Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
- - - - -

Fractal Support Guardian Build

support guardian fractals build

  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 Hickeroar

Hickeroar

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:03 PM

I am nearly to lvl 80 (72) on a guardian I rolled, and I am going 100% support with him. I should be 80 by end-of-weekend.

I’ve already pre-purchased an entire set of exotic armor, weapons, and trinkets for him at lvl 80 which have healing power boost on everything, and I’ve been practicing support stuff in dungeons for the last 30 levels or so. I am loving it.

Right now I’ve completely filled up the +heal and +boon duration trees and picked a few things in there. I just started on the toughness one for the last 10 points.

The thing is, I don’t know if this is the right direction if I eventually plan on doing higher level fractals with him.
Can someone offer a good support fractal build or at least offer some suggestions?

(( Posted this on the ANet forums as well. ))

Edited by Hickeroar, 29 November 2012 - 08:03 PM.


#2 Hickeroar

Hickeroar

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:09 PM

http://www.guildhead...mcM9daxxmMsbosb This is what I'm thinking of going with.

#3 G L J

G L J

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 608 posts
  • Location:Texas
  • Server:Sea of Sorrows

Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:55 PM

I'm going to be negative here, because I see a LOT of guardians make this mistake and it is a major pet peeve. Don't take this personally,

Here's your first problem - crippling overspecialization. A support guardian still produces very respectable DPS for a marginal loss of healing. An offense guardian still produces very respectable support for a marginal lose of DPS. Take any idea of a 'pure support' build and throw it out the window. You be significantly more valuable if you can do both damage and support than if you just do support.

Other points:
Boon duration isn't very impressive, Virtues is the weakest tree to go deep in. Guardians have many ways to maintain regeneration and protection with only a small amount of it (or, if you use hammer, none).

Cleric's Armor is shit for guardians. We have high base values and crummy ratios. It doesn't protect you against 15k damage boss hits (which you WILL take, everyone screws up eventually).

For a support build, guardians need to be tanky. Guardians have lots of ways to soak up and prevent damage, if they build for it. Your build isn't very tanky. You're not a caster, guardians do not make good casters.

~

Here's a fractal build for you, if you want to look through it: http://gw2skills.net...i9QjfsjXPcIFZIA

Use one of these set combinations
Soldier's weapons/armor, Knight's jewelry
Knight's weapons/armor, Valkyrie jewelry
Soldier's weapons/armor, Berserker jewelry
Valkrie weapons/armor, knight's jewlery

The build covers dps, healing, condition removal, and damage soaking.

#4 Drekor

Drekor

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1619 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Guild Tag:[TSP]
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:52 PM

I agree with G L J's assessment for the most part with the major exception being that you need to be tanky. Which really isn't true if you have AH you are very durable outside bosses 1 shot abilities and you should be dodging those. Although the other thing is we don't really have bad ratios, the problem is we have poor synergies in our healing. For example one of our best methods of healing is selfless daring especially when you can maintain vigorous precision. Ever try getting precision and healing power together? You basically have on choice: Magi and it comes with vitality which isn't ideal in pve, especially in a build with good healing.

I'd recommend a few things and the rest is really not necessary.

1) Altruistic Healing - This will keep you alive through pretty much everything except if you get 1 shot.

2) Hammer + Staff - You can use GS in lieu of hammer but the group protection from hammer is huge and staff gives you a ranged option in addition to effectively giving your group a huge buff with empower and a massive heal for yourself(partly thanks to AH)

3) Stun Break - You'll get knocked down all over the place in fractals you need to be able to get up quickly having stability on top of it is a bonus(SYG is a great shout to bring!)

#5 Yui San

Yui San

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 292 posts
  • Location:Zurich
  • Server:Gandara

Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:14 AM

View PostG L J, on 29 November 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

I'm going to be negative here, because I see a LOT of guardians make this mistake[...]

If all this was true, I would be the most unsuccessfull Guardian. ^^ I play a heavy support build a lot, especially in PuGs (where I saw many players focusing on damage only) and it works perfectly fine (for me that is). You can't say something is bad or even useless, it always depends on the team. I also have my damage gear and I use that when the group is more balanced.

#6 Mister Stygian

Mister Stygian

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 113 posts

Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:56 AM

Being pure support can help out in WvW zergs, but you shouldn't play it in dungeons.  

However, anyone discrediting the virtue line in guardians, I have to to question. Boon duration with retaliation makes any Guardian using this line great at DPS while still being able to heal or stack more damage.

Edited by Mister Stygian, 30 November 2012 - 08:00 AM.


#7 Featherman

Featherman

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1028 posts
  • Location:Frolicking in Kalos

Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:05 AM

Stats and traits are down to preference and fighting style so I won't comment too much one them. The most important thing about fractals is well-timed and opportunistic use of your utilities. Stand Your Ground is an amazing skill in several of the stages and should be used even if you're not specced for shouts. Another utility to consider is wall of reflection since projectiles can murder your team in certain stages.

#8 Thaddeuz

Thaddeuz

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 561 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Guild Tag:[TRAP]
  • Server:Crystal Desert

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

I agree that you should'nt focus only on 1 role with your guardian.

Cleric's armor is not shit for Guardian, but its true that you shouldn't use one that. I mix it with Magi's armor for a boost in Vitality since the guardian is really poor in health. It also help balancing Power vs Precision.

GLJ you give armor and accessories combinaison for high dmg / ''tanky'' guardian. But its not the only way to build a guardian. Its a good build, but not the only one. I use healing power because with that i double my regeneration from Virtue of Resolve and my shout. My healing signet heal me 85% of my hp that allow to fight a long time during dungeon. Yes i do a little bit less of dmg but i'm usually the last man standing, able to revive in difficult situation my allies.

Also, the virtue trait line is a great line to invest point. I don't use it presently because my guildmates stopped to do fractal for the moment, but in high level fractal the trait line allow you to boost your consecration. Once upgraded, the four consecration become your best friends each being amazing in certain situation. Santuary and Wall of Reflection in combinaison with Shield of Avenger and your 5th Shield skill allow your party and you to go throw certain part of the Fractals so much easier.

#9 G L J

G L J

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 608 posts
  • Location:Texas
  • Server:Sea of Sorrows

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:50 PM

View PostThaddeuz, on 04 December 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

I agree that you should'nt focus only on 1 role with your guardian.

Cleric's armor is not shit for Guardian, but its true that you shouldn't use one that. I mix it with Magi's armor for a boost in Vitality since the guardian is really poor in health. It also help balancing Power vs Precision.

GLJ you give armor and accessories combinaison for high dmg / ''tanky'' guardian. But its not the only way to build a guardian. Its a good build, but not the only one. I use healing power because with that i double my regeneration from Virtue of Resolve and my shout. My healing signet heal me 85% of my hp that allow to fight a long time during dungeon. Yes i do a little bit less of dmg but i'm usually the last man standing, able to revive in difficult situation my allies.

The problem with your argument for healing power is that you shouldn't be waiting until you're at 15% of your health to use signet of resolve - going that low dramatically increases the probabilities that you're going to get instagibbed by a big attack. The problem - there - is that you create a massive amount of wasted health by using it before you're at 85% of your maximum health. You're also going to be waiting longer between heals - which can actually lower the amount healed by increasing the duration at which the skill is not being used or recharging.

I listed builds for tanky and high damage guardians because those two combine well. IMHO, it's better to run the tankiness and need less healing than it is to run the less tanky and need more healing - but your mileage may vary.

Quote

Also, the virtue trait line is a great line to invest point. I don't use it presently because my guildmates stopped to do fractal for the moment, but in high level fractal the trait line allow you to boost your consecration. Once upgraded, the four consecration become your best friends each being amazing in certain situation. Santuary and Wall of Reflection in combinaison with Shield of Avenger and your 5th Shield skill allow your party and you to go throw certain part of the Fractals so much easier.

I argued that going deep into virtues for the boon duration is a bad reason to go deep into virtues. If you go 20 into virtues in order to get the two consecration traits than you have a valid reason to go deep into virtues. I go 20 into virtues in order to get at Master of Consecrations and Absolute Resolve.

#10 Strife025

Strife025

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 587 posts
  • Location:Irvine, CA
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:53 PM

At 20+, Wall of Reflection and Spirit Shield is godly in fractals. Makes so many things easier and a couple of boss fights a joke.

I ran 0-10-30-30-0 forever because you never really needed consecrations for normal dungeons.

I switched to 0-10-30-20-10 though for fractals now which is very useful for using those 2 skills depending if I need shorter cooldown or 50% longer duration on spirit shield.

#11 MrAmbiguous

MrAmbiguous

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 20 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Guild Tag:[TMoC]

Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:17 AM

A lot of you people make very good points; however, I am reluctant to believe that increased Retaliation duration is a worthwhile investment in any PvE scenario.  The NPCs normally worth worrying about have large slugs of attacks, and more often than not you are trying to avoid taking the brunt of any damage whenever possible, and this includes all party members.

While I am not about to argue the effectiveness/lack of effectiveness on Healing Power, do keep in mind that it will affect Regeneration as well as Virtue of Resolve.  Going deep into Honor grants you the ability to give allies Virtue of Resolve, which takes into account your Healing Power (but does not take into account Absolute Resolution from the Virtue tree).  You can, essentially, do some fairly decent passive healing through Hold The Line! and Battle Presence, but that is all situational, like most things.

#12 Haze

Haze

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:41 AM

Level 27 fractal Guardian here.

TL;DR of below: Every skill has a time and place. Make sure your traits have a decent enough of diversity to be effective in a majority of situations (so you can change them and on the fly). Consecrations have a big place in this dungeon. Weapon choice matters. Don't sit in the back and cower.

-----------------
Most of what is said above is true, but I hope I can contribute a bigger picture to how to get a decent fractal build going, and not just toward PvE in general

One of the biggest things to note is changing skills and retraiting as you move along the fractals (essentially unimportant in levels 1-10). For example, you may bring Wall of Reflection, Shield of Absorption (with 30 sec duration), and Stand Your Ground! for the beginning of the Uncategorized fractal (post level 10) to defend against the harpies who have an AoE ranged KD. Upon reaching the boss Old Tom, however, you should swap Wall of Reflection (because it is useless aside from condition removal which can be granted from almost every other guardian skill) for another skill, such as Sanctuary (more protection against bosses attack), or a shout.This, of course comes from experience, so learn your fractals =p

This of course varies by build, and as I personally run 0-0-30-20-20, I have room for flexibility as far as that goes, i.e. traiting for a longer duration Shield of Absorption+ longer consecrations, or maybe condition removal/meditation cooldown. Also dual symbol traiting/shout mastery + empowering might)

There are some skills which I personally find become obsolete in the later fractals, but some I find are key:

-A Stun Breaker (already mentioned): Save Yourselves vs. Judge's Intervention. Judge's Intervention is neat, Save Yourselves is practical. Save yourself (literally) the trouble, as it also grants increased DPS plus health regeneration/protection.

-Projectile reflection/absoprtion (earlier I mentioned changing your skills as you move along, this is one of those situational things, there are some points in a fractal where projectiles are simply non-existent, and therefore these skills should be quickly reslotted, with anything even semi-useful, shouts provide global utility, meditations are good for survival)

-Heals: Shelter vs. Signet of Resolve. Through experience, I personally prefer Shelter, but it's personal preference here. I find if you don't have the agony resistance necessary for a fight, bring Signet of Resolve, as the bigger heal is more likely to save you. For all other fights though, Shelter is IMO better for a majority of the situations I find myself/party in, especially when your dodge bar is low, or you've been caught in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

-Elite Choice: Renewed Focus/Racial elite summon. I understand your desire to run a support build, but you get far more on-time utility than compared to the Tomes. Racial elite summons are good for dps and to eat damage (obsolete in later fractals because they can't eat Agony, unfortunately). Most boss fights aren't really built well for the tomes (what i mean is, fights where you sit still and dps until the boss dies with a dodge every 20 seconds in the fight), and are usually "die unless you dodge/block the attack(s)" (the only ones that comes to mind where tomes are useful are maybe the two in the Swamp Fractals).

-Weapon Choice: Swap these. All the time. I don't mean just click/press your swap button. I mean, literally go to your inventory and change your weapons. Use Greatsword when __________. Use Hammer when __________. Use Staff when __________. Use Scepter/Shield when ______________. Use Scepter/Focus when ____________.
You get the idea.
You don't have to put too much thought into it. Really. I promise.
Scepter dps > Staff Dps. Staff utility > scepter utility, but that's not really fair. Scepter/Shield/focus provide far more effective utility IMO than the AoE heal Staff provides. I'll breakdown a few of the fractals' final boss fights for you, so maybe you  can get an understanding of how much skill choice is important and varying.

-Uncategorized Fractal: Raving Asura and his army of 4 Cat Golems.
-Raving Asura has a 3-projectile attack which he uses about every 10 seconds or so. Each projectile inflicts agony. (I run Wall of Reflection, Shield of Absorption, and Sanctuary to counteract this, granting 50 seconds of protection versus Agony). You can dodge these projectiles. This boss cannot be killed, and is not part of the objective of winning.
-The Cat Golems each individually activate after the death of another (you face one at a time), and are what you have to kill in order to defeat the fractal. Upon the defeat of all 4, all 4 will revive and you will face all 4 at once. Greatsword does wonders here, as the golems have no anti-CC (Defiant) and you can pull them all in at once for quick kill, this helps especially when your party members are incapable of dodging agony projectiles from the main boss when you run out of  projectile reflection/absorption.

Urban Battleground Fractal: Captain Amysh.
-I would argue consecrations here are almost useless, and would suggest Spirit Weapons if you have the proper spec, or Shouts (which you can't go wrong with).
-Everything's easy until he brings out his Fiery Greatsword and one-shots everyone. Maintaining Protection/Retaliation through shouts, or DPS (through spirit weapons, however small) works well. The immobilize on the Scepter, if you can time it with his Fiery Whirl will save you and your party members lives.

-Volcanic Fractal: Legendary Grawl Shaman.
-If you don't cheat, this boss I find is the most challenging for PUGs and truly makes or breaks the team.
-You need to maintain max range, and standing still is a quick way to get killed (you get set on fire if you stand still). Therefore, scepter/shield or focus is generally the best way to handle it. You can melee the boss if you're brave and have lots of blocks/endurance regen, but not a good idea unless you're running 2+ guardians to do this... there are particular times you can melee though.
-At every 25% mark of the boss' health, he will spawn Lava Elementals, and spawn his shield, which requires 30+ attacks (any source of raw damage/bleed/poison) to break. If you don't break it in time, he'll heal about 20%, making you have to repeat the process again. However, due the Guardian's lackluster ability to cause multiple hits in a small span of time (aside from Smite and Whirling Wrath), I suggest going support here in the form of speccing against the lava elementals. If you can get a Shield of Absorption up, you can protect against the lava elementals and give your party members a base of operations against the main boss' shield. I would actually suggest Greatsword here, as you can pull the lava elementals toward you and begin culling them whilst your teammates focus on the more important objective.

As similar as the Volcanic and Uncategorized fractals boss fights' were, keep in mind that getting to both of the fights are very different, as Volcanic has a section where running hammer is very effective, as well as Uncategorized having sections where SYG and Retreat are both very good choices.

Anyway, just my 2c.

#13 farkov47

farkov47

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 52 posts

Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:00 AM

Here you go.

Yes, consecration is shituational.

#14 neon1300

neon1300

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:54 PM

View PostHaze, on 05 December 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:



lv40 guardian here.
What Haze said is 100% true. A good guardian needs to swap his skills frequently according to the situation.
Whoever think you can just run high level fractals with a fixed build must be dreaming.

#15 Strife025

Strife025

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 587 posts
  • Location:Irvine, CA
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:09 PM

View PostHaze, on 05 December 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

-Uncategorized Fractal: Raving Asura and his army of 4 Cat Golems.
-Raving Asura has a 3-projectile attack which he uses about every 10 seconds or so. Each projectile inflicts agony. (I run Wall of Reflection, Shield of Absorption, and Sanctuary to counteract this, granting 50 seconds of protection versus Agony). You can dodge these projectiles. This boss cannot be killed, and is not part of the objective of winning.
-The Cat Golems each individually activate after the death of another (you face one at a time), and are what you have to kill in order to defeat the fractal. Upon the defeat of all 4, all 4 will revive and you will face all 4 at once. Greatsword does wonders here, as the golems have no anti-CC (Defiant) and you can pull them all in at once for quick kill, this helps especially when your party members are incapable of dodging agony projectiles from the main boss when you run out of  projectile reflection/absorption.

Urban Battleground Fractal: Captain Amysh.
-I would argue consecrations here are almost useless, and would suggest Spirit Weapons if you have the proper spec, or Shouts (which you can't go wrong with).
-Everything's easy until he brings out his Fiery Greatsword and one-shots everyone. Maintaining Protection/Retaliation through shouts, or DPS (through spirit weapons, however small) works well. The immobilize on the Scepter, if you can time it with his Fiery Whirl will save you and your party members lives.

-Volcanic Fractal: Legendary Grawl Shaman.
-If you don't cheat, this boss I find is the most challenging for PUGs and truly makes or breaks the team.
-You need to maintain max range, and standing still is a quick way to get killed (you get set on fire if you stand still). Therefore, scepter/shield or focus is generally the best way to handle it. You can melee the boss if you're brave and have lots of blocks/endurance regen, but not a good idea unless you're running 2+ guardians to do this... there are particular times you can melee though.
-At every 25% mark of the boss' health, he will spawn Lava Elementals, and spawn his shield, which requires 30+ attacks (any source of raw damage/bleed/poison) to break. If you don't break it in time, he'll heal about 20%, making you have to repeat the process again. However, due the Guardian's lackluster ability to cause multiple hits in a small span of time (aside from Smite and Whirling Wrath), I suggest going support here in the form of speccing against the lava elementals. If you can get a Shield of Absorption up, you can protect against the lava elementals and give your party members a base of operations against the main boss' shield. I would actually suggest Greatsword here, as you can pull the lava elementals toward you and begin culling them whilst your teammates focus on the more important objective.

As similar as the Volcanic and Uncategorized fractals boss fights' were, keep in mind that getting to both of the fights are very different, as Volcanic has a section where running hammer is very effective, as well as Uncategorized having sections where SYG and Retreat are both very good choices.

Anyway, just my 2c.

Few things for these fractals. For Asura you can reflect the bolts back onto the golems if you position your group in front of the golem and put a wall of reflection down. I run 2 guardians in my group and we clear this boss in under 1 minute because at 20+ the agony is a instant kill on the golems. Still need to record a video of this since it's the only fractal I don't have recorded.

For Ascalon, he only pulls out greatsword if you go into melee range. If everyone stays range he stays in staff form until he dies.

For Shaman, it's best to pull the elementals to the shaman, to kill them and get the shield down fast. You can wall of reflection and spirit shield on the shaman to block both the lava elementals and his bow attack when he gets out of the shield while killing the elementals. If the spirit shield is on him it will keep blocking his agony arrows when he is out of the shield. If anyone goes down they should rally from killing elementals since this is obviously the hardest part until you can get back to range. Here is an example of a quick easy shaman fight.


Edited by Strife025, 05 December 2012 - 04:23 PM.


#16 farkov47

farkov47

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 52 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:17 AM

good post strife.

#17 Thaddeuz

Thaddeuz

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 561 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Guild Tag:[TRAP]
  • Server:Crystal Desert

Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:09 PM

View PostG L J, on 04 December 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

The problem with your argument for healing power is that you shouldn't be waiting until you're at 15% of your health to use signet of resolve - going that low dramatically increases the probabilities that you're going to get instagibbed by a big attack. The problem - there - is that you create a massive amount of wasted health by using it before you're at 85% of your maximum health. You're also going to be waiting longer between heals - which can actually lower the amount healed by increasing the duration at which the skill is not being used or recharging.


You're totally right. But for now i'm using my Guardian in normal dungeon (except Arah) and i use my healing power to support my group with Healing Breeze (i talked about Signet of Resolve to make a point i dont alway use it with this build),  and skill that give regeneration to my allies like Hold the line, Symbol of Faith and Ray of Judment.

Its true that i waste some of the healing i put on myself while healing my group, and i will anyway need to change my build again when my guild go back to high level fractal. But for now, i can keep my party alive.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: support, guardian, fractals, build

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users