want WoW also-rans. So by voicing our concerns at the latest also-ran failure, we may actually begin to get that point across.

That didn't help Swtor. And there were lunatics defending Bioware and all of their very big mistakes just like here. Obviously it's not as bad here because GW2 isn't the massive disaster that Swtor was but yeah.

[Kymeric]

DuskWolf, on 07 December 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

It would be foolish to think that upcoming MMO developers aren't reading communities like this to see how recent big names like TOR and GW@ are doing. And to find out why they've failed. So our demographic hangs around to say why we're not playing.

Unfortunately, developers are only a part of the equation, and are servants to the producers.

I have no doubt that many of the ANet staff want to make the game you and I want to play.  I also have no doubt that it will take a near miraculous conjunction of events for people with money to fund and trust it.

The MMORPG industry is clearly not the only one that suffers from this.  Look at Hollywood.  Studios continue to churn out big budget, soulless movies in spite of losing a lot of money on many of them because it's still safer than producing something unique.

So, yeah.  Discussions like this on forums, even if developers are watching, is a bit of preaching to the choir.  And this kind of discussion is unlikely to sway producers, who are likely to shrug it off with "Players don't know what they really want".

[DuskWolf]

Resolve, on 07 December 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

That didn't help Swtor. And there were lunatics defending Bioware and all of their very big mistakes just like here. Obviously it's not as bad here because GW2 isn't the massive disaster that Swtor was but yeah.

It wasn't meant to help TOR just as it's not meant to help GW2.

No, what I'm saying is is that marketing people, producers, and developers of other games are going to be interested in what's caused the mass exodus and drop in popularity for GW2. And people like myself are here to tell them. There were fans of skill > time games, here, because that's what ArenaNet promised. When they switched to time > skill, they lost almost all of them. Hence the mass exodus. Someone has to stick around to say why we left.

Edited by Feathermoore, 07 December 2012 - 07:12 PM.
removed flamebait

[Asudementio]

DuskWolf, on 07 December 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

@Asudementio

Please read my post. I never said I was looking for the biggest name. I said I was looking for the biggest trending name which is currently falling out of trending favour. The rest of your tangent is nothing more than an irrelevant attack when you understand that. TOR was the previous trending name that fell out of favour, and there were people there saying much what I am, here.

We just want marketers, producers, and developers to understand that there's a large, underserved demographic who'd appreciate a skill > time game. And if they have to include vertical progression, then at least throw in a power plateau (in gear, player abilities, and levels) that won't have moving goalposts. Why you and others think that this opinion is something to attack me over is beyond me.

But hey, ArenaNet fans are always classy. :I

You actually did not say that, but post-diction is always more convenient in argument. And did i come across as attacking you? I was actually being a bit on the oft side. But if you want to play the defamation game i can reciprocate.

As it stands i think skill > time features should be in games as well as time > skill features. They can coexist, and i think it would serve any game's money making model and player retention to employ both. More balanced and engaging spvp could serve that purpose in GW2- it is already in the spirit of skill > time, class imbalances forgiven of course.

DuskWolf, on 07 December 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

It wasn't meant to help TOR just as it's not meant to help GW2.


No, what I'm saying is is that marketing people, producers, and developers of other games are going to be interested in what's caused the mass exodus and drop in popularity for GW2. And people like myself are here to tell them. There were fans of skill > time games, here, because that's what ArenaNet promised. When they switched to time > skill, they lost almost all of them. Hence the mass exodus. Someone has to stick around to say why we left.

I think this stance improperly ties the "mass exodus" of GW2 solely to dissatisfaction with the pve of the game being more favorable to those who can invest more time ONLY after the addition of ascended items and event then only slightly. People leave for a variety of reasons; you are just parading your particular issue as the reason because you make it sufficiently broad as to try and protect it from scrutiny. Could you cite some population trends or link me some information on how the patch effected the populations of servers so i can make a better assessment of your position?

Edited by Feathermoore, 07 December 2012 - 07:12 PM.
fixed quoted material

[Feathermoore]

I would like to request that we tone down the righteous attitudes and the needless snide remarks and personal attacks.

They detract from the thread, prevent civilized discussion, and tend to make you look like a 16 year old that hasn't yet figured out that they don't actually know everything.




Please note that this is more than a request. Tone it down.

[Targren]

Sephirox507, on 25 November 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

I think people quitting after three months instead of staying and giving feedback that can actually help GW2 devs is the problem with MMO Community this days.

What's the point? No matter what feedback you give, there are always, always, always going to be the cheerleading squad who responds to that sort of feedback with namecalling, insults, and assurances that you're wrong and everything is fine. And looking at the official forums where such feedback would make sense, it's clear to see how the moderation staff lean. Feedback threads are merged, destroying any sense of context, and  bans and suspensions are handed out a little too freely while criticism posts are deleted as "not contributing to threads" while supportive "me toos" are ignored.

Community interaction is one of the many places ANet is dropping the ball.

[Ingway]

Me and some friends stoped for a good while after the ascended gear was added in... we have some feedback on the matter when the devs asked... but we lost interest in the game after that. They made legendary weapons equal to ascended gear, wich was stated by then from the freaking beggining was just a cool looking item with a effect, so yeah... i bought the game because it wasn't that close to the old MMO formula of grinding to get the good stuff, so i'm giving it a rest until things get better, or worse...

Edited by Ingway, 09 December 2012 - 05:07 AM.

[Dasryn]

DuskWolf, on 07 December 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

And people like myself are here to tell them.

Dusk, ANet Devs arent reading what you are saying on Guru.  and even if they did, they've probably tuned out a long time ago since you pretty much say the same thing over and over again.

maybe im just spoiled from being on Tarnished Coast but i play GW2 every day and i see enormous amounts of players i nthe lower level areas.  i mean, there is a giant crowd around AC and ive run AC 8 times and it never took more than 5 minutes to find a group.  Dynamic Events usually start with just myself and my wife or just me and then all of a sudden i finish it with over 5 other players?

the Tarnished Coast community is pretty good wit hthe Map Chat DE call out and there are tons of playrs more than willing to participate.  it brings a smile to my face every time.

hell, even Divinity's Reach and The Black Citadel are packed.  id even go as far to say its almost on par with Lion's Arch.

so im not sure if this thread is even valid.  i mean, for all we know, the OP logged on at a bad time and decided to jump on the "Oh MY Dear Lord, GW2 Is DEAD!!!!" band wagon.  all the servers are pacific zone servers and i do start seeing a lot more players around 10PM EST (which sucks for me) but all in all i think the playerbase is still strong judging from my experiences on Tarnished Coast.

ANet is even generous enough to offer free server transfers.  players must exhaust all options before jumping to conclusions and stirring up the community.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Such a server. They clear Orr daily too, every waypoint not contested, Balth, Grenth etc done? Damn, i should leave my full jade quarry for this amazing elite server. Oh wait, is it NA or EU? Because uhm, maybe can be the only main server online worldwide worthy to stay, no more NA or EU servers at all, reading your amazing words about such a bonded community giving priority to normal PVE than fractals.
AC speedfarm never contested dungeon crowded, uhm.. *cough*
If i move there with my arah fullset, all ascended gear 30 def + malign, what am i, a god and people knee when i arrive to LA?

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 09 December 2012 - 08:07 AM.

[Chell]

Feathermoore, on 07 December 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

I would like to request that we tone down the righteous attitudes and the needless snide remarks and personal attacks.

They detract from the thread, prevent civilized discussion, and tend to make you look like a 16 year old that hasn't yet figured out that they don't actually know everything.

Please note that this is more than a request. Tone it down.

I find it difficult to comprehend a lot of what is being said, maybe old age or just plain stupidity. It might be more beneficial if the problems with the game were laid out a little more simply. anet may or may not be listening to all this and if the problem is stated  in a structured way and presented as a want list by the gamers it might go farther and accomplish something.

I personally find it expensive, if I keep my gear updated I have to buy it since drops are poor, and drops are so poor I can't afford to buy using game earned gold. If I buy a coat for 38 silver and resale is 1 silver then that is a problem to me. If I bust my ... killing 4 veteran monsters and getting no drops from any of them, that is a problem for me. Invulnerable monsters are a problem, I'm not that good a player to be able take punishment while my foe doesn't. I play solo so the higher level areas can be frustrating, monsters respawning before I kill the first one or even a mobs spawning and stomping me isn't that much fun. I know MMO, but how many groups can there be? I see a lot more solo players than groups and I have 2 level 80 characters, a level 55, 33 and 22.

I am sure there are a lot of experienced players that could put together a fact sheet or petition for anet and request fixes. I don't know how many players they need to make a profit but if the game is a grind without rewards, which it seems to be, then people like myself will go back to playing Mass Effect or Skyrim.

[Perm Shadow Form]

I used to warn people for gw2 being a failure (lacking skillfull gameplay and no endgame) , but they just said I was a troll and flamer and look!  I was right.  

Whenever I hear GW2 and skill in one sentence I laugh.

[pumpkin pie]

Becasue people do not need to pay subscription fees to play this game.
once you are at top level, most players came back for special events, those that don't want to "grind" for gear won't be glueing themself to the game. but they will swarm the game when there's a special event. (hence why the server crashed during the one time event)

2 million copies reported sold around september, millions of players cannot all be hiding.

one time event .... i think i have to stop hating it, (i think i may have suggested it once, a long time ago, having a dragon arrive in GW1 etc etc when GW2 is launch bla bla and LOL me, i can't make time for it) and also because it is best representing a living, breathing, fantasy world, i only hope dynamic events gets an "upgrades" they should be randomly generated, and player should never see, XX Champion is up at abc location, repeatedly, veterans/champions/chests/ skill challenges/ should all be moving around randomly,  nor should players be able to find a chest at the same X location on a daily basis.

[Plasticblanket]

Perm Shadow Form, on 09 December 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

I used to warn people for gw2 being a failure (lacking skillfull gameplay and no endgame) , but they just said I was a troll and flamer and look!  I was right.  

Whenever I hear GW2 and skill in one sentence I laugh.

You just made me laugh as well

Skill in GW2 is the biggest joke.

[gOa]

pumpkin pie, on 09 December 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

Becasue people do not need to pay subscription fees to play this game.
once you are at top level, most players came back for special events, those that don't want to "grind" for gear won't be glueing themself to the game. but they will swarm the game when there's a special event.

2 million copies reported sold around september, millions of players cannot all be hiding.

The people who arent playing still feel the need to troll game-related forums though.
I guess they're that bored with life or need some kind of social acknowledgement. Who knows...
For my part, I'll be there for wintersday!!

[DuskWolf]

@gOa

I just guess we don't want you to have your walled garden. Besides, I've given plentiful good reasons to stick around for the last of the fall. The most important of which being is that there will be people involved in other MMOs reading this, and it's important for them to get a good idea of why a mass exodus is occurring right now; To help them understand mistakes they can avoid in their MMO.

To be honest, I'm sick of every MMO being copypasta of WoW, with only mild cosmetic differences. GW2 is no exception.

[Dasryn]

DuskWolf, on 09 December 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

@gOa

I just guess we don't want you to have your walled garden. Besides, I've given plentiful good reasons to stick around for the last of the fall. The most important of which being is that there will be people involved in other MMOs reading this, and it's important for them to get a good idea of why a mass exodus is occurring right now; To help them understand mistakes they can avoid in their MMO.

To be honest, I'm sick of every MMO being copypasta of WoW, with only mild cosmetic differences. GW2 is no exception.

Dusk, please reference:



now im seriously going to need you to stop lying about the state of the game and spreading the poison you have been.  the game is fine, no one went anywhere, you are th minority.

[justOneWord]

The servers beeing full doesn't necessarily mean there is a coherent group existing. What if the people who log in to play for more than two consecutive hours (the people you might want to spend your time with) and are level 80 for some time are going extinct? You could call them the seniors.

ArenaNet has enforced the one-senior policy. Every new player (child) has to murder a senior by showing them how bland the endgame is. With all the old people gone the new players prosper and multiply. Suddenly a million players at level 43 logging in. Everyones happy because the game never had that many players before.

Except the guild leaders who could invite 100 low level player a minute if they wanted to, or ponder how many level 80 members have been marked grey for many days.

You might say, whats wrong with low level players? Well nothing. Except that its likely they end up quitting too. As long as you find replacement you can do dungeons all day long, WvW all day long, PvP until you die.

But thats not what MMOs are about in my opinion. Actually, I think this constant change is detrimental to gaming as a whole. Dedicated servers where the same people meet everyday are long gone from most games. One could hope MMOs would be different.

But with matchmaking, hidden names of foes, instancing, gigantic servers and no need for communication you end up lonely despite playing with thousands of people a day.

What do I care if it's anecdotal evidence to say that all my guild members and friends stopped playing? That's what I bought the game for! Not to search for a new guild every month, hunt for members, try to keep groups together and try my best to get people to see the hidden games and challenges this game has to offer (which there aren't many to begin with).

No one should be downvoted for saying "you'll get your moneys worth if you buy this game right now, but don't except to play this game in a year."

If 90% of your friends are still playing in a year, fine. But I would call you damn lucky if that happened.

Edited by justOneWord, 09 December 2012 - 09:35 PM.

[Dasryn]

if a server is full, then its full.  accept it.

[Millimidget]

Rickter, on 09 December 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

now im seriously going to need you to stop lying about the state of the game and spreading the poison you have been.  the game is fine, no one went anywhere, you are th minority.

I wouldn't put any faith at all into that; three months into TOR you'd see similar screenshots of the login screen during the choicest primetime. Actually logging into the game, you'd realize just how horribly misrepresentative login screens are.

Please stop buring your heads in the sand and being part of the problem; get on A.nets case and be part of the solution.

Rickter, on 07 December 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

Duskwolf has already quit GW2.  he doesnt even play anymore, he admitted it.  he just cant quit the forums.  i dont think its healthy.  dont feed him.

He succinctly explained why himself and others linger around; I'm still playing GW2, so if I just copy his words and regurgitate them, does that make the opinion more valid?

"Don't feed him" - you fanboys troll the games you love harder than anyone else does. It's really offputting to any rational person.

Rickter, on 09 December 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

if a server is full, then its full.  accept it.

Full is meaningless; no developer lets the bulk of their servers sit at low pop any longer, they simply adjust the thresholds so that every server looks high pop.

Further, full here just means "closed to transfers." Do you know exactly how they calculate full? I can only guess, but it involves both active logins as well as total accounts per server.

Rickter, on 09 December 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

maybe im just spoiled from being on Tarnished Coast but i play GW2 every day and i see enormous amounts of players i nthe lower

If you're on TC, where'd you get the screenshot which states "home server: Gunnar's Hold." Now I've gotta wonder if that's just a cherry-picked screenshot, or if it's even recent enough to be relevant to this discussion.

DuskWolf, on 09 December 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

and it's important for them to get a good idea of why a mass exodus is occurring right now

I wouldn't call it a mass-exodus; the game has been bleeding players since the first month. There are fundamental issues with the game and/or with endgame which drive that.

Edited by Millimidget, 09 December 2012 - 10:57 PM.