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After playing GW2, I decided I'd prefer a sub fee over any cash shop


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#301 Robsy128

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:15 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 06 December 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

But those are the same reasons as why people like goth music. Except the family member part (few wants to remember family members that were goths lol). Our opinions and the things we like have no impact on our identity.

Yes people can buy time. That's the entire problem with the gem store, it is in ANet's interest to slow things down and make the player bored.

I know that he was talking about WoW, I was reminding him that GW2 is worse.

Haha but our opinions and the things we like affect the choices we make in life, and the choices we make in life define who we are.

Yet a lot of the people actually playing the game aren't bored... so I can't really see the argument. Maybe you are. Maybe other people are. But that's them. Other people are loving their time in Guild Wars 2.

Guild Wars 2 isn't worse haha. If you think that, then you really need to look into what grind means :P

#302 raspberry jam

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:20 PM

View PostIllein, on 06 December 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

If you think GW2 has a bad "daily quest grind"-system - then you're officially beyond redemption. There are 1-3 dailies available, depending how far you are in your fractals, period.

And I think that might scratch too deep now if we got into a discussion about what belongs to ones identity and what doesn't. But how LIKES AND DISLIKES aren't necessary linked to ones identity - eludes me.
Yes, it's bad. Why? Because it's the same shit every day. "That's the point of a daily" - no, it's not. GW1's Zaishen quests were dailies too and they were different every day (on a cycle, obviously).

And how the hell would your identity be linked to what you like. Your identity is necessarily immutable, while basically every experiment on the subject shows that opinions and "likes and dislikes" can be changed remarkably quickly.

#303 Illein

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:29 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 06 December 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Yes, it's bad. Why? Because it's the same shit every day. "That's the point of a daily" - no, it's not. GW1's Zaishen quests were dailies too and they were different every day (on a cycle, obviously).

And how the hell would your identity be linked to what you like. Your identity is necessarily immutable, while basically every experiment on the subject shows that opinions and "likes and dislikes" can be changed remarkably quickly.

To be fair. You got a point about how one could make dailies better - I am no fan of dailies. I just said WoW has the worst daily system I know - which you replied me with a brief "GW2". Which is nonsense, because it's basically the same system with the difference that one is multiple times more tedious and excessive than the other, so per default: worse.

Identity is immutable? That's complete bogus in terms of psychology. Don't get stuck up on the strict meaning of the word when it comes to a human being.

#304 raspberry jam

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:30 PM

View PostRobsy128, on 06 December 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

Haha but our opinions and the things we like affect the choices we make in life, and the choices we make in life define who we are.

Yet a lot of the people actually playing the game aren't bored... so I can't really see the argument. Maybe you are. Maybe other people are. But that's them. Other people are loving their time in Guild Wars 2.

Guild Wars 2 isn't worse haha. If you think that, then you really need to look into what grind means :P
How does a choice define who you are? Let's say you make a choice to collect stamps. Then you make a choice to stop collecting stamps. Are you a stamp collector now, or not? And is "stamp collector" even a fraction of an infinitesimally small part of a definition of who you truly are?

Yes, some people (you, for example) are loving GW2. But that's fun for you: a strange thing, different for everyone, yet the same basic feeling. Try to give it meaning, and it goes away. But one thing is constant: all fun games (regardless of who they are fun for) validate the player's ego. That is done in different ways... For people like you, it's about patting you on the head and telling you that you are a good boy because you did all that grind. For people like me, it's about patting me on the head and telling me that I'm a good girl for beating a difficult challenge. It's not even about who is the most deceived here, because in both cases, the grind and the challenge, respectively, were there to be beaten. And that is... fun? Yes, that is fun.

As an amusing thought experiment, think of that the next time you do any kind of PvP. The devs set the game up so that one of the teams can beat the other one. Which means that one of the teams is there to be beaten? Or both?

#305 Sinful01

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

Maybe I'm misreading what you guys are talking about but ...

View PostIllein, on 06 December 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

If you think GW2 has a bad "daily quest grind"-system - then you're officially beyond redemption. There are 1-3 dailies available, depending how far you are in your fractals, period.

Depends on how you define "daily quest grind" I suppose.  If you literally mean things with the "Daily" label in your Hero panel, you've got (per account):
The Daily PvE - (Gather X times, kill Y monsters, kill Z types of monsters) - w/ Karma Jug & Mystic Coin reward
The Daily PvP - (sPvP I think?  I've never even looked at it) - w/ the reward you get for it


If you expand the definition to include "I want a reward but am only allowed to do this once a day to get it" stuff:
One daily fractal Jade Maw run per 'tier' - (a run at tier 1 for tokens; tier 2 for uninfused rings; tier 3 for infused rings ...)
Each dungeon explorer path can only be done once per day, for max tokens.  So if you want CoF armor as soon as possible you would preferably run all the explorer modes for the dungeon each day.

I know the fractals are "per character" ... are dungeon runs per account or character?

All that can add up, though it depends on what your goals are.  Personally, if I want a full set of Berserker exotics ASAP (and don't care about mix-matching the 'look'), through the token system, I'm doing 3 dungeons a day, all the explorable paths in each to maximize my progress toward my goal.  Plus, at least a FotM 10 run (for each 80 I have) for a shot at rings per day.  If you want a specific dungeon set for looks, you'll have to do the same dungeon over a longer period of time obviously.

Edited by Sinful01, 06 December 2012 - 04:35 PM.


#306 raspberry jam

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:37 PM

View PostIllein, on 06 December 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

To be fair. You got a point about how one could make dailies better - I am no fan of dailies. I just said WoW has the worst daily system I know - which you replied me with a brief "GW2". Which is nonsense, because it's basically the same system with the difference that one is multiple times more tedious and excessive than the other, so per default: worse.

Identity is immutable? That's complete bogus in terms of psychology. Don't get stuck up on the strict meaning of the word when it comes to a human being.
IMO, no, simply because GW2 demands you to do stuff that you reasonably wouldn't do anyway. WoW is better because demanding that players do stuff that they wouldn't reasonably do is par for course there.

So you know psychology? And you still claim that liking country music defines your identity? Not that associations that you get from said country music defines an inner persona that can even trick yourself into thinking that it is your identity?

#307 Illein

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:47 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 06 December 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

IMO, no, simply because GW2 demands you to do stuff that you reasonably wouldn't do anyway. WoW is better because demanding that players do stuff that they wouldn't reasonably do is par for course there.

So you know psychology? And you still claim that liking country music defines your identity? Not that associations that you get from said country music defines an inner persona that can even trick yourself into thinking that it is your identity?

And I am not sure what it demands of you to do that you reasonably wouldn't...you mean like...NOT stand in Lion's Arch? :D

You strike me as a person receptive to Wikipedia definitions to close the curtains on that secondary theatre of conversation:

"In psychology and sociology, identity is a person's conception and expression of their individuality or group affiliations"

Our likes and dislikes (yes, that might even be country music to a degree) definitely coins our expression of individuality. So seeing identity as something rigid would be wrong, IMHO. Might sound contradictive but I think identity, while steady in a way, is still subject to change and growth.

Edited by Illein, 06 December 2012 - 04:48 PM.


#308 raspberry jam

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:56 PM

View PostIllein, on 06 December 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

And I am not sure what it demands of you to do that you reasonably wouldn't...you mean like...NOT stand in Lion's Arch? :D

You strike me as a person receptive to Wikipedia definitions to close the curtains on that secondary theatre of conversation:

"In psychology and sociology, identity is a person's conception and expression of their individuality or group affiliations"

Our likes and dislikes (yes, that might even be country music to a degree) definitely coins our expression of individuality. So seeing identity as something rigid would be wrong, IMHO. Might sound contradictive but I think identity, while steady in a way, is still subject to change and growth.
No, I mean killing specifically the mobs that I can kill fast enough to maximize my income of whatever I'm trying to get, of course: that's what PvE is about, at least numbers-wise, and massive bloodshed at least holds some modicum of fun. But instead I'm forced to waste time and money on teleporting around until I kill 15 different mobs. Gah...

But there is nothing individual about liking country music. How many like country music? Yeah, exactly. Good job on individuality there lol. And you're not a member of a group either, unless "people who like country but have nothing else in common" is a group.

Edited by raspberry jam, 06 December 2012 - 04:57 PM.


#309 Illein

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:15 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 06 December 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

No, I mean killing specifically the mobs that I can kill fast enough to maximize my income of whatever I'm trying to get, of course: that's what PvE is about, at least numbers-wise, and massive bloodshed at least holds some modicum of fun. But instead I'm forced to waste time and money on teleporting around until I kill 15 different mobs. Gah...

But there is nothing individual about liking country music. How many like country music? Yeah, exactly. Good job on individuality there lol. And you're not a member of a group either, unless "people who like country but have nothing else in common" is a group.

That's why I like fractals. You get everything done inside that matters. Save for gathering, that is.

And if you regard it in a vacuum as you just did, isolating country music as a person's single USP - then please, enlighten me what would be "individual" then by your definition that would make a person in its complete lonesome a unique piece of its species?

Oh this better be good.

PS.: I'd consider COUNTRY MUSIC FANS a group. o_O

Edited by Illein, 06 December 2012 - 05:16 PM.


#310 Robsy128

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:26 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 06 December 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

How does a choice define who you are? Let's say you make a choice to collect stamps. Then you make a choice to stop collecting stamps. Are you a stamp collector now, or not? And is "stamp collector" even a fraction of an infinitesimally small part of a definition of who you truly are?

Yes, some people (you, for example) are loving GW2. But that's fun for you: a strange thing, different for everyone, yet the same basic feeling. Try to give it meaning, and it goes away. But one thing is constant: all fun games (regardless of who they are fun for) validate the player's ego. That is done in different ways... For people like you, it's about patting you on the head and telling you that you are a good boy because you did all that grind. For people like me, it's about patting me on the head and telling me that I'm a good girl for beating a difficult challenge. It's not even about who is the most deceived here, because in both cases, the grind and the challenge, respectively, were there to be beaten. And that is... fun? Yes, that is fun.

As an amusing thought experiment, think of that the next time you do any kind of PvP. The devs set the game up so that one of the teams can beat the other one. Which means that one of the teams is there to be beaten? Or both?


I'm talking about life choices. An example would be to help someone or not. To show compassion to another human being. Am I kind, or am I a jerk? Do I want to kick that guy's face in, or will I let it slide? All of these choices define us.

That whole second paragraph, whilst interesting to read, didn't really have anything to do with what we were discussing before haha. You said that Arenanet slow things down and make the player bored - thus pushing them towards the gem store. But a lot of the people in the game are still having a lot of fun, so they're not pushed towards the gem store. So, again, I don't really see your argument here.

View Postraspberry jam, on 06 December 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

But there is nothing individual about liking country music. How many like country music? Yeah, exactly. Good job on individuality there lol. And you're not a member of a group either, unless "people who like country but have nothing else in common" is a group.

This is completely off topic now, so maybe we should move this into Madness Incarnate? Anyway, a lot of people like Country music, sure, but how many of them also like motorcycles? Fewer. Now how many of them play MMOs as well? Even fewer people. How many of them like art? Fewer. You can't define someone with one thing. It's a combination of everything they like and have an opinion on that makes them an individual.

#311 Feathermoore

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:58 PM

I am not going to delete this side conversation about identity because it amuses me, but take it to PMs and stay on topic please.

Posts on identity after this will be removed.

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#312 Daesu

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:05 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 06 December 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

That is your opinion really, even if other people feel the same way.

I like the character slots, bank slots, inventory slots, make-over and armor skin sets.

I have all the 5 character slots that I need.  You don't need bank slots if you upkeep your inventory space properly and you do have your own private guild stash don't you?  Armor skin is merely cosmetic and doesn't give stats, not worth it.

Make-over?  Just do it right the first time.  :)

Edited by Daesu, 06 December 2012 - 06:08 PM.


#313 Gilles VI

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:45 PM

View PostDaesu, on 06 December 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

I have all the 5 character slots that I need.  You don't need bank slots if you upkeep your inventory space properly and you do have your own private guild stash don't you?  Armor skin is merely cosmetic and doesn't give stats, not worth it.

Make-over?  Just do it right the first time.  :)

8 professions = 8 character slots for me (hardcore GW fan since the beginning, I know I'll be playing this game for a loooong time)

I have a entire bank tab full with dungeon tokens alone.
I have a tab filled with all the gem-shop stuff & mystic forge stuff.
I have a bank tab filled with stuff for my legendary.
And then last tab is filled with stacks of materials (normal, fine, jewels and cooking).
No way I could do with less than 5 bank tabs.

I'm in a big guild that uses the guildbank actively, no chance I can use it as my private bank, starting my own guild for the small bank space isn't worth it.

Armorskin is worth it if you like the skin.. Or are you going to tell me it's forbidden to like the primeval skin (which I used for a very long time in GW1: Nightfall)?

Some characters I rushed, which I now regret.
Other characters, like my thief was just a wrong choice, I made a female sylvari thief at first, but soon I already regretted it.
The running animation bothered me, the hips were moving to much. The armor for females was stupid, just compare female to male duelist armor.
How could I know this before playing around with it?

#314 Daesu

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:12 PM

I guess you are more hardcore than I am then.

View PostGilles VI, on 06 December 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

I'm in a big guild that uses the guildbank actively, no chance I can use it as my private bank, starting my own guild for the small bank space isn't worth it.

You only need 2.5k influence to get yourself a 50-slot private guild bank which you can easily get by about 1-2 weeks of playing, unless your guild is greedy enough to demand that you represent them 100% of the time.

Quote

Some characters I rushed, which I now regret.
Other characters, like my thief was just a wrong choice, I made a female sylvari thief at first, but soon I already regretted it.
The running animation bothered me, the hips were moving to much. The armor for females was stupid, just compare female to male duelist armor.
How could I know this before playing around with it?

Beta, assuming you were in the beta.  I used the beta to decide on what race and professions to make.

Edited by Daesu, 06 December 2012 - 07:14 PM.


#315 Gilles VI

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:51 PM

View PostDaesu, on 06 December 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

I guess you are more hardcore than I am then.



You only need 2.5k influence to get yourself a 50-slot private guild bank which you can easily get by about 1-2 weeks of playing, unless your guild is greedy enough to demand that you represent them 100% of the time.



Beta, assuming you were in the beta.  I used the beta to decide on what race and professions to make.

I'm a officer in a guild I love, gathering 2.5k karma without representing my guild is impossible for me.
Not because my leaders demand it or anything, but because I love the guildchat, the questions, the playing together,...

I used beta to play 1 character, my ele up to lvl47.
Not to mention I didn't play BWE3, the only BWE where sylvari was playable.

And I also had a feeling of not spoiling everything.
I only played 1 race, 1 profession, no personal story,..

Edited by Gilles VI, 06 December 2012 - 07:56 PM.


#316 Daesu

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:05 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 06 December 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

I'm a officer in a guild I love, gathering 2.5k karma without representing my guild is impossible for me.
Not because my leaders demand it or anything, but because I love the guildchat, the questions, the playing together,...

1 Letter of Commendation at the end of personal story/Tome of Influence already grants you 1k influence and you only need 2.5k influence to get yourself a free 50 slots storage.  How difficult is it to switch to your personal guild, double click letter, then switch back?

Quote

I used beta to play 1 character, my ele up to lvl47.
Not to mention I didn't play BWE3, the only BWE where sylvari was playable.

Then sorry to say that you have wasted your beta opportunities by not using it to plan your characters/game play.  No point leveling too high during beta, so I opted to build broad instead.  Besides BWE3, there were also stress testing opportunities.

Edited by Daesu, 06 December 2012 - 08:05 PM.


#317 Gilles VI

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:15 PM

View PostDaesu, on 06 December 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

1 Letter of Commendation at the end of personal story/Tome of Influence already grants you 1k influence and you only need 2.5k influence to get yourself a free 50 slots storage.  How difficult is it to switch to your personal guild, double click letter, then switch back?



Then sorry to say that you have wasted your beta opportunities by not using it to plan your characters/game play.  No point leveling too high during beta, so I opted to build broad instead.  Besides BWE3, there were also stress testing opportunities.

I only have 2 lvl80 characters, I really can't be bothered to get their personal story to lvl80, both of are stuck at ~40.

I waited 5 years for this game, I wanted to enjoy my first hours/days with my character, not trying to deduct everything..

#318 Daesu

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:28 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 06 December 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I only have 2 lvl80 characters, I really can't be bothered to get their personal story to lvl80, both of are stuck at ~40.

I waited 5 years for this game, I wanted to enjoy my first hours/days with my character, not trying to deduct everything..

In the end that's your call, whether to spend for the extra storage or not. ;)

#319 Astral Projections

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:44 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 06 December 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I only have 2 lvl80 characters, I really can't be bothered to get their personal story to lvl80, both of are stuck at ~40.
I waited 5 years for this game, I wanted to enjoy my first hours/days with my character, not trying to deduct everything..
Just to let you know, in case you didn't, you can also buy influence with in game money. It takes several gold total but you can always just buy some each day. It's what I did for my personal guild.

#320 Gilles VI

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:16 PM

View PostAstral Projections, on 06 December 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

Just to let you know, in case you didn't, you can also buy influence with in game money. It takes several gold total but you can always just buy some each day. It's what I did for my personal guild.

Myea I do have alot of money, but still, it would feel wasted to me.
I'd just prefer converting gold to gems for more bank tabs.

And I would wish they give you an option to expand your collectibles tab, like say let items stack to 500/1000 or so in there.

#321 Daesu

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:57 PM

Let's see, 1 bank tab of 30 slots costs 600 gems which at today's price is about 11g71s68c which is about 39s6c/slot
Paying for the full 2.5k influence for 50 slots guild vault costs 5g which is about 10s/slot.

So it seems to be more worth it to pay for the influence to get your initial 50-slot personal guild vault than it is to pay 600 gems for a bank tab.  This is based on today's price and the gem/gold exchange rate varies, of course.

Edit: Corrected some math error on my part even though the same conclusion is reinforced.  :)  i.e. Not worth it to buy a bank tab with gold right now, if you have not got your initial 50-slot personal guild vault yet.  Paying for the influence to get your initial 50-slot personal guild vault is almost 4 times cheaper than buying a bank tab using gold.

Edited by Daesu, 06 December 2012 - 10:28 PM.


#322 Astral Projections

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:06 PM

The main problem with the guild bank is that you can't put account bound or soul bound items in there. Which makes sense when you realize it's considered a guild bank, not a personal bank. But it does limit you when you are just doing it for yourself. However I have found it useful.

#323 alucard13mmfmj

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:08 PM

I still think a donation type subscription system (pay what you want per month, those that pay average or more gets things like skins, separate line for customer service, and other perks) would be good =.

Or a non-monthly subscription system.. Instead of 15 dollar a month, it should be like 10 cent an hour or something.

Edited by alucard13mmfmj, 06 December 2012 - 10:08 PM.


#324 Soulless

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:20 PM

huh? what are you guys talking about? haha no idea since i havent played in like 2 months.  i come here more than actually playing..

#325 Robsy128

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:47 AM

View Postalucard13mmfmj, on 06 December 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

I still think a donation type subscription system (pay what you want per month, those that pay average or more gets things like skins, separate line for customer service, and other perks) would be good =.

Or a non-monthly subscription system.. Instead of 15 dollar a month, it should be like 10 cent an hour or something.

I wouldn't play the game if there was a separate line for customer service. That just sends completely the wrong message to those who don't pay.

Actually, I wouldn't play if the game was subscription based haha. I'm sure many many others would agree with me on that :)

#326 Zebes

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:09 AM

I keep seeing an erroneous claim in this thread. The general gist of the claim is that altering your chosen method of playstyle or chosen activities of play within the game to make money is something new to the franchise. The far more erroneous version of this claim is that this money-based playing is born of the Gem Shop.

So, first off, in any game you play differently to make more money. It is not unique or born of the gem shop. Secondly, anyone who is honest will admit that getting prestige armor or grinding out the Hall of Monuments in Guild Wars required altering your playstyle to make the needed amount of gold. I know I went through this myself in the time of pre-launch of Guild Wars 2.

Granted, there was a long period before this in which I just accumulated "junk" and stuffed it in my storage as I didn't really need more money to play the game. This is not so much different than my Guild Wars 2 experience. The daily cost of playing in GW2 is higher though, but not a huge departure from the original. I was still able to get all my exotics and extra exotics. Many of the people here complaining about the scarcity of gold actually have more gold than I have. I would consider 100 gold to be upper middle class for the game.

I do feel there is not enough people at the medium level of gold and too much gold tied up by a small percentage of folk. I hover around 10 gold, give or take a few, at 800 hours of play. My most expensive pursuit was having a Corrupted Blade crafted and crafting the Eye of Melandru (which I ended up selling at cost because of market flux *boo*). Ascended gear also creates another tier stat wise that I have to eventually climb up to. If Ascended had no stat increases, I would say the complaints are totally nuts, but with the stat increase there is some minor validity to complaints.

But the idea that you wouldn't ever play differently in a game to make money is not only not true of Guild Wars 1, but not true of any MMO really.

Edited by Zebes, 07 December 2012 - 02:12 AM.


#327 Zebes

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:14 AM

In addition, there are many, many folks who have put zero money into the Gem Shop and others that have spent more gems than they have bought. I have probably spent about $20 worth of gems and spent $10 of real money with 200 gems sitting in my bank currently.

#328 Robsy128

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:42 AM

^ 10 gold? :eek: You're rich! Well... richer than me anyway haha. I usually sit around 4-7 gold, although I spent 5 gold yesterday on one rune, so now I only have 30 silver to my ranger's name.

That said, do I need to buy gems in order to convert them to gold? No... not really. I mean, sure, I need more runes and one sigil, so that's about 15 gold. Since I can get that by doing dungeons I've never even done before, I don't really have a problem with it :)

#329 raspberry jam

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:12 PM

View PostIllein, on 06 December 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

That's why I like fractals. You get everything done inside that matters. Save for gathering, that is.

And if you regard it in a vacuum as you just did, isolating country music as a person's single USP - then please, enlighten me what would be "individual" then by your definition that would make a person in its complete lonesome a unique piece of its species?

Oh this better be good.

PS.: I'd consider COUNTRY MUSIC FANS a group. o_O
But Fractals is boring as shit, I only did it for the gear. And what is USP?

View PostRobsy128, on 06 December 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

I'm talking about life choices. An example would be to help someone or not. To show compassion to another human being. Am I kind, or am I a jerk? Do I want to kick that guy's face in, or will I let it slide? All of these choices define us.

That whole second paragraph, whilst interesting to read, didn't really have anything to do with what we were discussing before haha. You said that Arenanet slow things down and make the player bored - thus pushing them towards the gem store. But a lot of the people in the game are still having a lot of fun, so they're not pushed towards the gem store. So, again, I don't really see your argument here.



This is completely off topic now, so maybe we should move this into Madness Incarnate? Anyway, a lot of people like Country music, sure, but how many of them also like motorcycles? Fewer. Now how many of them play MMOs as well? Even fewer people. How many of them like art? Fewer. You can't define someone with one thing. It's a combination of everything they like and have an opinion on that makes them an individual.

Mm, I'm talking about fun, and how illusory it is. I understand why you didn't get it, though. People are motivated by fun... but also by boredom. If GW2 was all boring, there would be no gem sales because there would be no players. If it was all fun, there would be no gem sales either because those are needed to stave off the boredom. The correct mix is tricky to find, even more so when you need to add enough polish that the content gets across without friction. GW2 has IMO failed, there's too much friction (bugs etc.) and it's not anywhere near as fun nor as boring as it should be (let me explain that. when I say it's not boring enough, I mean that it fails to motivate players to go through boredom. Part of that lack of motivation is because of the lack of sub fee).

Edited by raspberry jam, 07 December 2012 - 02:22 PM.


#330 Robsy128

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:34 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 07 December 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

Mm, I'm talking about fun, and how illusory it is. I understand why you didn't get it, though. People are motivated by fun... but also by boredom. If GW2 was all boring, there would be no gem sales because there would be no players. If it was all fun, there would be no gem sales either because those are needed to stave off the boredom. The correct mix is tricky to find, even more so when you need to add enough polish that the content gets across without friction. GW2 has IMO failed, there's too much friction (bugs etc.) and it's not anywhere near as fun nor as boring as it should be (let me explain that. when I say it's not boring enough, I mean that it fails to motivate players to go through boredom. Part of that lack of motivation is because of the lack of sub fee).

Don't talk about identity otherwise Feathermoore will get upset :P

I don't understand your logic.

Games are meant to be fun.
Guild Wars 2 is a game.
Therefore, Guild Wars 2 is meant to be fun.
People have opinions on what is fun and what is not.
I'm a person.
I think Guild Wars 2 is fun.
You're a person.
You think Guild Wars 2 is boring.

If you think it's boring, don't play. And no, a subscription fee has nothing to do with it. WoW is as boring as hell (in my opinion) yet they still charge a subscription for it. SW:TOR is as boring as hell (in my opinion), but hey! There's the subscription model once again.

In short: subscription models are not needed to make a game fun. Designers should also do their best to make things fun for the players, otherwise they're pretty rubbish game designers haha.




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