98 replies to this topic

[Gremlin]

Scrimmer, on 29 November 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

Well yeah, that's all true, but what about for Legendaries, for example?

So expensive.. I really don't know how people do it.

I recon there are a few ways players get lots of money.
The first is illegal ie they buy gold.

Sticking withing the game rules, they farm until they have a maybe 10 gold and then they can play the TP market.Some seem to be able to predict the items that will rise and buy accordingly.
Some made a fair bit before and during Halloween,
If you can predict what is cheap now and likely to be wanted during and after Winterfest you could make some gold yourself.

The other way is by getting a lucky drop from a chest, I got a precurser from the one off mission.
The day I got it I could have sold it for 169 gold it then dropped to around 120, had I thought about it I could have sold on day one and bought back later on and made a fair bit.

Edited by Gremlin, 29 November 2012 - 05:12 PM.

[deitiesforce]

because they want you to spend money on GEM store

[Alleji]

Green, on 29 November 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

Or is it that you have such a terrible personal life that the only way you can gain the attention you so obviously seek is to be a hater on internet forums?

That's like 33% of every forum last I checked.

[Alex Dimitri]

Whatever the reason is GW2 has very bad drop rate for "worthy items" and for coin you need to "work/farm/grind" spend hours upon hours every day.
I mean today i saw map chat where dude bragged about makin` 150g in two days on bugged Grenth (chain quest/ cannon) he farmed the place 14 hrs straight (not sure is it each day or two days total) ! I saw that quest on my way to Ori nodes but after 3-4 min (realization time) i turned around and left......was i supposed to stay and farm there to get that cash ?

Remember i don`t blame guy for cash he made (he grind his ass of) bugs are kind of Anet`s fault but when you think about it....only sure way to make cash in GW2 (big cash that is) is to find loophole, bug, exploit......doing it legit way just pays bills and nothing more !

[Zhahz]

DuskWolf, on 29 November 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

Because the way ArenaNet handles money in this game is broken. They're stingy and only allow the tiniest trickle of money into the game, and they tax what little mone you get. The game has been forced into a deflationary spiral, devaluing everything except prices which ArenaNet controls. This is to drive people to the gem store to buy gems to convert to gold.

This.

The player economy in this game is miserable and so are activities you can do to accumlate wealth.  Most people who gain significant gold are either getting lucky (occasional drops worth selling or mystic forge lottery), grinding like hell (not fun), or exploiting/borderline exploiting (enjoy it while it lasts since you either get banned or ANet closes the loophole once it's known - for ex, wouldn't surprise me to see ANet change how Arah explorable works to give you money after completion to crush 3 minute money runs since that is obviously not the way they want the game to work).

You want F2P, this is what you get.  Game design focused on steering you to the cash shop = suck but it's how it has to be.

[typographie]

DuskWolf, on 29 November 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

GW2 is just not a fun game. More and more people are realising it. Sounds like it's begun to sink in for you, too. OP. Move on, don't draw it out.

Wow, do you ever post anything that isn't relentless, exhaustive doom and gloom? If it weren't so depressing, your sheer endurance in all of these different threads would be, frankly, impressive. Isn't it a bit ironic to accuse ArenaNet of being the cynical party in the middle of such a post?

[Jobuu]

the thing that really pisses me off is you'll kill 10 things and 8 of them drop zero loot (not even a gray skull thing). wtf? i got some MF gear and was eating peach tart. maybe 30%

[tatsuo]

DuskWolf, on 29 November 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

Because the way ArenaNet handles money in this game is broken. They're stingy and only allow the tiniest trickle of money into the game, and they tax what little mone you get. The game has been forced into a deflationary spiral, devaluing everything except prices which ArenaNet controls. This is to drive people to the gem store to buy gems to convert to gold.

A surprising (even to me) number of my friends have moved on from GW2, even one really hardcore friend from tumblr whom I was sure would be with it for years. And aside from the vertical progression bait & switch, the reason I hear the most is that they're sick and tired of being broke and they strongly dislike the cynical feeling of the game - where it almost feels necessary sometimes to buy gems if you just want to bounce around everywhere with the waypoints.

I've been playing a lot of other games lately, and they've all shown how unfun GW2 is in its current state. Mass Effect 3, Champions Online, and even Free Realms have a far less cynical approach to online gaming. GW2 is a casino dressed up as a game, the people who play it are gambling addicts. They've moved on. I've moved on. If you're feeling the way we do, OP, it won't be long before you move on. And now, you get to point, watch, and laugh as ArenaNet faithfuls attack with personal insults and fallacies without making a single, valid, reasonable, intelligent, and objective argument against what I've said. Because there are none to be made.

GW2 is just not a fun game. More and more people are realising it. Sounds like it's begun to sink in for you, too. OP. Move on, don't draw it out.

I stopped playing PVE in GW2 about month ago. I just couldn't stand it. So many gold sinks and boring grind. Didn't spend penny on gems and definitely not going to especially when I feel that I'm being forced to do that. The only thing thats keeping me in GW2 is sPvP, but that one is getting boring slowly..

[DuskWolf]

Green, on 29 November 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

Its well known on these forums that you hate the game and in fact don't play anymore. So why are you still here?

Ah yes! The statement that's so original it has to be marched out in every thread I talk in. And then, hey, when I answer... they flee in fear because I'm offering a reasonable, valid answer! Oh no, logic! Logic is like the kryptonite of faithfuls like yourself. So, hey, I'll answer you again. No skin off my nose.

In fact, I'm going to copy this to an .rtf file so that I can spam it whenever it's necessary. So, let's get to the meat of the matter, shall we? The response you seem to dread.

I stick around for two reasons.

The debate will be illuminating for future developers.

It's a discussion of horizontal versus vertical progression, and the evils of things like taxes, and what constitutes good or bad game design. I've had a lot of input on this and I've suggested many ways in which ArenaNet can fix their game, or ways in which future developers can avoid replicating the entertaining failure that is GW2.

The fact of the matter is is that horizontal progression fans on the forums seem to outnumber faithfuls 5 to 1, and that number seems to be growing more and more all the time (I'll come back to this below). Also, the arguments for horizontal progression are more sensible and reasonable than those for vertical. Ultimately, it goes something like this:

"I like horizontal progression. I don't want stats to play the game for me, furthermore, I'm not a fan of the moving goalposts and item grinds that accompany such poor design decisions."

"I like vertical progression. And you're a poopoo head who should get out of my forum and give me a walled garden community!"

So, yeah. This is going to be an interesting resource for future developers. And don't think that they won't come across discussions like these. Either via searches or knowing where they are and following them. I'll state it again: My observations show that horizontal progression fans outnumber vertical progression fans, and have more reasonable, sensible arguments.

Thiiiis brings me to point two!

It's a train wreck, isn't it?

See, I'm watching the hope of the ArenaNet hopefuls deteriorate every day. Bit. By bit. By bit. And the comment I get flung my way for my efforts now is, indeed, that I am a poopoo head and that I should get out of the forums so that faithfuls can have their walled garden. But why do they want a walled garden? That's the question! That is the question, isn't it?

It's because when one of my camp argues with an ArenaNet hopeful, we tend to put forth very sensible ideas (like why taxes are bad and exploitative, or why vertical progression takes away from displays of player skill only to offer a placebo effect in its place that convinces bad players that they're good). What we get is, to say it again, insults, fallacies, character assassination, and an increasingly desperate attempt to just get rid of us.

You're that desperate right now that if you had a 'kill all haters' button, you'd probably press it. And that's terrifying to me, that you're that far gone. But with each valid post you read, we're bringing you back to reality. And reality is a good place to be, rather than the elysian fields of delusion. Because that's merely an illusion, and the illusion has to be shattered eventually. And for the sake of your mental well being, it's better shattered sooner than later.

so, hey, I guess you can consider me a good samaritan in a way. Since I can see that you're trying so hard to delude yourself. And that's what these screams for a walled garden are about. If you were really confident in your game, you'd be playing it and citing valid, logical reasons as to why it's a good game. Instead, you're hanging around the forum all day at the expense of everything else, and making desperate attacks in the hopes that us naysayers will all just ... dissappear.

I doubt you'll counter this. I don't think you have it in you. You're asking for a walled garden community, so of course you don't. In fact, half of the reason you're hanging onto your delusion is clearly because you don't want to admit that you were wrong. Because that makes you look stupid. I've already passed that point, myself. I had the balls to man up and do it. I admitted that I was being something of a retard by believing in ArenaNet, and that I should have seen the signs.

I caught onto this in the beta weekends, when I started talking to my friends about the negative changes they were making. And when the game launched, we quickly became tired of the taxes and the grind. Not only that, but other poor design choices, like combat which is as agonisingly slow as treacle, which is distinctly unfun. Combat which only reaffirms the placebo affects of stats deciding one's awesomeness.

So I came here to see what other people thought.

I'm surprised that so many people are hanging onto the illusion that this is a good game. It isn't. So it's morbid curiosity at this point. The question remains: "How many times do ArenaNet have to stab you in the back before you realise what's going on?" And that's why the faithfuls are becoming silent, or joining my camp. Because each new backstab, like Ascended armour, is making people realise that GW2 is a distinctly unfun game. And an exploitative one at that.

You can't deny that the gambling aspects of the mystic forge are exploitative, you can't deny that keeping the amount of money in players hands and then putting artificially high prices on things in order for them to buy gems from the cash shop to convert to gold is exploitative, you can't deny that the taxes themselves are exploitative. Guild Wars 2 is a cynical example of exploitation, and how some people just like to bend over and take it up the butt.

So I'm morbidly curious. Where is your shame? Where is your self-respect? Why do you do this to yourself? There are developers out there who'll treat you better, like people and not walking wallets, less cynically. Mostly single-player devs and indies, yes. But hell, there are even some online multi-player games (like Mass Effect 3's multi-player) and some MMOs (like Dungeons & Dragons: Online) which will treat you more like a person.

It's just... I can't stop watching. When will you come to your senses?

Anyway, this has been copied to a file. Going to just paste it when necessary. This statement you've made is that unoriginal that I'm having to come up with a PR-like canned response to it! Doesn't that tell you something?

[NumNumPie]

This DuskWolf guy, I actually read his entire post, and I gotta say,

get a girlfriend, a car, a dog, a job, or a hobby because you really need something bro.

[Professor Chaos]

NumNumPie, on 29 November 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

This DuskWolf guy, I actually read his entire post, and I gotta say,

get a girlfriend, a car, a dog, a job, or a hobby because you really need something bro.

Pot, meet kettle.

I love it when people make comments like the above on a mmo online forum.  Seriously, you feel cool enough to make fun of someone else for playing GW2 alot, when you spend your free time in an online forum trolling people?

[Soki]

NumNumPie, on 29 November 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

This DuskWolf guy, I actually read his entire post, and I gotta say,

get a girlfriend, a car, a dog, a job, or a hobby because you really need something bro.

What a sound arguement from somebody browsing a forum on the internet. You must be the pinnacle of societal success.
I particularly like how you told him to get a hobby, when he's trying to give feedback to make something within his hobby better (in his eyes).

I'm not going to argue about anything in this thread - I just wanted to point out how much of an idiot you must be to make a post like that.

Spoiler

Incoming infraction for calling a duck a duck

Edited by Soki, 29 November 2012 - 08:14 PM.

[soxx]

Sorry, misclicked the "like" button above.

Just wanted to clear that up so no one got the wrong impression that I cared about anyone or anything in this topic.

[Corvindi]

Cognitive dissonance hurts, DuskWolf.  Why do you want to hurt people?  

[Lareem]

I have some things to say here.

• Why everyone likes horizontal progression. Where can i currently find it in GW2. And what do you even mean by horizontal progression. I want a solid examples which can be transfered to game not vague analogies with Mario.
  
• I agree with DuskWolf that the way their are handling economy is broken. Too many taxes and not enough ways to make gold.

Edited by Lareem, 29 November 2012 - 08:57 PM.

[TGIFrisbie]

Sheepski, on 29 November 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

Unfortunately, I like to play solo to earn money, instead of joining groups for "elite/challenging" content so there's not really any options available right now.

Same boat.  It's like GW1 after all the solo farming nerfs.  That's when I left GW1, just before EotN.  Nightfall was a joke with mob placements in world content and their serious attempts (Anet) to ensure you couldn't solo jackcrap (solo, as in 1vall, not +heros).

So yeah, along with the 180 on their manifesto and the grind tedium that would not be part of GW2, I am waiting on another game and picking at this one like a scab that won't heal.

[The_Tree_Branch]

Fernling306, on 29 November 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

It's all about the cash shop.

Please do explain. Because even if Arenanet made it "easier" to get money, more money would be entering the markets and people would increase the cost of goods. You can either make 3g/hour and have ectos be at 30 silver, or let players farm 10g/hour and have a rise in prices on goods. People are too caught up in blaming the cash shop for all of their problems. It's predatory in some ways (grab bags), but isn't really that bad.

[Mohku]

Green, on 29 November 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

After reviewing your recent posts, I am beginning to think you work for some sort of 3rd party  and are paid to trash the game and encourage players to stop playing.

Or is it that you have such a terrible personal life that the only way you can gain the attention you so obviously seek is to be a hater on internet forums?

Exactly.  It has to be.   It's kind of amazing how many rants and long-winded diatribes he can throw at GW2 and ArenaNet.   Has to be another company's employee that gets paid to crap on other games.   If not, I pity him.

As for me, I'm still having a blast with the game, and I make enough money to support things I want to do in-game.  I'm not rich by any means, but by knowing when to TP vs. vendor vs. salvage helps a lot.    Sure, it'll take me a while before I can make a legendary, but I have plenty of time.   I'm not paying a sub, and the game has only been out three months.  I'm just taking it at my own pace.  YMMV.  *shrug*

[Steadfast Gao Shun]

I've got five questions. Why do you want lots of gold? How much is enough? What are you going to do with that gold once you get it? What then? What do you plan to do after that?

I'm not trying to go existentialist on you, but I still subscribe to the old ideals of MMOs are supposed to be fun and social.

Edited by Steadfast Gao Shun, 29 November 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[MazingerZ]

To make you buy 'convenience' items and in a moment of weakness, directly convert gems to gold.

GW2's target audience are the cash->gem->gold folks.

Edited by MazingerZ, 29 November 2012 - 09:45 PM.

[DerekUrban]

DuskWolf, on 29 November 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

Ah yes! The statement that's so original it has to be marched out in every thread I talk in. And then, hey, when I answer... they flee in fear because I'm offering a reasonable, valid answer! Oh no, logic! Logic is like the kryptonite of faithfuls like yourself. So, hey, I'll answer you again. No skin off my nose.

In fact, I'm going to copy this to an .rtf file so that I can spam it whenever it's necessary. So, let's get to the meat of the matter, shall we? The response you seem to dread.

I stick around for two reasons.

The debate will be illuminating for future developers.

It's a discussion of horizontal versus vertical progression, and the evils of things like taxes, and what constitutes good or bad game design. I've had a lot of input on this and I've suggested many ways in which ArenaNet can fix their game, or ways in which future developers can avoid replicating the entertaining failure that is GW2.

The fact of the matter is is that horizontal progression fans on the forums seem to outnumber faithfuls 5 to 1, and that number seems to be growing more and more all the time (I'll come back to this below). Also, the arguments for horizontal progression are more sensible and reasonable than those for vertical. Ultimately, it goes something like this:

"I like horizontal progression. I don't want stats to play the game for me, furthermore, I'm not a fan of the moving goalposts and item grinds that accompany such poor design decisions."

"I like vertical progression. And you're a poopoo head who should get out of my forum and give me a walled garden community!"

So, yeah. This is going to be an interesting resource for future developers. And don't think that they won't come across discussions like these. Either via searches or knowing where they are and following them. I'll state it again: My observations show that horizontal progression fans outnumber vertical progression fans, and have more reasonable, sensible arguments.

Thiiiis brings me to point two!

It's a train wreck, isn't it?

See, I'm watching the hope of the ArenaNet hopefuls deteriorate every day. Bit. By bit. By bit. And the comment I get flung my way for my efforts now is, indeed, that I am a poopoo head and that I should get out of the forums so that faithfuls can have their walled garden. But why do they want a walled garden? That's the question! That is the question, isn't it?

It's because when one of my camp argues with an ArenaNet hopeful, we tend to put forth very sensible ideas (like why taxes are bad and exploitative, or why vertical progression takes away from displays of player skill only to offer a placebo effect in its place that convinces bad players that they're good). What we get is, to say it again, insults, fallacies, character assassination, and an increasingly desperate attempt to just get rid of us.

You're that desperate right now that if you had a 'kill all haters' button, you'd probably press it. And that's terrifying to me, that you're that far gone. But with each valid post you read, we're bringing you back to reality. And reality is a good place to be, rather than the elysian fields of delusion. Because that's merely an illusion, and the illusion has to be shattered eventually. And for the sake of your mental well being, it's better shattered sooner than later.

so, hey, I guess you can consider me a good samaritan in a way. Since I can see that you're trying so hard to delude yourself. And that's what these screams for a walled garden are about. If you were really confident in your game, you'd be playing it and citing valid, logical reasons as to why it's a good game. Instead, you're hanging around the forum all day at the expense of everything else, and making desperate attacks in the hopes that us naysayers will all just ... dissappear.

I doubt you'll counter this. I don't think you have it in you. You're asking for a walled garden community, so of course you don't. In fact, half of the reason you're hanging onto your delusion is clearly because you don't want to admit that you were wrong. Because that makes you look stupid. I've already passed that point, myself. I had the balls to man up and do it. I admitted that I was being something of a retard by believing in ArenaNet, and that I should have seen the signs.

I caught onto this in the beta weekends, when I started talking to my friends about the negative changes they were making. And when the game launched, we quickly became tired of the taxes and the grind. Not only that, but other poor design choices, like combat which is as agonisingly slow as treacle, which is distinctly unfun. Combat which only reaffirms the placebo affects of stats deciding one's awesomeness.

So I came here to see what other people thought.

I'm surprised that so many people are hanging onto the illusion that this is a good game. It isn't. So it's morbid curiosity at this point. The question remains: "How many times do ArenaNet have to stab you in the back before you realise what's going on?" And that's why the faithfuls are becoming silent, or joining my camp. Because each new backstab, like Ascended armour, is making people realise that GW2 is a distinctly unfun game. And an exploitative one at that.

You can't deny that the gambling aspects of the mystic forge are exploitative, you can't deny that keeping the amount of money in players hands and then putting artificially high prices on things in order for them to buy gems from the cash shop to convert to gold is exploitative, you can't deny that the taxes themselves are exploitative. Guild Wars 2 is a cynical example of exploitation, and how some people just like to bend over and take it up the butt.

So I'm morbidly curious. Where is your shame? Where is your self-respect? Why do you do this to yourself? There are developers out there who'll treat you better, like people and not walking wallets, less cynically. Mostly single-player devs and indies, yes. But hell, there are even some online multi-player games (like Mass Effect 3's multi-player) and some MMOs (like Dungeons & Dragons: Online) which will treat you more like a person.

It's just... I can't stop watching. When will you come to your senses?

Anyway, this has been copied to a file. Going to just paste it when necessary. This statement you've made is that unoriginal that I'm having to come up with a PR-like canned response to it! Doesn't that tell you something?

I'm not really going to tackle most of that, and the parts that weren't oddly narcissistic I mostly agree with, but it seems that you're overestimating the impact of your forum-ninja ways a bit. Future game developers and ArenaNet will use numbers for research on future games. That is, how much money was made (Box sales and gem-store), how it was made, how many people bought the game, how many people are active at any given time (And it's relation to the total number of boxes sold) and how the expansions sell compared to the original.

Now, if you're doing this to try to get people to quit playing and thus effect those numbers I suppose it can make sense (Though really, who's deciding this stuff on the forums?), but I highly doubt future MMO developers are going to sift through backlogs of fansite forums. Especially considering any halfway intelligent developer knows that forums are only a cross-section of the mostly-raging/negative part of the game community as a whole.

Edit; Misspelled "Intelligent", go figure.

Edited by DerekUrban, 29 November 2012 - 09:50 PM.

[Nox_Aeterna]

Honestly , making money = hell.

I assume there is some way to make using TP , i actually made some , but it is very conditional even if does work if you do on the right time , and so not something i like.

I got some ideas , i must try out.

My advice , learn to play the TP , it is possible , just hard to figure out.

[Kitanul]

Saw someone today, he was commander, had full t3 cultural, 1 legendary for sure(the shield), maybe 2 which was the frostfang, or the ice looking one which need around 40 corrupted lodestone and also the icy looking GS, another load of lodestone. Thats only what i saw in about 30second 1 minute. Thats a whole lots of gold if you ask me.
To make money i run the ori 1 time a day and sell them as ingots, roundly make 1 gold.

[Asomal]

Making gold is not hard, it's just boring if you detest repeating the same content.

[Jason Seven]

Scrimmer, on 29 November 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

snip

Why it's hard for people to make money? Because they have certain rules they strictly abide in fear of the great ArenaNet who could ban them. If you ever want a constant flow of cash you'll either have to break these rules or acquire knowledge on how to best exploit and manipulate your fellow, less fortunate players through the market. Sure, you might now say you'll never do this and keep on farming and working like the good and lawful person you are but one day you'll realize that you cannot keep up with those who have no rules and those who no longer care about others well-being due to their greed. Should you ever choose to do the former like myself then at least be smart about it. It's certainly not in your favor using a bot program to farm mobs or use certain tools in crowded areas where you're easily spot like all these other third class gold farmers. 30g per hour was very possible up until recently and you could even automate the entire process. All with just the aid of a few programs and a bugged server. Such a shame they fixed this method. If you for some reason don't believe me, just ask players on Vabbi or Gandara, especially the latter. Entire guilds used this one method there, freely discussing it in their guild chats. It's not even funny just how many did. Keep in mind, this was just one small example of an almost infinite number. The ones to strictly obey arbitrary rules and restrictions are the ones who end up getting the short end of the stick. That being said, I don't endorse cheating or exploiting in any way, though. It's all up to everyone themselves whether they do this or not.

[Briar]

"Why is it so hard to get money in this game?"

It's not

The thing is that everything worth having is sold by players

and everything sold by players is hard to get, so everything is expensive

It's not a gold problem it's a valuable item accessibility problem

Edit: spelling

Edited by Briar, 29 November 2012 - 10:48 PM.

[Fancy Fool]

@Duskwolf.

Accounts of narcissism and glorification of own opinion

"hey, when I answer... they flee in fear"

"This is going to be an interesting resource for future developers."
"we're bringing you back to reality."
"joining my camp"
"so, hey, I guess you can consider me a good samaritan in a way"
"And the comment I get flung my way for my efforts now"
"when one of my camp"
"we tend to put forth very sensible ideas"
"I had the balls to man up and do it"

Accounts of acerbic treatment of counter-positions: (In direct hypocrisy of
"What we get is, to say it again, insults, fallacies, character assassination, and an increasingly desperate attempt to just get rid of us."


"Oh no, logic! Logic is like the kryptonite of faithfuls like yourself."
""I like vertical progression. And you're a poopoo head who should get out of my forum and give me a walled garden community!""
"You're that desperate
"And for the sake of your mental well being"
"Since I can see that you're trying so hard to delude yourself. And that's what these screams for a walled garden are about."
"Instead, you're hanging around the forum all day at the expense of everything else, and making desperate attacks"
"I doubt you'll counter this. I don't think you have it in you."
"you're hanging onto your delusion"
"you don't want to admit that you were wrong. Because that makes you look stupid."
"Where is your shame? Where is your self-respect? Why do you do this to yourself?"
"When will you come to your senses?"
"bend over and take it up the butt."

Notes: Author calls out dramatically for a logical discussion, but speaks primarily with pathos. He asks for logic, when possibly inciting rage. This would seem self-defeating, but the author is a smart man. He must therefore actually desire the emotional response. The "poopoo head" response. It is interesting too that he labels the counter position "faithfuls" and "hopefuls," this suggests that what they believe is fantasy, and not logic or facts. While also seemingly elevating those who agree with him as followers of his camp, akin to him in his logical glory.

If above is Ethos, let's look for Logos, or logic.. in his post:

"vertical progression takes away from displays of player skill only to offer a placebo effect in its place that convinces bad players that they're good"
" gambling aspects of the mystic forge are exploitative, you can't deny that keeping the amount of money in players hands and then putting artificially high prices on things in order for them to buy gems from the cash shop to convert to gold is exploitative, you can't deny that the taxes themselves are exploitative. Guild Wars 2 is a cynical example of exploitation, and how some people just like to bend over and take it up the butt."

Note: The last is more pathos than logos, since it doesn't explain why it is exploitative. A missed opportunity considering the RNG gamble of MMO's can be explained as such with some basic psychology education, but I wanted to cite it when it was almost there.

Opinion: The author may not be a deliberate troll, or if he is a very good one (10/10), but his delivery is toxic and not likely to create the discussion he believes he champions.

Opinion on Game: I'm still having fun, but I represent the 1%~ of RPers, so my opinion doesn't represent a lot of others. I expect RNG grinds in any MMO, and simply don't play enough for this nature of the beast to dwell in my head like a parasite. I have several 80's, exotics.. even got my ascended ring, but I also prefer Horizontal progression, like Wolf, even if I don't wish to abandon this game anytime soon. Ascended gear was not hatched from some A-net scheme to ruin the lives of their players, but because there was actually a surprisingly (I'd say) large demand for more character progression. A-net has designed the game with the intentions of a revenue despite F2P, and that isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it is necessary. It's not pay-to-win, so I am happy. You don't need legendaries, and they're depreciating in awe as they become more common, so I don't truly understand why people head-desk and grind for them, a personal decision for a little graphic they don't need, and then blame A-net for the trouble they put themselves in. I think the major thing that has shown me that A-net cares about its players is amount of new content they are churning out with a relatively small staff. The holiday event and Karka event have been enormous, and they really surprised me. I can say I'm happy to see what will come this christmas.

This game is not without its flaws, and I don't play it solely, but I maintain faith that it will remain fun, and can improve. So yes, call me a horrible faithful, Dusk. Label me as a terrible, delusional person who will call you names like a two-year old and is only on this community to weigh it down, Tell me that I am incapable of logical arguments. And be thankful that you can't be punched through the internet for insulting me so deeply when you don't know a thing about me.

Edited by Fancy Fool, 29 November 2012 - 11:26 PM.

[Biz]

First of all everything you need in the game is given to you if you just play the game. "Making Money" is not something that is separate from other parts of the game.
Second... You do not always need money, as money is only one of the ways of getting what you want as well as there exists a hard limit to how much money you actually need before it is vanity spending.
Thirdly you have options and gear that comes from what you do enjoy doing. If you do dungeons a lot - you get armor/weapons from dungeons. Doing 3 paths of one dungeon every day will get you in a full set of said dungeon armor in under two weeks - that is a grind free, 1-2h/day time investment, no money involved and you will be making a fair amount at the same time.
Loot from Fractals seems superior to other dungeons, with he random chance of account bound rare skinned exotics and if you do it long enough a "free" Ascended item from tokens.

[Budzasty]

Because you can buy items that have actual value for it.

I guess game could toss heaps of gold for you, but apart from ease of paying taxes(travels, repairs, etc.), that wouldn't change a thing as people would simply charge more for valuable items. Illusion of having more zeros on a bill

[Omedon]

Scrimmer, on 29 November 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

Whats your opinions on this? Any advice?


tl;dr I'm broke as hell.

Gonna skip all the potential hate and give you the best advice I can, my apologies if it's been repeated, but I honestly prefer not to read in depth here for fear of my sanity:

Do you craft?  My guild and I have found that a player must decide between crafting and reasonable income maintained by gathering and selling religiously.  Most of the active player's needs can be covered by keeping up to date crafting tools on hand (never go above the 2nd tier of salvage kit, except for ecto-fishing, and generally only salvage "white" quality items, vendor or auction blues and greens)  and hitting every node, regardless of level.  If your playstyle requires that you actually use those resources, you will be broke, a lot.

Yes, there are other paths such as zone completion, and dungeons, but honestly, the wandering, casual player can roll in money if s/he just abandons ever crafting anything until he/she is established enough to then throw time or money at the undertaking.  Any crafting undertaken while leveling will almost certainly result in either grinding for or purchasing blue catalyst drops, and I don't know about you, but grinding isn't fun for me, and purchasing defeats the initiative to save.

Liquidating my crafting collection and abandoning my idea to craft on all 8 of my characters changed my perspective on money in this game.  It really is a choice between "make it or have the money to buy it"  you can't have both so early in the game without some form of unnaturally repetitive action.

That's my advice, good luck

Edited by Omedon, 29 November 2012 - 11:52 PM.