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How much does this resonate with you?

grind stats over skill illusion of variety repetition

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#1 DuskWolf

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:18 AM

Here's a review written by forbes.

I like to think of forbes as a reputable source. Much of what's written there is reasonable and it resonates with me as what I see to be problems with GW2. Whilst GW2 isn't a horrible game, the truth of things is is that it's no better of a game than WoW, and it's not that dissimilar either. What dissimilarity does arise from it is muchly an illusion.

That's the problem with GW2 for me. And what I'm finding is that with the inclusion of tiered gear, GW2 has moved just that final step toward being a WoW clone. A WoW also-ran. That's how I feel about it. But don't just reply to this. Read the article and see whether it resonates with you and helps to illustrate my feelings at all.

One of the important quotes was this one:

Erik Kain @ forbes.com said:

While described as “action combat” it nevertheless isn’t really reliant on any player skills so much as it is on damage-per-second and your level.
And that's completely true. The thing is is that with Ascended gear, GW2 is even more relying on stats over skill, to the point where the game is just playing itself. It's just numbers vs. numbers, and that's the biggest letdown at all. There are no shows of skill to be found anywhere in GW2 other than perhaps in sPvP. But everywhere else? None.

Compared to other games I've played, like ME3's multi-player, where things like skill, the ability of players to co-operate with each other, and tactics can be shown, and at higher difficulties are even required... I just find GW2 to be a flop in comparison. I was expecting something more like ME3, but the notion of skill involved is an illusion. Only numbers matter.

The reviewer goes on to point out that barrel rolling is too clunky to be useful due to the nature of the combat, which I agree with, too. Combat is too slow, and the barrel roll is just unhelpful. If characters simply moved faster, such long and elaborate rolls wouldn't be necessary. Again, to see how you do this right, you need only look at the speed of movement and dodging in ME3, which is organic and intuitive by comparison. In ME3 you can quickly dodge back out of range of foes as is needed.

It touches upon other things, too, including the similarity of both renown and dynamic events to the fetch quests of yore, and that the illusion of variety (simple reskins of skills/objects) quickly dies off, leaving only repetition. It's just the same skills over and over with slightly different animations and button pictures. And combat skills have the same problem, too. Too few combat skills which are all very similar, no true variety on offer. And I like his point about being able to acquire new weapon skills as time goes on too as a form of sidegrade-based horizontal progression, so you can mix & match what works for you, similar to GW1.

All in all I find that this review is quite intriguing and it really hits the mark on a number of things. Again, GW2 isn't a horrible game. This review says that, too. It's just that GW2 is basically WoW in far, far too many ways. And I don't want WoW, neither does the reviewer. We're both waiting for that MMO that will truly break the mold, rather than creating a grand illusion of doing so with PR speak.

So... does this review resonate with you?

#2 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:34 AM

Quote

But it isn’t an evolutionary step forward by any means, and I’m not convinced it goes nearly far enough to truly break new ground.

As I have said before, GW1 was the revolution GW2 should have been. Too bad nobody was paying attention.
GW2, on the other hand, is taking some of those concepts and watering them down in hopes of appealing to the WoW-crowd. And it's a shame because GW2 sometimes shows signs of brilliance - for instance "deposit all collectibles" or the ability to sell on the TP from anywhere in the world speak for a game that shits all over time and gold sinks and it's SO good in those moments.
GW2 is at its best when it's not an MMO.

#3 ~PolarisNova~

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:38 AM

GW2 is a good game, but obviously not what you wanted or expected it to be. You keep posting the things you don't like, do you think by doing this that GW2 will suddenly become the game you want?

Anyway, I do agree that initially I felt movement in combat was slow....but I've gotten used to the pace, and used to the dodge rolling. I disagree that it doesn't require player skill, of course it does otherwise people would never be downed or dead. It does require quick reactions, and no amount of armor stats will help with lack of skill.

I enjoy the game, and I rarely ever post on here, because I am mostly (besides being generally busy in my life) having fun playing the game.

#4 Shizu

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:50 AM

If skill is so completely absolutely 100% irrelevant, why does the same dungeon, with the same equipment tier (full exotic), take 20 minutes and zero repairs with my guild and 90 minutes + 10 silver repair fee with a pug?
Because most random players are *ing awful, that's why, despite having exactly the same numbers as my guild party.

Not going to bother with the rest of your copy/pasted ego-trip.



Also, basing a review on the first twelve levels is absolutely laughable. But hey, it's Forbes. They must be right.

Edited by Feathermoore, 04 December 2012 - 03:54 PM.
Say your points without insulting others


#5 Larsen

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:53 AM

My personal review of the game is a lot more negative. I'd say Forbes touches on some correct points, but they're holding back out of politeness. GW2 is much more than a WoW clone, it's also a horribly low-quality product, a discount game that tried to cut corners at every turn and gambled on the blind, uncritical loyalty of their fanbase and anyone tired of WoW. Once people saw the elephant in the room and shouted that the emperor was really naked, the illusion collapsed completely and that's that. Everything in GW2 reeks of low quality, from the content and fights (awful zones, awful mobs, awful dungeons, awful personal storyline) to the basic features (who launches a 2012 MMORPG with no /who command or inspect option?! These things were in freaking Everquest FFS). Even sPvP, supposedly the most important aspect of the game, is so laughably under-developed, and inexcusably lacking features from GW1, that it never got off the ground and is now completely dead.

#6 ScorpioSpork

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:02 AM

I'll agree with a few things in the review. The "cut scenes" are stale, and I wish dynamic events didn't repeat as quickly. It would be nice if the temples in Orr stayed open longer, or were defendable (I wish I could capture and defend a temple like I can capture and defend keeps in WvW).

But I completely disagree with this:

View PostDuskWolf, on 01 December 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

The reviewer goes on to point out that barrel rolling is too clunky to be useful due to the nature of the combat, which I agree with, too. Combat is too slow, and the barrel roll is just unhelpful. If characters simply moved faster, such long and elaborate rolls wouldn't be necessary. Again, to see how you do this right, you need only look at the speed of movement and dodging in ME3, which is organic and intuitive by comparison. In ME3 you can quickly dodge back out of range of foes as is needed.
After playing a Mesmer in WvW (I haven't done sPvP yet), I could not imagine combat actually being faster. Dodging is a key mechanic and can even be used offensively. If you want examples of quick, skilled combat, I can pull up several videos (and not all of them are Mesmer vidoes).

That said, dodging feels completely unnecessary in general PvE (unless you're fighting a champ, avoiding AoE or have "on dodge" effects). PvE is pretty casual and requires little skill (or even gear) outside of dungeons.

#7 Steadfast Gao Shun

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:04 AM

We appreciate how hard you try in demonstrating to us novel ways in which we should be disappointed with this game - especially considering that review was written as a "first impressions" sort of thing in August, and failing to take into account of other reviewers such as Carol Pinchefsky (also on the great and most reliable source Forbes), or how Mr. Kain ended going from skeptical to "appreciative"/"fan of Anet" as he pointed it out himself, two months down the road.

Please excuse me, I'm going to go play this awfully non-innovative game some more because I enjoy it due to my [insert whatever problem you think I have]. I hope you have a good night. :D

Edited by Steadfast Gao Shun, 01 December 2012 - 09:06 AM.


#8 Red_Falcon

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:18 PM

Reviews are just opinions like many, whether "forbes" wrote it or a complete stranger has no effect on me as I'm a free thought person and I look at contents.
There's hardly any "truth" or fact to be found in that post, just the opinion of the reviewer.
Now, if GW2 had some game-breaking, objective issues that don't allow you to play them you could hit on them - but it's mostly down to "I like this system / I don't like this system".
But as a matter of fact all things listed in the review are very, very subjective and the complete opposite can be argued effortlessly.

Now, GW2 isn't the ultimate MMO I dream of, but it's leagues closer to that concept than any other MMO out there which is enough for me.
To you, it may be the farest thing from what you would consider the perfect MMO, and I accept that.
If your opinion was taken as a standard for MMOs I would never see the day my perfect MMO is released, and vice versa - so be glad they're all opinions and matter of playstyle and taste.

If I wanted I could post a dozen of things of GW2 I would change - starting from larger WvW maps, changes to WvW system, district system re-implemented, cavalry, movable siege (carried by dolyaks), keeps improved by a large degree to make them much harder to take, tons more skills...
But would that serve any other purpose than outlining my opinion/rant?
I'd rather wait and see if Anet changes the game in that direction - or another company manages to create something that is closer to my concept.

What I'm sure of is that those review give a false idea of what needs to be done with a game.
Everything forbes argues to suck in GW2 is gold to many other people, and those people would be sorry to see the game changed because some asshole thought his opinion was worth more than an ice cream seller in south pole.

Just like those people were sad when Ascended gear was introduced because some people could not abandon the idea of gear grinding.

#9 Robsy128

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:52 PM

That didn't take long to be called a WoW-clone. I wish people would take off their rose tinted glasses, put on some real glasses that help them see and they'll realise 2 things:

1. Guild Wars 2 is not perfect. It still has a lot of things to work through.
2. Guild Wars 2 is not a WoW clone or any other clone for that matter. It's a solid stand-alone game in the MMO genre that does a few things differently.

Edited by Robsy128, 01 December 2012 - 12:53 PM.


#10 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:54 PM

View PostRobsy128, on 01 December 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

That didn't take long to be called a WoW-clone. I wish people would take off their rose tinted glasses, put on some real glasses that help them see and they'll realise 2 things:

1. Guild Wars 2 is not perfect. It still has a lot of things to work through.
2. Guild Wars 2 is not a WoW clone or any other clone for that matter. It's a solid stand-alone game in the MMO genre that does a few things differently.

The reason why some of us are calling GW2 a WoW-clone is because it feels closer to WoW than to GW1.

#11 PinCushion

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:55 PM

ANet's goal was to make an MMO that was so approachable and innovative that it would draw in non-MMO players.  While they have made a great product that I thoroughly enjoy, I don't think they've really succeeded in breaking into any new markets.  PvE is not involved enough to really draw in customers from other, more developed, PvE centric games (i.e. WoW).  sPvP and tPvP is not fleshed out enough to draw in people from established titles (i.e. LoL).  WvW is a success only because there's no other title really competing for this that can be taken seriously, but it's growing stale.

I disagree with most of the OP's linked review.  It doesn't really resonate with me at all.  However, I think ANet is missing the mark in a lot of markets.  I don't think it's too late, but it's getting there.

#12 Robsy128

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:40 PM

View PostProtoss, on 01 December 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

The reason why some of us are calling GW2 a WoW-clone is because it feels closer to WoW than to GW1.

Please, it's so far from WoW. It's actually closer to Aion than it is to WoW. And whoever said that GW2 was going to be like GW1? No-one. Not even Arenanet. It's a brand new game and more like a spiritual successor rather than a sequel. The only thing that transfers over is the lore. I guess you guys missed that with all of the videos, demos and blog posts telling us what would be in the game whilst it was being developed.

Edited by Robsy128, 01 December 2012 - 01:48 PM.


#13 sevalaricgirl

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:42 PM

I read the guru forum because it's entertaining, but you know what, people blather on about how terrible the game is.  If I thought a game was terrible, I wouldn't be playing it and neither would the people who are in game when I log on first thing in the morning, 5am.  We'd be somewhere else.  My problem is when people post stuff like this, impressionable people won't give a good game a chance.  They will believe this blather and honestly, GW2 is a good game.  It's fun, the dungeons are fun, the jumping puzzles are fun, for the entertainment value of about .09 cents an hour, it's a damned good game which is why I take the time to post in these "put down GW2" posts.  There is another side to the game.  I'm not a fanboi.  Frankly there is stuff I think needs fixing, but over all, it is a good game.  Freaking yes, gear does count or there wouldn't be progressive gear stats as you reach higher levels.  Who cares.  It give us something to work toward instead of being stagnate and I've never played WOW and have no intention to play WOW.  So is this a WOW clone, not at all.  Are there similarities, of course.  You know what the biggest difference is, I'm not paying bloody 15.00 a month to play it.  Don't like the game, go pay your 150+ dollars a year and the price of the game to play another one.  I think sub fees are pathetic in a day and age where there are really good games coming out with no sub fee.  GW2 isn't a perfect game but neither is WOW or any of the other ones out there.  Friggin pandas are for teenage girls.  If you don't like GW2, treat it as a girl/guy you dated, just walk away and don't turn back. Dinner and a movie, you're going to be paying 60.00.  Don't like it, walk away but stop trying to influence people into hating or abandoning the game because that's exactly what you and several other posters are doing.

Edited by sevalaricgirl, 03 December 2012 - 06:03 PM.


#14 ToySoldier

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:48 PM

The review did not resonate with me.  One thing I disagreed fully was:
"After all, even while I’m surrounded by hundreds of other players in Guild Wars 2, I don’t really feel a sense of community, camaraderie, or loyalty –"

I love the PvE side of GW2 as a casual explorer.  IMHO it is a healthy co-operation experience, and not co-dependency.

To me GW2 has the perfect set up in dynamic events for casual players to come together and have fun.   The best mmorpg, imho, should be designed so total strangers can share fun together without much effort.

I loved Harathi Hinderlands dynamic events where players cooperated in a natural spirit of camaraderie, and others.  Soloing is also a good pressure release for me after work while each night, I end up rezzing other players for my camaraderie fun.  Plus the times people rezzed me.  :lol:

It did not surprise me LOTRO adopted shared tagging very quickly.  I love the anyone can rez anyone mechanism in GW2.

Edit add: The way I read it, OP simply stated the review resonated for him, and he asked if it resonated with us.  He was seeking and open to alternate opinions.  Title for thread is a question, with a question mark.  No offense taken at all here, OP.

Edited by ToySoldier, 01 December 2012 - 01:57 PM.


#15 sty0pa

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:56 PM

Some people appear to spend more time dissing a game and writing about it, than playing anything.  Really, if I found myself writing again and again and again in a forum about game X, about how much I hate/am disappointed by game X...I'd start to look at my life and wonder if perhaps I shouldn't ought to move on.

Honestly, from my POV GW2 is only about 60% done - there are tons of things that are only a hint of what they could be (like town clothes, personal story, personal zone, guild mechanics, etc.).  I also think there are great sections of areas where they kind of punted on content.  I don't think the leveling experience from 50-80 is meaningful/memorable at all, not to mention the great variety of lowbie zones all being funnelled into the same areas after that point.  The whole new gear introduction thing was poorly thought-out, and their subsequent comments 'trying to explain' have made it a little worse.

IMO they DID water-down too many of their ideas to be 'more approachable' for WoW fans, and that's too bad.  I *sincerely*, secretly hope that eventually they let us multiclass like GW1 (it was one of the most startlingly innovative and clever features of GW, and is sorely missed) eventually.  That may be a forlorn hope, I know.

But it's certainly an enjoyable game, especially when you consider we paid ONCE for the game.  By this time in WoW, we'd already paid for a FULL SECOND GAME in 'rental' fees.  I look forward to watching it grow/develop over time.

Edit: I will say this, over my advancing alts, I'd forgotten and largely ignored the execrable dialogue/writing.  My god, it is so cheesy/bad it's painful.  Really, the story isn't too bad but I'd rate the delivery of the story as possibly some of the worst in MMOs.  A single quest line and then a bunch of chores doesn't equal 'epic story'.

Edit2: ha ha, I read his 'follow on' review and I'm utterly unsurprised that part of his unhappiness comes from his starting as a norn warrior.  I did too, in the BWEs and *hated* it.  Now that I've done toons of every race and a variety of classes, I'm convinced that the norn 'experience' is by FAR the worst.  You're just big humans, so you run apparently slowly.  Their 'nordic' culture is repeatedly  belied by the accentless voice acting.  Their story is ok, but their zones are DULL.  Their size - not immediately obvious as a noob - makes jump puzzles clumsy and quite hard, exacerbating the camera issues in small spaces.  Other races are far more interesting - sylvari, asura, and charr are alien enough to suspend disbelief on a lot of this stuff, humans are 'scaled right' for the world.  Norn just suck, sorry.  
Then being a warrior, melee is HARD.  (It was for me.)   Not that it's hard now, but coming from years of 'training' at mmos where you just stand there, getting the rhythm of GW combat is painful, punishing, and ultimately discouraging process until you 'get it'.  I didn't enjoy a warrior toon until after 3 bwes and several weeks of play as other, more forgiving classes.  A big light went on for me when he said he was first a norn warrior.

Edited by sty0pa, 01 December 2012 - 02:11 PM.


#16 Zippor

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:09 PM

It really doesn't resonate enough with me. There are some points I can agree with but mostly the combat for me is something among the best I've seen in MMO's. Player skill makes more than enough difference in a fight against other players, but not so much in the PvE department. The only place where some relative skill and situation awereness is required is higher level fractals or the most difficult dungeons, but even then, they aren't going to challenge you much if you're already used to challenge. It is true that parts of the game feel very WoW-like, but I have to say, they're very minor and WoW wasn't the first to come up with these things you seem to hate. I've already accustomed to them from tens of other MMO's so I don't feel offended, I feel like at home when I notice them. And hopefully you don't come throw around that operant conditioning fluff. I'm really used to repetition and I know what a grind is, I know it's mindless in some regards but it is also helpful in some ways (I'm looking at my instruments, I really need to grind with them in order to learn). But of course, grinding about in a game doesn't really yield any skills other than something minor (except in my favorite game genre, fighting games, where repetition is vital to a point) with the game itself.

Edited by Zippor, 01 December 2012 - 02:55 PM.


#17 Red_Falcon

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:22 PM

View Poststy0pa, on 01 December 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Some people appear to spend more time dissing a game and writing about it, than playing anything.

Exactly this.

I'm pretty tired of people playing a game a little, understanding it even less, and then proceed to make their "review" as if they knew everything about the game.
Sure, GW2 might seem a lot of things from the surface, from the perspective of a player who still didn't access the heart of the game.
But then again, then why making a review when you've yet to see the heart of the game?

It makes me rage when I see reviews like these, the author looks like a fat kid drooling and spitting.
HEARTZ R LIEK, KILL SHIT AND HELP PEPLE SO THEY R LIEK WOW LOLOLOL WOW EVERYWHERE WOW DIS WOW DAT.

A review loses all its credibility when mentioning WoW .
It's like mentioning McDonald EVERY time you talk about a new restaurant.

But this one went really below rock bottom when it said dodge seems useless, showing the creator has little skill and knowledge about GW2.

#18 Menehune

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:43 PM

Golly Gee! A wall of text without a single instance of the term cognitive dissonance.

And no, it does not resonate with me. Will resonate replace cognitive dissonance in your walls of text?

#19 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:56 PM

View PostRobsy128, on 01 December 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

Please, it's so far from WoW. It's actually closer to Aion than it is to WoW. And whoever said that GW2 was going to be like GW1? No-one. Not even Arenanet. It's a brand new game and more like a spiritual successor rather than a sequel. The only thing that transfers over is the lore. I guess you guys missed that with all of the videos, demos and blog posts telling us what would be in the game whilst it was being developed.

As a guy that doesn't play MMOs, I don't care about the details that separate WoW from AION because it's not the details that are the reason why I don't play either. As a guy that doesn't play MMOs, GW2 is too MMO-like, regardless of what the MMO-poison of choice is.
As for the connection between GW1 and GW2 - "GW2 is everything you loved about GW1".  Now, anyone with a pair of functioning eyes (or just one functioning eye, really) was able to see that GW2 is going to be different and the fact that it is different isn't all bad. There IS a reason why GW2 was needed and it wasn't just because A.Net wanted more money. GW1 was a flawed game that ran its course.
But it wasn't flawed to the extent that would demand this kind of a rework, nor was this sort of a rework evident from what we were told about the game.

#20 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:00 PM

Guild Wars 1 was revolution.
Guild Wars 2 is not.

GW2 is more WoW than GW1.

I remember back in days NO ONE i knew cared whether GW1 is the "WoW" killer or not, whether it's the most popular game or not...
It seems as if with GW2 arena net tried doing what other MMOs have lately - beat WoW.  They abandoned every single aspect of GW1 what made it revolutionary.

That being said - why am I still playing? I'll give them 1 year...I have still faith left in Arena Net and GW2 ... they simply need to liten to their player base... Ok... not really, there are so many mistakes and flaws ... I dont even know what they can do.

Edited by Perm Shadow Form, 01 December 2012 - 03:02 PM.


#21 caballo_oscuro

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:00 PM

GW2 is great fun and great value when you find a group of people to do any of the many things in the game... There's alot stuffed into it and while it doesn't have all the content and features of whatever MMO you happen to want to reference, it's been out 3 months. Over one million people bought it before it launched and there are still huge numbers of people who play it regularly.

While alot of the crowd has kinda thinned, that is inevitable in every single game that comes to market because the audience doesn't stay put. The average player consumes all kinds of entertainments including other games, music, socialising or whatever as well as whatever responsibilities they have.

GW2 has many good things going for it but it isn't ever going to be the perfect fit for everyone. I still play but I have less hours and lots of other interests so as good as it is, after 3 months of play, I don't find myself drawn to it as much because I want to sample so many things and really the content is kinda getting dull for me after however many hours I've put in. But I have put in quite a few and sampled alot of the delights.

It hasn't been the game I expected, nor is it a complete disappointment. I hope the people still plaing get many years of great fun from GW2 like I did with GW1 and the short stint in 2 but I think I will only visit infrequently for the next while as I've seen all I want to really see.

#22 Zero_Soulreaver

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:02 PM

-Before the trendy childish "TL;DR" b/s let me say if you don't care...don't read.-

Their are so many things that seem to be going over people's heads.  I swear so many have tunnel vision of what they want and what is rational.  I'm not at all saying I agree with what the outcome has been with GW2, in fact I think it's missing out on what it could have been.  I am saying that the community constantly disrupts the build of of the game by twisting ideal concepts around WoW when they should not.

I have respect for people who have some rationale for their opinion.  I swear people on here act as if 1 issue broke the game when it's obviously more than this.

I have played WoW for well over 4 years and do not believe GW2 is anything like it. I do like WoW but I hate bringing up WoW in convo about GW2, but damn it since release you guys never stop.  WoW is built around completely different aspects than GW2 is from the start, so need to compare is out the window.  People just get so caught up in talking about WoW and how they hate it that they miss the point entirely.  Seriously, people are only hurting themselves in the end. Also since the start, I'm also sick of the blind WoW bashing for no reason...it has been old since release, just grow up please.

Some major points people missed since day 1:

-The game was never about casuals ONLY. It was about both casual and those who play MMOs regularly. I'm sick of hearing "us casuals" me me me...I mean come on, you can't have an MMO these days where only 1 audience matters. Why do you think so many MMOs have made adjustments to meet current standards?

-The grind was there since the start. People were already complaining about dungeon tokens, karma farming and exotics costing a lot early on.

-If you don't play MMOs stop talking as if you know everything about them all.  I swear this is the biggest issue with this community.  I even remember back during release so many ppl bashed other MMOs and said "I never played it but I know I hate it"...*#1 facepalm moment in MMO history*

- If WoW players play your game why bash them and act as if you are too good for them?  The GW community calls them elitists however their is elitism in what the community is doing to other gamers from other MMOs and it's quite disgusting.  If you want a game to live you don't seclude yourself the way the GW2 community has done with this game.

-Anet has not changed overnight.  Anet has been fishing for a long time to make changes and slowly have done that.  Look back at the times where DR was first introduced and then look at the game today.  They just went from small changes to major changes.  If you didn't catch on to this trend Anet set by the Halloween event then something isn't right.

I do have some big problems with GW2 but I won't pretend I never enjoyed it.  I knew big changes were coming by the end of this year and highly expected this kind of backlash.  This is all apart of why I quit playing after Hurricane Sandy killed my power for a week or 2 and never returned.

I just don't find fun when the community causes in-game and forum talk to meet each other.  It was fine when game and forum were separated, but now ppl in game have started talking this same way as those on here and other GW2 forums.  Everything isn't as black and white as people make it out to be, their are so many more issues with this game besides grind and community is part of it.

I hate to say this but it feels like the GW2 community in general would rather attack each other and Anet rather than communicate strategy and help one another.

Ok so maybe attacking Anet I don't really care about, but when you have ppl in the game saying they are pretty much afraid or don't want to play with others we got issues. If people say the game isn't social their is a big problem, if you believe the game is social or not...the fact that this can be debated is a big issue. This MMO will not survive if many feel this way and no this opinion doesn't only come from my experiences at the Guru.

Edited by Zero_Soulreaver, 01 December 2012 - 03:04 PM.


#23 Robsy128

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:03 PM

View PostProtoss, on 01 December 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

As a guy that doesn't play MMOs, I don't care about the details that separate WoW from AION because it's not the details that are the reason why I don't play either. As a guy that doesn't play MMOs, GW2 is too MMO-like, regardless of what the MMO-poison of choice is.
As for the connection between GW1 and GW2 - "GW2 is everything you loved about GW1".  Now, anyone with a pair of functioning eyes (or just one functioning eye, really) was able to see that GW2 is going to be different and the fact that it is different isn't all bad. There IS a reason why GW2 was needed and it wasn't just because A.Net wanted more money. GW1 was a flawed game that ran its course.
But it wasn't flawed to the extent that would demand this kind of a rework, nor was this sort of a rework evident from what we were told about the game.

-_-
If you don't play MMOs, why are you here? I mean, okay, they said in the Manifesto: 'if you really don't like MMOs, you'll really want to check out Guild Wars 2!' That was pretty much a sentence to sell you on the game, because it's so different to virtually every MMO out there. And if you don't play MMOs, how can you compare WoW to Guild Wars 2? Have you played WoW?

Sorry if I seem like I'm having a go at you haha. I know we've quoted each others' posts a lot recently. I'm just trying to work out how you can say certain things which, in my mind, just don't add up. GW2 is an MMO - it's not a CORPG like Guild Wars was.

If you didn't see all of the changes they made during the beta weekends/demos/videos/blog posts, then I'm afraid you must have put your faith in the wrong game. We knew since 2010 that you'd only get 10 skills on your bar, that your skills would be determined by weapons, that there would be 80 levels and that combat was heavily influenced by manoeuvring a lot.

#24 Var

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:06 PM

View PostScorpioSpork, on 01 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

It would be nice if the temples in Orr stayed open longer, or were defendable (I wish I could capture and defend a temple like I can capture and defend keeps in WvW).

Did I miss something? This has been a feature since day one.


View PostScorpioSpork, on 01 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

That said, dodging feels completely unnecessary in general PvE (unless you're fighting a champ, avoiding AoE or have "on dodge" effects). PvE is pretty casual and requires little skill (or even gear) outside of dungeons.

Fractals 10/20+ without Agony Resistance is all about managing your dodge cooldown, we need more dungeons like this.

Edited by Var, 01 December 2012 - 04:08 PM.


#25 Milennin

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:18 PM

GW2 doesn't want to be an action or skill-based game.

Want proof?

They removed Evasive Arcana from Elementalists. :o

#26 Robsy128

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:20 PM

View PostVar, on 01 December 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

Fractals 10/20+ without Agony Resistance is all about managing your dodge cooldown, we need more dungeons like this.

This is true. In fairness, Scorpio did say PvE is pretty casual outside of dungeons, and it is. It is casual. But why shouldn't it be? There's something for everyone then. The casual players can easily get to level 80 and enjoy their time playing the game, whilst the hardcore players who like managing every little detail of their characters can play in dungeons.

#27 Var

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:45 PM

View PostRobsy128, on 01 December 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

This is true. In fairness, Scorpio did say PvE is pretty casual outside of dungeons, and it is. It is casual. But why shouldn't it be? There's something for everyone then. The casual players can easily get to level 80 and enjoy their time playing the game, whilst the hardcore players who like managing every little detail of their characters can play in dungeons.

I wasn't particularly disagreeing (though there are hard bosses in the open world but no one wastes their time on them since the returns are so low for the effort, and there's always Balthazar), I was more saying that we need more dungeons like Fractals where the dodge mechanic is a resource that is severely limited but extremely crucial to survival. Even with the infusions, its still painful to get hit by such telegraphed attacks and this was something that was sorely lacking in many of the dungeons of yore which were just filled with mobs with too much health and usually gimmicky, boring encounters.

#28 Robsy128

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:52 PM

View PostVar, on 01 December 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

I wasn't particularly disagreeing (though there are hard bosses in the open world but no one wastes their time on them since the returns are so low for the effort, and there's always Balthazar), I was more saying that we need more dungeons like Fractals where the dodge mechanic is a resource that is severely limited but extremely crucial to survival. Even with the infusions, its still painful to get hit by such telegraphed attacks and this was something that was sorely lacking in many of the dungeons of yore which were just filled with mobs with too much health and usually gimmicky, boring encounters.

Oh I know. I was just kind of... adding haha.
Fractals is the most fun dungeon I've been in so far and I look forward to playing more of it. I hope Arenanet adds more like these. The other dungeons also need rewards for doing story mode, because nobody does them at the moment and it's a shame. A lot of people I know want to see the story (even if it is rubbish).
We also need more puzzles like they have in Fractals. They are really fun and make you work as a team. The other dungeons are generally: go here, kill this, go there, kill that, fight the boss, get the chest, well done. It's okay, but Fractals adds more :D

#29 Krynn

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 05:05 PM

Some of us like this game. Yeah there are problems but I will keep playing for many different reason than game play itself. for one our community for the most part is awesome I don't have to deal with a ton of asshats on a map that are unhelpful ego maniacs.

Edited by unraveled, 01 December 2012 - 10:49 PM.
Removed off topic content.


#30 Daesu

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

The problem with Fractals is that currently it is the ONLY way to get ascended items and the loot it offers are a lot better than the other dungeons.  This almost makes farming other areas in the game obsolete.  If this continues, it is certainly bad for the game because it encourages farming at only a SINGLE place and if you don't like to play FOTM, you would lose out.  This discourages variety as ArenaNet over-emphasizes FOTM way too much.

I know ArenaNet promised that there would be other ways of getting ascended items but they have not delivered on that for some time and the longer they wait, the more it hurts the game.  On some servers, it is becoming hard to form a group for any other areas besides FOTM.  FOTM has almost taken over the entire game.  They may as well rename this game from GW2 to FOTM.

Edited by Daesu, 01 December 2012 - 05:28 PM.





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