77 replies to this topic

[G L J]

I'd rather have someone that knows what their doing than a 'more preferred profession', but that said - I'll take a guardian, a warrior, and an elementalist as my top 3 picks (but I don't necessarily require stacking them)

[GSSB Lunaspike]

Drekor, on 28 November 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

FYI Mesmers put engineers completely to shame for healing.

Not sure about mesmers, but warriors heal so much. I don't have an engineer so I'm not sure how it stacks up. With a warrior shout/heal build I can throw out huge heals fast. Much higher healing than a support guardian, but different boons. That's why warrior/guardian groups are so damn great.

[Trei]

This is my list:

1) A tie between warrior, ranger, necromancer, elementalist, thief, engineer, mesmer and guardian.

2) -

3) -

4) -

5) -

6) -

7) -

8) -

[syndicates]

It really is reliant on the player, not the profession themselves.

Every profession can swap utilities and gear for situations so I wouldn't say there's any disliked profession. HOWEVER, certain team compositions are just too much for pugs which is the issue, not the profession itself.

[sanctuaire]

can confirm the group biases people have been saying
before, especially in trying to find a team.

in groups, people usually search for heavies first,
with thieves usually at the bottom rung of their choices.
it seems their usability in pve groups are inversely proportional
to their usefulness in pvp/wvw.

not that i share the same opinion, its just really what most
groups trying to get a final member up think by experience.
.

Edited by sanctuaire, 03 December 2012 - 09:09 AM.

[gance]

wow all the mesmer comments make me sad

so most players thinks mesmer is only for portal?

im a mesmer user  and my gf is an elementalist, i almost make her quit her elementalist after she saw my damages

1500(not crit) every 1 sec skill1
2.5k+ X 4 mind wack every15 secs
1k+ X 4 + confusion cry of frustration

not to mention other skill.
is that not good enough?

and sometime mobs attacks clone, saves some members from attacks.

and thiefs really depends on the player, my guildies i always play within fotm can handle his thief well and many time the only survivor in the team, he will run far the rez us

[GSSB Lunaspike]

sanctuaire, on 03 December 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

can confirm the group biases people have been saying
before, especially in trying to find a team.

in groups, people usually search for heavies first,
with thieves usually at the bottom rung of their choices.
it seems their usability in pve groups are inversely proportional
to their usefulness in pvp/wvw.

not that i share the same opinion, its just really what most
groups trying to get a final member up think by experience.
.

Thieves are crap in wvw too. They might be good at an ambush here or there, but they aren't the turning point in battles. Warriors, guardians, elementalist, mesmers are turning points.

What's a thief going to do? Run in with his spin and hope the other side is completely stupid and didn't bring a mesmer to wvw?

Out of all of the professions thief is the least vital to wvw victory, well maybe tied with rangers

Edited by GSSB Lunaspike, 03 December 2012 - 12:17 PM.

[Eliyahu]

madmaxII, on 28 November 2012 - 01:39 AM, said:

Surprisingly I have yet to see a group that rejects a player because of his character's profession. Don't worry about your class, better make sure you have a reasonable agony resist.

During the event weekend I was invited to a scale 10 group then kicked for being a mesmer.  I was baffled at the amount of stupid.

EDIT: And the group comp was two guardians and a warrior at that time.

Edited by Eliyahu, 03 December 2012 - 12:36 PM.

[Mister Stygian]

I could play any class there but ranger or engineer which I don't have maxed yet, but I use my mesmer most because I find it to be the most useful(best class by far for deep, swamp and harpy map while still strong on the other maps and is always going to be the best class against any boss)atleast up to 10.   Shout warriors and Guardians are always nice to have in a pinch though and really I wouldn't want more than one mesmer because chances are they are only doing condition removal and random boons instead of serious healing.

The map with the biggest mobs that are easy to kill is the dredge, and necro is weak against them.  Targeted damage against bosses is horrible on them too.  I wouldn't discriminate against any class, but that is one of mine I probably won't ever use in fractals.  I usually forget I have a thief because I only use it for storage on items I don't care about-wouldn't play it anywhwere anymore.

Edited by Mister Stygian, 03 December 2012 - 01:12 PM.

[CepaCepa]

First of all you won't have problem finding a group that would reject you, especially if you're starting a new character right now. It's hard enough for groups to find members (having to jump through several overflows etc) to do ONE particular level of fractal, and it will just get harder and harder over time (in November, the mass majority would be in the low levels. But over time, people will be spread out at different levels). So if you're a match, don't worry, they'll pick you up regardless of profession.

Having said that, here is a list of ranking through doing FotM with my own various characters as well as observing/running with a steady group of other professions:

1) Guardian --- Aegis, protection, regen, stability, condition removal, and wall of reflection. We always keep 1 shout guardian in our team. However, I'd add that guardians are so good at what they do that I find more than one guardian is somewhat excessive (dps is an issue, more so for staff shout/support guardians), just one good shout guardian would do.

2) Mesmers --- Portal, time warp, feedback, nullfield, and of course providing the whole party with decoys and mob-distractions. All of these would just be "fun and useful toys" if not for the fact that mesmers still is (after the nerf) one of the highest dps profession on single target, it's one of the few professions that can run 20+ fractals with full berserker (and infusion of course) without any death, provided that the group is decent.

3) Ranger --- I put ranger here for one thing and one thing only: healing spring. 15 sec duration and 30 second CD? It is godly, especially for later level fractals where heals and regen shines. The important thing is, providing such a wonderful water field does not require the ranger to sacrifice any of his/her damage. But of course, there are rangers that don't use healing spring (why?) and there are those who put their spring miles away from the group, but let's not talk about those cases.

4) Thief --- Thief is here for mainly one thing as well: blast finisher in the said ranger spring. Now, other professions can chain blast finish too, but none do so as easy and frequent as thieves. In a team with good communication, the ranger and thief can keep everyone healed up while not sacrificing too much dps.

5) Elementalist --- Elementalists have water fields too with staff, the reason that I'm ranking it lower than ranger is because of the complications. 6 second fields on 40 sec CD, or a 2 sec duration field, cannot compete with a 15 sec water field every 30 second. Ele fields are not very friendly to ally blast finishers due to short durations, hence after the nerf to Evasive Arcana their water field is not as potent as that of the rangers, by far I'd say. Eles can still provide an array of boons and can still stack might to a certain degree, and the damage isn't terrible, just that you know. I won't go into ele whining lol.

6) Warriors --- Banner warriors are wonderful, especially when there is a water field and everyone knows what to do with banners. I'm putting warrior here not because they do not have great potentials, but simply that there are so many warriors, you can't really spot the ones that are good...

7) Engineers --- Not saying engineers are useless, in fact grenadier engineers are great for many purposes. In general, the ranged sustained high aoe damage is sufficient in and of itself, not to mention the water fights. But by maximizing fire power, a grenadier engineer is pretty much good for one thing only: damage, all kinds of damage, aoe or single target, direct or condition damage, but just damage. Oh, and of course 25 stacks of vulnerability. Elixir double pistol engineer functions as the "conditon loader" of the group, as well as providing superb group condition removal on par with guardians. Support engineers are great, but suffers from two things: their water field is sub-par, such short duration means that it doesn't really allow team members to combo off of it in time. They provide boons much like most of the support professions, their crowd control abilities are on par with hammer wielders or elementalists, however that is exactly the thing: not especially unique and therefore doesn't shine through.

8) Necromancer --- I feel that Necros are somewhat in the limbo within fractal. Not to say that they're not good, they definitely still have some tricks and they can hold their own just fine, but the strength of the profession is rarely emphasized in fractal. Turning conditions into boons/transfer to the mobs sounds like a great idea in fractal, until you witness how quickly those conditions get reapplied and that the necro soon has all the utility skills on CD and still having a perma burn or 3-4 different conditions on himself... For some fights it is still amazing, but in general Necro are not given too much chances for performance in fractal.

[jejaj]

Thief S/D can be useful for team with Blind build (blind when go in stealth)

[Zerikin Loukbel]

Its more about the player then the profession in this game and I love that part of it. That being said runs heavy on tougher professions/builds tend to go better as I think its easier to not die horribly as a typical warrior/guardian.

[Strife025]

Easily Guardian at number 1. If anyone disagrees they haven't run high level fractals with a good guardian.

Wall of Reflection + Spirit Shield makes so many things insanely more manageable.

For instance:
1. Shaman Fractal: makes the lava elemental phase way easier by negating all of their attacks + shaman agony arrow for 40 seconds while you clear them out and get rid of his shield before he regens.
2. Harpy Fractal: harpies are a joke, negates Old Tom's projectiles for 30 seconds for the group which allows maximum melee dps to burn him down at higher levels before you tear charges run out. 2 guardians makes this a breeze. For the last boss, wall of reflection reflects the asuras agony attacks back at the golems if you position it right and instantly kills them at 20+. With 2 guardians this fight is extremely easy and done in under a minute with 0 risk.
3. Dredge: Makes dredge way easier by negating all of the ranged dredge damage.
4. Snow: makes the first fire event and elemental event way easier

Also negates many other ranged attacks like mossman axe, bloomhunger bolts, ascalon ranged mobs, etc.

I never ran wall of reflection or spirit shield on my guardian before fractals, because it wasn't really necessary for any other dungeon, although it does make GL a joke in Arah as well. Low levels can obviously be done without it, but when you get into the high 20s and stuff starts hitting hard, it makes things so much easier it's ridiculous.

2 guardian, 2 war, 1 mesmer build is insanely good for fractals. Gives you offensive and defensive shouts, 100% uptime on ranged negation, ability for huge burst dps, and boon stripping. I have 2 chars at 20+ fractals and this is the group I usually run or mostly run with guildmates and dedicated group. Things like ranger and necro just can't bring the tools that some of the other classes bring for high level fractals.

Edited by Strife025, 04 December 2012 - 12:51 AM.

[sanctuaire]

GSSB Lunaspike, on 03 December 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Thieves are crap in wvw too. They might be good at an ambush here or there, but they aren't the turning point in battles. Warriors, guardians, elementalist, mesmers are turning points.

What's a thief going to do? Run in with his spin and hope the other side is completely stupid and didn't bring a mesmer to wvw?

Out of all of the professions thief is the least vital to wvw victory, well maybe tied with rangers

if only a lot more share your opinion, thay way they wouldn't get nerfed that much.

.

[Trei]

For what its worth, I have always found it a fun and interesting challenge to try and work stuff out with any combination of professions that gets thrown my way.

It makes every encounter and every run potentially different in all kinds of ways.
That's why I will never kick anyone out based on his profession.


Efficiency != fun
In fact, it can be downright boring.

And yes, I would choose less efficiency and more varied gameplay over efficient speed clears even if it is my 500th run in a dungeon.

[GSSB Lunaspike]

sanctuaire, on 04 December 2012 - 02:07 AM, said:

if only a lot more share your opinion, thay way they wouldn't get nerfed that much.

.

Most thief nerfs are simply learning to play issues. They nerf the wrong things with thieves, and simply reduce build variety. I would like to see them encourage build variety.

Oh and before anyone claims "you are just a thief" etc.

My main is a warrior, or guardian I can't decide. My second most played is mesmer. Those are my mains. I have a thief, I wanted to learn to play against them. Outside of the culling bugs causing perma stealth thieves aren't an issue. They should fix that before doing any more nerfs/buffs. I can promise once they fix that peoples opinions on thieves will change big time.

Edited by GSSB Lunaspike, 04 December 2012 - 11:19 AM.

[sanctuaire]

GSSB Lunaspike, on 04 December 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Most thief nerfs are simply learning to play issues. They nerf the wrong things with thieves, and simply reduce build variety. I would like to see them encourage build variety.

Oh and before anyone claims "you are just a thief" etc.

My main is a warrior, or guardian I can't decide. My second most played is mesmer. Those are my mains. I have a thief, I wanted to learn to play against them. Outside of the culling bugs causing perma stealth thieves aren't an issue. They should fix that before doing any more nerfs/buffs. I can promise once they fix that peoples opinions on thieves will change big time.

while i agree on some real issues like culling, do not share opinions with other things that have led to continuous nerfs.
to be transparent, i main thief in all areas (pve, pvp, wvw), but i also have a warrior, ranger, and ele.
other classes on a low level.

while i do not agree that thieves in general aren't that useless as random groups quite picky in fractals want to
bring them to be, (they are good ressers and consistent blast combo finishers in pve, quick unprotected point raiders in wvw ---- in a coordinated group)
i do agree that they have far less group support skills than the other classes, especially in a random pug,
who couldn't care less and recognize that you keep activating group healing / group retaliation/ mob blinding
for the whole team.

the recent changes anet have been making as of late with the pve-pvp skill split has made me optimistically
cautious. like they did with gw1 (though their track record for pve balance among paragons/ dervishes are
subject to scrutiny)

thieves really have a far gap in terms of pve - pvp abilities, since their skills and sets are so much focused
on taking down regular human opponents, rather than monsters several levels above with unique skillsets.
.

Edited by sanctuaire, 04 December 2012 - 11:49 AM.

[GSSB Lunaspike]

sanctuaire, on 04 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

while i agree on some real issues like culling, do not share opinions with other things that have led to continuous nerfs.
to be transparent, i main thief in all areas (pve, pvp, wvw), but i also have a warrior, ranger, and ele.
other classes on a low level.

while i do not agree that thieves in general aren't that useless as random groups quite picky in fractals want to
bring them to be, (they are good ressers and consistent blast combo finishers in pve, quick unprotected point raiders in wvw ---- in a coordinated group)
i do agree that they have far less group support skills than the other classes, especially in a random pug,
who couldn't care less and recognize that you keep activating group healing / group retaliation/ mob blinding
for the whole team.

the recent changes anet have been making as of late with the pve-pvp skill split has made me optimistically
cautious. like they did with gw1 (though their track record for pve balance among paragons/ dervishes are
subject to scrutiny)

thieves really have a far gap in terms of pve - pvp abilities, since their skills and sets are so much focused
on taking down regular human opponents, rather than monsters several levels above with unique skillsets.
.

Well we are starting to get off topic. Consider that almost everything I say in respect to thieves is spvp/wvw oriented. I leveled mine from 10 to 80 in wvw, doing very little pve. I agree with you in most respects.

As for the topic at hand I have never one the fotm. I would like to, but finding a group seems impossible for me. I never got in on it at the start, I was doing wvw. Now I'm told I need to have a certain level to do it with any groups. Doesn't bother me though.

[Xunlai Agent]

I like rolling with the heavies because they have resilient armor by default which is not dependent on player skill (I charitably assume they are not wearing paper). Scholar classes and two a lesser degree the Adventurers need to be able to dodge more initially, though once you hit a certain FotM level everybody has to be able to evade damage irrespective of their armor class. I think the classes do not matter too much (though I prefer not to take Necromancers, Thieves or Ranger if I can help it) but more the ability of the players behind the keyboard. Yesterday I pugged with a signet warrior and an incredibly bad ranger, though the other players weren't great either. I never went down the entire time, except right at the end when we wiped after the Whammo ragequit after we asked her to stop dying all the time. I do not believe certain classes bring enough to the table to warrant their inclusion but among the remaining ones I would pick according to player skill.

1. Warrior and Guardian
2. Mesmer and Elementalist and Engineer

Unwanted: Necromancer, Thief and Ranger

[Dahk]

So, excuse me for something radical here, but when I choose members for my group, I don't care what class they bring.

I don't care how experienced or skilled they claim to be or can prove to be.

I choose people who are friendly, patient, and can communicate well.

When I create a group, I advertise a message that outlines that I am looking for members with these qualities and I try to do so in a light-hearted way.  I.e. "Looking for friendly, patient members for an expidition group to ransack a local mansion, bash bandits, ? and profit.  Send tell if interested in Caudecus Manor: Explorable"

If someone gives me a one word answer like "ok" or something like that as a pm, I generally ignore it.

I run with my fiance and generally bring at least 1 other friend with me, so we try to keep up some relaxed chat and joke about stuff as we go through the run.  Targets to be focused are marked and fights with distinct mechanics are explained for anyone who hasn't encountered them before.

Now, to a lot of people, this is a bunch of fluffy newb pandering, but that's not really the case.  By creating a friendly and relaxed atmosphere, players are more willing to speak up and ask questions or to give advice which means that we can overcome obstacles by sharing experience often instead of wiping and learning the hard way (not that we don't ever wipe of course, it happens to everyone at times).  We also gain more than just loot at the end of the run.  We succeed AND we have a good time.

However, I gotta give credit to my fiance for exposing me to this group-creating philosophy.  It takes more effort to run a group this way as opposed to the standard "lfm CM:Exp" method of advertising, but it's infinitely more effective at both clearing the dungeon and making the process enjoyable.

[coglin]

Thaddeuz, on 30 November 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

The necromancer is the second profession with a true pulling skill (spectral grasp). Its also a blinding machine. With the Plague Elite skill you can use Plague of darkness giving 20 second of almost continious blind. Against a high dps foe and group of foe, it give your group enough time to kill the biggest threat before the blind run out.

That isn't true. It is simply one of several. Engineer has "magnet", which is a 1200 range pull.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnet

Edited by coglin, 05 December 2012 - 07:21 PM.

[Piteous]

I'm a necro...hear me rawr? I love my necro...sure it needs some love from the devs but it is ok.

[zeth006]

NuclearDonut, on 28 November 2012 - 01:43 AM, said:

Guardians/Warriors. I always have the fastest runs when my group is made up of nothing but Guardians and Warriors.

This. Warriors were built to take damage, but based on game mechanics, a warrior with high toughness will be targeted the most. The one problem I have with CoF is that my toughness armor doesn't do any miracles against constant burns or monster groups singling me out. This is where Guardians seem to really help in making up for this weakness and allowing me to unleash full-on DPS waves at will.

Played war full-time until recently and having played mesmer for a few dungeon PUGs, I've come to appreciate that the classes have their strengths and recently.

Edited by zeth006, 05 December 2012 - 09:45 PM.

[Linfang]

I don't care what profession they are. As long as they are running the fractal lvl I am on, and don't disconnect/quit I am good. They could wear paper bag armor and beat people with a wet noodle. I DONT CARE

[Thaddeuz]

coglin, on 05 December 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

That isn't true. It is simply one of several. Engineer has "magnet", which is a 1200 range pull.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnet

Ok you got me on that one. The worst part is that my main char. is a Engineer ; ). But i double check just to be sure and no other profession have real pull.

- I intentionnally choose to ignore any underwater or downed skill
- Elementalist ''Magnetic Shield'', Guardian ''Pull(Binding Blades)'' and Messmer ''Into the Void'' all pull several foes in approx. 600 range. It doesn't allow you to focus on only 1 target.
- Elementalist ''Magnetic Grasp'' pull yourself to your target and dont pull the target to you.

So the three true pull skill are
- Thief ''Scorpion Wire''
- Necromancer ''Spectral Gasp''
- Engineer ''Magnet''

[Orikx]

I see a lot of people not liking thief. They have arguably the best blind in the game which is huge dmg mitigation. They also have the best blast finisher in the game. While being able to put out very good DPS. Lots of thieves run glass canon though and don't get out of stuff so they die fast and a lot. They also get access to a Dark field that is good for Life Steal finishers and is great for rezing someone.

That being said. I prefer my Mesmer over my thief because it's more my play style. I love bring Ethereal fields to the fights and some cool utilities like feedback.

[Wicklow]

I play a necro so I'm a little biased. I think people don't give the Amount of dmg we can do any credit yes we have no burst however I can do about 2100. Sustained dps with only the bleeds from my scepter. That doesn't even count for the poison or the direct dmg.  Ether way, we can seriously pump out the dmg, and with epidemic, when adds spawn, now 6 mobs are taking that much damage.  And we have great survivability and good cc with fears and cripple and chilled.  

The bottom line is this.  The profession doesn't matter.  What matters is the player.  If you play your class correctly relative to the way it is traited and the utility's you have chosen, any class can be an invaluable combo.  I have played with amazing thieves and terrible guardians. And I think that engineers have the best healing and tanking ability in game.

[Orikx]

Part of the reason I think people tend to shrug off condition based damage is that it's so easy to get max stacks with out a condition spec'd person in your group.

So many people have bleed on crit or other types of traits that it's very easy to get 25 stacks of bleed on a boss. Heck my Mesmer can get 10-15 stacks alone very easily if I am not even spec'd to try to do condition. That is just from a pure crit based build.

Combine that with stuff that you have to do direct dmg too (ATM I can't think of anything in FoTM) makes for a tough time for Necro's. That being said I do think they still bring some interesting utilities to the table.

[MrForz]

I've never seen teams requiring an Engineer, but I always feel like being a welcome addition to any composition just because I can reequip to whatever is needed. A team full of Guardians gave me the opportunity to switch to glass canon and Grenadier, balanced teams get me to play Pistol/Shield, DPS based teams get me to play with the Elixir Gun once in a while.

I tend to despise having bad Thieves in my team as I don't have a whole belt of reviving Elixirs but that's pretty much it.

Edited by MrForz, 06 December 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[Thaddeuz]

Orikx, on 06 December 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

Part of the reason I think people tend to shrug off condition based damage is that it's so easy to get max stacks with out a condition spec'd person in your group.

So many people have bleed on crit or other types of traits that it's very easy to get 25 stacks of bleed on a boss. Heck my Mesmer can get 10-15 stacks alone very easily if I am not even spec'd to try to do condition. That is just from a pure crit based build.

Combine that with stuff that you have to do direct dmg too (ATM I can't think of anything in FoTM) makes for a tough time for Necro's. That being said I do think they still bring some interesting utilities to the table.

At first i wanted to try a condition dmg build for my Ele and then in a TA run i realize that the Necromancer is putting a constant 20 stack of bleed and that the rest of the group put this to the 25 maximum without me. That pretty much mean that my bleed is pretty much usuless. The things is that if Condition Duration is great when soloing, its really not that great when your in group since that's is on of the main way to stack more condition.

Even there, a high number of Condition Damage is still contributing a great deal even at maximum stack and i think that condition based build should focus not only on 1 condition. In the TA run with the 25 bleed stack, i simply switch to fire attunement and begin to stack burning.

You should also don't have too much condition dmg build character in a group for the same reason.