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It's Official - Constantly Increasing Gear Stats Are Planned


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#1 Cosian

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:47 PM

After reading through the recent answers to the Chris Whiteside Ask Me Anything Highlights I could not not help but walk away with an empty pit in my stomach.

The take away here is that constantly evolving and improving gear stats are planned.  While Chris says there is no plan for another named Tier like Ascended he says clearly that an ongoing gearing progression is intended via things like infusions or other 'loot' that can improve existing Tier gear stats.  

OK so we don't have a new Tier .... just ongoing gear stat improvement to existing Tiers??  Somehow this is different?

Now Chris spins this by saying the gear curve will be shallow and the grind will be easy.  If I had a dollar for every time a game developer made those statements to rationalize their thought they needed gear progression in their game I would be a rich man.

I could care less what they do with PvE content and the gear treadmill there.  I would rather stick a sharp stick in my eye than run Fractals endlessly.  But all of this impacts WvW.

The reality here, just like in every other 'Open World' PvP game in the genre is that as time goes on, even a shallow curve between 'levels' becomes a mountain for the new player joining.  So a year down the road Ted wants to try out GW2 because he wants to get into some RvR style PvP.  What kind of experience does he have to look forward to?  What will be required to get viable?  Right now its a reasonably quick trip to 80 and Rares.  Exotics ... not much more effort.

But then we have Ascended ... then infused Ascended ... then Ascended with Super Level 2 infusions.  

When looking at this dynamic you have to look at the difference between a level 30 blue geared player and a top tier tweaked character after each is WvW buffed.  I can tell you I felt the difference between level 79 rares and level 80's exotics.  How much more gimped will a level 30 blue or green character feel against a fully tweaked toon in Level 5 Super Infused Ascended Gear?

Its so simple ... if the mountain is too high, the masses won't climb it and we will be left with a slowly dieing PvP game just like every other game in this genre with gear progression.

Since it is quite clear from Chris's comments that this where we are headed, is it time to lobby for WvW working like SPvP in terms of gear and stats?

I am going to the bar and drown my tears.







#2 Tumaras

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:25 AM

Chris's comments today just kind of confirmed what we already saw coming.  

The responses I've seen from players defending the ascended system have usually been either that 1) GW2 already had legendaries so adding ascended didn't change much, or 2) ascended gear doesn't help because the stat difference is small or it makes no difference because of gear scaling in wvw.  Both of those are very incorrect.  

Yes the game had legendaries, but show me anyone with a legendary ring or armor piece.  Legendaries were available for 1 slot, and it's been clearly stated that ascended gear will be rolling out for all slots.  Not to mention ascended being 10x easier to get. And on the 2nd item, anyone who thinks gear makes no difference in wvw due to scaling honestly hasn't done much wvw.  It may not matter in low-tier casual wvw, but   even a small gear difference is a noticeable advantage for wvw fights in t1/t2.  That difference isn't really even up for debate.  The best way I can describe it for people that only play casual wvw is that the difference is like in car racing.  The difference between a race car that goes 185 and 190 mph may seem small, but in Nascar that 5 mph is the difference between first and last place in a race.  In t1/t2 even a small difference is very noticeable.  The point being that this advantage is requiring high-end wvw players to grind pve dungeons for ascended gear to get that advantage and/or keep up with other players who do...which is wrong.  

Unfortunately it's become clear that wvw just isn't a priority for Anet.  By the time they realize how many players they are losing by not caring about wvw, the damage will have been done and those players simply aren't going to come back no matter what changes are made sometime down the road.

Edited by Tumaras, 27 November 2012 - 01:28 AM.


#3 Killminusnine

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:31 AM

This thread really bummed me out.  I will not be running PVE dungeons to get gear and once I feel sufficiently disadvantaged by this I'll be quitting the game I guess.

#4 Al Shamari

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:34 AM

I'm not 100% happy with it either, but at least we're not being left entirely in the dark about it, right? Those who aren't willing to deal with evolving gear can happily leave now without constantly having to speculate oncoming choices being implemented.

That wasn't phrased to be a "haterz can GTFO!" statement either. Simply saying, at least now the expectations are clear right? For better or worse.

#5 larkin54

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:36 AM

wow you guys can complain about anything... honestly you wanted to get a set of gear and never have opportunities for new gear ever? The only thing that needs to be balanced is sPvP and it as far as i know it is.

This ascended thing was blown way out of proportion and now people here are just moving onto a new thing to complain about , its like fox news the day after an election

#6 Al Shamari

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:40 AM

View PostKillminusnine, on 27 November 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

This thread really bummed me out.  I will not be running PVE dungeons to get gear and once I feel sufficiently disadvantaged by this I'll be quitting the game I guess.
You shouldn't have to, there are plans to make it accessible simply through progression in ZvsZvsZ as well if that's your fancy. I believe there are some big changes coming to that portion of the game, I would guess around Christmas.

Edited by Al Shamari, 27 November 2012 - 01:40 AM.


#7 Global_GW2

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:41 AM

At least Chris openly admitted that releasing Ascended in only one part of the game was a mistake, and one that he hopes they don't make again. Here's the exact quote ...

Quote

This ties back to what i was saying earlier in which Ascended Gear and really any progression related reward mechanism that impacts the world globally should be introduced (Where possible) across the game and inside the different type of player's activities specifically. Allowing players to continue doing the things they love without focusing player migration to a specific part of the world. The introduction of the Ascended reward in one part of the game was a mistake and one that i don't want to make again.

Soon Ascended Gear will adhere to these rules.

I personally don't mind some gear progression and power creep, as long as it's contained, and as long as I can obtain it in whatever area of the game I prefer at the time.

Edited by Global_GW2, 27 November 2012 - 01:41 AM.


#8 TGIFrisbie

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:42 AM

View PostAl Shamari, on 27 November 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

Simply saying, at least now the expectations are clear right?

Yes, the bait and switch has been admitted to now, feel better?

Like I have said many times on these forums I won't support this company going forward in any venue, same as I did once I had my fill of previous MMOs that had customer issues.  Continuing to support them doesn't do a damn thing other than show them they can continue to pull off crap like this.

Hate on me all you want, those of you who didn't research this game one bit other than to watch gameplay videos and salivate.  Those of us who expected what we were being sold only to have it switched out go our own way.  You get your gear grind in a game that is far below other gear grind games, if that is your desired venue.  Why play this crap gear grind when WoW will dominate the gear grind games?  Seriously.

#9 Killminusnine

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:42 AM

View Postlarkin54, on 27 November 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

wow you guys can complain about anything... honestly you wanted to get a set of gear and never have opportunities for new gear ever? The only thing that needs to be balanced is sPvP and it as far as i know it is.

This ascended thing was blown way out of proportion and now people here are just moving onto a new thing to complain about , its like fox news the day after an election

You've missed the mark entirely, of course.  WvW is PvP and should be balanced.  

They should introduce gear in every stat combination for the invader gear.  Make every kill drop 1 badge.  Add a new set of gear (or gear infusions) for each PvE gear tier added.

The reason why you've confused yourself is that you like completing scripted instances against opponents that can't think or react intelligently.  Those of us complaining about these sorts of issues like to test our mettle against other players with constantly varying tactics and strategies.  Go away, carebear.

#10 Alesthes

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:45 AM

The only thing which is official is that either you didn't read the ongoing AMA or you are intentionally telling lies.
Chris is openly addressing  WvW, even though that isn't his main occupation, and clearly stated that WvW players won't be forced in any way to run dungeons to gear up for WvW. The fact that Ascended gear is now available only true the Fractals dungeons is considered a mistake they want to correct very soon. He stated that at least 5 or 6 times.
The only appalling thing here is you ignoring all that and people blindly believing you...

#11 Anemone

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:48 AM

Can OP or anyone else quote exactly what says that "constantly increasing gear stats are planned"?

As far as I remember reading he answered multiple times that there is nothing coming after Ascended quality. And that legendary are also going to have ascended stats . Sure he adds about infusion, but that's only been know as a reduction for something specific (example really only need is for 20++ fractals, nowhere else in the game)

I would just like some facts before flair of assumption and outcry for no stable reason.

#12 Al Shamari

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:48 AM

View PostTGIFrisbie, on 27 November 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

Yes, the bait and switch has been admitted to now, feel better?

Like I have said many times on these forums I won't support this company going forward in any venue, same as I did once I had my fill of previous MMOs that had customer issues.  Continuing to support them doesn't do a damn thing other than show them they can continue to pull off crap like this.

Hate on me all you want, those of you who didn't research this game one bit other than to watch gameplay videos and salivate.  Those of us who expected what we were being sold only to have it switched out go our own way.  You get your gear grind in a game that is far below other gear grind games, if that is your desired venue.  Why play this crap gear grind when WoW will dominate the gear grind games?  Seriously.
I think you're being a little aggressive towards me when I wasn't at all bias one way or another. Did I state that I was happy with the addition of Ascended gear? No, not really. But, the way I look at it is this: they've admitted several faults, one of them being that they didn't "close this gap" between Exotic and Legendary gear upon release. Now, had Ascended gear been included upon release, I doubt many people would be complaining.

To put it bluntly, they already have my money if that's what they're after. I never have and never will spend money in the gem store, and seeing as I don't pay a subscription fee, I have as long as I damn well please to acquire Ascended gear and until then... I can still enjoy all the previous areas of the game that I was enjoying before they released it, using only my Exotics.

That's just how I feel.

Edited by Al Shamari, 27 November 2012 - 01:52 AM.


#13 Veltoss

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:50 AM

Quote

I would also like add that we have never said there would be no vertical progression. We do intent to focus on horizontal but we will have vertical progression moving forward with the focus on zero grind and a very low power curve.

Who cares, let's just freak the * out! That's what everyone is just begging to do, it seems.

#14 Sephirox507

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:53 AM

OHHHHH NOOOOO!!!! THEY ARE ADDING A STATS INCREASE EVERY *ING YEAR!!!! WE CAN NOT PASS 2 OR 3 MORE DAYS GETTING THE NEW THINGS IS TOO MUCH!!!!! A PAID FOR A GAME BOY GAME NOT A MMO!!!!!...

Older MMO Generations gotta evolve, MMO's are going to become more real than real life, it is an ONLINE REALITY. Also grinding for 2 days to get the new acc on Fractals did not kill anyone...they need to fix the loot and bring prices down. Everything else is just standard MMO.

#15 Hohen

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:58 AM

View Postlarkin54, on 27 November 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

wow you guys can complain about anything... honestly you wanted to get a set of gear and never have opportunities for new gear ever? The only thing that needs to be balanced is sPvP and it as far as i know it is.

This ascended thing was blown way out of proportion and now people here are just moving onto a new thing to complain about , its like fox news the day after an election

Very well said. It seems like every time something comes up, people would always complain about something.

View PostVeltoss, on 27 November 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

Who cares, let's just freak the * out! That's what everyone is just begging to do, it seems.

lol. Besides they did say new stuff are planned to be available not only in PvE but also in others like WvW.

Edited by Hohen, 27 November 2012 - 02:00 AM.


#16 larkin54

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:14 AM

View PostKillminusnine, on 27 November 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

You've missed the mark entirely, of course.  WvW is PvP and should be balanced.  

They should introduce gear in every stat combination for the invader gear.  Make every kill drop 1 badge.  Add a new set of gear (or gear infusions) for each PvE gear tier added.

The reason why you've confused yourself is that you like completing scripted instances against opponents that can't think or react intelligently.  Those of us complaining about these sorts of issues like to test our mettle against other players with constantly varying tactics and strategies.  Go away, carebear.

Typical fox news style response i see, hey thats fine i guess. Not that you have any idea about my play style or preferences. I enjoy WvW im just under no illusion that it will ever be balanced i play it and have a great time with non exotic gear, by most people measure here that makes me an idiot who should just quit the game.

WvW was stated as not being balancable by Anet get over it its like trying to balance BF3 it'll never happen because its inherently unbalanced because of the variety of people playing it, and on top of that why not just do both varied gear types and slowly add in more gear at the ascended level?

As far as i can see you're just complaining for the sake of it, cry more your tears are delicious.

#17 Killminusnine

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:17 AM

View Postlarkin54, on 27 November 2012 - 02:14 AM, said:

I enjoy WvW im just under no illusion that it will ever be balanced i play it and have a great time with non exotic gear

You should have said this earlier so I could have ignored you completely.  My guess on your play style and preferences was dead on.

View Postlarkin54, on 27 November 2012 - 02:14 AM, said:

that makes me an idiot who should just quit the game.

At the very least, you should quit berating real PvP players and their thoughts on how the gear bias effects them.


Bout time for you to be spamming LA for a Fractals group isn't it?  More scripted instances to conquer.

#18 Viesis

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:25 AM

View PostCosian, on 26 November 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

The take away here is that constantly evolving and improving gear stats are planned.  While Chris says there is no plan for another named Tier like Ascended he says clearly that an ongoing gearing progression is intended via things like infusions or other 'loot' that can improve existing Tier gear stats.

OK so we don't have a new Tier .... just ongoing gear stat improvement to existing Tiers??  Somehow this is different?

From what I gather, the infusion upgrade components exist only to provide resistance to the Agony condition which is unique to progression in the Fractals of the Mists dungeon.

Bearing in mind the fact that Ascended gear has only the infusion upgrade slot (which has no purpose beyond FotM) and making the assumption that additional upgrade slots will not be added, introducing higher tiers of infusion components (if that is even in ArenaNet's intentions) will likely be to provide additional resistance to Agony in higher levels of the dungeon.

As for what the rest means, only time will tell.

Edited by Viesis, 27 November 2012 - 02:26 AM.


#19 Green

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:33 AM

View PostAnemone, on 27 November 2012 - 01:48 AM, said:

Can OP or anyone else quote exactly what says that "constantly increasing gear stats are planned"?

As far as I remember reading he answered multiple times that there is nothing coming after Ascended quality. And that legendary are also going to have ascended stats . Sure he adds about infusion, but that's only been know as a reduction for something specific (example really only need is for 20++ fractals, nowhere else in the game)

I would just like some facts before flair of assumption and outcry for no stable reason.

That's a common problem with forum contributors here on Guru, they rarely link the source of the information they are hinging their arguments on.

Either

1) There is no source for their information so they'er simply making the crap up to make them selves seem smart/important
or
2) They haven't passed a middle school English course yet, so are unaware that linking sources of information is the only way one can credibly backup their arguments.

Which ever is the case, results in their wordy posts not adding up to a hill of beans imo.

To help the ignorant, see this thread for what it means to link the sources of your information, smart people do it.

http://www.guildwars...-help-leveling/

Edited by Green, 27 November 2012 - 02:33 AM.


#20 Killminusnine

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:40 AM

View PostGreen, on 27 November 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

That's a common problem with forum contributors here on Guru, they rarely link the source of the information they are hinging their arguments on.

Either

1) There is no source for their information so they'er simply making the crap up to make them selves seem smart/important
or
2) They haven't passed a middle school English course yet, so are unaware that linking sources of information is the only way one can credibly backup their arguments.

Dear Professor Green,

Hopefully, in between grading Internet forum homework turn-ins you could look into a third option:

3) Technically savvy people assume that others know how to use google.
https://www.google.c...s whiteside ama

#21 phani_kaushik

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:58 AM

Since they've mentioned that Ascended gear would be attainable in WvW as well, we better start saving those badges, as that is the only reasonable way for them to make it available in W3. That way, people don't have to grind fractals, and also many would be encouraged to show up for the battles. And I don't think it'd really matter what gear you have in such huge battle where there are so many players at a time, in the end it's all strategy, skills and numbers unless its a small skirmish.

#22 Goodhugh

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:01 AM

I don't understand why Anet (NCSoft really) is bothering to go down this route at all.  

Why even try keeping up with the Joneses (aka WoW) from a gear progression perspective?  Different forms of PvP offer far more replayability than any kind of PvE.  They should be accentuating the PvP aspects of this game.  That's the part of the game that should be getting the love.

Trying to appease the PvE'ers will amount to having to pop the pacifier back in the baby's mouth every couple of minutes.  No amount of new content will keep them busy for long.

#23 Killminusnine

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:05 AM

View Postphani_kaushik, on 27 November 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

And I don't think it'd really matter what gear you have in such huge battle where there are so many players at a time, in the end it's all strategy, skills and numbers unless its a small skirmish.

There are skirmishes all over the place orbiting the bigger battles constantly.  Near dolyaks, supply camps, and cutting off reinforcements during a siege.  That's an issue and that's why the gear matters.

WvW is usually *not* two big zergs grinding against each other.

#24 phani_kaushik

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:15 AM

View PostKillminusnine, on 27 November 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

There are skirmishes all over the place orbiting the bigger battles constantly.  Near dolyaks, supply camps, and cutting off reinforcements during a siege.  That's an issue and that's why the gear matters.

WvW is usually *not* two big zergs grinding against each other.

Thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't aware of that. /endsarcasm

In those situations I don't think it'd matter if you're going around with a group of players. If you're soloing, the same kind of threat would apply even if you're in full exotics. Sometimes you win a fight, sometimes you're killed. But yeah, as I said in my post, they would most probably make gear available with badges, so I don't think it'd be that difficult to acquire. That way even those who just do JP's also can eventually afford these gear. Atleast let the gear be made available in the first place to make any assumptions or crying over it.

#25 Green

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:18 AM

View PostKillminusnine, on 27 November 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

Dear Professor Green,

Hopefully, in between grading Internet forum homework turn-ins you could look into a third option:

3) Technically savvy people assume that others know how to use google.
https://www.google.c...s whiteside ama

Oh My Freaking God! WOW you made my day and put a smile on my face mate! I have already bookmarked this tread and will refer to it any time I'm blue and need a laugh.

It goes to show many of you seriously don't get it, lololol. You linked the search results man, instead of the page for which of any of the above posters based their points on.

The whole point of linking sources of information is to point the reader to the exact information they are referring to. To be clear the reader the person taking time out of their day to consider your argument, basically doing you a favor as they will support you if they understand your position, hence giving credibility to you and your argument.

Let me enlighten you. Granted, neither you or I are journalists, but linking the sources of info for casual forum contributors should follow the same basic principles.

To paraphrase..

Journalists should:

-Test the accuracy of information from all sources and exercise care to avoid inadvertent error. Deliberate distortion is never permissible.
-Identify sources whenever feasible. The public is entitled to as much information as possible on sources' reliability.
-Distinguish between advocacy and news reporting. Analysis and commentary should be labeled and not misrepresent fact or context.

Source: http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp

In my view if one takes the time to make a point, the very least they can do to ensure it's heard, is to back it up with facts.

Below is a link I've shared with many of my peers on tips to search Google effectively, trust me you will learn something if you check out!

http://mashable.com/...ch-infographic/

Edited by Green, 27 November 2012 - 03:29 AM.


#26 Killminusnine

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:24 AM

View Postphani_kaushik, on 27 November 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

Thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't aware of that. /endsarcasm

In those situations I don't think it'd matter if you're going around with a group of players. If you're soloing, the same kind of threat would apply even if you're in full exotics. Sometimes you win a fight, sometimes you're killed. But yeah, as I said in my post, they would most probably make gear available with badges, so I don't think it'd be that difficult to acquire. That way even those who just do JP's also can eventually afford these gear. Atleast let the gear be made available in the first place to make any assumptions or crying over it.

It certainly sounded like you weren't aware of it.  It sounded like you rarely WvW at all... that's why I posted to clear it up for you.  When you end a post with a whole bunch of things and then qualify it with, "unless its a small skirmish" it sounds like you're just trying to sweep the fact that skirmishes are the majority of WvW play... under the rug.  

The gear *will* make a difference and it will be noticeable, particularly in min/max builds.

View PostGreen, on 27 November 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

Oh My Freaking God! WOW you made my day and put a smile on my face mate! I have already bookmarked this tread and will refer to it any time I'm blue and need a laugh.

It goes to show many of you seriously don't get it, lololol. You linked the search results man, instead of the page for which of any of the above posters based their points on.

The search results that I posted will take you to the actual source the information.  You just need to figure out how to do it... and it certainly isn't complicated.  You are sitting here lecturing people on an Internet forum when you can't even use Google to quickly sift and locate the information that you seek.  

What a piece of work.

Never forget option #3, Professor.

#27 Ellipsis

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:29 AM

View PostAnemone, on 27 November 2012 - 01:48 AM, said:

Can OP or anyone else quote exactly what says that "constantly increasing gear stats are planned"?

As far as I remember reading he answered multiple times that there is nothing coming after Ascended quality. And that legendary are also going to have ascended stats . Sure he adds about infusion, but that's only been know as a reduction for something specific (example really only need is for 20++ fractals, nowhere else in the game)

I would just like some facts before flair of assumption and outcry for no stable reason.
"Hi Landeyda,
Thanks for taking the time to post your questions. Mike O will respond to the top question and I will respond to the bottom section.

Ascended Gear is designed to fill the 'Time' gap in regard to the distance between exotic and Legendary in terms of progression and in retrospect would have been better to have been rolled out pre launch.

I would also like add that we have never said there would be no vertical progression. We do intent to focus on horizontal but we will have vertical progression moving forward with the focus on zero grind and a very low power curve.

Please understand that we see the community as a 'whole' and therefore are not intending to design again for one specific type of player over another. This is a misconception and one that is not promoted by the team. We will continue to develop the game for the community as a whole offering game play that caters to lots of different types of players in a unified approach that will evolve over time based on feedback and the direction the team as a whole wants to take.
chris"

Here's another quote on the subject on introducing a new tier:
"1: I would prefer that we never say never but our intention is that in terms of 'Named Tier (Rarity) of Loot' Ascended will be with us for a long time and we will not introduce a higher tier of loot for the foreseeable future. There will be loot with different stats and new infusions within the current tier that will be spread over long periods of time (for example Ascended gear will be deployed over the whole of next year). 2: Ascended gear will be obtainable throughout the whole of the game aside from sPvP and in retrospect it would have been better to have rolled different acquisition methods out at the same time as the FotM."
From the AMA:
http://www.guildwars...ing-highlights/

#28 Tainted Queen

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:34 AM

The difference is so small I mean can anyone show that X added power increases your average damage outputs by Y amount, or A toughness drops incoming damage by B, or are people just guessing? Maybe I haven't looked hard enough but I haven't found anyone actually crunch the numbers. Before we start going crazy over how it makes a difference maybe we should see exactly how much of a difference it makes? Please don't just say it makes a difference if you don't have numbers to back you up then you're not giving what I asked for.

Now I have not done any number crunching so maybe I'm completely wrong but in my opinion a duel between an individual(s) with exotic gear and an individual(s) with ascended gear would come down to skill still. I do not think it is a large enough difference to show a correlation of any kind.

In a game I used to play a character that was shorter would attack faster, this was seen to be an unfair advantage and some people where upset about this particularly because one attack was repeatable as long as you had stamina, they stated that it was unfair to taller characters because shorter ones could fit in more of these particular swings. Eventually it was tested and it was discovered that the speed difference given from being shorter allowed you to swing 11 times in the time it took a tall character to swing 10 times. This knowledge ended up making the hight difference almost meaningless because you could only get up to 7 swings before you ran out of stamina. The difference meant so little that it made almost no difference and after that no one cared, and some people felt really dumb for making such a big deal out of it. The whole thing was very silly.

Edited by Tainted Queen, 27 November 2012 - 03:36 AM.


#29 Al Shamari

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:37 AM

View PostTainted Queen, on 27 November 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

The difference is so small I mean can anyone show that X added power increases your average damage outputs by Y amount, or A toughness drops incoming damage by B, or are people just guessing? Maybe I haven't looked hard enough but I haven't found anyone actually crunch the numbers. Before we start going crazy over how it makes a difference maybe we should see exactly how much of a difference it makes?
I believe there have been several people to crunch the numbers on Guru, I don't have a page to link you at the moment. I will do some scanning and if and when I find said numbers, I will edit my post and send you a personal message.

But, if the number crunchers are/were correct... the difference is and will be pretty surmountable. My memory wants me to say roughly a 15% boost. Don't take my word for it yet though.

#30 Alathon

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:37 AM

Gear always matters.  Numbers multiply the small differences, making them bigger rather than smaller.




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