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Commander Rank


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#1 Zheo

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:44 PM

Firstly, this isn't me bashing the current commanders out there who have shelled out the 100g to get their title.  It's merely a wondering and a suggestion.

I'm curious to know why the commander title is purchased and not 'earned' through time played in WvW or points captured/events completed.  It seems strange to me that our sPvP rank is tied through games played and matches won, but a title allowing you your own icon on the map is purchased, which no need for skill.  

Perhaps ANet should change this, and offer a lower rank based on achievement, or available, begrudgingly, for purchase...call it Captain or something, and allow you to have a party/squad of 10-12.  Gives you an icon to those close to you (Not available anywhere in the map...so if you hit M Commander icons show, but not Captain icons unless you are in their vicinity).

Personally I'm working towards earning the experience and gold to purchase my Commander title, but, really, if I had the money I could ultimately purchase the gems, convert them to gold and just buy the title, problem solved.

It would also allow for greater leadership and less chickens running with heads cut off when a commander isn't on (saw an entire afternoon passby on a Borderlands without a Commander).

Just my two cents. My thanks to those Commanders who have spent the time and gold to lead others in the pursuit of WvW Glory. I respect your dedication.

#2 Hennet

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:02 PM

This point was argued at the start of the major WvW battles, with what were labeled "Credit Card Commanders" running around the map doing karma earning trains with little to no knowledge of how WvW worked or what to actually do in it.

Now a days, you really wont see that as much as most of them have farmed up the karma they needed and the commanders you have seen around now are the people that are here to stay.

I do agree that it would be nice to have a secondary title/icon for those people that dont have the gold to fork out but have proven themselves time and time again in battle, maybe someone picked by the people on a map to have a temp commander icon?

#3 Venereus

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:09 PM

Commanders cost 100g because they were originally intentended to be a group/guild effort, not a personal one. 100g is hard for one person to come up with, but easy for a big group, and no other game currency is as easily gathered by groups as gold. Most issues people have with Commanders have little to do with how the icon is gained, and more to do with people not realizing that it's the followers who make or break a Commander. No in game achievement, or any other conceivable method, will guarantee a player to have what it takes to be a good Commander, so don't worry about how the icon is earned, worry about how it's used and only follow those who do it well.

Edited by Venereus, 26 November 2012 - 05:13 PM.


#4 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:10 PM

WvWVW? I;m farming money to get the title and troll people :D.

#5 lioka qiao

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:46 PM

Heh im currently training to be commander by farming trolls (funny how it works like that) but the 100g for commander is actually an interesting idea simply because that is how it has generally worked in history.  Most commanders on the battlefield were wealthy nobles, particularly in the middle ages.  Many didn't know much of military strategy but simply had the means to buy their way in.   This isn't a slight against commanders in Guildwars as most are fairly competent, just a parallel to the real world.

There should be different ranks though I agree with that, and those ranks should be based on merit.  The ranks would have different visibility ranges and squad sizes much like real world ranks would be and should be bought using badges of honor.  Temporary sub ranks should also be appointed by commanders and such would allow commanders to execute more advanced maneuvers with multiple squads.  The temp ranks have the same capability as the bought versions but end if the officer leaves the commander's squad.

#6 Keepy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:57 PM

I know of one commander of my server who actually knew wvw, who got more than 1k badges. Who was a strategic smart person and our server didnt follow him not even once because his army wasnt 20+ people. And i know of commanders that where 100% PVE didnt knew anything about WvW not even how to brake the wall!! or the front door! and had an army of 50+ people... yes that was when our server was a total failure, they finally after like 2 months learned how to play wvw.

Im wondering where that great commander went, shame of the people who didnt follow him for not having enough people, he was really good.

#7 Korra

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:04 PM

I got my commander icon because i was tired of trying to organise something and people not following me. Now when i spawn at 1loc i have atleast 5 arround me waiting for orders. Best 100g investment ever.

#8 1up

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:00 PM

Quote

I'm curious to know why the commander title is purchased and not 'earned' through time played in WvW or points captured/events completed.

Because the casuals would complain, and GW2 caters to the casuals.

#9 RivenVII

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:46 PM

WvW needs to institute a ranking system that you can gain points towards. I don't care how they do it, but there needs to be rewards for playing. Currently, Commander is seen as the endgame for a WvW player. Feel like you need recognition for playing WvW? Buy a commander tome! The misconception that this is a rank and not an organizational tool is the biggest problem. Commander wasn't intended to be a status symbol. My tag was donated to me by my guild and I wear it with humility.

If you want to talk about the biggest problem here, it is that players want shiny things for their efforts. Since there are currently no actual WvW awards (e.g. /rank, a special icon for being a veteran, etc.), players are going to buy the commander icon because they want attention. Once players have other rewards to clamor over, you'll have less of a problem with Commander costing 100g. Those players who just want it for looks will go use that gold on a Legendary and be proud of their icon that was earned rather than bought.

#10 Aetou

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:33 AM

Well, there ARE other WvW titles/ranks.  The problem is just that they all require an INSANE amount of playtime to achieve and once you start getting one you'll get most of them quite close together.  The problem with introducing 'lesser' icons is that currently all that Commander really has going for it is the icon.  They need to introduce good functionality to Squads (give me a proper 'raid' interface and let me see all my squad members on my map please!) and then they can think about introducing lesser icons with smaller groups.    But as others have said, a guild of 20 should be able to get a commander tome in a couple of days so the price really isn't prohibitive.

#11 Briar

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:56 AM

Really I am concerned about this games future, what happens if everyone and their dog starts buying commander because they have amassed money and have nothing else to do with it.

The only reason the icon even works right now is because people only see 1-3 icons on the map at any given time. Cannot imagine what it would be like if people saw 20+; which commander would you follow?

#12 sjrmoo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:04 AM

View PostBriar, on 27 November 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

Really I am concerned about this games future, what happens if everyone and their dog starts buying commander because they have amassed money and have nothing else to do with it.

Exactly.  Say gw2 lasts as long as gw1 has, in seven years half the players will be commanders.  What else are people going to do with their gold by that point?  I see it as similar to the gwamm title of gw1, by the last days before gw2 came out there were tons of them running around.  Heck I got that title and never tried very hard to get it, just time and basic compatence got that done.

#13 Tainted Queen

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:11 AM

View PostVenereus, on 26 November 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Commanders cost 100g because they were originally intentended to be a group/guild effort, not a personal one. 100g is hard for one person to come up with, but easy for a big group, and no other game currency is as easily gathered by groups as gold. Most issues people have with Commanders have little to do with how the icon is gained, and more to do with people not realizing that it's the followers who make or break a Commander. No in game achievement, or any other conceivable method, will guarantee a player to have what it takes to be a good Commander, so don't worry about how the icon is earned, worry about how it's used and only follow those who do it well.

very well said

In addition some people get a commander title to lead zergs in pve for DE chains so people can see where the DE's are happeneing, I am not sure if this was an intended use for the tag or not but it has become a use for it. I threw my tag on when the new area lost shores came out so I could show a friend where the DE chain was going on easily, after he found it I actually forgot I had it on and after the chain was done I had about 15 people following me around while I killed karkas for my monthly.

As far as having 20 commanders in a map I believe there are only 10 commander icons allowed in a map, however I have not tested this. Though after about 6 commanders in one wvw bl once it got very confusing the good part is though once you join a squad you can only see your commanders icon so you never get separated from your commander when two zergs cross paths

#14 Aetou

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:44 PM

View PostBriar, on 27 November 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

Really I am concerned about this games future, what happens if everyone and their dog starts buying commander because they have amassed money and have nothing else to do with it.

The only reason the icon even works right now is because people only see 1-3 icons on the map at any given time. Cannot imagine what it would be like if people saw 20+; which commander would you follow?

Is TC the only server where Commanders talk to each other, coordinate and don't always have their icons on?  We'll often have 6-10 Commanders in a map but will almost never have more than 3 icons turned on - we'll cycle through them as people are needed in different locations and turn them off when we don't need people with us.

#15 RivenVII

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:28 PM

View PostAetou, on 27 November 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Is TC the only server where Commanders talk to each other, coordinate and don't always have their icons on?  We'll often have 6-10 Commanders in a map but will almost never have more than 3 icons turned on - we'll cycle through them as people are needed in different locations and turn them off when we don't need people with us.

Not just you :) On Blackgate we frequently keep it to a 2-3 Commander maximum. Only 1 if we have less people. My guild has 9, usually 5-6 of us are on at once at any point during NA time. Most of the time we have only myself or my vice their tag on. It's respectful to the other commanders to keep it off if you aren't leading. Honestly, if a person insists on having their icon on no matter what because "they paid 100g for it", then they are a commander for the wrong reasons. Should be pretty easy to just not follow them. Also, protip, join a squad and you will only see the commander you are following "/squadjoin Riven The Valorous"

#16 Zheo

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:12 PM

I think Riven hits the nail on the head, suggesting that only a few commanders are active at a time. With a lower rank (i.e. Captain) you could have more people running around with a set leader doing camp flips, raids, etc and not have the overall map littered with Commander icons (my suggestion for Captain is having the icon only visible to those nearby).

#17 Silvercat18

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:58 PM

I noticed that a lot of the early commanders have now gone. The ones i see these days tend to be those who have earned their rank a bit more slowly and thus actually want to use it in WvW.

I`m basically saving to pay for mine solo and it is taking a long time indeed, but when i do get it, i plan to make use of it.

#18 RivenVII

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:31 PM

View PostZheo, on 28 November 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

I think Riven hits the nail on the head, suggesting that only a few commanders are active at a time. With a lower rank (i.e. Captain) you could have more people running around with a set leader doing camp flips, raids, etc and not have the overall map littered with Commander icons (my suggestion for Captain is having the icon only visible to those nearby).

I'd really just like to see a larger party size. If they don't want to institute captains or any other sort of smaller raid leader system, a party size of 8-10 would be amazing. Also, for guilds that are running with 30-40 people, a larger party size to keep it to 3-4 parties would make combat more efficient and allow you to give better squad designations. If you aren't flipping camps with 5 people or ganking yaks, it's hard to do a whole lot. In a large scale battle, if you had 20v20 and you wanted on squad to flank so you had an L shape with 10 on each side (an actual military tactic), it's far easier to designate one group to that instead of trying to say Party # 1, 2, 3 you flank, 4, 5, 6 on me, etc. The party system needs some love and we wouldn't even need a captain rank.

#19 Cake is Cake

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:16 PM

View PostVenereus, on 26 November 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

No in game achievement, or any other conceivable method, will guarantee a player to have what it takes to be a good Commander,

Pretty much this.  There will always be bad commanders even if the commander icon is gotten through achievement rather than gold.

#20 MrZero

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:07 PM

View PostRivenTheValorous, on 26 November 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

WvW needs to institute a ranking system that you can gain points towards. I don't care how they do it, but there needs to be rewards for playing. Currently, Commander is seen as the endgame for a WvW player. Feel like you need recognition for playing WvW? Buy a commander tome! The misconception that this is a rank and not an organizational tool is the biggest problem. Commander wasn't intended to be a status symbol. My tag was donated to me by my guild and I wear it with humility.

If you want to talk about the biggest problem here, it is that players want shiny things for their efforts. Since there are currently no actual WvW awards (e.g. /rank, a special icon for being a veteran, etc.), players are going to buy the commander icon because they want attention. Once players have other rewards to clamor over, you'll have less of a problem with Commander costing 100g. Those players who just want it for looks will go use that gold on a Legendary and be proud of their icon that was earned rather than bought.


The sad truth about what you are saying about wanting new shiny things;

There is a whole thread dedicated to bitching about a new tier of gear.

View PostBriar, on 27 November 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

Really I am concerned about this games future, what happens if everyone and their dog starts buying commander because they have amassed money and have nothing else to do with it.

The only reason the icon even works right now is because people only see 1-3 icons on the map at any given time. Cannot imagine what it would be like if people saw 20+; which commander would you follow?


The one that I know isn't a moron.

#21 McNasty

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:13 PM

View PostMrZero, on 28 November 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

The one that I know isn't a moron.

I have to agree with this. Pubs might follow an idiot once or twice, but repair is expensive.

/squadjoin one who is known and gogogo!

#22 RivenVII

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:09 PM

View PostMrZero, on 28 November 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

The sad truth about what you are saying about wanting new shiny things;

There is a whole thread dedicated to bitching about a new tier of gear.

Touche. I see where you are coming from. The awesome part of these shiny things, is that they wouldn't change gameplay or balance. The biggest issue people have with the gear is that it is a single PvE dungeon that has to be ground repeatedly to get a single accessory and isn't available through PvP avenues. I'm inclined to agree.

#23 chuckles79

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:17 PM

the only thing I have to say is that they should be account based.  It locks people into one toon.

#24 Reisa

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:58 AM

Commander should be account based, agreed.

Also, what if instead of another title or tier or something, if the leader of a party reaches max number (currently 5 people for us non-commanders), maybe they're given their own icon or notification or something when they're all in WvW and within a certain range of each other?  Just something to let other people know where those people are at on the map.

#25 Zheo

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:54 PM

I hadn't even considered making the whole 'account-bound' argument! Very good idea.

I'm inclined to agree with most of you...really somethign needs to be done for there to be smaller scale leaders...I think it is a relatively easy thing to implement, and think ANet should really look at it, especially when they say they are going to be making changes to WvW




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