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why don't mesmers use air runes?

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#1 Flooth

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:26 AM

they rock on my shatter build! discuss

#2 osicat

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:26 AM

In fact alot of shatter mesmers accualy DO use air runes. This even after the minor nerf the dmg of rune nr6 receved in last patch. It is idd a strong rune both mobility based, defensive vs glasscannon and offensive for nuke.

Air rune is one of the core features of the gear in my guide listed on official and here with 17+k wievs so far in total. Feel free to have a look:


Guide

Official forum:
https://forum-en.gui...WvW-Shatter-cat

Guru forum:
http://www.guildwars...vw-shatter-cat/

Lates video:


/Osicat

Edited by osicat, 30 November 2012 - 07:27 AM.


#3 F O S T E R

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:29 AM

First It has to be said if it's WvW or PvP. In sPvP I don't use Air Runes but Centaur Runes + Mirror Heal. Swiftness is very important in sPvP, with mirror heal you gain swiftnes for 12 sec. every 15 sec. So you are pretty fast.
5% lighting strike means that every 20th hit you give lighting strike. If I hit 20 hits, I'm sure death - my opinion.

#4 Khamul

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:46 AM

it's 20% proc rate !

#5 Nevhie Bodewig

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:20 PM

I use Rune of Centa. Coz i;m a Commander. Need that to ensure my allies have Swiftness buff so they won't fall easily... But... The +15% Bleed dura.. Sure is a waste on Mesmer :(

#6 osicat

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:19 PM

View PostF O S T E R, on 30 November 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

5% lighting strike means that every 20th hit you give lighting strike. If I hit 20 hits, I'm sure death - my opinion.

Mate its 20% chance to gain Lightning Strike when hit. (Cooldown: 10s), It also proc on retaliation and most enemy acction, emaning in a fight it usualy proc 1-3 second in if you jump somone of he jump you. I had after patch crits around 6k on glascannon thiefs and a fast mindwrack/mirror end them extrelmy fast. The 10% crit dmg is also a strong tool

Note how rune of air hit almost instant in 1st fight and support the burst after in 1st fight, if you keep se the vids you not it land constant about when cd is off:



Also a little rune of air highlight:

http://i286.photobuc...c/Thiefdead.jpg

/osicat

#7 KorJK

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:39 PM

Question for Osicat.
I personally like to use GS for 2H weapon.  GS does come with berserker which does cripple with decent dmg.  Is it still viable to use GS with Sword/Pistol with the build you showed?

Edited by KorJK, 30 November 2012 - 05:46 PM.


#8 osicat

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:02 PM

@KorJK

Hello :)

In dmg part for sword and pistol it would work out and GS might add some ranged dmg but defensive you will feel you lack quite a bit and in mobility. This as staff nr 2 combined with chaos armour and field is some of the strongest defensive abilitys a mesmer have. I DO have a GS but I bring it out when im on a wall or when I do a instance. This builds defense is based around acctive survival and only partly passive. With some traning you with staff nr 2 have dubble blinks when you chase somone or running form a gank. In mid fight staff is outsanding vs several opponent and mabye the only tool we have that effective shut down thiefs.

I dont say Gs - s/p is unviable, im not to tell ppl how to play the game, what I do say thu is in my personal opinion staff is a better choice and will not only keep you better alive but when you learn to use it be a more flexible tool in most situations.

Gl on your batteling mate :)

/Osicat

PS some shatter mesmers use a 20/20/0/0/30 Shatter with Greatsword + sword/pistol, personaly I think its lacking in defensive and mobility and that 10-3+-0-0-30 is more flexible but again a personal oppinion. Everything is not only dmg.

Edited by osicat, 30 November 2012 - 06:08 PM.


#9 Swoopeh

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:13 PM

Why not use a Sigil of Air in your weapon and use other runes for more power or flexibility?

#10 Sinnacle

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:24 PM

View PostSwoopeh, on 30 November 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Why not use a Sigil of Air in your weapon and use other runes for more power or flexibility?

From the reading I did on testing Sigil of Air is good for single target DPS.  The animation doesnt seem as pronounced as in the video from Osi.   I have used the Sigil of air and Fire I am currently testing Air again.  Fire seems to be the go to between the too for most people. Air does 15% more damage but isn't aoe so most people feel that its better to take the aoe from fire over air.

#11 Swoopeh

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:59 PM

View PostSinnacle, on 30 November 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:



From the reading I did on testing Sigil of Air is good for single target DPS.  The animation doesnt seem as pronounced as in the video from Osi.   I have used the Sigil of air and Fire I am currently testing Air again.  Fire seems to be the go to between the too for most people. Air does 15% more damage but isn't aoe so most people feel that its better to take the aoe from fire over air.

Ah so the main reason would be so you can get the Air proc from runes and the Fire proc from the sigil and have those work at the same time? Or is there any discernable difference between Lightning Strike from the runes and the (superior) sigil? Wiki seems to indicate they're the same but the sigil has different ranks whereas the rune is just the single bonus so there is some scaling applied to the sigil.

#12 osicat

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:39 PM

Shot as im at a party atm but just to clear things., Rune of air hits in a good dps spec in wvwvw for 3-6,5k, sigil hits at best for 2k. Sigil of fire is alot better than sigil of ligtning as if you by mistake dmg a npc or a pet you still do dmg to mian target. Dont want to attack a mesmer with blade flurry and proc u sigil dmg on a clone.

Make sure to make difference bethween sigil procs and rune procs.

/Blessing Osicat.

#13 Jourdan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:27 AM

Do both sigil of air and fire share a cooldown with rune of air?

#14 osicat

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:16 AM

No sigils and rune dont share cd. So in a perfect burst on a player you hit with 4 Mind wracks, 3 cry of frustration 1 phantasm duelist barrage 1 sword 2 attack and get a proc of sigil of fire, if enemy have retaliation up you also hit with a lightning strike. Gain 8 stacks of might apply bleed and 10-13 stacks of confusion depending on how you use utilitys ( can cry with 3 clones if you use decoy) Had 25k+ bursts with this in wvwvw

/osicat

#15 Flooth

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:51 PM

this is for spvp

#16 osicat

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:40 PM

@ Flooth, PvP is PvP if its in wvwvw stats is a bit different but burst is done same way. Top of some of every spell macanic stay the same. Also its no were said this thread is stricktly a s/tpvp thread its a discussion about rune of airs viability. Now I do talk from a wvwvw perspective as this is my area and what I know best, why my guide is said to be a wvwvw focused guide aswell.

/Osicat

#17 Dairuiner

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:58 PM

View Postosicat, on 01 December 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

@ Flooth, PvP is PvP if its in wvwvw stats is a bit different but burst is done same way.

Not really... as soon as this discussion started including Centaur runes it was clear it had gone off the sPVP track.

#18 Kyris

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:35 PM

View PostNevhie Bodewig, on 30 November 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

I use Rune of Centa. Coz i;m a Commander. Need that to ensure my allies have Swiftness buff so they won't fall easily... But... The +15% Bleed dura.. Sure is a waste on Mesmer :(
Are you joking? I have 2x +15% bleed dura and 1x 10% condition dura on my mesmer

I use staff (staff #1 inflicts bleeding occasionally), Sharper Images trait (illusions cause bleeding when they crit) and I use precision/toughness/condition damage gear, which gives me 1600 condition damage, 50% crit & 1900~ toughness. i also use the food that gives +40% condition dura (when i wvwvw)

like 90% of my damage comes from bleeds :< and with the +bleed duration effects, it's pretty easy to maintain 10-15 stacks of bleed on someone, since each stack of bleed hits for 125~ damage every second for 12 seconds... thats about 1250 damage PER SECOND :D

Edited by Kyris, 02 December 2012 - 03:37 PM.


#19 F O S T E R

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:15 PM

View Postosicat, on 30 November 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

Mate its 20% chance to gain Lightning Strike when hit. (Cooldown: 10s).
Yes, you're right. Error is here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Runes

#20 Nevhie Bodewig

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:37 PM

View PostKyris, on 02 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Are you joking? I have 2x +15% bleed dura and 1x 10% condition dura on my mesmer

I use staff (staff #1 inflicts bleeding occasionally), Sharper Images trait (illusions cause bleeding when they crit) and I use precision/toughness/condition damage gear, which gives me 1600 condition damage, 50% crit & 1900~ toughness. i also use the food that gives +40% condition dura (when i wvwvw)


Oh yes sorry about that. Coz i;m not using Staff. At 1st i just hope Sharper Image's Bleed duration can be extended with Rune/ Condi dura. But even with centa rune still 5sec. Guess its fixed duration. Guess Staff Mesmer can bleed. Hehehe sorry didn;t know that

#21 moodswingwhiskey

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:04 AM

Wow these air runes are great. I switched to these from a centaur set and couldn't be more happy. You still get swiftness on heal plus a ton of extra crit damage. Also, the Lightning Strike when hit saved me twice in WvW. Once against a backstabbing thief and again when it helped me rally from a downed state.  Very cool!

#22 SpelignErrir

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:10 PM

Wait, do the air runes trigger when people attack your illusions?

#23 heatrr

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:52 PM

View PostSpelignErrir, on 21 December 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

Wait, do the air runes trigger when people attack your illusions?

Nothing.

#24 dynia666

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:57 PM

im only weird memser who use rune of svanir ?

#25 F O S T E R

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:15 AM

I did som calculation of dps of centaur,divinity and air runes. Look at spreadsheet: https://docs.google....UNwTURsLXFGTlE
According to this divinity has only 3% increase damge vs. centaur. But centaur has with mirror heal best mobility.
The situation is a little bit complicated with air runes. I did som tests in mists with npc(thief, ranger, guard, warrior). According to this test dmg of shatter mesmer is 800-900, if crits 1500-1600 (yep osicat, this is spvp, where all have the same gear) :). I will post some screens in the evening. I've tested it that I only stood at npc and waiting to die. Only 2 times from 20, lightning strike procs 2 times till I was dead. 18 times lightning strike procs only 1 time. So it's very hard to say how lightning strike increase dps. In spreadsheet are 4 examples, from 0% to 15%. My opinion is that lightning strike increase dmg max. 5%.
Some commnets to calculation:
attack, crit., crit dmg. are from shatter mesmer (20/20/0/0/30)
base crit dmg is 150%
calculation is for 100 attacks, one column is non crit attacks, other is crit attacks.
difference is compared to centaur runes

So for me as sPvP player are centaur runes best option.

Edited by F O S T E R, 08 January 2013 - 07:29 PM.


#26 dynia666

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:56 PM

View PostF O S T E R, on 08 January 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

I did som calculation of dps of centaur,divinity and air runes. Look at spreadsheet: https://docs.google....UNwTURsLXFGTlE.
According to this divinity has only 3% increase damge vs. centaur. But centaur has with mirror heal best mobility.
The situation is a little bit complicated with air runes. I did som tests in mists with npc(thief, ranger, guard, warrior). According to this test dmg of shatter mesmer is 800-900, if crits 1500-1600 (yep osicat, this is spvp, where all have the same gear :). I will post some screens in the evening. I've tested it that I only stood at npc and waiting to die. Only 2 times from 20, lightning strike procs 2 times till I was dead. 18 times lightning strike procs only 1 time. So it's very hard to say how lightning strike increase dps. In spreadsheet are 4 examples, from 0% to 15%. My opinion is that lightning strike increase dmg max. 5%.
Some commnets to calculation:
attack, crit., crit dmg. are from shatter mesmer (20/20/0/0/30)
base crit dmg is 150%
calculation is for 100 attacks, one column is non crit attacks, other is crit attacks.
difference is compared to centaur runes

So for me as sPvP player are centaur runes best option.

who said to you all mesmers are dps one who use only dmg type to deal dmg ? not every one use zerk set and shaters

#27 Mayra Venia

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 05:09 PM

I do! Mainly in WvW/sPvP.

View PostF O S T E R, on 08 January 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

I did som calculation of dps of centaur,divinity and air runes. Look at spreadsheet: https://docs.google....UNwTURsLXFGTlE.

Invalid link.

Edited by Mayra Venia, 08 January 2013 - 05:10 PM.


#28 Ansau

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostMayra Venia, on 08 January 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

I do! Mainly in WvW/sPvP.



Invalid link.

Eliminate the final dot.

#29 F O S T E R

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:28 PM

View Postdynia666, on 08 January 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

who said to you all mesmers are dps one who use only dmg type to deal dmg ? not every one use zerk set and shaters

Hi dynia. You're right. But my post was not about "best" runes for every mesmer. It's about dps, so it means runes for dps mesmers.
Of course it's impossible to express personal preferences of mesmers by dps numbers.

Link fixed.(can't fix quoted links).

#30 Skyro

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

The advantage of air over others is that the 6pc proc damage is front-loaded which is highly beneficial for burst classes such as a shatter mesmer. Since most of the time you are guarding backpoint in tpvp as a mesmer the swiftness proc is very nice for getting around b/w mid and backpoint. Big fan of air runes for shatter mesmers in tpvp.




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