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The Real Reason Mesmers Seem Over powered

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#61 redslion

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 05:07 PM

Another thing... they can swap positions with their clone with sword #3 as much as they want as long as it remains, right?

That's another problems melee have to face.XD

Thanks again for your wisdom, however.

And i'm starting to think destroying their warlock is crucial.

#62 A Darker Rapture

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:02 PM

View PostAdashio, on 26 November 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Ok before I actually put away the screen. I want to get around the actual point of this thread.

I stated that fighting a mesmer with the ability to keep the mesmer in your attention. As well as not waste skills. Will make the mesmer no harder to beat than any other class. Esentially making mesmers no longer OP. I get that moa morph is poweraful yes. But it is not the thing pushing the mesmer to be OP. time warp is ridiculousness in compact team fights. Assuming he gets it out. Which I like to stop. Portal is overpowered in a strategic sense. But in a fight sense it only allows the mesmer to escape. And it is not the reason Mesmers are considered to be OP. really the mesmer is extremely sharp in a lot more areas then most classes. But yet I think that the big reason they are considered OP is because they win a lot of fights, and why do they win so many fights? I belive it because most people are confused by there clones. Well at least with clone using Mesmers that is. Phantasm Mesmers are a little interesting. To put it simply. I do not see a lot of portal,moa morph,or time warp in fights. What I see the most is mental confusion followed by wasted skills.

But really I have only come to this conclusion because of the before and after picture of me not paying much attention to the real mesmer, and me paying attention to the real mesmer.......just to prove my point. When you get moa morphed( we all have) do you ever see it coming, and If so do you see It most of the time. Or only occasionally. After mastering this technique I am not hit easily with it anymore. Simply because I am paying attention

I get what you were trying to say in your op, and I did read all of it however.........
In my experience it's not seeing which one is the real one, that usually takes maybe a second or two at most. It's fighting against the AWFUL targetting system when taking a mesmer on. Because of the way in which the acquisition system works, it makes the clones one of the best defense screens I have ever witnessed in an mmo. If your mesmer opponent is canny and has good movement skills and awareness....good luck on landing a hit at all sans aoe. The clones block your LOS utterly yet don't block his.
Seeing which mesmer is real really is not the problem in my opinion. Getting past the wonky, broken targeting to actually get at the guy is. Before you open a can of "l2p noob" on me, I play a mesmer too.I use the screen of clones to aid my survival. I don't have to waste stats on survival stats, I don't need much armour or hp. I can stack more offensive stats because I don't get hit that often....
You see where I am coming from?

#63 Selvyn R

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 07:01 PM

View PostA Darker Rapture, on 20 May 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

I get what you were trying to say in your op, and I did read all of it however.........
In my experience it's not seeing which one is the real one, that usually takes maybe a second or two at most. It's fighting against the AWFUL targetting system when taking a mesmer on. Because of the way in which the acquisition system works, it makes the clones one of the best defense screens I have ever witnessed in an mmo. If your mesmer opponent is canny and has good movement skills and awareness....good luck on landing a hit at all sans aoe. The clones block your LOS utterly yet don't block his.
Seeing which mesmer is real really is not the problem in my opinion. Getting past the wonky, broken targeting to actually get at the guy is. Before you open a can of "l2p noob" on me, I play a mesmer too.I use the screen of clones to aid my survival. I don't have to waste stats on survival stats, I don't need much armour or hp. I can stack more offensive stats because I don't get hit that often....
You see where I am coming from?

...As they should!

That is all I can say, devs have stated time and time again that a mesmer's biggest defense are their ability to obstruct perception with illusion.

Why is it okay for Necro Minions, Thief adds, Ele adds, Ranger pets and Guardian walls- if were talking range that is, to obstruct LoS but not clones?

#64 A Darker Rapture

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 12:23 PM

Whoa there, you may want to wind your neck in.
The trouble is Selwyn, is that because of the way targeting works it's more effective than any other classes' methods of defence. The necro's pets, are NEEDED to do damage, they are not a defense screen. The mesmer's clones are temporary, they are meant to be sacrificed ~(not inc phant, ofc.)
Rangers have ONE pet. Ele's can have two? Guardian wall....really? Don't take what I said as a personal attack.
I've played all the profs and the most survivable is the mesmer. Played right it's the most frustrating experience in the game, because the target system actively enhances your survival. Not timely use of skills, not anticipation but wonky targeting....and because of that you don't need to focus on spending stats on defense as much as other professions.
I've seen mesmer's spamming clones faster than they can be killed, all the while pounding their opponent whilst their opponent never actually gets on the mesmer.
Now Selwyn, is it fair and balanced that you can constantly hit someone from, say 30m away and they can never actually get a chance to hit you? I usually play a condition tank spec, as yet in spvp I have never lost a 1v1 vs any other class. That is not because I'm a good player. It just has so many tools/utilities/defences at it's disposal...
Why do you see so many mesmers in pvp?

#65 Selvyn R

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 06:16 PM

Well first, its Selvyn, not Selwyn. Since I'm apparently rage induced and everything is an attack and whatnot I suppose I should correct you :P


Nah, just kidding, I'm sorry if I came across that way but I just wanted to understand what your opinions are on similar scenarios, laugh if you must at some of my thoughts but I was simply thinking outside of the box. Just a quick reply to some of your comments, it is strange to say Necro minions are not a "defense screen" when they achieve the very thing you are arguing about clones and are related to traits that improve the Necro's survivability. As for rangers/eles/thieves/guardians I was clutching at straws but again my point was that they could achieve the same effect as what you are arguing.


Now, I doubt you haven't died in a 1v 1 but that is irrelevant, anyways, let's look at what other professions have to combat a mesmer in this scenario.


Call Target- allows you to target the real mesmer to combat the wonky targetting system, until the mesmer stealths, but then, what chances do you have at hitting someone in stealth anyway?


Piercing- every class has access to at least one skill that can pierce, Warriors, Rangers, Engineers and Necros are probably the most consistent.


Plenty o' AoEs- Not much to say here, just make everything go boom :D.


"Now Selwyn, is it fair and balanced that you can constantly hit someone from, say 30m away and they can never actually get a chance to hit You?"


Is it fair that a ranger/engineer can constantly hit from 1500 range? Is it fair bleed spamming pistol thieves can consistently hit from range (900 is nothing to scoff at) and be in stealth for 70% of the fight? (Thus not getting hit). Just a couple of examples of the top of my head, feel free to rebuff them like last time ;)


"Why do you see so many mesmers in Pvp?"

Silly question. Its like asking how many apples are in a bag.


Edited by Selvyn R, 03 June 2013 - 06:19 PM.


#66 A Darker Rapture

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:45 PM

View PostSelvyn R, on 03 June 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

"Why do you see so many mesmers in Pvp?"
Silly question. Its like asking how many apples are in a bag.

Hmm, a few more snarky quips. Don't really appreciate that to be honest.The point also somewhat missed. It must be because mesmer gameplay is more engaging and fun then? that must be the reason, oh..and thieves too.

Look, the two most whined things about in pvp class wise are thief perma stealth and mesmer clones..why? Because they way they work frustrates you. I just feel it could have been done a bit differently. Certain specs have insane clone generation with no drawbacks.
A good mesmer, aided by crappo-target™ will faceroll just about anything 1v1.

#67 Felix_GW2

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 02:07 AM

I have a Mesmer main, and a condition warrior as my other level 80. Been playing the warrior lately so he is higher WvW level than the mesmer.

Now when I fight a Mesmer in WvW it is one I win against. And I get annoyed if I don't, cause i have messed up. It's pretty basic really, the ones who spit out clones all the time just ignore the one standing still and attack the real one. He will show up in a second or two anyway. Usually this will lead the fight to be one long him running away kind of thing.

If he starts thowing you about, it's phantasm time, and when you don't know quite what to do you should kill his iZerker. If you hear the sound of the pistol phantasm then give it a thought, killing that one. You actually have good time when you don't panic and kill the phantasms.

As I said, the real one. To win, bleeds sure help, and for a warrior, longbow 5 and he is shackled and bleed, use F1 or the 3 AoE, drop some illusions at the same time. Or with swords, hamstring, use sword F1 on him. I don't really feel it's that hard.

A good one okay I can lose, but having mesmer as my main it's sure not a given that the mesmer will win, usually they get caught and just start to try and run away as I said. Doing nothing but leaving their damage dealing phantasms out of the fight and being rather weak.

I had a runin with one a late night in EB, so we 1 on 1 a few times, after he and a rogue got me down. Well he didn't win 1 vs 1 and he partied me and said; that longbow just killed me. He was a good mesmer but he really couldn't do anything when I was focusing just him. And the longbow wasn't the only reason, switching to swords and jumping him and F1 was the finisher.

But if I didn't have a Mesmer main I would probably be in trouble. Now it's the opposite, I know exactly what tricks he got and I aint falling for them.

Edited by Felix_GW2, 20 June 2013 - 02:16 AM.






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