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GW2 and the Trinity

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#241 omar316

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:30 PM

View PostHeart Collector, on 13 December 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

E.g. if instead of a simple "1" basic auto targeting attack, we had both quick and powerful attacks bound to either mouse button that we needed to aim properly to hit. Also, active blocking, which could work for quick attacks but powerful attacks would break and you would need to dodge these. And there could be combos, e.g. quick-quick-powerful could yield a different result to, say, quick-powerful-quick.

Just my opinion on the matter.

Good observation. But like many mentioned, they did away with a system and tried to reinvent the wheel. Unfortunately things aren't very interesting.

#242 Segraine

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:46 PM

View Postwhodini, on 13 December 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

First. I would like to say my mez can handle things just fine in Orr. Whoever said that don't know anything about them. I solo my mez all the time around there.
   My main was a war and the. Trinity was dead long ago with nec-resto and Rita. Got to the point where ppl. Forgot how to let the tank do the job. Rits would run in and steal all the aggro and ppl would die because they brang all the damage to backline. First to get hit would be the monk. That drove me mad. When that would happen I would emote "sit" and watch everything fly past me.
   As for gw2 I wish there would be some line to who does the heal. If I throw up null field and someone else is triggering some other party condition removal then both skills are counter productive. Gw2 is far better than 1 but I believe there should be better ways of letting players know what others are doing

As a monk and a restore rit I enjoyed those situations (although I also tried not to cause them). I built my characters to have more health than most pug warriors to make the AI ignore me for the most part. Many warriors I would run with would backline the scattering party while I tried to get the aggro under control with them. It was a blast! I found it more engaging than the way combat is in GW2. GW2 is just boring for me since things like this don't really happen.

But everyone finds different things enjoyable. I enjoy healing/protecting and find damage extremely boring. Hence why I am bored in GW2.

#243 whodini

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:58 PM

I find gw2 enjoying myself and do think anet is headed in a good direction for my taste. Not every game is going to suit everyone's likes 100%. We are talking about tanking being implemented. As a gw1 full time war seeing the changes at the end of 1st Gw with AI behavior.  The only way a war can do the job was if everyone stayed away from wars bubble. They changed the aggro so drastic that outside the bubble meant not even close to it in hm. They were trying to get rid of tanks then. Adding other means. Allowing cons which I tried never using for the satisfaction of doing it without a handicap.  With cons and mm, rits ect ..that's the way ppl chose. I countered by gearing for less damage intake and ran less health than most wars.  I felt it enticed AI to attack me more. Most didn't realize if I survived the first spike I then was fine. That is what tanking was about in the end. Getting them to use there spike to set up for the parties counter move. It was an organized play style. With that said I don't feel the need for Trinity.  I do believe the more we play the more we learn and the more anet can corespond to the way ppl play the game as to what the game needs and don't need
Ir

#244 Dasryn

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:56 AM

View PostSegraine, on 13 December 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

I enjoy healing/protecting and find damage extremely boring. Hence why I am bored in GW2.

same here.  i dont enjoy dpsing anymore.  i did it for a long time in wow and i just got burned out of always trying to out dps everyone else.  it gets redundant.  and i hate competition.  like i dont like hte attitudes it breeds and lets be honest, people get competitive.

so im support in GW2.  heavy support.  dungeon build.  like, hard- to- solo- im- so- heavy- support -dungeon build.

but then im getting one shot to death, or my team mates are and i go or they go to revive and then they get one shot. . . im like really?  

i ran into a hiccup today in AC exp path 3 and i jokingly made the comment: "looks like this one is going to be a high repair bill"

and do you know what someone replied?

"every dungeon repair bill is a high repair bill"

im like, WHAT?!?! its a joke now?!?!  like people are inside joking about how ridiculous dungeon runs can be in GW2?!?!?!

pathetic.  disgusting.  pitiful.  revolting.

ANet, if you arent going to bring back the trinity, then do something, cuz this current system is just a joke in every sense of the phrase. like literally a joke.

Edited by Rickter, 14 December 2012 - 03:57 AM.


#245 Segraine

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:27 PM

I ran a very heavy ranger support build. It takes me FOREVER to kill anything. Although I've had some "monk" moments when my Moas and Healing Spring all synced up for a nice fill-the-screen-with-green-numbers moment and saved several players from being downed. It is an unfortunately rare feeling though.

However, I find support rather pointless like you have, Rickter. All of the one shots just isn't fun. It annoyed me in GW1 how Protective Spirit was a requirement for Hard Mode play, but at least GW1 had that option to reduce the incoming damage. Until we have a viable protection monk replacement, I won't find GW2 that much fun. I've tried the Guardian, but I don't like melee classes. I tried hard to enjoy the Guardian or Water Ele too. There just isn't a class that fits me as a pure support lover.

#246 elmprotector

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:45 PM

View PostRickter, on 14 December 2012 - 03:56 AM, said:

same here.  i dont enjoy dpsing anymore.  i did it for a long time in wow and i just got burned out of always trying to out dps everyone else.  it gets redundant.  and i hate competition.  like i dont like hte attitudes it breeds and lets be honest, people get competitive.

so im support in GW2.  heavy support.  dungeon build.  like, hard- to- solo- im- so- heavy- support -dungeon build.

but then im getting one shot to death, or my team mates are and i go or they go to revive and then they get one shot. . . im like really?  

i ran into a hiccup today in AC exp path 3 and i jokingly made the comment: "looks like this one is going to be a high repair bill"

and do you know what someone replied?

"every dungeon repair bill is a high repair bill"

im like, WHAT?!?! its a joke now?!?!  like people are inside joking about how ridiculous dungeon runs can be in GW2?!?!?!

pathetic.  disgusting.  pitiful.  revolting.

ANet, if you arent going to bring back the trinity, then do something, cuz this current system is just a joke in every sense of the phrase. like literally a joke.

This is a hybrid game.  Going full support you are gimping your group.  Do both support and dps.  Get a build where you can do multiple roles by changing out the skills in the same spec.  Have every weapon available.. yes your heard me right I have as a casual (max every craft) 1 of every weapon a guardian can use exotic!  Some fights in 5 mans are dps races.... some need more aoe heals or sheild.  Change up as needed.  Some are just 10x easier if everyone is range.

My current spec can be full 1h awsomeness with 15% crit.. or 1 change and I am now using signet of judgement with perfect inscriptions and running with 20% full time damage reduction from just that one signet!  Dont need the damage reduction.. then move to a more dps orientated set up.  But most of the time I run with aoe shouts with a 20% reduction in time on them.

Heck one change in my setup and I have 20% reduction with 2h weapons.  for those times you need the pure dps of a greatsword.. sword/torch combo.  Or my favorite in wvw staff... scepter/torch for door protection.. lol so much aoe that goes thru doors with that.

People have it backwards... trinity is face roll.  Tank keeps agro.. healer sits in rear and heals dps spams the rotation.  GW2 a good player is dodging when needed and using cooldown abilities at the right times not just spamming them.  Good player is switching weapons constantly to keep protection/dps/healing abilities all the time instead of using 1 weapon and waiting for its cooldowns to come up.

But most of the trinity lovers are to dense to see how trinity is face roll and well played 5 man gw2 style takes more skill esp reactionary skill for dodge and other abilities.  If someone wants to go back to tank spamming taunt.. healer spamming heal (and the best healer changes as the devs buff/nerf healing for every class because the devs are trying to balance it) and the rest just using the same dps rotation every other player who plays that class does (becasue if you dont and are 3% off the dps there damage meters are reading for you then you get reamed)

Trinity is the old girlfriend you remember as being that great girl when in fact when you take a real look at her with no nostalgia you see the girl for the ugly/sqeeky annoying voice  that she really is.

So to end it... go back to wow or rift and play your trinity/raids/gear treadmill and let the rest of us enjoy the game arenanet made and made sure that everyone knew what they were making before releasing.  So if you dont like the play style.. why did you buy the game? And why are you still here they said flat out.. no trinity.

View PostSegraine, on 14 December 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

I ran a very heavy ranger support build. It takes me FOREVER to kill anything. Although I've had some "monk" moments when my Moas and Healing Spring all synced up for a nice fill-the-screen-with-green-numbers moment and saved several players from being downed. It is an unfortunately rare feeling though.

However, I find support rather pointless like you have, Rickter. All of the one shots just isn't fun. It annoyed me in GW1 how Protective Spirit was a requirement for Hard Mode play, but at least GW1 had that option to reduce the incoming damage. Until we have a viable protection monk replacement, I won't find GW2 that much fun. I've tried the Guardian, but I don't like melee classes. I tried hard to enjoy the Guardian or Water Ele too. There just isn't a class that fits me as a pure support lover.

Guardians can do support well while doing dps with all the Protection (33% damage reduction) they can keep up for there group.  Add in the aoe might on crit and your upping the whole teams dps.

#247 Dasryn

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:59 PM

View Postelmprotector, on 14 December 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

Trinity is the old girlfriend you remember as being that great girl when in fact when you take a real look at her with no nostalgia you see the girl for the ugly/sqeeky annoying voice  that she really is.

nah, everyone was fine with trinity, they didnt love it, but they were very much fine with it.  and if everyone enjoyed gw2 playstyle, then i wouldnt have had this 9 page thread.

#248 elmprotector

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:24 AM

View PostRickter, on 14 December 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

nah, everyone was fine with trinity, they didnt love it, but they were very much fine with it.  and if everyone enjoyed gw2 playstyle, then i wouldnt have had this 9 page thread.

I can tell you never managed a company or a area for a company.  The people you hear from are the complainers.  The majority who like your product have no reason to go and complain like children on a message board.

Just like hard core raiders.  Multiple studies have been done and they only make up 10% of the population of MMO's.  But if you read message boards you would think they are 80%+.  You and the rest of the people who come here to whine and tell Arenanet how to change their game to what you want and not what they said they were making are just the super loud voices that people see.  

The vast majority love the game and dont come here to explain to you all that everything you complain about was told to you so many times its not funny BEFORE THE GAME WAS RELEASED!  But like I said earlier... you act like 7 year old kids who didnt get what they wanted from their parents so they keep asking over and over again still getting the same NO answer till the parent just blocks them out and ignores them.

Arenanet doesnt care about your complaints.  Go over to the official boards and spam all these "I WANTS" and see how long they stay up.  You dont see the people over there acting like you because arenanet will just erase the posts and ban the people from the boards.  

ArenaNet is the first game to get it.  Casuals are much easier to keep happy,  they have real lives outside the game so they have more disposable income to spend in the shop, they want to play a fun game that takes skill not time = power.  I play with people everyday who love how well they did at making a fun game.  And I do tons of pugs and guild runs with 1-3 outsiders in group.  Never seen people complain like you all do here.. and I am on one of the FULL servers.

Your part of the vocal minority and arenanet doesnt care... because if they did they wouldnt just erase every whine thread you make on the offical boards and if you do it to much block your ability to post on those boards.

#249 Majic

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:01 AM

The biggest problem with the Holy Trinity was being locked into it once you picked a class. The second biggest was the fact that a good Tank/Healer/DPS trio could carry most raids on their own, with everyone else either cleaning up trash or on /follow.

The ArenaNet DCS trinity is less rigidly defined, which means less cookie-cutter in format, and that in turn makes coordinating groups less of a by-the-numbers proposition. However, skilled players of any profession can still handle most content, simply by being good at playing the game. It's not as easy as the Trinity, but it's a lot more liberating and opens up entirely new ways of playing as groups.

I think that's a good thing.

#250 Ghostwing

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:43 AM

View PostRickter, on 14 December 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

nah, everyone was fine with trinity, they didnt love it, but they were very much fine with it.  and if everyone enjoyed gw2 playstyle, then i wouldnt have had this 9 page thread.

I wasn't. When I was playing WoW I kept thinking "This would be so much better if they took out the tank mechanic," and in pvp I'd think "This would be so much better if they found a way so we don't spend 80% of our time chasing and stunning healers."

As far as having high dungeon repair bills, I guess it depends on the dungeon. AC certainly isn't one of them...mebbe because I've been running dungeons for so long.

Edited by Ghostwing, 15 December 2012 - 01:45 AM.


#251 Dasryn

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:19 AM

View Postelmprotector, on 15 December 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

I can tell you never managed a company or a area for a company.  The people you hear from are the complainers.  The majority who like your product have no reason to go and complain like children on a message board.

i can tell you never read the OP.  i never said to make the trinity mandatory in GW2.  i just wanted the elements to be there for people that wanted to play that way.  that way both sides are happy.

#252 elmprotector

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:26 PM

View PostRickter, on 15 December 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

i can tell you never read the OP.  i never said to make the trinity mandatory in GW2.  i just wanted the elements to be there for people that wanted to play that way.  that way both sides are happy.

sorry but that is impossible.  they would have to have 2 IA scripts to do that.  Mobs would have to act differently with that.  They said trinity was dead in this game!  live with it why keep asking for stuff?

#253 Dasryn

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:59 AM

View Postelmprotector, on 15 December 2012 - 11:26 PM, said:

sorry but that is impossible.  they would have to have 2 IA scripts to do that.  Mobs would have to act differently with that.  They said trinity was dead in this game!  live with it why keep asking for stuff?

can you calm down?  its been like a whole 24 hours since i posted that, no need to get all hot and bothered. . . .

sheesh, its cool man, its cool, we're just discussing whether or not the removal of the trinity was a wise decision.  ok?  its a discussion.  i know damn well nothing is going to come of my little thread in little ol' guru community website.

if you cant keep it in your pants, dont bother posting anything at all ok?

Edited by Rickter, 16 December 2012 - 12:59 AM.


#254 Arquenya

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:19 AM

View PostMajic, on 15 December 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

The biggest problem with the Holy Trinity was being locked into it once you picked a class. The second biggest was the fact that a good Tank/Healer/DPS trio could carry most raids on their own, with everyone else either cleaning up trash or on /follow.

The ArenaNet DCS trinity is less rigidly defined, which means less cookie-cutter in format, and that in turn makes coordinating groups less of a by-the-numbers proposition. However, skilled players of any profession can still handle most content, simply by being good at playing the game. It's not as easy as the Trinity, but it's a lot more liberating and opens up entirely new ways of playing as groups.

I think that's a good thing.
Not sure if I posted this before but I'm not per sé against "the trinity".

What is against the trinity as we knew it was:
  • only a few classes able to fulfill certain roles;
  • those classes expected to be geared and specced into 1 role
  • game designed around the trinity, not possible to complete content without
  • as a consequence: LF  tank/healer for extended amounts of time.
What I though ANet would recolutionairy do in GW2 was:
  • enable all classes to be flexible and fulfill different roles

Instead most classes have one or a few very limited, long cooldown skills (except guardians). The consequence is that content is made to avoid damage and the introduction of the "down" state where everyone resurrects each other. The dungeons are littered with "red circle" carpets. There´s hardly teamwork because it´s basically 5 individuals playing and not a team.

I'm not so sure that I really like the consequences of "everyone DPS and self-heal".

#255 sanctuaire

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:28 AM

if that was anet's intentions, then perhaps they should take a look at the support roles and skills every class
can play here in gw2.

multiple "LFG, war/guards only" posted in LA are very real and shows how balancing for dungeons have a far
ways to go.

.

#256 Arquenya

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:34 AM

View Postsanctuaire, on 16 December 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

if that was anet's intentions, then perhaps they should take a look at the support roles and skills every class
can play here in gw2.

multiple "LFG, war/guards only" posted in LA are very real and shows how balancing for dungeons have a far
ways to go.
Yesterday I did CM with a pug - 5 guardians! :) :D

I can tell you it's a funny experience (we still wiped because we got very reckless in the end). Guardians, they're really the only real support class in GW2. I see more and more people playing them and players are always happy to have one on the team. And yes, the synergy between warriors and guardians is perhaps a bit too good atm.

Edited by Arquenya, 16 December 2012 - 03:40 AM.


#257 Dasryn

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:46 AM

View PostArquenya, on 16 December 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

Yesterday I did CM with a pug - 5 guardians! :) :D

I can tell you it's a funny experience (we still wiped because we got very reckless in the end). Guardians, they're really the only real support class in GW2. I see more and more people playing them and players are always happy to have one on the team. And yes, the synergy between warriors and guardians is perhaps a bit too good atm.

the fear is, that they might nerf guardians, but instead they need to buff other classes for the same utility and survivability

#258 omar316

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:17 AM

View Postelmprotector, on 15 December 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

I can tell you never managed a company or a area for a company.  The people you hear from are the complainers.  The majority who like your product have no reason to go and complain like children on a message board.

Just like hard core raiders.  Multiple studies have been done and they only make up 10% of the population of MMO's.  But if you read message boards you would think they are 80%+.  You and the rest of the people who come here to whine and tell Arenanet how to change their game to what you want and not what they said they were making are just the super loud voices that people see.  

The vast majority love the game and dont come here to explain to you all that everything you complain about was told to you so many times its not funny BEFORE THE GAME WAS RELEASED!  But like I said earlier... you act like 7 year old kids who didnt get what they wanted from their parents so they keep asking over and over again still getting the same NO answer till the parent just blocks them out and ignores them.

Arenanet doesnt care about your complaints.  Go over to the official boards and spam all these "I WANTS" and see how long they stay up.  You dont see the people over there acting like you because arenanet will just erase the posts and ban the people from the boards.  

ArenaNet is the first game to get it.  Casuals are much easier to keep happy,  they have real lives outside the game so they have more disposable income to spend in the shop, they want to play a fun game that takes skill not time = power.  I play with people everyday who love how well they did at making a fun game.  And I do tons of pugs and guild runs with 1-3 outsiders in group.  Never seen people complain like you all do here.. and I am on one of the FULL servers.

Your part of the vocal minority and arenanet doesnt care... because if they did they wouldnt just erase every whine thread you make on the offical boards and if you do it to much block your ability to post on those boards.

I can tell you have never played a good game with well thought out mechanics to keep the trinity involved.

Much of your arguments hold no water either.
While I would like to destroy your post, I am going to refrain from saying anything, as I will receive a reply from a 7 year old.

The only truth you really posted :

Quote

Arenanet doesnt care about your complaints.  Go over to the official boards and spam all these "I WANTS" and see how long they stay up.  You dont see the people over there acting like you because arenanet will just erase the posts and ban the people from the boards.


#259 Trei

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:58 AM

View PostArquenya, on 16 December 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

I'm not so sure that I really like the consequences of "everyone DPS and self-heal".
I think you left out a lot there.

Everyone dps, everyone self heal, everyone also do alot of other things depending on how each of our builds and play styles lean towards.

All the soft skills we picked up in trinity based combat are still very much relevant here.


#260 elmprotector

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:40 AM

View Postomar316, on 17 December 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

I can tell you have never played a good game with well thought out mechanics to keep the trinity involved.

Much of your arguments hold no water either.
While I would like to destroy your post, I am going to refrain from saying anything, as I will receive a reply from a 7 year old.

The only truth you really posted :


LOL just because you dont like what I have to say you call it childish?  I informed again what Arenanet said over and over and over again before release.  The childish ones are the ones who bought a game and either didnt read/watch/listen to dev inteview or did and made the choice to ignore them and buy the game anyway.

Anyone asking for Raids/Gear treadmill/trinity now are just showing they didnt investigate the game before they bought it... or are now being blowhards whining for stuff that Arenanet said flat out NO TOO.

But yeah act like that little boy trying to play with the big boys...

#261 beadnbutter32

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:22 AM

The trinity, or role based combat is replaced in GW2 with twitch based combat.

Your never going to sway all the Anet fan boys and girls that the trinity has merits.  They love their twitch game, however that is not what many of us look for in an MMORPG.

PUGS have a terrible reputation in GW2 for the simple reason that you never know what role, if any, your teammates will choose to play, so every PUG dungeon run is an exercise is blind terror the first few encounters as you learn which of your teammates is capable of twitching fast enough.

How good you are at surviving boils down to one skill, reading tells and being fast enough to avoid the following attack.  Everything else is just icing on the cake.  Some people are very good at this, but most are not, so PUGs tend to be a comedy of errors, interspersed with breaks to kick people who don't twitch fast enough.

Instead of playing wack a mole with health bars,  in GW@ you play wack a mole with cool downs.

I loved the trinity in all the MMO's I have played.  If I was new and having a hard time finding friends, I could role a healer and be in high demand and make lots of new friends.  If I wanted to let out allot of aggression I could run my DD toon, and deal huge damage while a tank soaked up the mob damage and a healer made it all possible.  I feeling like a control freak, I could run my CC specialist and force mobs to fight on my terms not theirs.

The whole argument about 'can't run the dungeon because we can't find a tank or healer is moot.  That is simply a symptom where the underlying problem is the games population has crashed at that point in time.  Happens in every game at certain times of the day or night, you simply cannot fill out 6 people who want to play the same dungeon at the same time.  The number of available healers and tanks tends to adjust to market demands.  When there appears to be a shortage of healers, people will start to roll or bring out their healers to take advantage of this etc.  

It is just tons of fun refining a particular role, and building a reputation as a good healer or tank, or CC person.  With GW2 everyone has to excel at only one skill, reading tells and dodging.  Your either good or not, end of story.

Face it combat in GW2 is a twitch game.  It has more in common with Mortal Kombat than any MMORPG.    Everything else, the spells, the weapons, the conditions etc. have very little to do with survival.  So if you are not a good twitch player, you basically suck at GW2 and there is no role for you to play other than dead guy that gets kicked and blackballed.

I am not very good at twitch gaming so I loved healers and tanks.  
The skills involved with doing those well had to do with knowing what to do and how to do it and did not depend on lots of micro-second twitching around.

I like the lore of the how and why of tanking and healing.  It all made perfect sense to me and fits right in with the classic D and D theme.

With GW2 its just 6 players who can twitch really fast.

#262 Dasryn

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:27 AM

hey guys, i just joined a guild - these guys are a pretty hardcore group that have run all the content GW2 has to offer and the Guild Lead is a tank, straight up, he's a tank, and his girlfriend is a full time healer.

it is definitely possible to tank and heal in this game.  believe what you want but its the truth and ive seen this in action, its made me want to role a tank even more.

this is the build he is running:

http://gw2skills.net...scZJzahxIidBzPA

#263 Ghostwing

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:49 AM

View PostRickter, on 18 December 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

hey guys, i just joined a guild - these guys are a pretty hardcore group that have run all the content GW2 has to offer and the Guild Lead is a tank, straight up, he's a tank, and his girlfriend is a full time healer.

it is definitely possible to tank and heal in this game.  believe what you want but its the truth and ive seen this in action, its made me want to role a tank even more.

this is the build he is running:

http://gw2skills.net...scZJzahxIidBzPA

I'm glad you found a guild and playstyle you enjoy.

I'm also glad to nitpick. That guardian is heavily armored and has a lot of defensive skills and probably a lot of health. That is not a "tank" in the trinity sense. He has no "taunts" and no aggro control mechanics. If the boss runs off and slags your mesmer it's not his fault. Whereas in WoW, that would totally be the tank's fault for not being able to maintain aggro. That is the essence of a tank. Aggro control.

I have played with guardians where we were able to stack up and just melee a boss to death because of all the crazy boons and such.

Edited by Ghostwing, 18 December 2012 - 02:55 AM.


#264 Bloodtau

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:55 AM

Trinity works. It's been around much longer than MMO's for a reason, it works. Even RPG's (the proper kind, not the game kind) has some kind of class trinity to it.

Getting rid of it was a step in the WRONG direction. It's taken the fun OUT of stuff and not put anything else in it's place. People knew their role, people played their role to their best ability. GW2 is mostly players running random builds and wondering why they are sucking

#265 Dasryn

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:01 AM

View PostBloodtau, on 18 December 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

Trinity works. It's been around much longer than MMO's for a reason, it works. Even RPG's (the proper kind, not the game kind) has some kind of class trinity to it.

Getting rid of it was a step in the WRONG direction. It's taken the fun OUT of stuff and not put anything else in it's place. People knew their role, people played their role to their best ability. GW2 is mostly players running random builds and wondering why they are sucking

man id have to agree, no one really knows if their spec is good or not, you just find something that looks like it makes sense and then you post it on guru hoping the community agrees.  but its whatever, im giving sword/shield one last chance and if i cant maintain the same survivability that i had with the mace im laying my blade down.

#266 Bloodtau

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:04 AM

Also, does anyone get the feeling like, they were going to have a  trinity but scrapped it and forgot to take the items out?
I mean, how many of you actually take healing as a stat on your armour? How many of you take the healing sigils on your weapons?

#267 Trei

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:05 AM

View PostBloodtau, on 18 December 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

Trinity works... ... ... People knew their role, people played their role to their best ability. GW2 is mostly players running random builds and wondering why they are sucking
People ran random builds and wonder they were sucking in trinity based games too.

I also met people in GW2 who defined their own prefered role to suit each encounter, communicated it clear enough amongst the group and played them to the best ability while ever ready to take on another role if needed.

There is no correlation here.

#268 Ghostwing

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:22 AM

View PostTrei, on 18 December 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

People ran random builds and wonder they were sucking in trinity based games too.

I also met people in GW2 who defined their own prefered role to suit each encounter, communicated it clear enough amongst the group and played them to the best ability while ever ready to take on another role if needed.

There is no correlation here.

Well the traditional MMO trinity can be objectively number-crunched for the most part. People can't blame it on their builds since everyone can just look up elitistjerks.

In GW2 your explorable dungeon speed run build won't be optimal for a high level fractal group, etc etc. There are more variables in GW2 pve.

#269 Trei

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:54 AM

View PostGhostwing, on 18 December 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

...In GW2 your explorable dungeon speed run build won't be optimal for a high level fractal group, etc etc....
I think that's the whole point.

How do you deal with a situation you are not built optimal for?

Does Optimal = Fun?
Sometimes, not always.

I tend to find encounters more fun when things are not Optimal, when things go horribly wrong and yet we pull through, when a group of misfit professions and builds overcome the odds and perform beyond expectations.
These are the stories we tell others in time to come, what others tell of us, what "legends" are forged of.

There are no stories about how we ran a dungeon perfectly in 14 mins and 23 secs flat, new record. What's there to say about yet another routine run?
There is no better way to run it, the challenge is at its lowest.

Edited by Trei, 18 December 2012 - 03:56 AM.


#270 Stigma

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:07 AM

View PostProtoss, on 25 November 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Personally, I feel that the blandness of PvE stems from having foes with shitloads of XP, that take days to kill, while they kill you in one hit. I honestly do not see how including the trinity would change this.

I believe the root of the problem to the GW2 combat mechanic is the fact that there is no way of regenerating Stamina fast enough. Therefore, the whole "Skill based" gameplay is more of gimicky than we want. I don't care if a monster can one hit KO me, if I was given the ability or the possibility of dodging out of it using personal skill. The problem is there is no way of keeping up the stamina bar therefore you have cases where people are Downed so many times that players get frustrated and want the Trinity back for a tank or a healer...




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