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Where has everyone gone?


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#61 Dasryn

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:27 AM

View PostWordsworth, on 25 November 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

I used to watch Battlestar Galactica while waiting hours for a Fractals X group, but now I don't bother with the LFG, takes too long. Now I just watch BSG.




Two things; the gear treadmill is present in subscription games, and we got that. And also, I want the content ANet was releasing with GW1.

so, are you under the impression that you are not going to ever see that content?

that makes me feel like you guys arent taking into consideration that the game has been out a measily 3 months.  i believe the content will come but it isnt going to get here over night.

the community(a small percentage really) is complaining about the apparent lack of content, but you must understand that because you are not being charged a sub fee, waiting for content should not be that big of an issue as you are not paying every month to play the game.

its a no pressure approach.

think about it, most of the recent mmorpgs that have come out have always charged a sub.  because we had to pay to play a game every month, we got into the mindset that bugs needed to be fixed faster, content needed to be released faster etc. - because we are paying to  play every month and its what we deserve.

but this doesnt apply to GW2.  i want new content but i dont expect ANet to crank it out as fast as i expected in a game like SWTOR, because im not getting charged every month to play GW2!  the pressure is off.

so i dont understand why threads like this exist barely 3 months into a game (2 months 26 days) - you guys arent being fair to the developers.

bottom line: if GW2 is in the exact same state that its in now, 6 months down the road, then id get pissed, but not barely 3 months in guys. . .

#62 Wordsworth

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:31 AM

View PostRickter, on 25 November 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

so, are you under the impression that you are not going to ever see that content?

No... Frankly, I don't even know where you got that idea from.

I'm addressing the contradiction you made by stating we won't get subscription fee content when we already have (the real content in Lost Shores, and the gear treadmill), and when we know that ANet's model is expansion packs, like in GW1.

Edited by Wordsworth, 25 November 2012 - 03:34 AM.


#63 Dasryn

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:34 AM

View PostWordsworth, on 25 November 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

No... Frankly I don't even know where you got that idea from.

oh ok, well thats why i was asking because it almost seemed like you were implying that ANet was not planning on releasing the content you preferred from GW1 and thats why you were finding less reasons to log in and play GW2.

its late, maybe i was reading into it too much.

#64 Markus

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:34 AM

I lost all motivation to continue playing after I read the announcement that Arenanet will implement a new tier of gear with content gating mechanics, something they once looked down upon. I was pretty turned off by the ongoing rendering issue and the copious amounts of bugs in the game already, but the Ascended gear was the last straw. Honestly I just don't want to grind anymore, as I've done that enough to cover my character entirely in Exotics, and acquiring each Ascended piece seems like a pretty grindy process.

Now, I'm sure most of us knew Fractals of the Mist will turn much of Tyria into a barren wasteland as well as poison and divide the community, and I wondered whether Arenanet had these in mind as well before they implement the dungeon (and if they did, then they totally deserve to lose even more customers). Seeing that Arenanet didn't even bother to acknowledge the Ascended gear fiasco in their recent blog, I've lost all my faith in them, and thus I don't think I'll ever come back to the game or purchase their future expansions.

Edited by Markus, 25 November 2012 - 04:20 AM.


#65 Dasryn

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:39 AM

View PostMarkus, on 25 November 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

I lost all motivation to continue playing after I read the announcement that Arenanet will implement a new tier of gear with content gating mechanics, something they once looked down upon. I was pretty turned off by the ongoing rendering issue and the copious amount of bugs in the game already, but the Ascended gear was the last straw. Honestly I just don't want to grind anymore, as I've done that enough to cover my character entirely in Exotics, and acquiring each Ascended piece seems like a pretty grindy process.

Now, I'm sure most of us knew Fractals of the Mist will turn much of Tyria into a barren wasteland as well as poison and divide the community, and I wondered whether Arenanet had these in mind as well before they implement the dungeon (and if they did, then they totally deserve to lose even more customers). Seeing Arenanet don't even bother to acknowledge the Ascended gear fiasco in their recent blog, I've lost all my faith in them, and thus I don't think I'll ever come back to the game or purchase their future expansions.

many of these issues can change with a mere patch, i wouldnt lose faith yet.  you arent paying a sub, so just take a break and log in at a later date.

#66 Asomal

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:01 AM

Since the headstart, anet has only made terrible decisions and changes upon this game, no wonder people are gone (ok, there were some good changes, but nothing at the same level as breaking completly their own manifesto). BW's and stress tests were fun because we didn't know how the future endgame would be. There were it flaws, but nothing major that Anet couldn't fix. But naaaah, they are still there....

- Changed dye system to character bound
- Changed dungeon token system (at least they kinda of fixed it later)
- Zaitahn still sucks, and he is the main icon from the lore
- PvP it's not even close to become an e-sport (and they could easily separate casual pvp x pro pvp with the sPvP and tPvP, making the game casual and hardcore at the same time).
- Added DR into the game
- No TP for more than a week (headstart)
- Bots and gold sellers for more than 2 months
- Cities are unfinished (no events, no mini-games, no "customize your home district"...)
- Added gear treadmill in the last patch


And the list goes on, but I don't feel like adding more things into it right now. Feel free to do so, tough

Edited by Asomal, 25 November 2012 - 04:05 AM.


#67 Cobalt60

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:05 AM

View PostWordsworth, on 25 November 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

Two things; the gear treadmill is present in subscription games, and we got that. And also, I want the content ANet was releasing with GW1.

You mean the 4 things we got that weren't in a paid expansion in 7 years? Sorrow's Furnace, Domain of Anguish (which can technically be said to be part of Nightfall) War in Kryta and Winds of Change.

#68 kendro1200

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:12 AM

View PostFiachSidhe, on 25 November 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

GW2's limited content, and arrogant and clueless developers, inspired me to further explore my many, many options for gaming. My close friends who all bought the game, have no desire to continue playing this game as it is now.
Anet devs are a million times more aware or what's going on in their own game than most other devs for MMOs.  Blizzard is a classic example of a game where the people paid to develop it are incapable of doing so and rely on volunteers from the community to do all of the work for them.
The only real flaw with their current system is that they made exotics and rares too easy to get.  Exotics should have required a lot more farming, or the mats should have been on 24 hour respawn timers per account from the start.


edit: To top that off, a good chunk of people who were at the release of GW2 and have quit between September to early November for the most part have entirely missed the point of GW2, and powered through content with only a singular goal in mind.  I have yet to meet another person who has exotic'ed out more than one build for their main.  I've only met two other people that actually change builds frequently to try out entirely different things in PvE, WvW and sPvP.
Yes there are some popular builds, that are popular because during stress tests they showed real weight in sPvP.  Not all aspects of the game are exactly like sPvP though, and there are lots of builds that work amazingly well that most people don't know about.  For necros, most necros don't know how to build a correct Minion Master build.  They think stacking power, vit, toughness and minions is how you make a MM build (which it isn't).  I've yet to see someone actually attempt a ranger druid build on my server.  Then most warriors I've seen run with thousand blades and builds built for it and nothing else.
That being said, you really shouldn't be spending 3+ hours per night on this game, there's no reason to.  There isn't really even a reason to log in every day, unless mystic coins mean that much to you, or you really, really enjoy WvW.  That can be said with all other MMOs though, if you're logging into any MMO every night, and expect 3+ hours to disappear and leave you satisfied, you have other problems to address.

Edited by kendro1200, 25 November 2012 - 04:22 AM.


#69 Ghetto Medic

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:45 AM

I see the same problem with gw2 and gw1.  I am still playing but imo, guild wars is supposed to be about pvp.  GW2 end game should be focused on pvp/wvw and like Gw1, the devs spend all their time working on pve content and pvper's get shafted.  We need e sports, better organization for pvp, wvw progression, more balancing.  The slow pace of balacning is a joke.  Forget the pve Anet, you will never satisfy the hardcore pve'ers...give us some more pvp.

#70 IsThisNameTaken

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:29 AM

I get the feeling that some of those who say GW1 was awesome with no grind and whatnot have never read or been on guildwarsguru. It full of whiners. Grand grind grind, pvp sucks, x not balanced, where is my paragon/ranger skills overhaul, lfg DoA must be R8, and the list goes on.

People are always going to be attached to that nostalgic feeling. The sad part is that a lot of them, expectedly, didn't get and thus GW2 has died to them.

As to answer the question where is everybody: FotM, LA, searching for a another game that will allow them to experience something new.

#71 DuskWolf

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:11 AM

View PostXodiak, on 25 November 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

It sure is amusing to see how many people "quit" a game that has no monthly fee *boggle*, only to spend their time complaining on an unofficial forum about a game they claim they no longer care to play.
If we're no longer giving our money to ArenaNet, that is technically quitting. Between Champions Online and Mass Effect 3, I spent almost $80 last month. That could have been money put on Guild Wars 2.

And we're here because we're too morbidly fascinated by the cognitive dissonance and the accompanying intellectual dishonesty to leave. It's kind of like a 'talent' show, you know? Like X-Factor or whatever your equivalent is. You can't help but wonder how these people have no self-respect or shame, you're embarrassed for them, but you just can't stop watching. You're compelled by morbid curiosity.

And on some level you hope that they'll gain enough self-respect eventually to wise up. Call it a mission of mercy that we give enough of a damn to try and shake you out of your state of delusionary cognitive dissonance.

#72 Trei

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:38 AM

View PostDuskWolf, on 25 November 2012 - 06:11 AM, said:

... cognitive dissonance.
You really... I mean really.. like this term, don't you?

#73 Afyael

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:52 AM

View PostIsThisNameTaken, on 25 November 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

I get the feeling that some of those who say GW1 was awesome with no grind and whatnot have never read or been on guildwarsguru. It full of whiners. Grand grind grind, pvp sucks, x not balanced, where is my paragon/ranger skills overhaul, lfg DoA must be R8, and the list goes on.

People are always going to be attached to that nostalgic feeling. The sad part is that a lot of them, expectedly, didn't get and thus GW2 has died to them.

As to answer the question where is everybody: FotM, LA, searching for a another game that will allow them to experience something new.

It's not the nostalgia feeling, you can still play GW1 and its sad how after 7 years the pvp there is still better than GW2. There will never be perfect balance but the pvp was far more skill based. Unfortunately in GW2, despite having a small number of skills, the balance is still atrocious.

You do bring up a good point about DoA, I never did finish it (although I did get to r8 Lightbringer for HoM) because that thing didn't appeal to me but at least the gear out of there didn't have better stats (I would be happy with Fractals if they didn't add in the extra gear - just some nice skins that drop more frequently as you go to higher levels).

#74 Var

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 07:13 AM

I know we're passionate about the game's fate and all but let's try to not make stuff up...

View PostMarkus, on 25 November 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

...new tier of gear with content gating mechanics...

This doesn't exist. None of the content is gated aside from a small set of weapon skins, to get those skins you grind... when did grinding for skins become a problem? What is a problem is the tiering on entry and they really should flip it such that you are scaled up to the highest level but progress based on your level so you can play with friends but you cannot be "run" to the max level.

View PostAfyael, on 25 November 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

...its sad how after 7 years the pvp there is still better than GW2...

No, they are both terrible. GW1 was destroyed by a power creep, terrible balancing decisions, introduction of classes outside of the core six (and again, bad balancing), as well as mechanics altering that ruined GvG and HoH. GW2 is crap because it lacks key basic features in sPvP and a sense of reward/progression (and some form of variety) in WvW.

GW2 is much more salvageable than GW1 wherein the latter case would require the deletion of entire skill sets, classes, and maps.

Edited by Var, 25 November 2012 - 07:15 AM.


#75 lmaonade

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 07:25 AM

I'm playing less and less now, the game is still fun, and I still have plans and goals to motivate myself, but when I first started just the game itself was motivation enough to keep me going, now I have to establish certain in game goals (for right now it's level my ranger to 80 and fully gear it) to get that motivation and it's not even as strong as it was before.

That new game feel just faded away

Edit: but I totally get it when you say the game was more fun before you hit 80, leveling alts seems so much like a drag now

Edited by lmaonade, 25 November 2012 - 07:26 AM.


#76 Resolve

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:07 AM

View PostHawkofStorms, on 24 November 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

WoW expansion if your guild was PvE
Planetside 2 if you guild was WvW

This seems very true. Although PS2 has the culling issue that WvW has as well....

#77 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:56 AM

I finally got around to bringing my character to a high enough level to be able to start doing dungeons and if it wasn't for my guild, there would be absolutely no way that I could do the story versions. We found some people for AC, but there was no-one wanting to do CM and then our map invites kept getting suppressed due to excessive messaging (evidently, that happens after you post the same message 3 times) so the only way that I could finally do the story was to wait for another guild member to come on.

We need those h/h soon. It would be fantastic if you could use them in open world also, since some events need groups and there's just no-one around to do them.

#78 Var

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:58 AM

View PostResolve, on 25 November 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

This seems very true. Although PS2 has the culling issue that WvW has as well....

And the hacking issue.
And the lagg issue.

The game is downright hackware right now. Spawning exploding tanks all over the map? Yes please.

#79 omar316

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 09:01 AM

Many were and had already been pointing out the severe lack of content and "hook" to keep playing.

Rickter makes some valid points. GW2 was not meant to be a MMO to keep playing. It's simply too casual. It's a sort of a theme park. You go in when you're bored with your group of friends enjoy for a time and then forget about it for a long time.

I'm back to Warhammer, and SWTOR. I got a few DS games to complete as well playing through them. Just completed Pokemon conquest, working on Kindom Hearts, awesome RPG btw. Some are back on Rift. Many are back on WoW.
Most probably I'll be working on my shiny new ZombiU and NSMB WiiU while the GW2 vent is empty.

GW2 isn't meant to be a persistently played game. It's a game you play some and then can take a break and then comeback again. I suppose it's only a matter of time when pay to win model might be introduced, buy some asended/legendary stuff from the auction house with real cash.

Let it rest lol. No point expecting something from the game where it is not designed the way.

#80 verskore

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 09:32 AM

Black Ops 2, that's what happened xD for me atleast

#81 Strawberry Nubcake

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 09:44 AM

Anet changed their stance and I'm not feeling confident about the direction the game is going now.  Sometimes I log in to do my dalies and maybe a little exploration on my alts... sometimes I don't log in at all.  That's a big change from logging in for several hours every day!  I haven't returned to any of my old MMORPGs since they are everything I wanted to get away from, but I've definitely been playing other games for the past couple of weeks.  Logging in just doesn't give me the same joy it used to.

Then again, I guess I should be in game grinding my ass off so I can afford to buy the wintersday minipets in a few weeks.  I have a feeling that they will make us gamble for them instead of letting us to flat out buy them since it seemed to work out so well with the lost shore stuff.  Maybe they will also add costumes to the boxes as well!  YAY!!  ;)

#82 Arkantos

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 09:52 AM

View PostVar, on 25 November 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

No, they are both terrible. GW1 was destroyed by a power creep, terrible balancing decisions, introduction of classes outside of the core six (and again, bad balancing), as well as mechanics altering that ruined GvG and HoH. GW2 is crap because it lacks key basic features in sPvP and a sense of reward/progression (and some form of variety) in WvW.

GW2 is much more salvageable than GW1 wherein the latter case would require the deletion of entire skill sets, classes, and maps.

PvP in GW1 for the first 2 years wasn't nearly as awful as GW2 currently is. I highly doubt GW2 will ever have world tournaments as big as GW1 did just because PvP in GW2 is just....bad. As for GW2 being more salvageable, of course it is. GW1 is a 7 year old CORPG completely overshadowed by its sequel. The thing is, GW2 PvP is already going downhill after only a few months, whereas PvP in GW1 really didn't start declining rapidly until Nightfall. ANet dropped the ball big time on their proclaimed "e-sports PvP" and it's going to take a lot of effort to salvage that.

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#83 Resolve

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:43 AM

View PostVar, on 25 November 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

And the hacking issue.
And the lagg issue.

The game is downright hackware right now. Spawning exploding tanks all over the map? Yes please.


Haven't noticed any hacking or lag but I do get low fps on some continents. It seems pretty solid for only just being released. And F2P.

View PostArkantos, on 25 November 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

The thing is, GW2 PvP is already going downhill after only a few months, whereas PvP in GW1 really didn't start declining rapidly until Nightfall. ANet dropped the ball big time on their proclaimed "e-sports PvP" and it's going to take a lot of effort to salvage that.

League of Legends had a slow start as well and look at the monster it is now. They could still do something here but yeah it is going to take some work.

#84 Resolve

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:49 AM

View PostRickter, on 25 November 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:


a lot of people are unhappy however and i understand that you need more.  the gameplay, grpahics and overall presentation of GW2 is so great and amazing that you dont really want to go back to WoW, even though WoW has the content and progression you want in a game.

so it makes you upset, here is a game that has it all, everything you wanted from it, yet, its just missing that one feeling/ sense of progression that would make it absolutely great.


This game is far from having it all lol.

Btw they just added progression so all the WoW fans will be happy yeah? Oh wait, they've already left...

#85 SlappedYak

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:51 AM

View PostDaesu, on 24 November 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

GW2 just doesn't have the social element that GW1 has when it was first released.  

Interesting perspective...I'll agree that not before heroes, people were "forced" to be social in order to complete higher end pve. but do you really want that? a game that forces you to be social? Anet HAD to implement heroes/npcs because there weren't enough people for actual teams, if they hadn't their own mechanic of forcing people to be social would have killed the game.

GW2 is a lot more flexible, the vast majority of content can be solo'd, and that will give this game a huge longevity, and the ability to be elastic in its response to periods of higher/lower player activity. Having a good guild (I don't mean "pro" :P) makes a huge difference, if you want social interaction, find a guild that has people who do the same things as you/play at similar times!

All this bull about "forcing people" into end game dungeons...c'mon, Fractals added a great end game dungeon, it's a challenge. It's NOT being forced upon you.... it is possible to do normal dungeons/make alts/play wvw/craft/explore..do anything you want to do :P that's kind of the point...

#86 Da-Noob

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:04 AM

I decided to take a break from the game for a while to play other games that came out for a while.  One of the foundations upon GW2 advertised itself was that you could play and go as you choose and not feel compelled to play in order to justify a sub fee.  To be honest though, I was thinking about why I haven't found myself logging in the hours at the rate I did in GW1 and it came down to features which aren't in 2; primarily the 2nd class.  While I can't blame Anet for choosing to remove that for the sake of balancing issues, I realized that a lot of the time that I was "playing" GW1 when I typed /age  wasn't really playing as much as theory crafting.  Out of principal I never went to those build sites that they had unless I was in a group that was really stringent about running a build to the letter, and as such I would independently design builds.  For example, one day I might be on my monk deciding if it would be better to do 2nd class mes for arcane echo or ele for glyph of lesser energy.  Towards the end of the  GW1 shelf I was just finishing up my dervish running build which used the norn PvE shouts and vow of silence.  So while a lot of GW1 vets like myself understand why and don't blame Anet for dropping the secondary class, I will admit that I do kinda miss the in-game build crafting and bouncing ideas off other people who didn't just copy paste them from websites, and that those sessions made up a good number of the hours that I was in game, when I would be tinkering before logging or finding something to do in game.

Edited by Da-Noob, 25 November 2012 - 11:07 AM.


#87 Lilitu

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:06 PM

1) The people who wanted no gear grind whatsoever have been sold a lie and are leaving. These people almost exclusively wanted WvW, PvP and some FUN (key word) events/dungeons. (Point #4 aided the lack of fun).

2) The people who complained there was no "reward" for doing dungeons have been appeased with a grind. However, if you want a pve dungeon grind resulting in a power creep... there is simply no debate about it, WoW is the best game out there for that. These people are starting to realise they are playing the game in such a way that it becomes a worse version of something else.

3) Dynamic events and large server-wide events: These were a failed experiment. The questing dynamic events were 'OK' but the large more epic ones failed hard. Take the karkas for example, there were too many people per map which caused rendering issues. Because of the amount of people the mobs were tuned horribly, oneshotting people. These large events would be far better with a limited number of people in each instance. Oh wait, you mean a raid? Yeah. Easier to balance both mechanically and balance wise.

4) The holy trinity removal failed.  I won't go into more detail.

5) PvP balance is a joke.

6) The economy is a joke.

#88 Larsen

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:34 PM

Quote

4) The holy trinity removal failed.  I won't go into more detail.


I think this deserves more discussion than it has been getting. The absence of real tanks and healers hasn't broken the game completely, but I feel it has added absolutely nothing while taking away a lot of potential depth from what has turned out to be extremely bland and shallow PvE. I think the three roles simply belong in MMORPG combat and shouldn't be tampered too much with. If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it.

#89 Dasryn

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:58 PM

View PostLarsen, on 25 November 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

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I think this deserves more discussion than it has been getting. The absence of real tanks and healers hasn't broken the game completely, but I feel it has added absolutely nothing while taking away a lot of potential depth from what has turned out to be extremely bland and shallow PvE. I think the three roles simply belong in MMORPG combat and shouldn't be tampered too much with. If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it.

yeah, this is what i said about 5 months ago.  but nah, GW fans wouldnt listen, they thought this was going to be awesome!!!

my argument was that, this is a genre of gaming.  there are certain things about a genre that are main stays of the genre like certain game mechanics.  no one complains that you have to reload in every First Person Shooter - its the genre.  the trinity is part of the MMORPG genre.  its like taking away leveling - you cant do it, its the rpg genre!!

but whatever, this can be fixed.  easily.  all ANet has to do is add aggro/threat management.  example, guardian's number 4 shield skill, make that generate threat etc.  TANK PROBLEM FIXED!!

heals, make it so we can target people and just dedicate more specifically for healing.

i love how my post HERE:

Spoiler

was totally ignored even though i probably bring up the best point out of anyone in this thread.

Edited by Rickter, 25 November 2012 - 03:01 PM.


#90 Rouzeki

Rouzeki

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:09 PM

View PostSilvercat18, on 24 November 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

The people who are sticking with guildwars are those who knew what they wanted when they came.

I think this pretty much sums it up.  I don't play much, but that's due to time, not my dislike of GW2. When I do decide to game, I play GW2.  My friends who I joined with also still think this game is awesome.  We aren't 80 yet, we love WvWvW and will get back to sPvP when they address some of the glaring issues. We aren't looking for end-game progression, we're not looking to become a core member of a group that plays all the time and does the most advanced shit in the game, we're just looking to log in and have fun killing baddie together (hence why we play a mmorpg instead of a single-player game like Skyrim).

The people who have left wanted what WoW has to offer with the GW2 changes: different environment, beautiful graphics, new classes, new gameplay dynamics like dodging and no cast time (for the most part); and all the while ignoring what they liked about WoW that is missing from GW2: raiding, end-game progression whether PvE or PvP, the holy trinity of dungeon roles, etc.

Just my 2c.




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