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the mistakes Anet admitted

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#271 Sinful01


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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:00 PM

View PostCronos988, on 13 December 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

No offense, but this sounds a lot like you want to tell other people when they are having fun and when they aren't.
This whole VP debate has the tendency to devalue players that enjoy VP progressing by characterising them as mindless and claiming they aren't actually having fun, but are unable to recognize it (not that I am saying that you think like that or try to make that point, just that I feel there is a subtext like that to the general debate).

But when I think about it, I had a lot of fun farming areas back in Diablo 2, which was at that point purely "grinding". Was it smart to spend hours clicking away in a videogame? probably not. But does it follow it wasn't "really" fun?

No offense taken.  You're right - the VP/HP conversations can lead to arguments.  And frankly, some people are just douches and are going go try their best to devalue other people for one reason or another.  You'll find those kinda' people on both sides of any argument.

(Personally, if I say "I don't like doing dungeons 20x to grind for gear" when someone says "that is stupid, dungeons are fun!" I feel they're trying to devalue my opinion. lol)

Having the VP-vs-HP discussion is a lot like having a political discussion.  People "feel" their opinion, and it is nearly impossible to debate feelings and change minds.

We can all agree on some points though: Progression is fun.  Grind exists to slow down your rate of progression.
Therefore: "too much grind" becomes unfun.

What kind/mix of progression each person finds fun is personal. (Be it VP, HP, XBox style achievements, some of each, some other new kind, etc.)
That level of when it goes from "I'm having fun" to "I'm having fun but this feels too slow/grindy to get anywhere" and finally "screw this grind, I'm going to play something else" is obviously personal too.

Edited by Sinful01, 13 December 2012 - 09:03 PM.

#272 zabiku


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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:16 AM

I don't mean to be "that" guy or anything but I would like to point out something that may make sense for some or may just anger a lot, probably the latter because all people are doing is rage at someone who has a valid point or consistently make up points off baseless accusations for the sake of making their own point better than the one they are arguing with.

I go into this saying that I think GW series both games are great works of accomplishment. There is one issue that I have a hard time swallowing and accepting, one issue that a lot of people are throwing around like it is an excuse for the lacking quality and quantity of content in GW2 compared to GW1.

Guild Wars 2 has been in development for what a little shy of 4-5 years now? Correct me if I'm wrong that's a really long time for a game to be developed. Guild Wars 1 over the course of its life cutting itself shy of say 2007-2009 stopped content for itself and worked on overall balance and just making the game "as perfect as it could be". That means over the course of 4 years being as Guild Wars 1 released in 2005, it amassed a lot of content and experience for their team to know what it takes to make a solid game and produce some truly great content for its player base.

Now I would think that a game that wants to outshine its predecessor would of course amass all of its content and one go and expand on that. So sure Guild Wars 1 was out for 5 years until it reached its maturity and had all the content it had. Guild Wars 2 was in development for equally long with a team that knew what they were doing and knew what it took to make a game great for their fan base. Now the excuse I see is well Guild Wars 2 has just released and is relatively new so of course its not going to be chucked full of goodies and what not, but there is a rather poor difference between the quality of the content given to us between the two games.

Basically all I see people saying to me as a concerned fan of Arenanet and Guild Wars, that I'm stupid for expecting the same quality of game Guild Wars is NOW in its successor, despite the fact that this game was not pushed out like a quick smash and grab, despite the fact that it lacks it content compared to its previous title, and despite the fact that a lot of what Anet did right with GW1 they decided to break it in Guild Wars 2. I'm not complaining about how the game isn't instanced or there is no trinity or anything of the like. I'm simply talking about the idea of horizontal progression traded in for vertical and then being utterly lazy regarding said progression. I don't care what style of progression I'm given, I just want to have fun. I feel like Guild Wars 2 is lazy, yet still a great game because I still can't stop playing it, though that might by my own disillusion to the fact that I don't want the game to fail and I really don't come to play the game but rather play for my Guild and friends because if it wasn't for them I would've quit the game a month after release because there just simply anything to do after that. Sure that's a great quality for say a single player game, but I would expect that even without the fact that my friends aren't playing I could enjoy the game, but I cannot because I've ran with pug's and chat with random people but the game is just dull when it comes to me doing that.


I'm being told that I'm not supposed to expect a game's successor to be leaps and bounds better than the original game itself, instead I'm told that it took "X" years for it to reach its status, so now I can't expect the same quality from the sequel because I'm being unrealistic and too demanding.

Edited by zabiku, 14 December 2012 - 09:21 AM.

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