32 replies to this topic

[Frozire]

e-Sport: Electronic Sports League to Pick up Guild Wars 2?
ESL.eu's Admin Staff Member Peli recently posted on reddit that they are indeed thinking about picking up Guild Wars 2 to be a part of their e-sport leagues. This would mean a huge deal for Guild Wars 2 e-Sport scene and could possibly be the beginning of something great!

They want the community to give them feedback on this idea so be sure to drop by and let them know just how much we want this!

Quote

What is ESL?
ESL is one of the biggest e-sport leagues in the world. It includes many amateur competitions in various games and some more serious tournaments like Intel Extreme Masters or EPS.

What do we want?
We are thinking about opening a Guild Wars 2 section on ESL.eu. To make it happen, we need few things:

• admins - league cannot live by itself. At the moment, nobody from our Staff is playing the game. We are looking for admins that will fill our game knowledge gap.
  
• players - even more important thing. It's simple, if we are making a league, we need some players to play in there.

read more: http://www.reddit.co..._esleu_why_not/

Reminder on Guru - State of the Game Stream Tomorrow!
If this exciting announcement got you lusting for more then you are in luck! Tomorrow(Friday 30th) at 8 PM. GMT+1 (11 AM. PST) we will be hosting the very first episode of the State of the Game – Structured PvP Discussion. [Read More Here]

For the very first episode we will be joined by ArenaNet developer, Jonathan ‘Chaplan’ Sharp and we will be featuring top players! Be sure to tune in tomorrow at own3d.tv/gw2guru!

[GSSB Lunaspike]

There is no way GW2 will make it as an esport right now. There are simply too many issues, and for the most part they are being completely ignored. I'm not even addressing class imbalances, even though if this becomes a real esport that will stand out pretty big.

Maybe having someone show interest in it will give Anet the kick in the pants they need to stop ignoring their pvp crowd.

[Ziddy]

All that is needed from Arena net at the moment are PRIVATE SERVERS.  Players/Leagues can take care of the rest.

[Xuphor]

[quote name='GSSB Lunaspike' timestamp='1354238341' post='2101913']
Maybe having someone show interest in it will give Anet the kick in the pants they need to stop ignoring their pvp crowd.
[/quote]

Maybe, but considering the ESL Admin said:
[quote]At the moment, nobody from our Staff is playing the game.[/quote]
Something tells me they are just going for the popularity of the game to get more members into ESL, it's practically admitting to it. You never know what Arenanet's thinking though.

[Black Metal]

if GW2 became an ESL (which it isn't ready for yet), those very suspicious disconnects and lag spikes during GW1 GvG tournies would become even more obvious.

[Green]

Simply put GW2 is not ready for this. Beyond the current lack of Observer mode and private servers, the skill and trait bugs for each profession need to be fixed.

The following are links to the Official GW2 forums for each profession that details the bugs in their skills and traits

Elementalist [url="https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/elementalist/NEW-Elementalist-bugs-and-glitches-thread"]https://forum-en.gui...glitches-thread[/url]
Engineer [url="https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/engineer/Engineer-bugs-compilation"]https://forum-en.gui...ugs-compilation[/url]
Guardian [url="https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/guardian/Guardian-Bugs-compilation"]https://forum-en.gui...ugs-compilation[/url]
Mesmer [url="https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/mesmer/Mesmer-List-of-bugged-abilities-and-traits"]https://forum-en.gui...ties-and-traits[/url]
Necromancer [url="https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/necromancer/Necromancer-bugs-compilation-NB44-NT18-NP7"]https://forum-en.gui...n-NB44-NT18-NP7[/url]
Ranger [url="https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Bug-List"]https://forum-en.gui...Ranger-Bug-List[/url]
Thief [url="https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/thief/Bugs-and-Issues-Compilation"]https://forum-en.gui...ues-Compilation[/url]
Warrior [url="https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/warrior/Comprehensive-list-of-Warrior-bugs-2"]https://forum-en.gui...-Warrior-bugs-2[/url]

Edited by Green, 30 November 2012 - 02:06 AM.

[Sephirox507]

Is a start, Anet is doing some serious bug testing inside so hopefully before the Wintersday Patch we will see a lot of things fix.

[NotKMoose]

When thief isn't the most retardely easy mode for high success profession in PvP combined with the plethora of bugs in this game I'll even begin to take something like this seriously lol.

[Vingilot]

No, just no. It's my opinion but seriously, ANET needs to fix A LOT of stuff in the game before it can become a E-Sport to rival others like League of Legends. Granted the game is still fairly young so maybe some time down the road when things are more smoothed out but at it's current state, no. It took awhile for LoL to smooth things out and it's a perfect E-Sport game now, so we'll just wait and see if ANET could give this side of their game the same attention.

Edited by Vingilot, 30 November 2012 - 02:58 AM.

[fatality39]

There is no way in hell.  They have some type of ulterior motive here.  GW2 pvp is so boring right now, it's not even funny. They have all but ignored the pvp scene.  I seriously believe they have been over their heads since launch...it's been kinda obvious imo the last few weeks, especially.

[Happiness Factory]

I honestly have no idea what you guys are talking about... aside from the loading screen bug the only thing that's preventing GW2 from becoming an amateur competitive game is private servers. Class balance is pretty good as there's nothing that's glaringly overpowered, some things may be "META" atm like necros and mesmers and guardians but every class can be played in tournaments without real issues.

Of course there might be a lack of build variety but that has nothing to do with becoming an e-sport. Not everything has to be balanced to perfection for example in league of legends, almost half of the champions hardly ever see competitive play and cycle though FotM regularly.

To summarize what im trying to say, since the last patch paid tournaments have been known to be a fun, engaging, and competitive environment. Mostly because the block bug, svanir glitch and abusive builds stopped and the new timers have made fights more decisive. The only thing stopping that experience is the dumb loading screen and the lack of private servers.

Considering how far the game has gotten since release i dont think that's very far away.

[GSSB Lunaspike]

[quote name='Happiness Factory' timestamp='1354247898' post='2102023']
I honestly have no idea what you guys are talking about... aside from the loading screen bug the only thing that's preventing GW2 from becoming an amateur competitive game is private servers. Class balance is pretty good as there's nothing that's glaringly overpowered, some things may be "META" atm like necros and mesmers and guardians but every class can be played in tournaments without real issues.

Of course there might be a lack of build variety but that has nothing to do with becoming an e-sport. Not everything has to be balanced to perfection for example in league of legends, almost half of the champions hardly ever see competitive play and cycle though FotM regularly.

To summarize what im trying to say, since the last patch paid tournaments have been known to be a fun, engaging, and competitive environment. Mostly because the block bug, svanir glitch and abusive builds stopped and the new timers have made fights more decisive. The only thing stopping that experience is the dumb loading screen and the lack of private servers.

Considering how far the game has gotten since release i dont think that's very far away.
[/quote]

How much spvp/tpvp have you played that the only bug you've seen is the loading screen bug? Maybe you haven't seen the others, in which case consider yourself very lucky. For the rest of us we've noticed lots of bugs. As someone earlier posted each profession has a ton of bugs that have to be given attention.

As for LoL you are right, there is only a small percent of the champions that are viable. S3 is aiming to change that of course. Even with that there needs to be variety. Each profession would need at least 2 or 3 good (not just viable) builds that will work. Look at what happened to WoWs run. You ended up seeing almost the exact same matchups, with the exact same builds. It was boring, and didn't attract much attention. Compared to the variety of builds available in GW1 the current setups are lacking in so many ways.

They need to have at least the following to even remotely be taken seriously
Observer mode, this is absolutely required.
Bug fixes, not only for skills/talents but also terrain and graphics issues.
Viability of some professions is still in question, and for good reason.
Tooltips HAVE to be updated, and corrected, and more information needs to be available to the players.

Those things aren't optional, GW2 will NEVER make it as an esport without them. Consider the level of competition out there for it right now. LoL had to learn most of that the hard way, but they did learn. They continued to refine the game, and provide those tools. Once they did though look at how much the game has grown. Anyone that has been there from the early days can tell you that.

Pretty much anyone that pvps even if it's just wvw is aware of some of the issues.

Oh and let me go ahead and point out that I'm not posting this to hate on Anet or GW2. I'm posting it because I would actually like to see this game become a competitive esport. They promised so much for their pvp players, and so far it's been nothing but a giant let down.

[Featherman]

Good. I know this game isn't ready as an eSport and that balancing isn't easy, but at this rate ANet needs as many candles lit under their butts as possible. Light a kitten bonfire even, the current state of PvP that bad.

For those unaware of the issues with sPvP, this video sums it up pretty well. Watch it before you comment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvXDv70-6Gg

[GSSB Lunaspike]

[quote name='Featherman' timestamp='1354254933' post='2102100']
Good. I know this game isn't ready as an eSport and that balancing isn't easy, but at this rate ANet needs as many candles lit under their butts as possible. Light a kitten bonfire even, the current state of PvP that bad.

For those unaware of the issues with sPvP, this video sums it up pretty well. Watch it before you comment.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvXDv70-6Gg[/media]
[/quote]

I've seen it, and he's pretty much spot on in my opinion. There is just no chance of GW2 going into esports as it stands now. I understand why Anet is putting so much into PvE. PvE pays the bills, and that's fine. They have said they completely different teams working on each one. I think the problem is that the PvP team is stuck without the other teams helping them out. The skill balance team needs to get in gear, the programming team needs to get spectator mode in etc. Once those other teams are in gear I think the PvP team might be able to bring the game into it.

[styken]

just a big LOOL.

impossible in near future GW2 became a e-sport game, especially with the thousand of bugs, a dedicated spvp team that clearly dont know much what to do.  the simple fact they cant fix the loading bug show clear this game cant be a e-sport game, they take insane time to correct anything.

when who the hell start (try!!) balance classes before correct major class bugs?

[quote name='Happiness Factory' timestamp='1354247898' post='2102023']
I honestly have no idea what you guys are talking about... aside from the loading screen bug the only thing that's preventing GW2 from becoming an amateur competitive game is private servers. Class balance is pretty good as there's nothing that's glaringly overpowered, some things may be "META" atm like necros and mesmers and guardians but every class can be played in tournaments without real issues.

Of course there might be a lack of build variety but that has nothing to do with becoming an e-sport. Not everything has to be balanced to perfection for example in league of legends, almost half of the champions hardly ever see competitive play and cycle though FotM regularly.

To summarize what im trying to say, since the last patch paid tournaments have been known to be a fun, engaging, and competitive environment. Mostly because the block bug, svanir glitch and abusive builds stopped and the new timers have made fights more decisive. The only thing stopping that experience is the dumb loading screen and the lack of private servers.

Considering how far the game has gotten since release i dont think that's very far away.
[/quote]

any class can be played on tournaments? hmmmm.....rangers will be happy  to read your post.

[Roland Der Meister]

The only thing keeping this game from becoming a Esport is its own community Anet can fix bugs till there blue in the face but it will never keep the community happy people always find something to complain about.

[GSSB Lunaspike]

[quote name='Roland Der Meister' timestamp='1354270115' post='2102241']
The only thing keeping this game from becoming a Esport is its own community Anet can fix bugs till there blue in the face but it will never keep the community happy people always find something to complain about.
[/quote]

You are partially right if by "community" you mean the amount of people that have simply quit. Queue times alone can tell you that much.

[MaZt]

Anet should focused more on PvP rather trying to cater to the PvE crowd which most already grow bored of it. By focusing on PvP side and trying to grow GW2 as an esport, the word would have spread around and more hardcore PvPers from LoL and other games would have promoted it in their twitch channel causing massive inflation of players wanting to try the game but the way I see it know they completely turned their back on the PvP crowd and try to cater to PvE more which already WoW does a thousand times better and that killed the PvP and maybe the game.

Instead of focusing on whats unique about this game(Horizontal PvP) they focused on the staff that every MMO has in their game(More content and dungeons which hardcore PvErs chew in a few days) and the others do it better.

Edited by MaZt, 30 November 2012 - 10:54 AM.

[FoxBat]

ESL can make custom rules to deal with imbalances and some bugs even, like they do for many horribly balanced games (hello fighters). They can't even get started without private servers though, and the gem costs involved with those may also be a barrier.

Edited by FoxBat, 30 November 2012 - 10:58 AM.

[Lufi]

[quote name='GSSB Lunaspike' timestamp='1354250890' post='2102048']
They need to have at least the following to even remotely be taken seriously
Observer mode, this is absolutely required.
Bug fixes, not only for skills/talents but also terrain and graphics issues.
Viability of some professions is still in question, and for good reason.
Tooltips HAVE to be updated, and corrected, and more information needs to be available to the players.
[/quote]

I agree it's important, but necessarly? WoW somehow got into ESL.

[Roan Rivers]

Gw2 is not ready.
E-Sports require much more fluid and fair gameplay mechanics than GW2 PvP currently has to offer.
Besides, you gotta remember that E-Sports have to be entertaining to watch as well as play.  I don't get too excited watching people in WvW from a distance, especially when they just beating on a door half the time.
Also, in PvP there's not much diversity in what Gw2 has to offer yet.  It's either capture points or bashing on gates all day.
I'm sure at some point Gw2 will be ready for E-Sports, but at the moment, it's just too young and needs to focus on bettering itself as time goes on, instead of reaching for more publicity.

Here's something related.

[media]http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/pro-gaming[/media]

Edited by Roan Rivers, 30 November 2012 - 03:41 PM.

[Chalky]

Lufi, on 30 November 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

I agree it's important, but necessarly? WoW somehow got into ESL.

WoW got into ESL by being absolutely vast and packed with players.  GW2 isn't, so it needs to be good and fully polished and it's not.

I'm pretty convinced that if GW2 ever becomes suitable for esports it'll be when everyone's already moved on.  GW1's esports potential was squandered and it started with a fully featured and complex game mode.  GW2 doesn't even have that.

[Gilles VI]

Roan Rivers, on 30 November 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Gw2 is not ready.
E-Sports require much more fluid and fair gameplay mechanics than GW2 PvP currently has to offer.
Besides, you gotta remember that E-Sports have to be entertaining to watch as well as play.  I don't get too excited watching people in WvW from a distance, especially when they just beating on a door half the time.
Also, in PvP there's not much diversity in what Gw2 has to offer yet.  It's either capture points or bashing on gates all day.
I'm sure at some point Gw2 will be ready for E-Sports, but at the moment, it's just too young and needs to focus on bettering itself as time goes on, instead of reaching for more publicity.

Here's something related.

http://penny-arcade....sode/pro-gaming

When talking about e-sports we're talking about sPvP/tPvP, not WvW..
And tell me about the difference in LoL e-sport?
One good worked out game-mode trumps any amount of boring matches (TDM,...)

[Zero_Soulreaver]

I hate how people keep comparing other games and making that their reason why GW2 can be an esport.  It doesn't make any kind of sense, let's just focus on GW2.  One of GW2's hugest issues is that people can't stop talking about WoW and other games while playing it.

GW2 really isn't quite ready yet, if they make some changes then maybe.  Still even after adjusting, it has to appeal to a more broad audience than it has right now.

Edited by Zero_Soulreaver, 30 November 2012 - 05:30 PM.

[Leshil]

Chalky, on 30 November 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

WoW got into ESL by being absolutely vast and packed with players.  GW2 isn't, so it needs to be good and fully polished and it's not.

I'm pretty convinced that if GW2 ever becomes suitable for esports it'll be when everyone's already moved on.  GW1's esports potential was squandered and it started with a fully featured and complex game mode.  GW2 doesn't even have that.

This ^

GW2 devs have really been a let down in my opinion.  They made an artisically beautiful world, but squandered the opportunity they had at the start with PVP.  They are most focused on monetizing the game with long gold grinds and focusing on one off events in PVE.  When will devs understand that timing is everything?  Yes, LoL took a year to get going, but that is a MOBA, whereas an MMO is a completely different animal. You have a small window these days to get the train rolling and if you squander that it is near impossible to get it back on the tracks again.

People move on fast in MMOs if the game doesn't have that "IT" factor they all crave since first booting up UO, DAOC or EQ1.  There is the WoW pie and the rest of the pie in the MMO universe. Each year we see at least a half-dozen MMOs come out and each year they squander the small window they have to captivate the MMO playerbase looking for something other than WoW.

Anet seriously screwed the pooch on the PVP side of things.  It feels like an MMO on training wheels to me, with some game modes that require you to either A,)Grind or buy from the store or B.) You get bored of something you once thought was fun for the first few weeks, but find it hard to even go into that game mode much anymore (Spvp and WvW)  Fotm will be the newest game mode with that issue.  The replayability in this game is terrible. Yea, when we first play we think "Wow this is fun"...1-2 weeks later "Wow, this is actually boring and lacks originality or variety.  The best word I can think of to describe GW2 is "Sterile"

JMHO ofc.

Edited by Leshil, 30 November 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[obsie]

Gilles VI, on 30 November 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

When talking about e-sports we're talking about sPvP/tPvP, not WvW..
And tell me about the difference in LoL e-sport?
One good worked out game-mode trumps any amount of boring matches (TDM,...)

This can be summarized quite easily:
1. Match sequences are lacking
2. There are no objectives
3. Deaths don't mean anything

The summation of these 3 major points equate to a stale and boring sport. Players pile on points, cap and die or leave. Respawn in 15 seconds. Or toss a bunk and afk while points are added. There are no beginning, mid or late game sequences (excluding temple). It plays very much like TDM and there's a reason why those games don't attract the same attention or viewer base as RTS/MOBAs. The most important factor is lack of consequence in actions. Opportunity costs are slight or non-existent.

[Roland Der Meister]

The only good thing that will come from ESL is that if they realize GW2 cant be a Esport In its Current form it mite make the devs wake up and get some features rolled out for it But i am praying  GW2 dose make it even with its short comings.

[Korlic]

Well, cant watch live due to technical problems on Guru's side. Not worth watching on youtube, Ill just wait for the summary I guess.

[Happiness Factory]

styken, on 30 November 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

any class can be played on tournaments? hmmmm.....rangers will be happy  to read your post.

Yeah any class can be played in tournaments I have over 1000 games on ranger alone, myself, vyndetta and Dayz play ranger in paids as well. They class does need some attention ill agree but, overall the ranger issues have little impact on the overall balance.

Also guys we're talking introductory e-sports stuff similar to Go4LoL and things, not major million dollar competitions that you might be thinking of. An example of a game that doesn't get hardly any attention to competitive balancing is team fortress. Honestly in 6v6 you will hardly ever see spies, snipers, heavies etc because a standard 6v6 team consists of 1xMedic 1x Demo 2x Soldier 2x Scout and it hardly varies. And teamfortress STILL has a competitive scene.

Just because the game isnt perfect doesnt mean we should discourage people from making an effort to make some fun competition, honestly guys.

[styken]

Happiness Factory, on 30 November 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

Yeah any class can be played in tournaments I have over 1000 games on ranger alone, myself, vyndetta and Dayz play ranger in paids as well. They class does need some attention ill agree but, overall the ranger issues have little impact on the overall balance.

Also guys we're talking introductory e-sports stuff similar to Go4LoL and things, not major million dollar competitions that you might be thinking of. An example of a game that doesn't get hardly any attention to competitive balancing is team fortress. Honestly in 6v6 you will hardly ever see spies, snipers, heavies etc because a standard 6v6 team consists of 1xMedic 1x Demo 2x Soldier 2x Scout and it hardly varies. And teamfortress STILL has a competitive scene.

Just because the game isnt perfect doesnt mean we should discourage people from making an effort to make some fun competition, honestly guys.

that game have insane quantity of bugs, because GW2 are full of class skill/traits bugs not to mentioned the loading bug that kill completly tournaments.  for me is just ridiculous try balancing class around major bugs, will be much easy correct bugs first and than balance game....the way they are doing it is just stupid.

not only stupid but they took so much time to correct anything, think now anyone can see sPvP isnt so important for arenanet

Edited by styken, 01 December 2012 - 11:20 AM.