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Will Engineers ever be good?


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#1 Bloodtau

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:23 PM

Now i'm not asking for anything flashy, I would just like the class to be on par with the other classes. It's pretty much the least played class now, for a reason. The whole class just sucks balls

#2 BreadBuddy

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:21 AM

There are always threads like this in every class forum. What does that tell you?

Just play whatever class you feel like and have fun

#3 NatasMC

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:24 AM

OP must be smoking good stuff cause Engi is a top tier class in every aspect of the game.

#4 Khlaw

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:26 AM

My engineer's just fine.

#5 Bloodtau

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:35 AM

View PostNatasMC, on 25 November 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

OP must be smoking good stuff cause Engi is a top tier class in every aspect of the game.

No, it's not. Been playing this class since the first ever beta and it's NEVER lived up to the other classes.

It's damage output is shockingly bad compared to the other classes, it's team support is in the same boat, control is bad, etc etc.

Yeah yeah, the typical argument "but this class can do everything!" yeah, but it does them all so bad compared to other classes. Want condition? Play necro, want aoe? play ele, want burst (lol, burst on an engineer) go warrior or theif, team support role? might as well role a mesmer.


Honestly, those of you that think the class is a shining beacon, explain how.

I want to love the class, I really do. I'm having a ton more fun on my alts now though. Will probably never go back to my engineer. Seems like old engineer players I take to say the same thing. The profession is becoming less and less played

Edited by Bloodtau, 25 November 2012 - 12:37 AM.


#6 Runkleford

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:38 AM

Engineers ARE good. The player at the keyboard is a different matter though.

#7 matsif

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:40 AM

grenades are on par with top dps in the game, and all is aoe.  flamethrower is close if build right.  not sure where your "shockingly bad" damage output statement is coming from.  give me some actual numbers instead of making blind stupid statements.

clearly you just are butthurt over kits or turrets or something.  please take a number and go to the back of the line, no one wants to hear you.

#8 KotCR

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:47 AM

View PostRunkleford, on 25 November 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

Engineers ARE good. The player at the keyboard is a different matter though.
THIS.
Engineers are great, I love having one in my party, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone turn them away.
They aren't played as much as some other classes simply because they are a rather funky class that doesn't quite fit in a fantasy world as much as some people would like...but it's a fluff thing rather than an effectiveness thing.

Chances are it's just you that is bad BloodTau, not the class.

Edited by KotCR, 25 November 2012 - 12:47 AM.


#9 Bloodtau

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:58 AM

View Postmatsif, on 25 November 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

grenades are on par with top dps in the game, and all is aoe.  flamethrower is close if build right.  not sure where your "shockingly bad" damage output statement is coming from.  give me some actual numbers instead of making blind stupid statements.

clearly you just are butthurt over kits or turrets or something.  please take a number and go to the back of the line, no one wants to hear you.

You keep thinking that. They aren't. It isn't even close.
As I said, i've played them in every possible way. I have also played a couple of other classes to max and they are just so much more well rounded.

As I said, i still haven't got any info backing up people thinking the engineer is great. The majority of players say the same thing, the class needs major work and love. some traits are still broken, bugs all over the place etc, etc.

The class feels rushed and cluster *ed with no real thought put towards them.

#10 ZCKS

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 01:00 AM

Egineers are very flexable & can excell at support roles.

That being said their damage potential at anything other then AOE does tend to lag behind most other professions by quite a bit.


Other then that the only real problem I would say engineers have is that there is absolutely no incentive to use equipped weapons instead of a kit & when you use a kit you loose out on any stats/sigils your equiped weapon has.

If I could there would be a few changes I would implement for engineers.

1: (This one effects everyone) Make it so when using a bundle the player still has the effects of the stats/sigils in their main weapon(s)

2: Create a toggle utility with a low-moderate cool down that gives the rifle & pistols 2 different actions bars. One mode would cause the rifle to act like an actual rifle having long range & slow precise "high" direct damage abilities.
The other would make it like a shotgun with lots of control, AOE & condition damage.
The pistols would be handled in a similar fasion.


After that and some scaling tweaks engineers would be fine for damage roles & be a bit more flexable in that using your regular weapons would be a viable choice.

Edited by ZCKS, 25 November 2012 - 01:12 AM.


#11 Little Bird

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 01:08 AM

I'll admit I still haven't quite figured the Engineer out but I know I am getting better. I was going to give up until I watched my friend who is also an Engineer dominate a dungeon. We often bring three engineers with us to dungeons for the sheer control they can give a party. I can't count how many times I've pulled people out of the fire - how I've controlled a mob long enough to give other members time to do their particular thing.

I've got it to a point where people like having me come with them for the strong support and they can always count on me to get them off the floor.

Yes OP. My engineer is not an elementalist or a guardian but he's not chopped liver either. Can the class use some tweaks (please fix the turrets!) yes, but as-is they are valuable and interesting and a dynamic part of any party.

Edited by Little Bird, 25 November 2012 - 01:09 AM.


#12 ZCKS

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:43 AM

View PostLittle Bird, on 25 November 2012 - 01:08 AM, said:

(please fix the turrets!)

That is something that I really wish they would do as well.

The way I see it they could do this by adding 2 effects to turrets at base.

1: Make it so that when a turret is killed the CD is reduced (this would make it so that people/NPC's could no longer completely neuter a turret enginers usefulness by constantly killing turrets)

2: Reduce all ground target AOE damage to turrets by 30% (note this would not stack with the trait that reduces all damage done to turrets by 30%)

#13 NatasMC

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:37 AM

All class need tweaks and fix just saying, all class have useless traits its not only engineer that suffer from that problem.

#14 ZCKS

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:36 AM

View PostNatasMC, on 25 November 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

All class need tweaks and fix just saying, all class have useless traits its not only engineer that suffer from that problem.

This ^ so so much.

I cant speak for every class but on my guardian at the very least half the traits either have scaling that completely sucks, need to be completely reworked or just plain need to be replaced with something else.

#15 Desert Rose

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:57 PM

The Grenade Kit deals very good damage; something I've written in another thread:

Quote

Grenade deals 163 base damage per grenade, with the [Grenadier] trait you throw 3 of them, so it’s 489 base damage. You can use Grenade approximately every second, so it’s 489 base DPS.
For comparison the Guardian’s Greatsword chain deals in total 1035 base damage. I’ve read that one chain takes 2.1 seconds to complete so it would be 493 base DPS.

Iirc Kit weapon damage is 9XX while Greatsword weapon damage is 1000+ so the gap is a little bit bigger but still that very good for an attack that can be used from up to 1500 range.

For comparison Long Range Shot (Ranger’s Longbow auto attack) deals 317 base damage from max range and can be used every 1.25 seconds so it’s 253,6 base DPS.


#16 coglin

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:17 AM

View PostBloodtau, on 25 November 2012 - 12:35 AM, said:

No, it's not. Been playing this class since the first ever beta and it's NEVER lived up to the other classes.

It's damage output is shockingly bad compared to the other classes, it's team support is in the same boat, control is bad, etc etc.

Yeah yeah, the typical argument "but this class can do everything!" yeah, but it does them all so bad compared to other classes. Want condition? Play necro, want aoe? play ele, want burst (lol, burst on an engineer) go warrior or theif, team support role? might as well role a mesmer.


Honestly, those of you that think the class is a shining beacon, explain how.

I want to love the class, I really do. I'm having a ton more fun on my alts now though. Will probably never go back to my engineer. Seems like old engineer players I take to say the same thing. The profession is becoming less and less played
A shining beacon, no. A great and solid class yes. I have engineer, warrior, thief, mesmer to 80. I have ranger, elementalist, guardian, necro to 50+....In my opinion, engineers are on par with all but warrior. Engineers are better then rangers and elementalist by far.

So I don't know what class the OP as leveled, but I know what I have, and my experience tells me he is full of it

#17 Knuckle Joe

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:10 AM

I really don't understand why you say engineers are bad.

Grenade kit and bomb kit have awesome DPS. Traited grenades SPAM vulnerability

Control is bad you say? How come? Last time i checked, Engineers had:

Pistol: Glue shot
Rifle: Net shot, Overcharged shot
Flamethrower: That blow away thing
Grenades: Freeze grenade, Flash Grenade
Bombs: Glue bomb, Smoke Bomb, Big O'l Bomb
Tool kit: Box o'nails
Elixir gun: That bouncing crippling shot.

The hell you are talking about, Engi is THE class for CC. Unless you are not talking aboud CC when you say control.

Edited by Knuckle Joe, 26 November 2012 - 03:11 AM.


#18 Cures

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:47 AM

View PostBloodtau, on 24 November 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Now i'm not asking for anything flashy, I would just like the class to be on par with the other classes. It's pretty much the least played class now, for a reason. The whole class just sucks balls

First: you arent asking anything. dont pretend you have a question when you clearly dont have one.

Second: most of us play engies BECAUSE people like you CANT play engies ;)

And third - i know a lot of good engineer players, none of them has to hide in a group-pve nor in a pvp situation compared to ANY other class. Now go and roll the class most people are rolling this month, because they must be right, not?

#19 Aoko

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:27 AM

Really.. what the hell is wrong with some people. I have a Mesmer, Necro, Warrior, Guardian, Thief and Ranger at 80 and an Engineer and Elementalist at 50:ish.

I can definitely tell you that an Engineer is only weak when the player playing it is wearing gear far below it's level or trying to use a Power/Prec/Crit Dmg build with a Pistol or trying to use the Shotgun moves on rifle from range.

#20 B3aT

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:42 AM

good at what ? for what ?

Unfortunately I`ve put my eng aside because I wanted more support/control and moved to guardian, but still eng is the ace of all trades but doesnt excell at anything, needs more love in one direction..any. Is good but not best.

#21 draxynnic

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:28 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 25 November 2012 - 12:35 AM, said:

I want to love the class, I really do. I'm having a ton more fun on my alts now though. Will probably never go back to my engineer. Seems like old engineer players I take to say the same thing. The profession is becoming less and less played
Ironically, this is close to how I feel about elementalists... while it's the engineer that's taken its place. Tougher, less fiddly, more control, less locked into a weapon, and with Elixir Gun and Kit Refinement you can have a healing light field down pretty much permanently without even considering what other support (med kit, thrown elixirs) you might bring to the table.

And while the engineer may be less popular than some classes, I for one am always glad to see someone else rock up with an engineer - I've seen players of other professions that didn't contribute or even made things worse, but I don't recall seeing an engineer that didn't pull their weight.

Edited by draxynnic, 27 November 2012 - 01:34 PM.

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#22 Mr.Kotte

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:37 PM

View PostAoko, on 27 November 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

I can definitely tell you that an Engineer is only weak when the player playing it is wearing gear far below it's level or trying to use a Power/Prec/Crit Dmg build with a Pistol or trying to use the Shotgun moves on rifle from range.
Nooooo, use the Coated Bullets trait and you're doing fine damage :). Especially in orr.

@OP Please enlighten us on what builds and gear you've been running. Maybe we can help you see the engineer from a different perspective!

I for one learned as late as yesterday that Tool Kit acctually can be used for real and that its got pretty sick damage. I've yet to find a fun bomb build and I utterly hate the grenadier build (too much spam for me ;) ) so for dungeons I'm currently running rifle/elixir gun for big single target damage, good cc and party heal. I've also never been a fan of the Flamethrowers "Miss Miss Miss" so I try not to use it, even tho it looks badass.

#23 Bloodtau

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:40 PM

View PostCures, on 26 November 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

First: you arent asking anything. dont pretend you have a question when you clearly dont have one.

Second: most of us play engies BECAUSE people like you CANT play engies ;)

And third - i know a lot of good engineer players, none of them has to hide in a group-pve nor in a pvp situation compared to ANY other class. Now go and roll the class most people are rolling this month, because they must be right, not?

Once again, another post saying they are good but not actually stating what's good about them.
Face it, the class is bad and people playing it just want it to be good....

#24 ghostpants

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:07 PM

View PostB3aT, on 27 November 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

but still eng is the ace of all trades but doesnt excell at anything, needs more love in one direction..any. Is good but not best.

Being an ace implies you are the best.  Anyway, though the engineer seems to be decent at everything, I enjoy this about the class because I can find a number of ways to play it.

#25 coglin

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:09 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 27 November 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

Once again, another post saying they are good but not actually stating what's good about them.
Face it, the class is bad and people playing it just want it to be good....
Kind of stupid of you to say due to the fact that you haven't listed one legitimate reason they are bad. A very indicative trait of a poor player blaming the class simply because e lacks the skill or ability to play it.

#26 Warmaster Bacon

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:08 AM

I actually hit harder then my warrior with my engineer. There is a noticeable drop in our groups DPS when I stop attack. Support is somewhat questionable, but we can remove quite a few conditions, and in dungeons that is extremely helpful. We can also give the party regen, and we can create any type of combo field with the right kits. I will admit control is lacking so far (or maybe its just me) but for support and damage engineer is great.

#27 Caffeine3194

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:11 AM

I actually enjoy my engineer in WvW. Rifle/grenades glass-cannon is great for wiping large groups of enemies at a gate or trying to portal bomb you.  Speedy Kits and Med Kit gets me permanent 33% run-speed boost for moving around, running supply and catching people trying to run away.  However, there are a ton of bugs (See: http://wiki.guildwar...f_Engineer_bugs ) that need to be fixed still.  This applies to just about every class though.

#28 B3aT

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:22 AM

Another thing that most of players don't know is that the Engineer has the most combo fields (and lots of finishers too)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo

Yes, more the the elementalist :) (6 vs 5 fields), true the fields are not all so "accesible" all the time like the elem, we need to occupy some utility slots too to make them.

#29 Gilles VI

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:27 AM

Least player =/= subpar..

I love to have an engineer (or multiple) in every dungeon/fractal run I do..
And when soloing as a engineer just use some kits. :)

#30 Ronule

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:41 AM

While I'm sure that you are trolling, I'll post this on the off chance that I am wrong.

You have come and laid a claim on the table; and as of yet, have not shown evidence for said claim.  So before you go demanding people show proof that the class is viable, perhaps you should give examples as to why, in your words, "the whole class just sucks balls."

Might I recommend downloading Fraps or Bandicam (if you do not have them already) and posting a video showing us that it is the class, rather than yourself, that is inadequate.




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