15 replies to this topic

[Karuna]

First off, this is just a generalized rant (a civil rant of course) that is not aimed at any particular groups or individuals.  Rather, these are my observations on three WvW topics/accusations that have already been driven into the ground and beyond to the point where there is no longer any chance of meaningful discussion.

Lets start off with the big one:

1)  2 vs 1

This may have started even earlier than I remember, but ever since the start of three-day matches I have seen posts where one server accuses the other two of running a purposeful 2 vs 1 campaign.  A month and a half later and people in all WvW tiers are still pointing fingers and tossing out the 2 vs 1 accusation.

WvW(vW) is 1 vs 1 vs 1.  It was designed that way for a reason.  For those people who played GW1, think back to the maps in Heroes' Ascent where three teams faced each other.  I don't recall seeing it listed anywhere in the rule book that it in WvW it is required that a server always makes sure to apply an equal amount of pressure on each of the other two servers that they are facing - - guess why?  Because no such rule exists and it is absurd to even suggest anything of the sort.

Making WvW a three-way match instead of a direct server vs server adds an extra element of strategy.  It's fun that way.  Smart commanders look for ways to pit the other two servers against each other.  Lets stop complaining about it.


2)  Camping the Jumping Puzzles

People seriously still whine about (such and such server) is camping the jumping puzzle! -- even going so far as to post screen shots and videos . . . Yeah?  No kidding?  So what?  There isn't any sign posted outside the entrance to the puzzle that says 'PvP Ends Here!'  I won't deny that it can be slightly jerk-ish to deny other people entrance to the puzzle, but it is also part of the game (and kind of fun).  Think of it as an extra little thing to get your opponent's blood boiling.

Look at it this way:  you see all those various traps in the EB puzzle that players can control?  Yeah, Anet didn't just place those there for decoration.  There is really no difference between that and placing arrow carts up above the chandelier room.  Yeah, it makes people mad, but that is one of the ups and downs of competition.

3) Someone on One of the Opposing Servers is Cheating

Look, I get that exploits are bad and they should be fixed as quickly as possible  The proper course of action is to report them to anet and hope that they will be on the ball about making corrections.  Posting here that 'X player from blah blah server/guild has been caught hacking' is detrimental to the game.  Too often people use it more of a tactic to try and blackball another server than as constructive feedback for arenanet.  Every server represents a community of many thousand players.  It is quite possible that some of them have more guilty people than others but no server is comprised 100% of pure and true players and it is useless to try and identify an entire community based upon the actions of a few.


In closing, let me say that I don't actually expect this to change anything.  The type of people who keep posting about the above three topics are never the people who go 'Oh, ok.  I get it now."  But, at least I had the opportunity to get this off my chest.

That being said . . Happy Holidays everyone!

Edited by Karuna, 28 November 2012 - 08:50 AM.

[MrZero]

I agree with one and two but 3...


Let's just ignore it. It will go away. RIGHT?

[AlixIcebane]

people still wvw? interesting...

[Senatic]

MrZero, on 28 November 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

I agree with one and two but 3...


Let's just ignore it. It will go away. RIGHT?

That is so not what he said.

"The proper course of action is to report them to anet and hope that they will be on the ball about making corrections."

And I agree entierly. You posting a video of a hacker accomplishes absolutely nothing positive what so ever. All you're doing is spreading suspicion and fear mongering, and then people start seeing hackers everywhere.

[zj12345]

It is just pointless to announce the server involved on this forum, for the majority of the people on those server are blameless. The individuals involved are probably out to troll, since there was no tactical purpose (the tower was taken back within 5 minutes), and I think getting people in an uproar on these forums would serve their purpose more.

[Karuna]

Please don't post pointless things in my 'pointless' thread   Jeeze . . .

[Corsair]

Before this thread gets bad, a reminder. Keep it CIVIL and refrain from painting an entire community with the same brush.

We're all in this together, please try to remember that other people are not inhuman slug monsters who want to steal your land and your women. /hyperbole end

[beadnbutter32]

So we should all be brown nosing fan boys.  If Anet designed it, it is beyond criticism according to the OP, end of discussion, NOT.
These are all awful design factors that many players when they first see them, simply say, that sucks, but people like the OP want these criticisms to vanish, because they feel feels it is pointless since Anet is beyond reproach from their perspective.
Maybe if the brown nosers would suck it up and stop trying to silence constructive criticism, there would be no more posts like the OP here.  Stop trying to silence criticism.

Moderator, so it's ok for a fan boy to smear those who criticize, but not ok for them to respond in your book.

Edited by beadnbutter32, 28 November 2012 - 12:29 PM.

[Karuna]

beadnbutter32, on 28 November 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

So we should all be brown nosing fan boys.  If Anet designed it, it is beyond criticism according to the OP, end of discussion, NOT.
These are all awful design factors that many players when they first see them, simply say, that sucks, but people like the OP want these criticisms to vanish, because they feel feels it is pointless since Anet is beyond reproach from their perspective.
Maybe if the brown nosers would suck it up and stop trying to silence constructive criticism, there would be no more posts like the OP here.  Stop trying to silence criticism.

Moderator, so it's ok for a fan boy to smear those who criticize, but not ok for them to respond in your book.

Criticism is perfectly fine.  You can disagree with me, disagree with anet . . . disagree with whatever you want . . . and that is fine.

The point I pose to you (which you can also disagree with if you want) is that if you disagree with the three points which I list, then your argument is nothing more than needless whining and you are actually hurting the community with the clutter of your needless retreading of meaningless finger-pointing.

Hey, I could be wrong!

[Senatic]

beadnbutter32, on 28 November 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

So we should all be brown nosing fan boys.  If Anet designed it, it is beyond criticism according to the OP, end of discussion, NOT.
These are all awful design factors that many players when they first see them, simply say, that sucks, but people like the OP want these criticisms to vanish, because they feel feels it is pointless since Anet is beyond reproach from their perspective.
Maybe if the brown nosers would suck it up and stop trying to silence constructive criticism, there would be no more posts like the OP here.  Stop trying to silence criticism.

Moderator, so it's ok for a fan boy to smear those who criticize, but not ok for them to respond in your book.

You come into this thread, generalizing people, insulting them, being offensive and calling people names for no good reason and then expect anyone to take your opinion seriously? Just because someone defends a system does not make them a fanatic, it does not make them dogmatic and it does not make them unreasonable. Neither does it make them wrong. Throwing around hyperbole does not make you right either, and having a different opinion does not make you hip or smart.

And who said your criticism was constructive? You?
Yea, think about that for a moment.

There is no reason to complain about people playing by the rules, pointing fingers at someone for doing something that is completely allowed is incredibly pointless. It's like complaining someone tackled you in hockey, or took the ball from you in football.

If you want to talk about the value, or lack thereof, of WvW being 1v1v1 go right ahead. No one is stopping you from being critical of the way the game is designed. But coming in here and telling the OP that he is a "Brown nosing fanboy" simply for trying to get people to stop complaining to other players about a completely legitimate tactic is beyond arrogant and beyond insulting.

If anything you are displaying the characteristics of a fanatic, not the OP. I'm guessing I'll get a infraction for saying this but someone needed to speak up.

Edited by Senatic, 28 November 2012 - 02:19 PM.

[Impmon]

May as well add the topic of this post as things that are useless to complain about.  People will ALWAYS complain about these things in online games where pvp is involved.

Ever since I played quake 2 people have been hacking online.  Editing character models to better identify them in a match,  zbot & aimbots, see through walls etc.  People will always cheat & people will always complain about it.  That is all.

Edited by Impmon, 28 November 2012 - 10:34 PM.

[NotKMoose]

But complaining is so much more fun

[Reisa]

NotKMoose, on 29 November 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

But complaining is so much more fun

New thread title!  "Things That Never Happened to Me But I Am Sick of Other People Complaining About"

Let's complain about the complainers.

[GSSB Lunaspike]

Karuna, on 28 November 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

First off, this is just a generalized rant (a civil rant of course) that is not aimed at any particular groups or individuals.  Rather, these are my observations on three WvW topics/accusations that have already been driven into the ground and beyond to the point where there is no longer any chance of meaningful discussion.

Lets start off with the big one:

1)  2 vs 1

This may have started even earlier than I remember, but ever since the start of three-day matches I have seen posts where one server accuses the other two of running a purposeful 2 vs 1 campaign.  A month and a half later and people in all WvW tiers are still pointing fingers and tossing out the 2 vs 1 accusation.

WvW(vW) is 1 vs 1 vs 1.  It was designed that way for a reason.  For those people who played GW1, think back to the maps in Heroes' Ascent where three teams faced each other.  I don't recall seeing it listed anywhere in the rule book that it in WvW it is required that a server always makes sure to apply an equal amount of pressure on each of the other two servers that they are facing - - guess why?  Because no such rule exists and it is absurd to even suggest anything of the sort.

Making WvW a three-way match instead of a direct server vs server adds an extra element of strategy.  It's fun that way.  Smart commanders look for ways to pit the other two servers against each other.  Lets stop complaining about it.

Except Anet thought it would be the second and third teaming up to take out the first place guy. If they had been a little smarter they would have realized, that's not how things work. How it works is that if the second place team can't take first then they just agree to work with the first place in order to keep third down. While first place will ignore second for the most part, allowing them to hold their position. Usually third place teams don't have the power of first/second place. So they have to rely on tactics to win. Those don't matter when an already superior/equal population server teams up with another one to "keep you in your place". The system wasn't thought out well enough. Adding to it is free transfers causing all kinds of chaos (people forcing  the siege cap by placing rams etc).

Quote

2)  Camping the Jumping Puzzles

People seriously still whine about (such and such server) is camping the jumping puzzle! -- even going so far as to post screen shots and videos . . . Yeah?  No kidding?  So what?  There isn't any sign posted outside the entrance to the puzzle that says 'PvP Ends Here!'  I won't deny that it can be slightly jerk-ish to deny other people entrance to the puzzle, but it is also part of the game (and kind of fun).  Think of it as an extra little thing to get your opponent's blood boiling.

Look at it this way:  you see all those various traps in the EB puzzle that players can control?  Yeah, Anet didn't just place those there for decoration.  There is really no difference between that and placing arrow carts up above the chandelier room.  Yeah, it makes people mad, but that is one of the ups and downs of competition.

Who's moronic idea was it to try and force pve players into wvw anyway? It's been idiotic in other games, and guess what? It's idiotic in GW2. Makes absolutely no sense that they are literally trying to force players into wvw that don't want to pvp. I don't like pve, and yes I'm getting forced into it. They should let people play how they like. Keep the jumping puzzles in the pve along with the rest of the b/s map stuff. Only noob pvp players that lack skill want to go prey on pve players. Those people aren't there for a challenge, or fun. Same kind that cheat.

Quote

3) Someone on One of the Opposing Servers is Cheating

Look, I get that exploits are bad and they should be fixed as quickly as possible  The proper course of action is to report them to anet and hope that they will be on the ball about making corrections.  Posting here that 'X player from blah blah server/guild has been caught hacking' is detrimental to the game.  Too often people use it more of a tactic to try and blackball another server than as constructive feedback for arenanet.  Every server represents a community of many thousand players.  It is quite possible that some of them have more guilty people than others but no server is comprised 100% of pure and true players and it is useless to try and identify an entire community based upon the actions of a few.


In closing, let me say that I don't actually expect this to change anything.  The type of people who keep posting about the above three topics are never the people who go 'Oh, ok.  I get it now."  But, at least I had the opportunity to get this off my chest.

That being said . . Happy Holidays everyone!

I've seen the same argument from the people on my server when they found out I reported them. It's real simple, if you cheat you should get a perma ban. Further though, it's each servers duty to police it's players. Only by calling them out, and letting everyone know "hey you guys are getting a bad rep because of X cheating" can they fix it. They will have to fix it, or else face being branded as cheaters. Therefore a server will eventually have to choose between having any credibility, and using cheats. If someone on a server offered to open a port and no one took it, then that person won't even see a need to cheat. Saves Anet the time.

[CalmLittleBuddy]

AlixIcebane, on 28 November 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

people still wvw? interesting...

Thanks for the useful contribution.

OP, I agree totally. I'd add a bunch of stuff that's getting tired to hear, but I'm so tired my brain is all stuck up like chicken wings. Something about WvW excuses for player population drops and claiming there's NO skill involved at all. Hate that. I know a 5 man group that can take down any 15 man group. Even a 3 to 1 pop advantage can be fought off. Not beaten, but fought off. NO EXCUSES for losses anymore. You lose, you lose.

[MonsterDemon]

2 vs 1 is expected since it's the way how it was designed to be...  Everyone should deal with it.  

Camping jumping puzzle, no need for complaints.  People with brains would know why it's being camped.  The server already secured victory and racking up on seige.  The losers who know they already lost the match before it even ended before midweek and decides it's better to pick on PVE or undergeared folks with their 5 vs 1.  This way, they feel good that they are showing their big stick one way or another.

As for cheating, just report it.  It will eventually get fixed.