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#1 Leon Da Firenze

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:15 AM

Hey everyone,

My sister and I have been playing a warrior and elementalist team for the last week and have reached the point where we need to start thinking about how we want to apply our traits and skill points from now on.

She is primarily dealing damage with a staff in fire mode and then switching over to water when I need healing. Her build is hopefully designed to maximize her damage output and relies on my warrior to keep the mobs off of her.

My job is to tank and keep the mobs off her. For this task I have chosen the hammer as it allows me some good crowd control skills and 2 aoe stuns. I also have a sword and axe combo that I will switch too when I need to deal some extra damage. I picked the sword and axe so that I can have the leap finish for fire aura and the whirl finish as well.

I'm having some trouble deciding which skill will be better off for tanking and crowd control. Someone told me mace shield was the best for tanking but it seems too limited to one foe for my taste. I have also had people recommend shout heal but I am kind of leaning towards banner regen.

I'll post links to the two builds we are using below. Please let me know what you all think.

Elementalist:
http://www.gw2db.com...|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

Warrior:
http://www.gw2db.com...|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

#2 Brand

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:52 AM

Going to help you out but rather than spam this thread, just going to PM you. So check your messages ^^

#3 Fittleluck

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:33 AM

View PostBrand, on 26 November 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

Going to help you out but rather than spam this thread, just going to PM you. So check your messages ^^

Begging for you to spam. I'd love to pick up more Warrior tips from you. :)

#4 Brand

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:22 AM

View PostFittleluck, on 26 November 2012 - 06:33 AM, said:

Begging for you to spam. I'd love to pick up more Warrior tips from you. :)
/gurgle
Ok but later, I am sleepy D:

Edit:
Well, I'll tell you what I've done so far.
He said his favorite weapon type was Sword/Axe, and his sister liked Staff and being a dps with fire.

I told him that there really isn't a way for him to be supporty with sword/axe, but he could run a variant VS build using Sword/Warhorn. He likes the swift agile playstyle of Sword/Axe due to his main being a ranger, so I figured Sword/Warhorn will do him just as good. Now all that's left for this guy is to figure out a build combination that will keep him and his sister alive in PvE, AND help out their team in a dungeon.

(As you can probably guess, making two builds that compliment each other is great, but if they work too well together than chances are you're hurting the rest of your team. The more points you put into supporting each other specifically, the less points you have for all around support of the group.)

Not to mention hammer can mess with his sisters AoEs (Damn you knockback!!!).

I also persuaded him that VS is better than IBS (Because it is)

So yeah, now I just need to get him the build and then we can work on his sisters (I'm no expert at elementalists though >.<)

Edited by Brand, 26 November 2012 - 08:39 AM.


#5 MrCats

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:55 AM

The most important thing is to learn all the possible combo fields you can get with the elementalist. You could then choose you're weapons from that and then go make a build from there. It's hard to just say one build or another perfectly matches with another build. Like professions themselves, professions working together have multiple possibilites. Just try not to step on each others toes and you'll be fine e.g. both stacking bleeds.

Edited by MrCats, 26 November 2012 - 09:55 AM.


#6 Leon Da Firenze

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:23 AM

I've been messing with my traits some more, and went to Heart of the Mists to test out a few ideas. I switched over to Shouts instead of Banners after seeing the numbers. Unfortunately, I didn't really like the warhorn that Brand recommended I try. Nothing about it quite felt right to me.

I'm trying to create this build to be able to deal damage and to take it. The warhorn just felt too much like I was on the sidelines.

I am thinking about making my two weapon sets be sword axe and perhaps mace shield.

The sword axe would let me quickly build up adrenaline using Whirling Axe and then lay down several stacks of bleed with my burst skill combined with 20 points in Arms. I also love Whirling Axe's long lasting combo with aoe fields.

I can then switch over to mace shield when facing off against tougher foes. I figure by specing 20 points into Defense to get me Shield Master and Adrenal Health, I should be able to greatly increase my survivability when in this weapon set.

I'll post the build below. Please let me know if I'm over reaching. I realize that it is hard to take and deal damage within one build but I'd like to give it a shot. I figure my sister's elementalist will be primarily in charge of dealing damage so I should focus on defense but I would still like to be able to switch over to offense when the situation isn't as dire.

http://www.gw2db.com...|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

Edited by Leon Da Firenze, 27 November 2012 - 12:23 AM.


#7 SpelignErrir

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:20 AM

View PostLeon Da Firenze, on 27 November 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

I've been messing with my traits some more, and went to Heart of the Mists to test out a few ideas. I switched over to Shouts instead of Banners after seeing the numbers. Unfortunately, I didn't really like the warhorn that Brand recommended I try. Nothing about it quite felt right to me.

I'm trying to create this build to be able to deal damage and to take it. The warhorn just felt too much like I was on the sidelines.

I am thinking about making my two weapon sets be sword axe and perhaps mace shield.

The sword axe would let me quickly build up adrenaline using Whirling Axe and then lay down several stacks of bleed with my burst skill combined with 20 points in Arms. I also love Whirling Axe's long lasting combo with aoe fields.

I can then switch over to mace shield when facing off against tougher foes. I figure by specing 20 points into Defense to get me Shield Master and Adrenal Health, I should be able to greatly increase my survivability when in this weapon set.

I'll post the build below. Please let me know if I'm over reaching. I realize that it is hard to take and deal damage within one build but I'd like to give it a shot. I figure my sister's elementalist will be primarily in charge of dealing damage so I should focus on defense but I would still like to be able to switch over to offense when the situation isn't as dire.

http://www.gw2db.com...|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

Ehhhh...warriors have better damage than elementalists. Your arrangement seems backward. The elementalist should be the supporter, the warrior the dps. I'd go with hammer if your sister likes using fire attunement, the cd on the fire combo field coupled with your blast finisher from the burst skill will help you stack might. If you use For Great Justice, you'll pretty much have 6-9 stacks of might constantly.

#8 MrCats

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:56 PM

Tell us which weapons you prefer and then we can go from there.

#9 Leon Da Firenze

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:22 PM

Alright. I've been experimenting in heart of the mists again. I tried out every weapon to decide what I liked the feel of. Here's the results.

Sword Main: I like all the bleeds it can apply which feels familiar with my ranger. I also enjoy Savage Leap's ability to close distance.
           Offhand: I do like that you can use Impale while closing distance on an enemy though the cool down is rather long.    
Hammer: I like it's ability to hit multiple foes but I find it to be rather slow and has no way to close a gap besides the burst skill.
Longbow: I like it's ability to hit multiple foes but burning stacks duration instead of intensity.
Axe Main: I like the ability to apply vulnerability and how quickly it hits but it has no way to quickly close a gap besides the burst skill.
         Off:I like how dual strikes quickly applies fury. I also like how you can follow that up with whirling strike to lay down several hits which have the possibility of being critical and all get the whirl combo.
Greatsword: Still feel a little slow after my ranger and not a fan of whirlwind attack or how slow of a charge rush is.
Mace Main: The last hit on the main chain is a little slow but I like the stuns and that you can block an attack though the counter doesn't hit for very much.
           Off: The cool downs seem to be too large to be worth it.
Rifle: Like the bleeds, cripple, vulnerability, and knockback. Not as sure about since it can only attack one opponent though.
Warhorn: Honestly not really a fan of this at all.
Shield: I enjoy the stun and the ability to become invincible for a few seconds when needed.

In summary, I guess in order of my favorites the would be Axe Off, Sword Main, Axe Main, Mace Main, Shield, and then rifle or longbow.

I hope this helps.

#10 MrCats

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:34 PM

You may enjoy sword/mace. I'm currently using it with a longbow as a sidearm but that's mainly due to the F1 ability, leap in, fire aura, knockdown with mace etc. With it, i get a really high crit with my gear but you could try the combination out if you like. Just a suggestion.

Axe/mace is also a good choice aswell due to the damage/control.

By the bulk of it though it seems as if you prefer the 1 handed weapons over the 2 handed ones. Different to see that. If you would like me to actually detail my build, let me know and ill explain it too you with the skills, traits and what not.

I'm going to go test a couple of things.

#11 Brand

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:40 AM

Your favorite weapons are Sword/Axe, but you aren't going to be a supportive tank with that weapon set. You can be survivable enough to PvE with your sister but you are certainly not going to be a brick wall.

I'd like to point out here that Whirlwind attack is a free dodge and powerful AoE, and that Rush is by no means a "Slow charge".

You might consider a Hammer/Longbow build that applies heavy boon support, great defenses, great heals, and would synergize greatly with your sisters Fire build. Tell me if you want to hear more about this type of build (It would make you a tank, you'd be weapon swapping a lot so the combat wouldn't feel so slow, you'd be helping your sister a ton and your group in a dungeon, and it would give you a way to close gaps with the Longbow)

#12 Leon Da Firenze

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:51 AM

I'd like to hear more about both of those builds you guys have mentioned.

I didn't realize that Whirlwind attack made you invulnerable. By slow charge I mean that It seems like you are traveling at a regular running speed or perhaps a little faster and is slow in comparison to leap skills.

#13 MrCats

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:01 AM

Here is the basic setup for mine.

http://gw2.luna-atra...f0kdte41l20212l

Main: Sword/Mace
Second: Longbow

Gear: Knight's Armour, Berserker Weapons and Berserker Accessories.

Sigils

Sword - Superior Sigil of Force - 5% damage increase
Mace - Superior Sigil of Blood - 30% chance to steal life on crit (2 second cooldown)

Longbow - Superior Sigil of Perception -  10 precision each time you kill a foe. (max 25 stacks and ends on down)

Spec - 10, 25, 15, 0, 20

Skills

Mending - Heal yourself and cure 2 conditions.

Shake it off - Cure a condition from yourself and allies, breaks stun.

For Great Justive - Grant fury (8 seconds) and Might (25 seconds) to you and nearby allies. Radius = 1200

Endure Pain - Take no damage from attacks for 5 seconds.

Signet of Rage - Passive: Grants adrenaline Active: Gain Fury, Might and Swiftness for 30 seconds.

Runes - Superior Runes of Rage

The 6 Runes give you +10% crit damage flat out, +15% with fury. +20% Fury duration. 5% chance to gain fury for 30s when hit. (cooldown: 60s)

Putting It Together

With my armour and accessories complied without the buffs i run around with a crit rate of 52% unbuffed. Add the 25 stack of perception, i get to around 62-63%. Add the 10% from the sword i am at 72-73%. Add fury you are now at 92-93% crit. With a full bar of adrenaline your crit is now over 100%. Each crit you have a 30% to drain life too. Fully buffed you will have a bonus of an extra 47% crit damage from the 150% base. Putting you close to 200% damage each time you crit. Pretty much a given when you have a couple stacks of might on you from the signet of rage and for great justice.

This means your crit is now absurd, you will almost crit every attack while buffed. With an exotic sword (With sigil of force), a full adrenaline bar and a bit of might your damage will around about be 1600, 1600, 3200 from auto attacks alone. This is 6400 damage within the space of 2 seconds if you include the first autoattack. You hit like a truck essentially while being mobile. Add around 500 damage to that if the life steal works from the sigil of blood.

My armour stands at 2692 as well which will keep you safe. In extreme cases pop endure pain, switch to longbow, fire your F1 ability, swap back to sword (Cooldown from switching is now 5 seconds) leap. Gain fire aura. Destroy everything around you.

The mace is also your damage tool via crushing blow (10 stacks of vulnerability) as well as a control tool, hence the knockdown of tremor.

With the cooldown reduction on the signet of rage and the enhanced length of fury you are near enough have a 100% fury uptime with for great justice.

So there you go, you are now a crit monster who steals health and hits like a truck with the mobility of the sword and the support of the bow. This build focuses on you being a berserker but in some instances it can be tweaked on the fly for a couple of situations. e.g. World mobs you switch to the longbow and Battle Standard.

Give it a go. Hopefully you enjoy it as much as i do. It was what moved me away from the GS. It's done well for me in PvE and Dungeons so feel free to check it out for yourself.

Edited by MrCats, 28 November 2012 - 02:33 AM.


#14 johncurse124

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:23 AM

View PostLeon Da Firenze, on 28 November 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

I'd like to hear more about both of those builds you guys have mentioned.

I didn't realize that Whirlwind attack made you invulnerable. By slow charge I mean that It seems like you are traveling at a regular running speed or perhaps a little faster and is slow in comparison to leap skills.

Although I agree that Rush is not as fast as a leap, you are definitely not traveling at regular speed.  Rush makes you move significantly faster than normal speed.. seems like the difference between moving with swiftness vs moving without, and what's even better is that when you actually *do* have swiftness, you're really trucking along.

Also yea, Whirlwind Attack is absolutely amazing.  It's pretty much the main reason I like GS (other reaons too, but man I love ww attack).

#15 Brand

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:32 AM

View Postjohncurse124, on 28 November 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

Although I agree that Rush is not as fast as a leap, you are definitely not traveling at regular speed.  Rush makes you move significantly faster than normal speed.. seems like the difference between moving with swiftness vs moving without, and what's even better is that when you actually *do* have swiftness, you're really trucking along.

Also yea, Whirlwind Attack is absolutely amazing.  It's pretty much the main reason I like GS (other reaons too, but man I love ww attack).
This, Leap skills don't benefit at all from Swiftness, Rush moves you further than sword leap, and if you have swiftness it actually makes you go much further, same with WWA.

The hammer LB build is pretty simple... Lets see here...

Siroso posted this on my Sonic Boon thread:

View PostSiroso, on 18 November 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

You can definitely do a Hammer/Longbow build that builds damage from might stacking.
Go 0/0/25/30/15 with Embrace the Pain, Merciless Hammer, Stronger Bowstrings, Lung Capacity, Vigorous Shouts, Inspiring Shouts. Utility skills would include FGJ, Shake it off, and either On My Mark, or the Banner of Tactics. The banner is definitely better for dungeons I find, as it lets you stack constant regen on your teammates if you are using the boon duration runes.

Obviously it leans towards a more support based build, but it's definitely just as effective at the might stacking side of things, if not more so. Personally I use the Clerics gear.

If you would like any more details, just shout... if you can pardon the pun.***
***Edited a bit for clarity***
Now, this seems like exactly what you are looking for, and I would suggest running something like this: 0/0/25/30/15
Taking out Stronger Bowstrings simply because with this build you're going to be on top of the enemy, blasting LB F1 under yourself, then the 3 skill, swapping to Hammer, build up adrenaline using one of the shouts and then use Hammer F1, then grab your banner, cast the 2 skill and then use the 5 skill. Rinse lather repeat. This will put a ton of boon support on you and your allies in the area.

You should message Siroso and ask him about your options here, because I'm certainly no expert on this type of build!

#16 Leon Da Firenze

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:22 AM

Mr. Cats.
I am curious about your build. If you are so focused on crits why did you chose sword over axe? I am honestly tempted to go with ax since it hits faster and more often and has another vulnerability applying skill. I guess, since your build sets you up with nearly 100% crit it really doesn't matter that the ax will hit more times because every hit will be a crit regardless and thus wont really be a gamble. The Bust skill for the axe is a leap, however it has a rather short range.. so suddenly I'm leaning towards sword again. However, I can't help but feel like the vulnerability may be worth the change. What did you find?

Please keep in mind that this build will never be used outside of conjunction with an Elementalist. Brand, as you pointed out to me earlier, wouldn't hammer be a poor choice since I am likely to knock opponents out of her aoe fields?

Also, still curious about that long bow. Since she will be applying burning with several of her attack and I will already have her aoe fields to combo with, is Longbow still the best option for my secondary weapon set?

#17 Brand

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:38 AM

View PostLeon Da Firenze, on 28 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

Please keep in mind that this build will never be used outside of conjunction with an Elementalist. Brand, as you pointed out to me earlier, wouldn't hammer be a poor choice since I am likely to knock opponents out of her aoe fields?

Also, still curious about that long bow. Since she will be applying burning with several of her attack and I will already have her aoe fields to combo with, is Longbow still the best option for my secondary weapon set?
Well your knockback is only the one skill, so just don't use it a whole lot (AKA use it for positioning)
Longbow is still your best option because your condition damage will be pretty high, and LB gives you a blast combo with Arcing arrow (Pretty sure no other weaposn minus hammer and LB give a blast combo)

#18 _Sorel

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:18 AM

I also had a elementalist/warrior tag team with my brother. he had change class to a thief atm. but these inputs are still valid.

we dont really build specifically for each other instead we build for the group. what we do is we time our attacks to generate the maximum field and finisher combo with whatever we have with us.
We start of by getting the finishers off cooldown.
He will inform me when its all ready to fire.
I will drop fields depending on what ever is needed the most atm.(fire for dmg, water for healing, lightning for dmg(vulnerability))
He starts droping different finishers.
As one field expires I change to another until He says he out of finishers.
We  both stop, use our non-field/finishers to attack until the finishers are off cooldown again.
this is repeated until the end of the fight.

this is our way of maximizing combo fields in pve.
our builds by itself can support the group as a whole during dungeons.
throw in a well timed combo as a bonus and makes the whole thing easy.

As the elementalist trying to maximize combos I usually avoid staying attune to fire for so long. fire has a good damage output albeit its long cooldown. I stick usually with water/lightning. switching to earth when I feel that my brother will says his finishers are up. and start with an eruption followed by a field of my choosing. to start the combo with a blast finisher.

taking the master trait for longer fire fields are really well worth it in these stituation. as the fire fields will have minimal downtime dispite avoiding fire attunement for too long. this allows you to cast Lava front with a long enough duration to recast it right after channeling the entire meteor shower.

I play a well rounded elementalist with magi armors(healing, precision, vitality) and berserker weapon/accessories(power, precision, crit dmg). I took 20% shorter water cooldowns. this works will due to the staff's water skill having 3 fields(2 water, 1 ice). I usually stay water or lightning attuned during fights depending on the difficulty/success rate of the encounter. for breeze walk encounter I stick with fire to speed things up.

atm he plays a thief. and has a crazy blast finish with a shortbow. making our combos way too effective. instead of cooldowns we wait for initiative. and unlike the warrior the delay between combos is shorter since the initiative is used for all skills. instead of the cooldown mechanic likes other classes do.

Edited by _Sorel, 28 November 2012 - 08:32 AM.


#19 MrCats

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:22 PM

View PostLeon Da Firenze, on 28 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

Mr. Cats.
I am curious about your build. If you are so focused on crits why did you chose sword over axe? I am honestly tempted to go with ax since it hits faster and more often and has another vulnerability applying skill. I guess, since your build sets you up with nearly 100% crit it really doesn't matter that the ax will hit more times because every hit will be a crit regardless and thus wont really be a gamble. The Bust skill for the axe is a leap, however it has a rather short range.. so suddenly I'm leaning towards sword again. However, I can't help but feel like the vulnerability may be worth the change. What did you find?

The sword makes the 100% crit a reality. If i didn't have a sword it would be around 92% buffed which is viablo course but i crit all the time and hit like a monster so i'm ok with it personally. The sword naturally bleeds so there is an additional 10% damage without doing anything extra. I don't use burst skills that often unless i really need the Longbows F1 ability to again maintain that high crit. Mace provides it's own vulnerability for 10 seconds as well so the axe isn't preffered by me personally.

But however, it is your decision in the end, what do you like playing with, what works for you etc. Offhand axe for me is pretty bad, i don't need the adrenaline and the 5th attack is low dps compared to my regular autoattack. I love that bit of control from the mace too.

On a combo field note.

Elementalists have access to the following fields:
Posted Image

We only get access to this:

Longbow |||||||||||||||||Fire|||||||||||||||||Combustive Shot


So, naturally we are going to react more to the elementalist fields rather than they react to us. So from Sword/Mace we can potientially do the following.

Physical Projectile

Longbow: Dual Shot
Longbow: Pin Down
Offhand Mace: Tremor

Blast

Longbow: Arcing Arrow

Leap

Sword: Savage Leap

Results

In a fire field you can get:

Area Might x3 20 seconds (Blast)

Fire Armour (Burns foes for 1s if they hit you, lasts 3 seconds) (Leap)

Burning (Adds the burn condition to attacks) (Physical Projectile)

In a Water Field you can get:

Area Healing (Blast)

Direct Healing to the Player (Leap)

Regeneration 2s (Physical Projectile)

In a Ice Field you can get:

Area Frost Armour (Chill foes that hit you) (Blast)

Frost Armour (Same as before but just for you) (Leap)

Chilled effect on the bad guy (Physical Projectile)

Finally in a Lightning Field you can get:

Area Swiftness (Blast)

Dazing Strike (Dazes target) (Leap)

Apply Vulnerability (More Damage) (Physical Projectile)

There are the possible combinations that can accur from the weapon sets specifically for an elementalists potiential combo fields. Since i'm going to assume fire is the most likely field to occur you will essentially get permanent Fire Armour due to leap if you wanted. Making everything that touches you burn in flames.

Edited by MrCats, 28 November 2012 - 01:39 PM.


#20 Leon Da Firenze

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:29 AM

I have just finished trying both builds and I admit that I like the feel of the sword/mace build the most. Do you guys have any ideas for optimizing it for using with the Ele?

Ie: should I keep the same trait set up or change to a bit more supportive. For instance, your trait line has no traits in tactics which makes changing it to get vigorous shouts takes some rearranging.

Having a tough time deciding what to cut but perhaps something like this?
http://www.gw2db.com...|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

Precision will be highly important but what else should I be looking for?

Things of that nature.

Edited by Leon Da Firenze, 29 November 2012 - 12:44 AM.


#21 MrCats

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:35 AM

I would go with this if you really wanted the healing shouts.

http://www.gw2db.com...080|21080|21080|

You won't be able to get 100% crit though unless you get more berserker gear. I could do it without needing it because of the trait lines but still, you will only miss out on 9% crit chance. If that is a problem you could get the sigil of accuracy to increase that chance by 5% on the sword rather than the sigil of force. Needless to say, that crit is still very, very high. This build focuses on you hitting like a truck with the healing component of shout heals. Just don't rely on the shout heals too much and it'l be fine.The shorter the cooldown on the signet of rage, the better too. That's why i put points there.

Only some minor tweaks needed to support the shout build really. Try that out and see if you like it or not. You do not need the 100% crit, you should be ok with 93% buffed. If you want more trade the sigil of force with the sigil of accuracy giving you 98% crit chance.

Edit: If you're using healing shouts, mending is a much better alternative than healing surge personally as it cures two conditions and your shouts will make up the lost healing.

Edited by MrCats, 29 November 2012 - 10:37 AM.


#22 Leon Da Firenze

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:59 PM

Is there any way to make up for that decrease in survivability without the points 15 points in defense?

#23 MrCats

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:42 PM

Knights Armour will do fine. You have to consider the limitations of the possible builds. If you want shout heals that is almost half the points gone.

#24 Leon Da Firenze

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:57 AM

Hmm. I'm almost thinking I'd be better off without the shout heal and focusing more on holding the aggro of the mobs and dishing out damage.

Which do you guys think would be a better match to an elementalist?

#25 MrCats

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:46 AM

There is no holding aggro moves on monsters. You hold aggro by doing as much damage as you can. Just try not to spread your attention too thin. Warriors are versatile but we can't do everything at once.

#26 Nonlinear

Nonlinear

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:20 PM

I would have the Ele spec Glass Cannon into fire for the CD reduction, damage and might.

I would have the warrior spec into 30 discipline Earthshaker spam to blast out might stacks or w/e other combos are being put down.

Ele lays down Lava Font, Warrior finishes with blasts.  Sounds like fun to me.

Edited by Nonlinear, 03 December 2012 - 09:44 PM.





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