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thief finishing move in stealth

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#1 chuckles79

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:44 PM

the number one BS thing that ANet could fix today to make the game better.

I like thieves, I'm leveling one now. but don't they have enough love at this point?  Can we stop heaping benefits on them?

No more stealth finishes, it's utter crap.

Edited by chuckles79, 28 November 2012 - 05:45 PM.


#2 Drtrider

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:50 PM

Thieves are not the only ones that do this. Stop hating on thieves. I've seen this done by mesmers, engies, and even warriors.

If this is the case, then no class should be able to stealth-stomp. Or even better, how about an ele using mist form to stomp hmm?

Not to come across as harsh, however there are multiple ways people get solid stomps be it stability, stealth, mistform, or numerous other ways. Just pointing out the fact that thieves are not the only one that can do such acts.

Edited by Drtrider, 28 November 2012 - 05:53 PM.


#3 Eon Lilu

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:17 PM

Get rid of stealth stomp for all classes.

#4 Orikx

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:19 PM

Through the use of combo fields all classes can do this and I have seen many organized groups use combo fields for this tactic. It's not specific to thieves and it is much easier to stop some of the other ways of finishing people. While stealth they can still be pushed, pulled, killed etc. to stop the finish. There are skills that can be used to make it so none of the above CC can stop you from finishing a player. Those skills do not need nerfed either.

It's smart tactics. This game is about skill and tactics. Not dumbing it down so that it's two groups standing in a line taking turns hitting each other other. There are plenty of games out there like that. Perhaps OP should play one of them. May I suggest Tic Tac Toe online.

Edited by Orikx, 28 November 2012 - 08:19 PM.


#5 Symbiont

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:35 PM

i see no solution, so stealth stomp stays, works as intended.

#6 kryx

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:20 AM

Not sure what the concern with stealth stomp is when there's mist form stomp, elixir stomp, etc.

You cannot even stop the latter stomp styles.

#7 Lailendil

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:27 AM

Every class can do it? Riiiight!

View PostDrtrider, on 28 November 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Thieves are not the only ones that do this. Stop hating on thieves. I've seen this done by mesmers, engies, and even warriors.

If this is the case, then no class should be able to stealth-stomp. Or even better, how about an ele using mist form to stomp hmm?

Not to come across as harsh, however there are multiple ways people get solid stomps be it stability, stealth, mistform, or numerous other ways. Just pointing out the fact that thieves are not the only one that can do such acts.

What's the cooldown on the other classes? NONE of them can do it as easily and as often as the thieves with CnD.
Don't compare peanuts with watermelons!

#8 RandolfRa

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:52 AM

View PostOrikx, on 28 November 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

Through the use of combo fields all classes can do this and I have seen many organized groups use combo fields for this tactic. It's not specific to thieves and it is much easier to stop some of the other ways of finishing people. While stealth they can still be pushed, pulled, killed etc. to stop the finish. There are skills that can be used to make it so none of the above CC can stop you from finishing a player. Those skills do not need nerfed either.

It's smart tactics. This game is about skill and tactics. Not dumbing it down so that it's two groups standing in a line taking turns hitting each other other. There are plenty of games out there like that. Perhaps OP should play one of them. May I suggest Tic Tac Toe online.
Its not smart tactics. It's just a simple chain even a monkey would know how to use. I also think that it should be balanced sonehow as some classes don't have any downed skills to counter that kind of tactic. Currently just eles, mesmers and thiefs can.

Personally I sometimes use distortion if I have to finish a foe at the middle of a zerg. But usually I don't use the stomp move at all because it looks so stupid.

Edited by RandolfRa, 29 November 2012 - 12:01 PM.


#9 MrForz

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:30 PM

Attempting to stomp will break your stealth, there. solved.

I can understand the frustration though. Especially cooldowns, fighting against good people will often mean that if you win, you won't have much things that are off cooldowns, especially not the game changing elites. I have many ways to prepare a stomp/finish off: Throw Elixir S, Elixir S itself, Elixir X, or Supply Crate + AFK. And rare are the cases where I still have my elite in store after a fight.

Same for Elixir S, it's just like Mist Form. If one didn't use that during the fight (I don't know, avoiding a certain attack and such), you probably deserve to have it on your face when downed. CnD has no cooldown, is heavily abused during fights, and is still abused once you're downed.

#10 Carebear_Sss

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:58 PM

Stealth stomp is not OP, since you can deal dmg to the player and kill him easily. :P

And the ppl above me got the point. When tough fight happen and you were able to save ability such as mist form, you can stom with its not OP. Since you could avoid dmg in fight earlier and win it with higher HP pool. You just get outplayed all the time and you are looking for excuse.
Safe stomp OP, next i see dodge removed from the game O.o huehueuhue

#11 Orikx

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:10 PM

View PostCarebear_Sss, on 29 November 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Stealth stomp is not OP, since you can deal dmg to the player and kill him easily. :P

And the ppl above me got the point. When tough fight happen and you were able to save ability such as mist form, you can stom with its not OP. Since you could avoid dmg in fight earlier and win it with higher HP pool. You just get outplayed all the time and you are looking for excuse.
Safe stomp OP, next i see dodge removed from the game O.o huehueuhue

You make a valid point. I'm guessing the people that have a problem with this get downed a lot and are looking for one more excuse that they got beat. Since I rarely get downed by thieves and everyone has access to this through combo fields I see no problem with it.

View PostRandolfRa, on 29 November 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Its not smart tactics. It's just a simple chain even a monkey would know how to use.

I've seen organized Engi's running together using combo fields to stealth rez/down everyone they need too. That takes organization to time cool downs/abilities right. Nerfing stealth finishing isn't a thief nerf it's a nerf to a mechanic that does not need to because it's not game breaking. There are tons of ways to counter it and many other ways to finish with immunity. If you are getting beat in a 1 on 1 and have no way to counter it. Tough luck. The game isn't balanced around 1v1's and you got beat anyways so you deserve to be finished.

Edited by Orikx, 29 November 2012 - 05:10 PM.


#12 Korra

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:40 PM

Why does people complain about this?  Stability stomp is way more safe.

Edited by Korra, 29 November 2012 - 07:41 PM.


#13 Asomal

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:07 PM

Not every thief build runs dagger off hand you know... While you can still interrupt/attack/knockdown the thief in stealth, you cannot do the same to an invunerable elementalist/engineer. And btw, pistol off hand offers a far more powerful tool to finish your foe (blinding powder).

#14 Soki

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:10 PM

Mesmers can do it, too.
Mesmers and Thieves can both give people ways to do it.
If you leap or blast Smoke fields, you can stealth yourself or give AoE stealth.
And aside from all of that, Stability stomp is far harder to counter.

I think someone's just a bit upset about Thieves in general.

Edited by Soki, 29 November 2012 - 08:11 PM.


#15 Ruufio

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:19 AM

View PostKorra, on 29 November 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Why does people complain about this?  Stability stomp is way more safe.

If they nerf Necros stability stomp/res that only has a 10s cooldown I'll probably not play GW2 anymore.

#16 Featherman

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:49 AM

Stealth stomps are bad, but you know what's worse? Quickness stomps. Thieves have this too btw. The real problem though is that there are so many ways to cheese downed opponents in this game, trivializing the down state in PvP. ANet can fix this by disabling buffs for stompers, and why they haven't looked into this is beyond me.

#17 Drtrider

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:21 AM

View PostLailendil, on 29 November 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Every class can do it? Riiiight!


What's the cooldown on the other classes? NONE of them can do it as easily and as often as the thieves with CnD.
Don't compare peanuts with watermelons!

My point still stands, there are stomping techniques that every class can use. And if they don't they have other unique abilities.
Taking away stealth on a thief is like removing a mesmer's clones. Its they're unique thing that sets them apart.


View PostFeatherman, on 30 November 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

but you know what's worse? Quickness stomps. Thieves have this too btw

Every class can have this.

Edited by Drtrider, 30 November 2012 - 03:47 AM.


#18 Featherman

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:26 AM

Nope. Only Thieves, Warriors, Mesmers and Rangers. Mesmers can grant quickness in a large area.

And sure, forcing players to cope with terrible and unbalanced mechanics makes for a great eSport.

Edited by Featherman, 30 November 2012 - 02:31 AM.


#19 Wifflebottom

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:28 AM

I don't think stealth stomps are the biggest issues with thieves the fact that they can do almost everything very well compared to the other classes is the problem.

Edited by Mr_Original, 30 November 2012 - 02:28 AM.


#20 RandolfRa

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:42 AM

View PostOrikx, on 29 November 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

I've seen organized Engi's running together using combo fields to stealth rez/down everyone they need too. That takes organization to time cool downs/abilities right. Nerfing stealth finishing isn't a thief nerf it's a nerf to a mechanic that does not need to because it's not game breaking. There are tons of ways to counter it and many other ways to finish with immunity. If you are getting beat in a 1 on 1 and have no way to counter it. Tough luck. The game isn't balanced around 1v1's and you got beat anyways so you deserve to be finished.
Yeah, that sounds pretty cool I quess. However, thief finishing move doesn't involve any that kind of difficult tactics. It's just a free meal for them. It's fairly easy to counter as you said though, and I don't think it really needs a nerf.

Edited by RandolfRa, 30 November 2012 - 02:45 AM.


#21 Phigment

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:16 AM

Stealth stomp is just a way for gain HPS if I have intiative...

Lets talk about a crappy down system first.....Lets make it so once down, you cannot do any dmg, then you can take away the defensive abilities used during stomping.)

#22 BnJ

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:32 AM

If you're going to remove stealth stomp, then you better remove stability stomp, blind stomp and quickness stomp as well.

Or you could just harden up and not try to dumb down the game for everyone.

#23 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:52 PM

Of all the big problems pvp has at the moment, this surely isn't one of them.

#24 Orikx

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:57 PM

View PostFeatherman, on 30 November 2012 - 02:26 AM, said:

Nope. Only Thieves, Warriors, Mesmers and Rangers. Mesmers can grant quickness in a large area.

And sure, forcing players to cope with terrible and unbalanced mechanics makes for a great eSport.

Edit:

Thought you were talking about stealth stomp. Just reread the post. I'm not familiar with what classes have access to quick stomps.

Edited by Orikx, 30 November 2012 - 06:59 PM.


#25 Leoveo

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:19 AM

This is why the downed state should never have been put in to be honest. In any other game you'd just be dead because you couldn't win the fight. Having a downed function makes you think you're entitled to whine about people finishing you off in the manner they choose but in reality you were already defeated and would have nothing to complain about if this game didn't have the downed state at all.

#26 PsycoPsymon

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:28 PM

i love the downed state its like playing a mmo version of mortal kombat ........... every so often i can hear a voice in my head taunting me tho when i get stomped saying"mwaahahahahahaha you fight like johhny cage"

#27 Shatteredz

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:37 PM

View PostFeatherman, on 30 November 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

Stealth stomps are bad, but you know what's worse? Quickness stomps. Thieves have this too btw. The real problem though is that there are so many ways to cheese downed opponents in this game, trivializing the down state in PvP. ANet can fix this by disabling buffs for stompers, and why they haven't looked into this is beyond me.

rather remove downed state. Its awfull in pvp, IMO

#28 MrForz

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:12 PM

View PostShatteredz, on 02 December 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

rather remove downed state. Its awfull in pvp, IMO

Right there. For my part I prefer quick deaths, it's simple yet efficient.

I'm also going to tell a story. In WvWvW a Mesmer got the edge on me in a 1v1 fight in the middle of nowhere, I dropped a Crate on a pack of minotaurs and got downed there, one of the minotaurs died and I got back on my feet, during the process, the Mesmer's been hurt by those when he attempted to finish me off, I had the advantage I ran after him, we went through the whole map as he got downed in a pack of coyotes, wargs, drakes, black bears, pretty much all my weapons being AOE, attempting to shoot him would contribute to another second wind, attempting to stomp him in the middle of 4 - 5 coyotes would be even worse.

(Oh, and a friendly Warrior followed me in the end and he continued when I gave up as the Mesmer approached his respective frontier, and the Legendary Defender said no.)

I may the understand the concept of that unbreakable will, undying, perceverence. But it's getting quite ridiculous at that point.

#29 Cobra Kai

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:50 AM

View PostMr_Original, on 30 November 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:

I don't think stealth stomps are the biggest issues with thieves the fact that they can do almost everything very well compared to the other classes is the problem.

Name those things or you're trolling.

Edited by Cobra Kai, 03 December 2012 - 05:50 AM.


#30 Wifflebottom

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:02 AM

View PostCobra Kai, on 03 December 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

Name those things or you're trolling.
Insanely high  dps,  great AoE damage with shortbow/caltrops, everything about shadow refuge,  best mobility profession behind only ele, thieves guild makes any 1v1 against class moot, numerous escape methods etc. Of course I'm not saying they can do all these things at once but the fact that they have access to all this while other classes only have access to one or two of things at all. If the others had as much capability as the thief then this wouldn't be an issue but they don't so it is. The only drawback to thieves are their paper defenses but those don't really matter when you can ya know escape effortlessly.





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