89 replies to this topic

[Carebear_Sss]

AetherMcLoud, on 01 December 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Yes but besides ele mesmer is the only other class to have a 100% first stomp protection (you can't be stomped in stealth AFAIK even if you teleport inside stomp range).

I will give you one time only tip.
Bind "Stow/Draw weapon" to ąny key.
Here what you do against mesmer if you think for a lil:
1. Start stomping
2. Use stow weapon (cancel casting)
3. Start stomp again

Around 90% mesmers will port when u are "mid stomping". He shows up and he is dead.
I use it and it works.
I'll start streaming some day again so you can see how i do that and other tips&tricks twitch.tv/sakulos2.

Edited by Xuphor, 01 December 2012 - 10:53 PM.
Don't tell others to "Learn 2 Play" or any other form of trolling.

[Craywulf]

Dsquaredcri, on 01 December 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

can someone type the entire stream plz, its pretty hard for me to understand jonathan talking

Hearing impaired player here, very curious what was said in this. Could anyone be kind enough to post a transcript?

[Khalija]

Craywulf, on 01 December 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

Hearing impaired player here, very curious what was said in this. Could anyone be kind enough to post a transcript?

Frozire is working on it, but it's really long so it's going to take some time. Maybe we can get it in chunks? *poke Frozire*

[Marelith]

Carebear_Sss, on 01 December 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Speak for yourself, you loose every paid tournament game so train and you will get better.

So where should new teams practice for the "pros" in paid tournament? Free tournament is a joke atleast. Also, if you are writing a big pretentious post about how ppl should "l2p" I recommend that you spell the first sentence correctly, it makes you look less stupid.

[Carebear_Sss]

Marelith, on 01 December 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

So where should new teams practice for the "pros" in paid tournament? Free tournament is a joke atleast. Also, if you are writing a big pretentious post about how ppl should "l2p" I recommend that you spell the first sentence correctly, it makes you look less stupid.

When only free tournaments was out there i preferred to lose against strong team rather than win against new teams.
Everybody is free to learn they class. Lose against good team and check what they used. You got builds listed on streams, you can check their tactics. Use it for a start, then invent your own stuff.

[Marelith]

I understand what you are trying to say and yes, I also felt that I learned alot more when I lost then when we stomped some randoms but the issue works both ways.

It's hard to improve when you crush your opponents but it is also hard to improve when you get roflstomped, in such instances it is very hard to isolate, point at the individual flaws and improve on them in your gameplay when you lose in every possible scenario. There is also several other issues, like having fun.

If you just get stomped over and over again then yes, you'll learn but is it fun? You can learn and grow as much (if not more) by facing more even teams and getting some wins. The feeling that your training pays off is a huge morale boost and makes the game so much more fun to play.

Another point that makes the "just play with ptournaments" less realistic is the fact that (when I played atleast) typically only 1 or 1½ tournament ran at any given time. If you are the new team that want to learn from the pros but gets stomped all the time you will get kicked after the first map and after that you are forced to wait until the entire tournament is over before you can go again (and then get kicked after first map..), thats not fun and it's just another thing that adds up, and I'm not even gonna talk about the amount of tickets needed for ptournaments...

Overall the current system is totally *blocking new players and new teams, making it extremely hard for ppl like that to play and grow. If you are in a well established team that has a fighting chance in ptournaments then I congratulate you but it's *ing easy to be smug and say "watch streams, learn tactics" when the entire system is more or less designed to shut out new players and teams. (On the subject of streams, right now Farming Simulator 2013 has more viewers then GW2 on Twitch...go figure)

Edited by Marelith, 01 December 2012 - 11:42 PM.

[Carebear_Sss]

Matchmaking is coming soon i think both for free and paids.
That will separate the players and that will create the fun.
I know that you are right but everyone is free to overcome difficulties. That's what i meant, no more no less.

EOT

[ensoriki]

Should be some UI changes to go with the ranking.

Edited by ensoriki, 01 December 2012 - 11:57 PM.

[xLOKIx0830]

Soryuju, on 01 December 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

The reason people describe the Ele downed state as uncounterable and not the Mesmer downed state is specifically because the Ele's downed state health resets when they come out of Vapor Form.  With the Mesmer or Thief, you can opt not to stomp and just use regular attacks to wear them down. That way, you make progress toward defeating them even if they manage to teleport, since they won't last long afterward, and you won't need to waste time/leave yourself vulnerable by going through the stomp animation, This doesn't work for the Ele because of the health reset- whether I try to use regular attacks or stomp, Vapor Form is going to waste my efforts.  I believe they mentioned removing the health reset from Vapor Form in the stream, which would fix the issue.  Ele downed state would remain strong, and possibly still the strongest due to the freedom of movement, but it would not be uncounterable.

Additionally, the ele's down state vapor form is instant, there is no cast time, where the mesmer's downed state does have a cast time. It only takes about a second, but if you have quickness, chances are you'll get it off if the mesmer was in the middle of an auto attack. For the ele, it doesn't matter if you have quickness or not, they'll always get off their vapor form. Taking away the health reset is a start, but I'd also give it a 1 second cast time, like all the other profession (aside from the thief, but I also think the thief should have a 1 second cast time for the teleport too).

[Condiments7]

Silvercat18, on 01 December 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

You be proud and you be thankful that there are still people playing the class and fighting *your* corner. You should be joining them or you wont have a class left to play by christmas. NB - They nerfed Tornado....

I should proud and thankful? Wowie, I guess I'll check my answer as ashamed then. I'm surprised anyone wants to still play the class after all the over-dramatic gnashing of teeth that goes on over in the elementalist forums. People would make you think the class was completely unplayable with the blast finisher nerf on evasive arcana. I understand it effected some people's play-styles in a dramatic way, but it was OP. Even with all the bugged and useless trait-lines and utilities we're still one of the most balanced(with a few OP things) and fun classes to play in the game at the moment.

The class won't be unplayable by christmas, just as it was always playable since I started playing it on August 25th with everyone else. I've been in enough MMO scenes to know the song and dance, where 90% of everything said on forums in hot air.

Edited by Condiments7, 02 December 2012 - 03:36 AM.

[DLeague]

so many desperate defensive ele's who try to twist the facts.

1) Every team in that stream runes an ele, so no there is no bias, infact every top team in NA also runs an ele too since java from PZ switched from warrior to learn ele. Xeph's team (Paradigm) arguably the best team in the world right now runs a DPS ele as do many other top teams, so trying to argue that only bunker ele's are strong is just garbage.

2) The reason they were saying ele has the ONLY uncountarable down state is because not only do they have stomp protection but they have Absolute DPS protection, Mist form negates ALL aoe and ALL condition damage which is just rediculous, OH and it HEALS half your hp??!?. The current meta since the hp change to corpses means that its better to just dps the corpse rather than stomp which is why every downstate is pathetically weak atm compared to ele's.

3) When e-stars ran 4 ele's and owned it up it WASN'T free tournaments it was PAID tournaments.

[blindude]

DLeague, on 02 December 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

so many desperate defensive ele's who try to twist the facts.

1) Every team in that stream runes an ele, so no there is no bias, infact every top team in NA also runs an ele too since java from PZ switched from warrior to learn ele. Xeph's team (Paradigm) arguably the best team in the world right now runs a DPS ele as do many other top teams, so trying to argue that only bunker ele's are strong is just garbage.

2) The reason they were saying ele has the ONLY uncountarable down state is because not only do they have stomp protection but they have Absolute DPS protection, Mist form negates ALL aoe and ALL condition damage which is just rediculous, OH and it HEALS half your hp??!?. The current meta since the hp change to corpses means that its better to just dps the corpse rather than stomp which is why every downstate is pathetically weak atm compared to ele's.

3) When e-stars ran 4 ele's and owned it up it WASN'T free tournaments it was PAID tournaments.

1)thats not a sign of being op or then you should also nerf guardians cause i rarely if ever have seen a team without them as well as necros lately(i would prefer they get nerfed to be honest )
2)true but its payback time for the months we spend with a nonexistant downed state  
3)id like to see those games.Do you know if i can find them to see what builds they used for each ele?
I know dps is viable but Phantaram is not running actually near glass cannon either.He runs valkyries (air,water,arcane traits)with low crit chance and his bulk of damage comes mostly from small moments of big hiting spells like phoenix,dt that crit during the fury duration from attunement swap..Its not that he can get anywhere near thiefs number anyway and he also tends to, quite often ,miss most of the hard hitters as well .
..but hey,at least its aoe..

Edited by blindude, 02 December 2012 - 04:47 AM.

[AetherMcLoud]

DLeague, on 02 December 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

1) Every team in that stream runes an ele, so no there is no bias, infact every top team in NA also runs an ele too since java from PZ switched from warrior to learn ele. Xeph's team (Paradigm) arguably the best team in the world right now runs a DPS ele as do many other top teams, so trying to argue that only bunker ele's are strong is just garbage.

Every team runs a mesmer too but I see no talk about them needing nerfs. Well of course they didn't talk about that because one of them played a mesmer, wouldn't want his OP class to get nerfed now would he.

All this talk about "best teams in the world" is just a load of bullshit.

[Condiments7]

blindude, on 02 December 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

3)id like to see those games.Do you know if i can find them to see what builds they used for each ele?
I know dps is viable but Phantaram is not running actually near glass cannon either.He runs valkyries (air,water,arcane traits)with low crit chance and his bulk of damage comes mostly from small moments of big hiting spells like phoenix,dt that crit during the fury duration from attunement swap..Its not that he can get anywhere near thiefs number anyway and he also tends to, quite often ,miss most of the hard hitters as well .
..but hey,at least its aoe..

I ran this for a while and its one of my favorite Ele builds. Its balanced stats/build makes you great for team fights and puts out great point/ressing pressure with its area nukes.

Check out some of his videos on his stream. His duo with their team engineer Teldo is absolutely deadly.
http://www.twitch.tv...ram/b/337361273

[Xuphor]

Keep it civil, guys. It's ok to offer PvP advice, but only if it's in an actually helpful manner. Do not say "Learn 2 play issues" or the like, and do not reply to an obviously trolling part of a post and nothing else. All that does is promote that kind of posts over and over.

Anymore trolling such as "Learn 2 play", or directly replying to trolling posts only to troll/mock/insult them back will result in infractions.

Edited by Xuphor, 02 December 2012 - 07:07 AM.

[Aodan]

AetherMcLoud, on 01 December 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

a) The problem is those so called pros in the video complained a lot about ele - yet not one of them plays one - and they even said "the best thing would be if anet only listens to them and noone else and does exactly what they want because they AND ONLY THEY know what's best for the game". And JohnSharp actually kinda agreeing with that.

b ) Thieves can trait for stealth to remove conditions. And thieves can stealth every 3-5 seconds. So there's that.

Cause apparently you know whats best for the game.

If you did, you would be competing against top tier teams and have more than 0 QP, AMIRITE?

[styken]

AetherMcLoud, on 01 December 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

About the whole "ele downed state is the only uncounterable downed state". That's a load of BS. Mesmer is just as uncounterable. They can avoid the first stomp 100%. Just like ele. And against thieves you need a teleport which isn't as common as stability.

But if ele downed state needs nerfing then mesmer needs just as much.

lol. mesmer downed state is good but cant compared wth elementalist downed state that is the best now.

mesmer just do a very small teleport that make it invisible (not invulnerable) , elementalist get a big teleport, invulnerability and recover health, nope you cant compared elementalist downed state to mesmers.

thieves  downed state: teleport so they can to avoid 1st finish, the second invisibility is pretty much useless against burst class since no one will try finish him just continue hit him until he die that will be quick. thieves burst on downed state can really do crazy damage

Edited by styken, 02 December 2012 - 11:52 AM.

[P4ndora]

styken, on 02 December 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

lol. mesmer downed state is good but cant compared wth elementalist downed state that is the best now.

mesmer just do a very small teleport that make it invisible (not invulnerable) , elementalist get a big teleport, invulnerability and recover health, nope you cant compared elementalist downed state to mesmers.

Agree, and I would add that while the clone can distract enemies, it can also confuse allies (happened a few times they ressed my clone instead of me and I died) + the teleport is mostly random, you can just hope that you'll tp to a good place and not into the middle of enemies (it goes mostly for WvW and not sPvP). And mesmers have a ~0.5 sec cast time on tp skill, while eles don't have any if I'm right.

[Kendil]

I must congratulate all participants for an amazing podcast. I'll definitely tune in for more, listening to you guys and playing casual pve was a great combination.

[Aetou]

If they make it so Ele Downed #2 doesn't effectively rally and then down you again (so resetting your health but not always to 50% and being quite a pain in PVE) but instead just keep your previous downed health AND downed counter I could definitely live with that trade off.

[Psikerlord]

Just wanted to say I liked the video and to thank all the participants. Very interesting and i feel more confident for GW2 pvp future having seen it. Looking foward to the next one and the Dec balance patch

[the butcher]

Great great interview/panel. Can't wait for the next episodes.

Might want to ask some players to get a better mic 'cus I didn't hear everyone as a good. And with all respect to the people on the show, the english of some was very hard to understand.

[Grouch]

We'll be changing the formatting of the show for the next episode, and I'll be selecting the guests personally to make sure everything is up to snuff. Need to get some NA representation!

Next episode will also be streamed and more presentable! (I'd expect to see new episodes monthly.)

Edited by Grouch, 03 December 2012 - 09:03 AM.

[Grouch]

Just to clear up the confusion, elementalist is the only profession able to prevent the first stomp attempt 100% of the time. Mesmer has been brought up multiple times in this thread as being another "uncounterable" first stomp prevention profession, but as another poster has explained previously, you can simply interrupt the stomp about halfway to 3/4 of the way through and recast. If the mesmer was timing the stomp they will teleport. However, since your animation just started over you continue casting the animation while they're invisible. They should reappear right as your animation finishes, stomping them on the first attempt.

I'll try to be more careful with my word choice in the future. I didn't mean to rile you guys up!

Edited by Grouch, 03 December 2012 - 09:02 AM.

[Carebear_Sss]

I hope you guys will keep the topic around e-sport/pvp/tpvp, 3W point of view would be interesting tho.

[Smileforever]

Grouch, on 03 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

Just to clear up the confusion, elementalist is the only profession able to prevent the first stomp attempt 100% of the time. Mesmer has been brought up multiple times in this thread as being another "uncounterable" first stomp prevention profession, but as another poster has explained previously, you can simply interrupt the stomp about halfway to 3/4 of the way through and recast. If the mesmer was timing the stomp they will teleport. However, since your animation just started over you continue casting the animation while they're invisible. They should reappear right as your animation finishes, stomping them on the first attempt.

I'll try to be more careful with my word choice in the future. I didn't mean to rile you guys up!

dont forget the "hope they teleport within your range".

ele downstate will prevent the first stom, but you can see where he goes and dont have to wait until he gets visible again. also he cant teleport up stupid ledges when he dies near a wall. all downstates have pros and cons, and one of them will always be the best one. The only thing that is unique with ele downstate is the health reset, which is more of a technical issue then a balance issue im pretty sure, since this behaviour is causing issues in pve for a long time. Also it erases your deathbreakdown. If they can change this, they should, but im pretty sure they have technical limitations preventing that.

[Hennet]

Getting a WvWvW point of view would be great. There are a lot of WvW focused guilds out there you could reach out to and get in touch with to express concerns with the current state of the game.

[metalsazz]

Hennet, on 03 December 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

Getting a WvWvW point of view would be great. There are a lot of WvW focused guilds out there you could reach out to and get in touch with to express concerns with the current state of the game.

Zerg downs a Eley, eley mist forms away, zerg follows eley, zerg stomps eley when mist form ends.
only real issue i could see is if you down an Ele near there gate while they are defending it, they have a free trip in side.

[Carebear_Sss]

Also if mesmer opens portal, you can use it in vapor form, which is cool thing.
That saved my ass few times.

[blue cheez]

I hate the PvP community in GW2.

All you do is complain about "insert profession that's not mine" is OP.
Whatever happened to GuildWars being a team game.

The reason why PvP is garbage is because everyone wants a shitty LoL-clone with 1v1s and no teamwork.
Profession classes are like changing the color of your armor. There are two roles in the game and that's "bunker" and "dps."
And until the community starts pushing for things that actually matter, like a gametype that isn't a degenerate dominion clone, or buffing cross-profession combos for actual team play and strategies.
People aren't playing PvP because "spectator mode isn't available" or because "the ladder system isn't out yet." People aren't playing sPvP because it's a shitty cluster* with minimal teamwork.