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AMA Post-Mortem Discussion, What You Got Out of It


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#1 MazingerZ

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:51 PM

I won't be posting anymore quoting AMA that is currently on-going, despite the fact that the Guru News link hasn't been updated in over an hour, instead let's talk about what was discussed.

Vertical progression is here to stay.

Ascended gear was imagined post-launch.  They claim it should have been in there at launch.  This is a fix to what they perceive to be a design error in the gear progression.  Never mind the fact that Legendary-Exotic-level max stats were supposed to be balanced around the end-game.

Looks like the game's going to introduce a shallow power curve.  They won't introduce any new item tiers.  They are just going to raise the stats on new items.  Like WoW epics.

However, don't worry, ArenaNet is looking into the idea that maybe their grind is too much and re-evaluating the costs.  I'm sure they'll patch a price fix around the same time that Cash->Gem->Gold sales taper off from people trying to purchase ectos and other stuff off the TP.

In short, I will no longer be paying money to support this game.
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#2 n00854180t

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:17 PM

What I got out of it is that they think everyone who bought the game on the stated premise is an idiot and that they've now abandoned those players in favor of the WoW game-hoppers, and are fully committed to obsoleting our gear (via increased stats on Ascended items over time) and catering to the no-life grinders.

Basically, a giant "* you" to fans of the game.

Edit: And yeah, I'm not spending any more money on gems after this, and thus far I've spend a fair amount (cost of the game at least). Nor will I be recommending the game to any of my friends or encouraging them to play.

Edited by n00854180t, 26 November 2012 - 11:22 PM.


#3 Markus

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:19 PM

Now that I can finally see the direction this game heading toward, I suppose I made the right choice. Paying 60 bucks for close to three months of fun isn't so bad. Anyway I just don't see how they, in the long run, can satisfy both sides of the spectrum, especially when they're in direct opposition to each other (one prefers perpetual stats progression, while the other prefers an equal playing field with emphasis on incomparables).

The man who chases two rabbits, catches neither.

Edited by Markus, 26 November 2012 - 11:29 PM.


#4 Disdanes

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:35 PM

I don't see why everyone always makes the argument that the two sides are in opposition to each other. Guild Wars is more about your skills/traits/ and then your gear. You can run around in rare gear and still do fine against other players. People just get too emotional over a set of gear its like watching the damn election all over again.

#5 MandraxUK

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:37 PM

View PostMarkus, on 26 November 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

Now that I can finally see the direction this game heading toward, I suppose I made the right choice. Paying 60 bucks for close to three months of fun isn't so bad. Anyway I just don't see how they, in the long run, can satisfy both sides of the spectrum, especially when they're in direct opposition to each other (one prefers perpetual stats progression, while the other prefers an equal playing field with emphasis on incomparables).

The man who chases two rabbits, catches neither.

They can't satisfy either.  They are trying to compromise by drip feeding vertical progression.  The problem is that those that crave vertical progression will not be happy with the rate that they can obtain the new gear so are unlikely to stay around long once they have acquired the newest gear.  Those that hate vertical progression will not be satisfied as the treadmill will be there, albeit moving very slowly.

#6 Var

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:42 PM

Q: Will ascended be the final tier?
A: Yes.

Moving on. The only lasting concern is the infusion slots of, currently, +5 vitality/cond/prec... those are a bit skill-point pricy.

If they do this at all like fractals, then stat progression will be instance limited (ie. agony resistance) for the goal of attaining phat-lootz in the form of skins (as is the case of fractals) that can neither be bought on the TP nor earned through any other form of gameplay, so they'll effectively mean something. Sort of like the backbrace being pretty much a showing of extreme dedication to FotM. (The content, should remain doable in masterwork gear just as the current intro levels of FotM are set up. But if you want Ascended weapon skin, time to farm.)

Q: Will we have other methods of obtaining this gear?
A: Yes, we *ed up royally with this release.

Moving on.

So... what were our problems again?

I fee like Traehearn.

Edited by Var, 26 November 2012 - 11:44 PM.


#7 n00854180t

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:47 PM

@Var, neither of those address the actual problem, which is that ArenaNet sold us on a game with certain premises/features and then did a complete 180, abandoned all of those things the game was sold to us based on and added a gear grind/treadmill.

Also, he mentioned that they would increase the stats of Ascended gear over time within the tier, i.e., gear treadmill.

Edited by n00854180t, 26 November 2012 - 11:47 PM.


#8 Bloggi

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:52 PM

View PostMarkus, on 26 November 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

Now that I can finally see the direction this game heading toward, I suppose I made the right choice. Paying 60 bucks for close to three months of fun isn't so bad. Anyway I just don't see how they, in the long run, can satisfy both sides of the spectrum, especially when they're in direct opposition to each other (one prefers perpetual stats progression, while the other prefers an equal playing field with emphasis on incomparables).

The man who chases two rabbits, catches neither.

Agree with this. The game has been very fun to play and it fantastic value for money (to get that much fun out of a game for $60...that's a first for me), not withstanding the controversial issues (of various kinds) that have plagued the game since release. Some issues are smaller than others of course and personally I've had virtually no complaints about the game up till the point they released ascended gear. And not only is it impossible to please everyone, but IMHO, the release of ascended gear is going to be a failed attempt to please the most hardcore players as well. The hardcore folks will grind out their ascended stuff in no time at all and then be left complaining again about the lack of content. We will never please people who are only looking for gear with ever increasing stats.

View PostDisdanes, on 26 November 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

I don't see why everyone always makes the argument that the two sides are in opposition to each other. Guild Wars is more about your skills/traits/ and then your gear. You can run around in rare gear and still do fine against other players.

Of course. Agree. But even the most conservative of players will usually prefer to ensure they have the best of gear at hand so they can proceed to actually playing the game and not worrying about gear for the rest of their game-time. Adding an additional tier just makes them roll their eyes in disgust and compel them to grind for gear again. I'd rather *play* a game than *work* a game, if you get my drift. I want to have max stat gear and not worry about it ever again and seek out everything else the game has to offer.

Edited by Xekk, 27 November 2012 - 12:05 AM.


#9 Var

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:56 PM

View Postn00854180t, on 26 November 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

@Var, neither of those address the actual problem, which is that ArenaNet sold us on a game with certain premises/features and then did a complete 180, abandoned all of those things the game was sold to us based on and added a gear grind/treadmill.

Also, he mentioned that they would increase the stats of Ascended gear over time within the tier, i.e., gear treadmill.

As far as I understood it, the infusions are the source of how they plan on increasing those stats, which is why I raised my concern regarding the currently existing and pricey real stat modifying infusions. This is something I have to wait and see before I say anything more on it. As it currently stands, those stat boosting infusions are laughable but, nonetheless, they are stat infusions and would, in theory, pile up over time, but if it is made such that the gear does not itself become outdated and that infusions are progressive and easy to update, I don't particularly see that big of an issue. (It basically gives you something to do without either outdating the base component nor requiring you to run X, this is what I took them to mean when they said "shallow".).

Of course, I would be happier as, if in original post, it worked as all stats being dungeon self-contained as Agony Res currently stands within FotM.

So as it stands, we're in a gray zone. We need to wait and see how they correct their self-admitted mistake of limiting FotM as the only source of Ascended. If its not a terrible issue to acquire from other sources and Ascended base never falls out of flavor, then the manifesto is kept intact. (More or less.) (I'm pretty sure they had wanted exotics to have taken more time to acquire than ended up being the case.)

Feel free to correct my misunderstandings though.

Edited by unraveled, 27 November 2012 - 07:11 AM.
Removed reply to deleted content.


#10 ScoutMATH

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:56 PM

i was expecting Chris Whiteside saying "Sorry we *ed up. We will stick to our manifesto. Thanks."

#11 n00854180t

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:09 AM

View PostVar, on 26 November 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

So as it stands, we're in a gray zone. We need to wait and see how they correct their self-admitted mistake of limiting FotM as the only source of Ascended. If its not a terrible issue to acquire from other sources and Ascended base never falls out of flavor, then the manifesto is kept intact. (More or less.) (I'm pretty sure they had wanted exotics to have taken more time to acquire than ended up being the case.)

Feel free to correct my misunderstandings though.


Well, they said "We don't make grindy games" as well as "if a player has 1000 hours to obtain something so rare that other players would never be able to get it, we want that item to be differentiated by looks, not stats".

Unless the "other ways" to get Ascended items are *much much* less grindy than the current requirements, I don't see them holding to what they've said.

Going by the ascended item materials, which are about 10x the exotic materials cost, other methods of getting ascended items would be approximately as follows:

Karma - 42k (exo) -> 420k (ascended)
Badges of Honor - 300-400 (exo) -> 30k-40k (ascended)

That wouldn't do anything to fix the problem that these items require an order of magnitude more materials than an exotic item, and if they cost anything remotely on par with the current materials cost, they will still be a massive shitty grind (i.e., directly contradicting what they've said about grind previously).

Chris Whiteside just spouting random nonsense about it requiring "zero/minimal" grind doesn't actually make it reality.

Edited by n00854180t, 27 November 2012 - 12:09 AM.


#12 Var

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:14 AM

View Postn00854180t, on 27 November 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

Well, they said "We don't make grindy games" as well as "if a player has 1000 hours to obtain something so rare that other players would never be able to get it, we want that item to be differentiated by looks, not stats".

Unless the "other ways" to get Ascended items are *much much* less grindy than the current requirements, I don't see them holding to what they've said.

Isn't the idea of "we *ed up and made it too hard to obtain" imply that they made it too grindy? They even addressed the T6/ecto cost issues. Wouldn't that mean that the current order of magnitude was part of said * up?

If we go by the strictness to which we seem to be holding the manifesto, Exotics required X more hours to attain and were stronger than golds, and just roll this backwards all the way from whites to blues. (Didn't we have this exact thread at start/launch with people complaining that exotics took to much time and were a grind, and that that was against the manifesto? I'm pretty sure we did.)

Of course there are some oddly peculiar details regarding Legendaries always being top tier. Does this mean that legendaries will be auto-infused with best stats? Or what?

#13 Runkleford

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:18 AM

View PostVar, on 26 November 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

As far as I understood it, the infusions are the source of how they plan on increasing those stats, which is why I raised my concern regarding the currently existing and pricey real stat modifying infusions. This is something I have to wait and see before I say anything more on it. As it currently stands, those stat boosting infusions are laughable but, nonetheless, they are stat infusions and would, in theory, pile up over time, but if it is made such that the gear does not itself become outdated and that infusions are progressive and easy to update, I don't particularly see that big of an issue. (It basically gives you something to do without either outdating the base component nor requiring you to run X, this is what I took them to mean when they said "shallow".)

I hope that this is the direction that ANET has in mind where infusions progress on a power curve but only in certain relevant  instances such as Agony in FotM. This way it doesn't affect the rest of the game and doesn't require you to replace your armor (again.) and the hardcore folks get progression that's limited to the FotM or any other content with similar Agony mechanic.

However, I still question their decision to raise the stats on Ascendent gear. They could have easily implemented the infusion mechanic without the stat increase and satisfied the need for progression but not have the mess of gear replacement and progression. And there's still the matter that it's still way too grindy to obtain Ascendent gear as of now.

#14 n00854180t

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:22 AM

View PostVar, on 27 November 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

Isn't the idea of "we *ed up and made it too hard to obtain" imply that they made it too grindy?

This is also from the guy that, literally two comments above, claimed they weren't grindy at all, or required zero/minimal grind.

As you might surmise, I hold very very little stock in what he says. If he thinks 300 ectos, 1350 fractal relics, 24 skill points, and 250 T6 mats is "zero" or "minimal" grind, then what are they going to change it to?

ArenaNet flushed their credibility down the toilet. That was their decision, it's hard to fault me for not taking things they say at face value (especially when they contradict themselves literally minutes apart).

To recap why I find it absurd.

ArenaNet

1) Sold us GW2 by saying things like "We don't make grindy games"
2) Releases a new tier that requires hundreds of hours of grinding only three months after release.
3) Goes into public and claims the massive grind for those items does not exist and is "minimal" or "zero" grind.
4) Only a few minutes after claiming that there is zero/minimal grind for the items, changes their tune and says it's too grindy.

Forgive me if I don't buy into them saying they'll fix the requirements (not that I don't think they'll be changed, I just don't see them being fixed).

Edited by n00854180t, 27 November 2012 - 12:32 AM.


#15 Daesu

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:28 AM

View PostDisdanes, on 26 November 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

I don't see why everyone always makes the argument that the two sides are in opposition to each other. Guild Wars is more about your skills/traits/ and then your gear. You can run around in rare gear and still do fine against other players. People just get too emotional over a set of gear its like watching the damn election all over again.

It is not so much about ability but the satisfaction of having a maxed-out character.  It is about looking at our toons and feeling pleased.  If you don't understand that then I can't help you.

Edited by Daesu, 27 November 2012 - 12:30 AM.


#16 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:30 AM

And not a single pvp answer was given that day. :(

#17 Var

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:30 AM

View Postn00854180t, on 27 November 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

This is also from the guy that, literally two comments above, claimed they weren't grindy at all, or required zero/minimal grind.

That part was odd but he did get called out on it, and he said they are looking to change it. So while assumptions are bad, isn't this part of the whole "we *ed up" segment? They want to design it to be not so grindy (zero is a very odd word choice since everything is, to some level a grind, even just basic exotics are a grind; leveling alts (for me) is a grind; leveling in general is a grind for some) doesn't mean they did it correctly or that they even succeed. Ie, they failed miserably on this and know it.

And as I said, you're curtailing the issue of how this was discussed at launch in regards to "grind" of exotics. I don't see how this grind suddenly damaged you're perception of what was sold to you, when grind was already in the game at launch and complaints were already in the air (and like I said, zero is a very odd words choice (ie. PR bs) because it depends on who and how one looks at it, but zero is too absolute a term to be genuine). You should have opened your eyes sooner. (This is in regards to the edit which I missed while replying.)

View Postn00854180t, on 27 November 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

As you might surmise, I hold very very little stock in what he says. If he thinks 300 ectos, 1350 fractal relics, 24 skill points, and 250 T6 mats is "zero" or "minimal" grind, then what are they going to change it to?

ArenaNet flushed their credibility down the toilet. That was their decision, it's hard to fault me for not taking things they say at face value (especially when they contradict themselves literally minutes apart).

Where is 300 ectos coming from? Its 50 ectos + 250T6 or (not and, as you are strangely combinging it as if both were needed to attain a single item) 1850 fractal relics for the ascended item. Anything more than this is purely for +5 resistance which has no affect on anything (as of so far) that isn't related to just reaching irrelevant FotM depths and fancy skins held therein.

I'm not saying that either of the above isn't a grind (it most certainly is/was) but you're doing your point a disservice by misrepresenting the facts of the matter and exaggerating.

A bit of a stretch to say they flushed it down the toilet, they damaged it and are in damage control mode. I give credit where credit is due when people admit they screw up. (Communication, hasty introduction, not having done this pre-launch.)

Edited by Var, 27 November 2012 - 12:36 AM.


#18 MazingerZ

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:33 AM

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 27 November 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

And not a single pvp answer was given that day. :(

Chris is apparently going to go over all those questions that are/were the top comments in that AMA.  He expects to be posting long into the night.
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#19 paradiselight

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:41 AM

The first reply on the ascended gear is the most telling, as it reveals Anet's true stance. All the follow-up replies are just marketing BS generated by gauging the reddit replies/votes.

Seriously, had Anet came out and apologized, then followed up with promises to fix the grind, I might have stayed on. But no, all I get is a we-think-you're-too-stupid-to-realize statement "there is minimal grind".

#20 Millimidget

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:46 AM

Disappointing responses.

It's really easy to claim there was no foul, that all this was intended, and that you had really hoped to put in alternative methods for acquiring Ascended gear beyond dozens of hours of grind/farm per piece.

It's much harder to follow through and actually implement those alternative methods for acquiring the gear. Worse, they clearly sound intent on pushing more Ascended pieces, and if they require comparable grind to the current pieces then yes, it is a gear treadmill. And there's no reason to think they won't require comparable grind given all the discussion linking them to legendary gear.

Was there any response to the issue that they require the same mats needed for a legendary, so with each piece you're just pushing your legendary further back?

I don't see how this is attractive for anyone but the most hardcore grind fanatics. They still haven't made precursors easier to get; they just flooded the market with a one-time event that just happened to take place during their first "recruit a friend" initiative.

View Postparadiselight, on 27 November 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

"there is minimal grind".
That's a complete joke. Even WoW was less of a grind than this.

Edited by Millimidget, 27 November 2012 - 12:47 AM.


#21 MazingerZ

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:49 AM

Quote

E9:There are no ways to repair inside of fractals aside from cash shop items, providing an inherent advantage to people who pay for advantages. Can this be fixed?

Well it certainly wasn't designed to be a monetization resource, however i do see your point. We wanted to get rid of rez rushing and focus more on parties working together to not die and die less (-: We will continue to monitor the need for repair in the fractals and go from there.

Sorry if i am not giving more details here but this is something i would like to get metrics on.

Chris

Oh, who the hell is he kidding?

Edited by MazingerZ, 27 November 2012 - 12:50 AM.

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#22 asbasb

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:52 AM

What I got out of it? Closure. They intend to increase the time it takes to gear up and keep devaluing what you worked for by releasing more powerful upgrades. Basically, they want to make sure there's always something you can grind/work for to get more powerful, even if it's just an infusion.

I cannot play a game that won't let me get over the gear work part, in order to start working towards things I really like(skins/titles). I can't enjoy horizontal progression without having finished vertical progression. It feels like I'm wasting my time if I go for looks over power, even if the increase in power is just 0.1%.

Vertical progression was in the game from the beginning in the form of leveling to 80 and gearing up in exotics, but the process was short enough for me to soldier through/ignore it while I let myself get distracted by events, personal story and the details in the world around me. It also had a definite endpoint, a plateau that we all were sure of is never going to be surpassed. Now, with vertical progression being basically open ended, there's no chance I will ever reach a point where I can stop worrying about working to reach the top.

I'm done.

#23 n00854180t

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:09 AM

View PostVar, on 27 November 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

That part was odd but he did get called out on it, and he said they are looking to change it. So while assumptions are bad, isn't this part of the whole "we *ed up" segment? They want to design it to be not so grindy (zero is a very odd word choice since everything is, to some level a grind, even just basic exotics are a grind; leveling alts (for me) is a grind; leveling in general is a grind for some) doesn't mean they did it correctly or that they even succeed. Ie, they failed miserably on this and know it.

And as I said, you're curtailing the issue of how this was discussed at launch in regards to "grind" of exotics. I don't see how this grind suddenly damaged you're perception of what was sold to you, when grind was already in the game at launch and complaints were already in the air (and like I said, zero is a very odd words choice (ie. PR bs) because it depends on who and how one looks at it, but zero is too absolute a term to be genuine). You should have opened your eyes sooner. (This is in regards to the edit which I missed while replying.)



Where is 300 ectos coming from? Its 50 ectos + 250T6 or (not and, as you are strangely combinging it as if both were needed to attain a single item) 1850 fractal relics for the ascended item. Anything more than this is purely for +5 resistance which has no affect on anything (as of so far) that isn't related to just reaching irrelevant FotM depths and fancy skins held therein.

I'm not saying that either of the above isn't a grind (it most certainly is/was) but you're doing your point a disservice by misrepresenting the facts of the matter and exaggerating.

A bit of a stretch to say they flushed it down the toilet, they damaged it and are in damage control mode. I give credit where credit is due when people admit they screw up. (Communication, hasty introduction, not having done this pre-launch.)

I was referring to the "infused" version, which requires an extra 250 ectos, not the alternate method via grinding relics/Gifts of Ascension.

In any case, my point is I don't put any value on what they're saying now, because they've dumped their credibility into the toilet by saying one thing and doing another ("We don't make grindy games" -> introduces extreme grind) and also flip-flopping like a beached salmon ("there's minimal grind" -> "this is too grindy").

I feel like the "oh yeah it's too grindy" response was just a PR response after he noticed people were calling him on his bullshit regarding the "there's minimal grind" post.

Edited by n00854180t, 27 November 2012 - 01:10 AM.


#24 Var

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:20 AM

View Postn00854180t, on 27 November 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

I was referring to the "infused" version, which requires an extra 250 ectos, not the alternate method via grinding relics/Gifts of Ascension.

Why should you or I care about the infused version unless we wanted to play FotM to arbitrary depths though? Its obvious at whom an endless progression dungeon is aimed at but having or not having ascended infused isn't going to affect you or me anywhere outside of the fractals and there is nothing in fractals past the point where infusion is mandatory that matters either (stats don't increase), you're just chasing skins and Guild Wars has been all about chasing skins through grind. This would be no different had they just tacked this onto exotics, so the issue is in the ascended items themselves and, acquiring them, is 50 ecto and 250T6 or 1850 relics and no ectos/T6 mats.

300-550 ecto is a grind for people who want to grind a dungeon that is designed for grinders to grind. That +5/10 agony isn't suddenly going to break a casual's world nor someone who has no interest in fractals.

View Postn00854180t, on 27 November 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

In any case, my point is I don't put any value on what they're saying now, because they've dumped their credibility into the toilet by saying one thing and doing another ("We don't make grindy games" -> introduces extreme grind) and also flip-flopping like a beached salmon ("there's minimal grind" -> "this is too grindy").

I just don't see why "now" is suddenly an issue. Grindy games has been in this game since launch (like I said, this was an issue at launch with the grind from rare to ascended because, at the time, supply for the needed materials was scarce and the dungeon system was shit; this was fixed but is still "grindy"). Flip-flopping is an issue which is why I said I will wait and see how they handle some of these things and, again, "too grindy" for once person is not "too grindy" for others. 50 ectoplasms isn't a grind in my opinion, its five days of playing content since ectos can come from just about anywhere and everywhere. Now, 250 T6 mats is another matter.

View Postn00854180t, on 27 November 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

I feel like the "oh yeah it's too grindy" response was just a PR response after he noticed people were calling him on his bullshit regarding the "there's minimal grind" post.

Zero is always a bullshit word, no doubt.

Still, now, we have them on record about the final tier. :P

#25 RAD

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:33 AM

While I understand where so many are coming from about a gear treadmill and that Anet is getting away from themselves and their manifesto (which I also agree with) why dont people see that this gear is really not that necessary? I only have 4 exotics: pants, shoulders, boots, and my longbow. I still do just fine in PvE and in explorable dungeons and I can still beat people 1v1 pretty easily as long I do good play wise.

My point is, yes its not exactly what Anet said there would be, but there is no reason to flip like people have. You can still be every bit viable with rares and exotics. The stat increase isnt very big from what Ive seen its based mostly on how you play. I wish people wouldnt see this and just be done because it is nowhere near as big of a deal as it is made out to be.

Now of course this is my opinion, but unfortunately I seem to be a minority.
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#26 paradiselight

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:43 AM

View PostRAD, on 27 November 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

why dont people see that this gear is really not that necessary?
Why The Stat Cap Is So Important

#27 xarallei

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:44 AM

View PostRAD, on 27 November 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

While I understand where so many are coming from about a gear treadmill and that Anet is getting away from themselves and their manifesto (which I also agree with) why dont people see that this gear is really not that necessary? I only have 4 exotics: pants, shoulders, boots, and my longbow. I still do just fine in PvE and in explorable dungeons and I can still beat people 1v1 pretty easily as long I do good play wise.

My point is, yes its not exactly what Anet said there would be, but there is no reason to flip like people have. You can still be every bit viable with rares and exotics. The stat increase isnt very big from what Ive seen its based mostly on how you play. I wish people wouldnt see this and just be done because it is nowhere near as big of a deal as it is made out to be.

Now of course this is my opinion, but unfortunately I seem to be a minority.

The problem I see is in the future. Maybe now things are ok. There aren't many Ascended pieces. But what about later? If a new player joins the game is it going to be a pain in the ass to catch up? If I quit the game for RL reasons and then come back later, will I be at a disadvantage? If I level another alt will I throw up my hands in frustration at the grind it takes to get geared out? If they admit they are going to keep adding these infusion upgrades it just has me worried for how things will be further down the line. One of the big draws of this game for me was a lack of a gear treadmill, so this is very troubling. I suppose the most we can do is wait and see....

#28 Millimidget

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:51 AM

View PostVar, on 27 November 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

Still, now, we have them on record about the final tier.
Except they said they'll be increasing stats within tiers (or a tier), so while we may not see a new distinct tier, we'll see sub-tiers within the currently existing tiers.

Which makes it a final tier in name only.

#29 Shatteredz

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:52 AM

View PostRAD, on 27 November 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

While I understand where so many are coming from about a gear treadmill and that Anet is getting away from themselves and their manifesto (which I also agree with) why dont people see that this gear is really not that necessary? I only have 4 exotics: pants, shoulders, boots, and my longbow. I still do just fine in PvE and in explorable dungeons and I can still beat people 1v1 pretty easily as long I do good play wise.

My point is, yes its not exactly what Anet said there would be, but there is no reason to flip like people have. You can still be every bit viable with rares and exotics. The stat increase isnt very big from what Ive seen its based mostly on how you play. I wish people wouldnt see this and just be done because it is nowhere near as big of a deal as it is made out to be.

Now of course this is my opinion, but unfortunately I seem to be a minority.

This. Sure, the stats increase is noticable, but Spvp will still be balanced(stats wise) and WvW is more about numbers & tactics then 5% more toughness.

People are overreacting(as always) to something that actually makes alot of people happy while the negative sides are minimal and barely noticable.

If ascended items where more or less a requirement for a dungeon, then yeah, I wouldnt like it either. But so far, I couldnt care less if somebody has the quiver or the guild backpack on his back.

And, no offense, But if you dont like progression in a game, then what the * are you doing in a MMORPG? Games like DotA and heroes of newerth are purely based on skills and tactics, while MMORPG have those combined with progression in stats. If you really want to play casually and still have the same stats ect, then a Moba, FPS or a RTS might be something for you. Not saying you aint allowed to play this game or a genre, but basically progression is what a MMORPG is about. If that stops, then most players will stop with it. And atm, exotics(and most cool looking skins) are piss-easy to obtain.

Edited by Shatteredz, 27 November 2012 - 02:05 AM.


#30 Var

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:54 AM

View PostMillimidget, on 27 November 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

Except they said they'll be increasing stats within tiers (or a tier), so while we may not see a new distinct tier, we'll see sub-tiers within the currently existing tiers.

Which makes it a final tier in name only.

I gathered that those increases were meant to be from the slots getting ever better upgrades.

So the item you wear never has to change, you only have to upgrade the slot item. And, again, I hold out hope that it will work more like how agony works. Your gear is "getting strong" but only relative to the dungeon.




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