383 replies to this topic

[Grumpdogg]

Numbers are going to be pretty dodgy from now until after new year's for everyone.

[FriendlyFire]

If Anet added even 80% of the rewards that can be achieved in PvE to WvW, JQ would have queues almost all day long.  Anet could take action before Feburary, our Server would appreciate it.

[Vanu4life]

Capturing and holding a Keep should reward a lvl 80 Gold Chest every 15 min.

[Stovokor X]

Ouch February for WvW update.... Hopefully resuscitates interest at that time.

Zomious, on 02 December 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

Is there another site for match-up scores? Millennium.org is receiving updates less frequently since last week.

Latest scores http://www.stormbluf...-jq-scores-pics 30 mins ago. I moved some of our internal screenshots to public section.

Should be able to fill gaps when Millennium does not have it.

[Cirus]

Earendil, on 02 December 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

There is a lower population on WvW in SBI then it was a few weeks ago. That's a fact - probably the game has lost interest for many. Some of the bandwagonners left (not all unfortunately).

Only stay in LA overflow for about -3-4 minutes now. Often there is no overflow even.

I guess JQ has the same situation. SoS people must feel more involved and rewarded and keep coming. For now at least. It is a challenge to find a reason to go in there how. I hoped it was just because of the fractals. I hoped it was just a temporary lower morale level. Seems I was wrong.

Sure, we have our pushes - our "on" times. Shorter every week.

It's not an excuse. Why would anyone need excuses ? Are we supposed to always win ? Losses happen and people recover from them. Grats to the winners.

But WvW has no novelty left. Same old same old. People log mostly to play with their friends and guildies.... for the social value.

The same thing is happening on SoS sadly. I think it's happening to all of WvW. If it's happening in tier 1 and tier 2, I'd hate to imagine what it's like in the lower tiers.

These past 2 weeks have had the lowest numbers on SoS that I've ever seen. We've never had the numbers during Euro times so being out manned there is normal. But when we can't even fill more than 2 borderlands in our own prime times and get out manned it's very worrying. I really hope Arenanet pay attention to this issue sooner rather than later. Once these players are lost to the game, it's very hard to get them back.

I've also noticed that the variation in match ups has become stagnant. The same servers are playing each other over and over, it can become really stale. (it's impossible for some servers to move up despite winning, it's impossible for other servers to move down despite losing) SoS's rise to the top has been filled with adventure as we've had the opportunity to play against 10 different servers with all different tactics and styles (kind of like sampling flavours) along the way.

I still want to fight, I still want to WvW and I still want to win, but I'm not sure if all the people who are no longer entering the Borderlands feel the same. Thankfully we're still having epic battles, I'm just worried that it won't last forever.

[Tarkus]

[George21]

yeah it's getting pretty ridiculous...WvW needs more flavor added to it, I already had numerous friends quit the game because they saw WvW going no where at all, and because of the ascended gear only being obtainable by PvE means....I wish they would do something about it already.

[elithrar]

George21, on 02 December 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

yeah it's getting pretty ridiculous...WvW needs more flavor added to it, I already had numerous friends quit the game because they saw WvW going no where at all, and because of the ascended gear only being obtainable by PvE means....I wish they would do something about it already.

All three of the Ascended pieces so far you mean. I doubt the rest of the tier will be PvE only, given the backlash. Still early days yet.

WvW is about the fights—those who chase rewards beyond that will never be satisfied.

[Plasticblanket]

Elder Scrolls Online will have WvW as well, maybe they will do it right?

WvW had huge potential, but has been wasted sadly.

WvW armor is just insanely expensive with the badges and not even up to date with the current gear mill.

[Earendil]

There is more to rewards than items. Killing Jormag was fun, despite the rewards..... for the first 10 times. A lot less after. Same with the fractals.

There is intrinsic reinforcement in WvW for fighting, winning, using/seeing new stuff. That type of reinforcement is slowly weakening when you have to do the same thing over and over. Winning/fighting in tier 1 is highly gratifying and reinforcing. The first time more than the third one  - you will see.

More often than not, one of the most powerful reward is recognition. Stuff like they used to do in GW1, with GvG tournament winners (there were no uber Item rewards as I remember) or with the GvG TV - best reward system ever, when you knew people were watching you.

The ascended items and PvE bonuses (and the lack of WvW improvement besides orb removal)  hurt the WvW population at this level - they felt ignored, neglected, even rejected. It's not the items themselves, it's their signification.

Right now on SBI, the best reward system we have is recognition by our guildies and by people on the map - We mostly know each other and congratulate ourselves whenever we do something good. We just had a Video competition. Whenever one of the known guilds/commanders turns on a map he is greeted with joy from the rest - that's the most efficient (and unplanned) reward system possible. People keep logging and WvWing for this feeling of being with a group of friend and fighting for a common goal  - but the score and the match victory have lost a lot of their rewarding power.

I'm not really complaining - Anet did what they thought was needed in their business model. We still had several months of highly fun content, PvE and WvW, in a free-to-play game with almost no grind/no grief. When they will add new WvW content in february, I'm sure there will be a boost of interest in this game again - kinda what happened in GW1.

Edited by Earendil, 02 December 2012 - 02:32 PM.

[Pusha]

Plasticblanket, on 02 December 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

Elder Scrolls Online will have WvW as well, maybe they will do it right?

WvW had huge potential, but has been wasted sadly.

WvW armor is just insanely expensive with the badges and not even up to date with the current gear mill.

Don't forget on December 12th Darkfall Unholy Wars comes out.  Skill based full open world sandbox PvP MMO.  Also, hardcore full loot pvp for people that actually like the risk/reward part of PvP.  If this Darkfall has a smooth launch (unlike the last one) it could hurt the WvW population even more.

[Plasticblanket]

Pusha, on 02 December 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

Don't forget on December 12th Darkfall Unholy Wars comes out.  Skill based full open world sandbox PvP MMO.  Also, hardcore full loot pvp for people that actually like the risk/reward part of PvP.  If this Darkfall has a smooth launch (unlike the last one) it could hurt the WvW population even more.

Is it pay to play?

[Dark]

Plasticblanket, on 02 December 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Is it pay to play?

It is. But i am so sure it will hurt our population.

[Beastgate]

Never understood how p2p MMOs other than WoW could survive. So far TOR caved in and went free2play, but I think Rift is still going strong.

[khalid_war]

The original Darkfall was pretty laughably bad. The UI was a total joke (so bad that autohotkey was essentially required to fix issues) and killing npc's revolved around bugging them into stuff and beating on them while they were stuck. But the pvp you say? You mean the system where if you wanted to have a chance you needed to bot all your skills up? Where the major pvp guilds had events dedicated to exploiting skills up?

Yeah, GW2 and wvw may suffer from other games, but Darkfall won't be the game that does it.

Edited by khalid_war, 02 December 2012 - 06:37 PM.

[Alaroxr]

If you're quitting WvW because you think it's "not going anywhere", then you never really liked it in the first place.

Half of the people complaining about WvW are basically asking for change for the sake of change. If you really like WvW, you're probably *playing it* and *enjoying it* (amazing concept, I know right?) instead of wasting time complaining you don't get changes without actually giving legitimate reasons.

I've seen 1 legitimate complaint so far, the fact that WvW doesn't give enough rewards. Other than that, it really is people complaining that there is no change for the sake of change.

[Pusha]

Plasticblanket, on 02 December 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Is it pay to play?

Yea, but people will definitely at least give it a try for a month to see how it is.

[Pusha]

khalid_war, on 02 December 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

The original Darkfall was pretty laughably bad. The UI was a total joke (so bad that autohotkey was essentially required to fix issues) and killing npc's revolved around bugging them into stuff and beating on them while they were stuck. But the pvp you say? You mean the system where if you wanted to have a chance you needed to bot all your skills up? Where the major pvp guilds had events dedicated to exploiting skills up?

Yeah, GW2 and wvw may suffer from other games, but Darkfall won't be the game that does it.

I know what you are saying, but it doesn't mean that AV (company that makes Darkfall) hasn't learned from their mistakes, and if they haven't it won't be popular just like their last game.

Alaroxr, on 02 December 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

If you're quitting WvW because you think it's "not going anywhere", then you never really liked it in the first place.

Half of the people complaining about WvW are basically asking for change for the sake of change. If you really like WvW, you're probably *playing it* and *enjoying it* (amazing concept, I know right?) instead of wasting time complaining you don't get changes without actually giving legitimate reasons.

I've seen 1 legitimate complaint so far, the fact that WvW doesn't give enough rewards. Other than that, it really is people complaining that there is no change for the sake of change.

There's more to it than that.  Some people like games that are more of a challenge (i.e. skill shots and full loot PvP).  Also, player loading is still a problem, there are no rewards like you said, there is not stat system which was implemented in DAoC, there are no consequences to dying or losing keeps or towers in the game.  The only thing that Anet has done for WvW since the betas is remove a feature from it.  And WvW population has already gone down, so I'm sure it will continue to dwindle over the next month or two, and the only thing that helps Anet is that it does not have a monthly fee, so if they do have a good update in February, it will cause players to come back if ESO doesn't have a beta yet.

[coronbale]

Pusha, on 02 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Yea, but people will definitely at least give it a try for a month to see how it is.

I think you overestimate peoples willingness to play a game with outdated graphics.  Yes, old timer gamers like me who got my start on games like Dragon Warrior 1-4 (just replayed them on an emulator, still effin epic) and started MMOs on games like Asheron's Call might be able to look past it, but 90% of MMOers joined the bandwagon AFTER World of Warcraft made the genre simple enough your grandmother could play.  Since then, better has also had most detailed graphics!  I like what they did with some of the game systems, but overall I think the impact will be milder than even the most overreaching fanboy thinks.

A note on people thinking WvW is in trouble.  As people who have showed up, tried it out for a few weeks, and immediatly started complaining about it start to finally make their way off the field, the ones that will be here for the long haul are left.  I have a guide to help people enjoy WvW in the correct light, I would love these people to provide input to make it better.  http://www.guildwars...o-enjoying-wvw/ Here is a fun fact, almost every person I have spoken to who thinks WvW is crap QQs about the damn score.  Heres a fun way to look at it:

Here is a scenerio for thought.  Make these following assumptions.

You are GM of a 120 man at a time in WvW guild, enough to fill a single WvW map completely. Lets call your guild [WWQQ]

[WWQQ] is the best guild in the game, they lost no encounters, they kill anyone 1:10 outnumbered, and they cap the entire map they are on always.

[WWQQ] fields these 120 players for 12 hours per day (f your job, f your wife, f your gfriend, WvW FTW)

Now, as crazy as these assumptions are, im betting they exceed your situation by quite a bit.  Now, lets play with the math.  [WWQQ] dominates 1 map for 12 hours per day.  With 4 maps, with 24 hours per day, [WWQQ] can control 12.5% of the match outcome.

1/4 maps is 25%, half the time is 25% / 2 = 12.5%.

[WWQQ] is probably in a better position than whatever person is complaining about the score to influence it for the win.  Even with their godly status, they only have 12.5% control over the status of the match.  Why get angry over the remaining 87.5%?  It is out of your control!

I agree with people when they try and build an alliance to control more than that, but honestly, if your an alliance commander, or someone who is running a campaign to control more than just your little 5 or 10 man guild in WvW, you understand this and are working to better it.  What about the 100s of randoms that come in here complaining about the score?  Your not a part of the win in any way shape or form.  [WWQQ] only had 12.5%, how much do you think [random pug]'s contribution was?

Its about shifting your focus away from something like that, and focus on the fights.  Get in a WvW guild, face off against enemy commanders, and take it battle by battle.  flanks, routes, portal counters, stealth sieges, 2v1s, 1v2s, calling ggs for the winner, calling ggs for the loser, THIS is what WvW is all about.  If your playing for any other reason, you are in for a short ride.

That path leads to the dark side...  Not SWTOR...  Well, i dunno, maybe.

Edited by coronbale, 02 December 2012 - 07:42 PM.

[Pusha]

coronbale, on 02 December 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

I think you overestimate peoples willingness to play a game with outdated graphics.

Idk if you have seen the recent videos, but their graphics are no longer out dated; however, their animations on their melee attacks are still pretty lame.

[Beastgate]

Alaroxr, on 02 December 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

If you're quitting WvW because you think it's "not going anywhere", then you never really liked it in the first place.

Half of the people complaining about WvW are basically asking for change for the sake of change. If you really like WvW, you're probably *playing it* and *enjoying it* (amazing concept, I know right?) instead of wasting time complaining you don't get changes without actually giving legitimate reasons.

I've seen 1 legitimate complaint so far, the fact that WvW doesn't give enough rewards. Other than that, it really is people complaining that there is no change for the sake of change.

It's perfectly natural to like something then simply stop playing it because it got boring. This not only applies to WvW, but the game in general.

[Bina]

Realm Ranks like Daoc had, very small awards for playing a long time.

Guild ranking system and Player Ranks are another two things that would help.

Combine the NA and Euro severs into one ladder then remove about of third of the servers once this is done.

Edited by Bina, 02 December 2012 - 08:06 PM.

[Sirandar]

Asheron's Call was my first MMO as well.  Absolutely loved it and probably would still be playing if it were more pleasing to the eyeballs.  I'll take game play over graphics just about every time but I do draw the line somewhere.  

But regarding WvW, agree the way to really enjoy this game is take it one fight at a time.  Just a recent example was Friday night we spent quite a bit of time guarding Foghaven.  Might sound boring on paper but it was a constant battle and each fight provided a different challenge in defending.  Credit goes out to a guild named [FIRE] (I think?) who continued to provide the pressure and eventually they won out.  But the point being, not once did anyone worry about the score during these battles.  

WvW will evolve and improvements will come.  If Anet was truly inspired by Daoc they should have some cool features in store that will keep us all interested for a while.

So, let's all take it one scuffle at a time and enjoy the ride.  It will only get better.

[Ballads]

coronbale, on 02 December 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

blah

OK coron, Tsym is very good guild and a very hard opponent to face. I dont think any/many would take that away from you guys, But when you xferd servers to overcome the exact problem you are telling people to not worry about it makes no sense. Actions speak louder then words and your actions say - "do worry about score and do abandon the server for one that makes your 12.5% matter more." Nothing wrong with doing that. Many of us here have left lame servers for greener pastures. The rest of us just are not in denial of what we did or why we did it.
When i see you posting this "dont play for the score" bullshit i dont get if you are just unable to smell the shit at your feet or your just trolling the rest of us.

[derek1240]

Ballads, on 02 December 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

OK coron, Tsym is very good guild and a very hard opponent to face. I dont think any/many would take that away from you guys, But when you xferd servers to overcome the exact problem you are telling people to not worry about it makes no sense. Actions speak louder then words and your actions say - "do worry about score and do abandon the server for one that makes your 12.5% matter more." Nothing wrong with doing that. Many of us here have left lame servers for greener pastures. The rest of us just are not in denial of what we did or why we did it.
When i see you posting this "dont play for the score" bullshit i dont get if you are just unable to smell the shit at your feet or your just trolling the rest of us.

Maybe they wanted a fresh start. There is no need to be upset.

[Beastgate]

derek1240, on 02 December 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

Maybe they wanted a fresh start. There is no need to be upset.

A fresh start on a server with PRX. Seems legit.
Don't kid yourself. People transfer servers to win.

Edited by Beastgate, 02 December 2012 - 09:56 PM.

[coronbale]

Ballads, on 02 December 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

OK coron, Tsym is very good guild and a very hard opponent to face. I dont think any/many would take that away from you guys, But when you xferd servers to overcome the exact problem you are telling people to not worry about it makes no sense. Actions speak louder then words and your actions say - "do worry about score and do abandon the server for one that makes your 12.5% matter more." Nothing wrong with doing that. Many of us here have left lame servers for greener pastures. The rest of us just are not in denial of what we did or why we did it.
When i see you posting this "dont play for the score" bullshit i dont get if you are just unable to smell the shit at your feet or your just trolling the rest of us.

A valid point, and one that, taken from someone who was hurt by this move it can be painted in that light.  Coming from soneone who obviously has no idea our reasons, Ill give you a brief explanation on my view of transferrs, to which youll immediatly call bs, call me a dbag, say we suck, and were everything wrong with America.

Transferring is a tool in a guilds arsenal to prolong fun for its players.  If your fun is derived from winning matches, and only winning matches, your going to need to move to an HoD type server to always win.  Without that, you are going to be angry a lot of the time.

However, if your guild's fun is derived from the competition it gets from fighting good teams, and your server is down on the list, AND your guild has a good amount of skills at its disposal, you are in trouble.  Every night, my previous server would lose all points and subsequently the match because we had zero overnight coverage.  We would then log on during the day, and roflstomp the hell out of everything, spending most of it PVDooring.  This is trouble.  This can cause burnout because you are in a guild that loves the fights, loves the competition, and loves the move counter-move involved in WvW.

The transfer (from a rank 10 to a rank 12 server btw) allowed our team to build a team from the ground up, start alliances, and work on building the meta game beyond just our little corner of WvW.  The result of this, is NOT an amazing score, but amazing competition!

The reverse is true, if you are in T1 and are getting stomped every time you approach a node or meet an army, you should think about moving down the tiers.  Being overmatched AND being undermatched are both dangerous things, and can cause heavy burnout.

DO NOT CONFUSE NOT PLAYING FOR THE SCORE WITH NOT PLAYING TO WIN.  They are VERY diffrent things.  My guide was to show that deriving your enjoyment from the score is folly, but to not play to win is dumb.  Play to win, play for keeps, play with no mercy for your enemy, but dont let the score be your reason for playing.  Why let a good fight or a good countermove to a solid commander have a asterisk saying "good move, but we still suck cause we are behind in points".

Let your counterflame begin, and best of luck in your future endevors.  We again, apologize to the members of that server that were effected by our selfish act.  We chose the enjoyment of our WvW experience by pushing for better competition over the needs of our server at the time.  Many of you thought we should have rode the plane down in flames and competed at rank 15 or whatever it ended up resting at.  We chose to transfer, that effected you, and we apologize.

Edited by coronbale, 02 December 2012 - 10:08 PM.

[Kleenex]

Beastgate, on 02 December 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

A fresh start on a server with PRX. Seems legit.
Don't kid yourself. People transfer servers to win.

I lol when you post this it funny... But who cares what Tysm do, as long as they are there to provide good fights then it noone else concern to where they go.

Just do what WM say "Wipe them!"

[Vanu4life]

Don't worry guys, just 82 more days for the big WvW update.

[PunNyJR]

SBI guys should stop qqing imao lol u guys were talking extremely big a few weeks ago before Sos got in T1. now u qq , make every excuse u can make becoz u cant win them.