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How much does this resonate with you?

grind stats over skill illusion of variety repetition

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#31 The Shadow

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 05:35 PM

I think that what reviews and people tend to miss out on is the GUILD wars experience.

To truly enjoy the content I think you need to be part of a 'good' GUILD (good being subjective of course). I don't particularly enjoy solo PvE or PUGs for dungeons or solo anything really. But when I want an armor set I ask a few guildies to help me with it (even though we are a WvW guild). What becomes so enjoyable is the banter and conversations we have while doing said content whether or not it's that good. Guild events are also a lot of fun.

WvW is the best imo for that very reason. It's based on teamwork, communication, coordination and strategy, you need to work together... My guild wars experience without being in the tight-knit community that I currently am in would probably be fairly boring. That being said, I've got plenty that I personally want to achieve in GW2 and I'm far more into the game now than I was at release purely because I have found a group of friends and a guild that keeps me interested. I honestly don't see myself getting bored any time soon.

The community, providing you find the right one for you, is where GW2 really shines.

#32 Dasryn

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:24 PM

a lot of people in this thread dont really agree with Duskwolf.

on anything for that matter.

its like Falcon said, that forbes article is all opinion based.  all of it.

sure you "resonate" with it Dusk. . . but then again, youve made it pretty obvious that you resonate with anything negative said about this game.  its why you dont even play the game anymore do you?

#33 FoxBat

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:36 PM

You consider a review written on release day to be good?

Furthermore you saw fit to spam it months later?

This forum proves there's plenty to complain about in GW2, but you aren't even trying anymore. I don't know what you are trying to accomplish.

#34 Robsy128

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:44 PM

View PostDaesu, on 01 December 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

I know ArenaNet promised that there would be other ways of getting ascended items but they have not delivered on that for some time and the longer they wait, the more it hurts the game.  On some servers, it is becoming hard to form a group for any other areas besides FOTM.  FOTM has almost taken over the entire game.  They may as well rename this game from GW2 to FOTM.

It's barely been 2 weeks since the latest update. It will take more than 2 weeks to actually make ascended gear available through different activities in the game :)

#35 Daesu

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:54 PM

View PostRobsy128, on 01 December 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:



It's barely been 2 weeks since the latest update. It will take more than 2 weeks to actually make ascended gear available through different activities in the game :)

They could have toned down their emphasis on FOTM during these 2 weeks but they chose not to.  From monthly achievements to loot FOTM is over powered.

Edited by Daesu, 01 December 2012 - 06:55 PM.


#36 Robsy128

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 07:08 PM

View PostDaesu, on 01 December 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

They could have toned down their emphasis on FOTM during these 2 weeks but they chose not to.  From monthly achievements to loot FOTM is over powered.

True, but only because they're more than likely busy with the next big update that will change the things players are complaining about. And they're working on Wintersday as well. We just have to be a little more patient :)

#37 Var

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 07:35 PM

View PostDaesu, on 01 December 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

The loot it offers are a lot better than the other dungeons.  This almost makes farming other areas in the game obsolete.

People really need to stop saying this, its really just not true. You have a chance at some really valuable things on a few maps (lodestones from Swamp/Maw) and the general odd-ball chance at a rare or exotic, but nothing drops substantial amounts of cash like standard dungeons. AC, CoF, and Arah are still more profitable per hour than Fractals but they don't come with the chance of a huge profit spike from a lucky lodestone (though you're usually going to only see a core once per every three or so map visits) though they do come with an effective guaranteed exotic after every few runs that you can buy, use, salvage for ecto, or throw in the MF. (Or, if you have no need for the items, buy the 70+ token rares and salvage them for ectos...)

You do fractals for: the race down, the ascended, and the fun of the encounters. Profits are elsewhere.

Edited by Var, 01 December 2012 - 07:37 PM.


#38 Daesu

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:03 PM

View PostVar, on 01 December 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

People really need to stop saying this, its really just not true. You have a chance at some really valuable things on a few maps (lodestones from Swamp/Maw) and the general odd-ball chance at a rare or exotic, but nothing drops substantial amounts of cash like standard dungeons. AC, CoF, and Arah are still more profitable per hour than Fractals but they don't come with the chance of a huge profit spike from a lucky lodestone (though you're usually going to only see a core once per every three or so map visits) though they do come with an effective guaranteed exotic after every few runs that you can buy, use, salvage for ecto, or throw in the MF. (Or, if you have no need for the items, buy the 70+ token rares and salvage them for ectos...)

You do fractals for: the race down, the ascended, and the fun of the encounters. Profits are elsewhere.

You have to admit, it is still the only way to get ascended items in the game and you said it yourself, you have a chance of a huge profit spike from a lodestone and named exotics from boss chests or champions.  Furthermore, it is the only dungeon that you need to do for monthly achievements.  Fractals does get ALOT more attention from ArenaNet than the other dungeons, that it is overwhelmingly the only place to play in this game, or lose out.

http://www.guildwars...fractals-again/

Edited by Daesu, 01 December 2012 - 08:18 PM.


#39 xarallei

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:09 PM

View PostProtoss, on 01 December 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

As I have said before, GW1 was the revolution GW2 should have been. Too bad nobody was paying attention.
GW2, on the other hand, is taking some of those concepts and watering them down in hopes of appealing to the WoW-crowd. And it's a shame because GW2 sometimes shows signs of brilliance - for instance "deposit all collectibles" or the ability to sell on the TP from anywhere in the world speak for a game that shits all over time and gold sinks and it's SO good in those moments.
GW2 is at its best when it's not an MMO.

I don't know about that. If it was a game like GW1 I probably wouldn't play it. The lack of a persistent world was what really held that game back for me. I just don't like the instancing. What GW1 did do much better is story. That seems really lacking in GW2, even in the personal story areas.

GW2 is not the revolutionary game everyone thought it would be. There is definitely still grind. Lots of it. Yet, it has brought things to the table that I'm hoping will influence other MMOs. The more cooperative play where you aren't competing with other players in the world is the biggest (and one of the most important) things that GW2 does right for me.

#40 Var

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:23 PM

View PostDaesu, on 01 December 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

You have to admit, it is still the only way to get ascended items in the game and you said it yourself, you have a chance of a huge profit spike from a lodestone and come with an effective guaranteed exotic every few runs.  Furthermore, it is the only dungeon that you need to do for monthly achievements.  Fractals does get ALOT more attention from ArenaNet than the other dungeons, that it is overwhelmingly the only place to play in this game, or lose out.

Ascended is the only thing limited to Fractals but that will not run you a profit since it is account bound (them being limited to here only is an issue of poor implementation). There is no guaranteed exotic as it is entirely RNG and you can see green for twenty+ levels of bad luck whereas a dungeon will guarantee you an exotic every 3-4 runs (going on the cheapest end of off-hand items) as well as random chest of drops which can also range across the whole rainbow. Moreover, no vast amounts of cash are dropped as per the dungeon bosses who will, in a single run, yield you over a gold in just cash drops and, on top of which, all now carry a chance at rares/exotic drops. I have a feeling you have spent very little time in the Fractals.

The monthly is another issue entirely and something you can literally be done with in under a few hours. The 20 coins you make from the monthly aren't about to change just how much more profitable the dungeons are to the fractals.

As for your statement regarding attention, that's a complete nonstarter as argumentative material. It is brand new content and that happens to have back to back monthlies. But you take great leaps to ignore the fact that: dungeons have been balanced, rebalanced, re-adjusted, re-tuned, and slapped around by the developers from worthless time sinks to grand money makers over the span of the previous three months. Attention wise, the dungeons have received a lot more than the fractals... and they've had their share of monthly lime-light too! More to the point, they are all being reworked to be more intune with the nature (and better design) of the fractals.

#41 Manzana

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:27 PM

View PostDaesu, on 01 December 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

You have to admit, it is still the only way to get ascended items in the game and you said it yourself, you have a chance of a huge profit spike from a lodestone and named exotics from boss chests or champions.  Furthermore, it is the only dungeon that you need to do for monthly achievements.  Fractals does get ALOT more attention from ArenaNet than the other dungeons, that it is overwhelmingly the only place to play in this game, or lose out.

http://www.guildwars...fractals-again/

Oh yeah, I was really happy when I got my Ascended Chestpiece, I mean, my Ascended Boots, I mean...  Wait, you can't get those yet <.<"  It's overwhelmingly the place to be because it's overwhelmingly new.  This mentality of "losing out" is exactly why this whole thing is becoming such a big deal.  I've been playing since the betas, since early release, and most of my 80's are still geared in greens and yellows.  Why?  Because I'd rather do things that are fun to me rather than things to make sure I don't "lose out".  Am I optimal?  Far from it.  Am I having fun? Yup.

#42 Daesu

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:06 PM

View PostVar, on 01 December 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

Ascended is the only thing limited to Fractals but that will not run you a profit since it is account bound (them being limited to here only is an issue of poor implementation). There is no guaranteed exotic as it is entirely RNG and you can see green for twenty+ levels of bad luck whereas a dungeon will guarantee you an exotic every 3-4 runs (going on the cheapest end of off-hand items) as well as random chest of drops which can also range across the whole rainbow. Moreover, no vast amounts of cash are dropped as per the dungeon bosses who will, in a single run, yield you over a gold in just cash drops and, on top of which, all now carry a chance at rares/exotic drops. I have a feeling you have spent very little time in the Fractals.

An item doesn't have to be tradable for it to be desirable, just look at the legendaries.  Similarly, the ascended items do not have to be tradable for them to be desirable.  Furthermore, ArenaNet would probably make them tradable in the future as they add more places for them to drop.  You get chests with bonuses every even level, besides having named exotics drop from boss chests and champions.  Plus you can also get free 20-slot boxes from relics, which is unique to fractals.  Those alone is a saving of 12g+ each already.

Whichever way you put it, it is going to be hard for you to argue that there isn't an emphasis placed on FOTM by ArenaNet having it been in the monthly achievements twice in the short span of 2 weeks since the update.  Considering also that the number of LFGs for Fractals in the game far outweigh those for the other dungeons put together.

Edited by Daesu, 01 December 2012 - 09:16 PM.


#43 Var

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:15 PM

View PostDaesu, on 01 December 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

An item doesn't have to be tradable for it to be desirable, just look at the legendaries.

You can sell/trade legendaries.

View PostDaesu, on 01 December 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

You can also get guaranteed exotics from trading in your fractal relics, besides having named exotics drop from boss chests and champions.  Plus you can also get free 20-slot boxes from them, which is unique to fractals.  Those alone is a saving of 12g+ each already.

The only exotic aside from a bag you're going to get from tokens costs 1350 tokens. You're going to get an order of magnitude times a constant greater than one exotics from dungeon runs. The bags in and of themselves, will save you money upfront but you can earn that same money in less time that it would take to farm up 250 badges for the exotic version.

Edited by Var, 01 December 2012 - 09:15 PM.


#44 Daesu

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:23 PM

View PostVar, on 01 December 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

The only exotic aside from a bag you're going to get from tokens costs 1350 tokens. You're going to get an order of magnitude times a constant greater than one exotics from dungeon runs. The bags in and of themselves, will save you money upfront but you can earn that same money in less time that it would take to farm up 250 badges for the exotic version.

But that is assuming that the bags are the only reward you get from investing all that time in FOTM.  As I have mentioned, the bags are only part of the rewards.  If you do the math, it would be obvious why FOTM is the most profitable dungeon right now.

From the already exceeding high percentage of FOTM LFGs relative to the other dungeons in this game, does FOTM need to draw anymore rewards and attention from the other dungeons?  This month's monthly achievements make no sense to me.

Edited by Daesu, 01 December 2012 - 09:43 PM.


#45 Auenwing

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:28 PM

Getting to level 12 and posting a review that clearly demonstrates the author does not have enough data to do an authentic analysis outside of "first impressions" does not induce any reasonable level of confidence in said author.

I'd prefer a more in-depth review, particularly from Forbes (which I admit I used to read over 25 years ago when I was working in the computer industry.)

I was hoping for an article examining GW2's financial structure.

I am sadly disappointed.


Oh, was there a question about something the author said back in August?

/moving on...

#46 unraveled

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:55 PM

Starting to meander somewhat off topic here folks, this thread isn't about FoTM. Please try to keep your replies relevant to the original post.

Thanks (:

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#47 Ualtar

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:21 PM

View PostProtoss, on 01 December 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

The reason why some of us are calling GW2 a WoW-clone is because it feels closer to WoW than to GW1.

Because its an MMO and GW1 was not...

#48 Flaming_Foxx

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:25 PM

View PostUaltar, on 01 December 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

Because its an MMO and GW1 was not...

The only thing that made GW1 NOT an MMO was that the explorable areas were instanced. It would have been easy enough to take the feel, style and gameplay of GW1 and use persistent zones and end up with something that is quite different to what GW2 has turned out to be and is still an MMO.

I think all of it is ridiculous anyway, I wouldn't call GW2 a WoW-clone. I struggled with WoW because I just couldn't get into the gameplay, the world or the story. At least GW2 is interesting >.>

#49 ScorpioSpork

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:34 PM

View PostVar, on 01 December 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

Did I miss something? This has been a feature since day one.

Fractals 10/20+ without Agony Resistance is all about managing your dodge cooldown, we need more dungeons like this.
I guess I just haven't spent enough time in Orr. Every time I see a temple, it's been taken over. But I tend to play at off times, so I understand if there aren't enough people interested in doing those events when I'm there.

I guess I said I wished it were more like WvW because it'd be nice to be able to set up defenses that would allow a smaller number of people to defend it.

And I'm glad to here that Fractals are tough! I should have clarified what I meant by "general PvE" by saying "wandering around Tyria and outside of dungeons."

EDIT: You can pretty much disregard this post. I didn't see all the other posts after mine before I replied. I'm not awake yet...

Edited by ScorpioSpork, 01 December 2012 - 11:46 PM.


#50 Fizzypop

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:09 AM

I don't think it's a wow clone. I think wow is a great game and fun. I enjoyed their pvp, instances, raids, etc etc for years. I was just tired of it and didn't want to pay $15 bucks a month for something I was tired of doing.

My problem is that anet isn't putting their own fun ideas into the game. Most of the content has just been grindy as shit and boring. I know they can do better than that! I mean even wow realized they needed to add in other shit for people who didn't raid to play through. Example; progressive story dailies were awesome even if a bit grindy. I get that they want to appeal to much wider base than GW1 players and static stat fans. That's fine, but they don't understand those types of players. They think adding in ascended would work even though it's three pieces. They said they will make it easier to get which will just piss off those players. I mean do you know how many people threw a fit when raid finder came out? You heard tons of "oh now they are just giving my shit I worked hard for away!" it took awhile for blizz to hammer into players that those raids were dropping slightly worse loot, but yes it did have the tier look. Those types of players want to feel like they are in some special club if everyone has it they won't feel that way. So this solution isn't a good one.

If they want to appeal to those players then they will need to add more and be honest with their base. That way people who this is a deal breaker for will move on. They are not going to retain those players no matter what they do because they don't want vertical progression in game. At the same time they can retain a lot of more casual players by just adding in MORE FUN SHIT TO DO! I know I'd actually play if I had something to do that was fun even though I'm not into vertical progression anymore. Hell I even took the 10 day free panda trial back to wow just to play pet battles. >.> if wow went free to play I'd play it just for those pet battles. Anet doesn't realize they have a huge advantage being free to play...they just need to add in more fun shit to do and be honest about their intentions.

ETA: This isn't to say I'm not extremely disappointed that they copped out of being an mmo with no stat progression.

Edited by Fizzypop, 02 December 2012 - 12:26 AM.


#51 Arquenya

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:53 AM

View PostRobsy128, on 01 December 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

Please, it's so far from WoW. It's actually closer to Aion than it is to WoW.
Well if GW2 is closer to Aion and Aion is closer to WoW, isn't GW2 closer to WoW than GW? ^_^

I do agree, GW2 has a lot of - old and proven - WoW characteristics and has done away with a lot of - revolutionary and succesful - GW features.
But both WoW and GW have their virtues. "WoW like" isn't necessarily bad. There's a whole list of WoW features I'd actually like to see in GW2. And, admittedly, also a few WoW features already in GW2 that I'd rather not seen.

A few things in the article that OP links:
  • "it doesn’t break enough new ground to be revolutionary in the stale MMORPG genre,  
  • it doesn’t do anything particularly innovative with its multiplayer experience"
  • "bad voice acting"
  • "the fetch-quest has largely been replaced by dynamic events that still play out a lot like fetch quests"
I do see the point in these. While GW was daring and innovative, GW2 is in a way the contrary, it plays most things on the safe side. That the reviewer also calls GW2 "wasted potential" I can also imagine.

GW2 lays very much emphasis on the "tick off list" style of "achievement" statistics/scores list. If there's one game that's king of the "theme park style MMO's" - it's GW2. Everything is thought out for you and doing exactly what ANet wants you to do is very rewarding (dailies, monthlies, you get a nice star for completing the "tick off list" they made for you!). Sometimes I find this slightly confining, a bit too much "guided city trips" and too little "wilderness".

The OP's emphasis on combat  .. well yes it's not revolutionary and very much on the safe side as well. I admit I miss some of the things GW allowed, funny skill setups and team builds. Everything is very much predetermined, controlled and limited - you can't really go wrong with builds but not be challenged either. Very safe. But all the predetermined, limited skillbars may be idot proof but they also kill every form of creativity and playfulness.
So for me, combat isn't GW2's strength either. But (fortunately) it's also not the main reason I play it.

I still think GW2 can be a very good game, regardless. But they have a lot of work to do and bring some more life, immersion and diversity into the game. As I said above, it could even use some things that WoW did right.

Edited by Arquenya, 02 December 2012 - 02:45 AM.


#52 Ardeni

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:12 AM

I don't fully agree on the Forbes' review. I agree that gw2 isn't perhaps revolutionary, I disagree with the reviewer on his opinion about gw2's questing, story and combat.

View PostDuskWolf, on 01 December 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

-Snip-

That's the problem with GW2 for me. And what I'm finding is that with the inclusion of tiered gear, GW2 has moved just that final step toward being a WoW clone. A WoW also-ran. That's how I feel about it. But don't just reply to this. Read the article and see whether it resonates with you and helps to illustrate my feelings at all.

-Snip-

Compared to other games I've played, like ME3's multi-player, where things like skill, the ability of players to co-operate with each other, and tactics can be shown, and at higher difficulties are even required... I just find GW2 to be a flop in comparison. I was expecting something more like ME3, but the notion of skill involved is an illusion. Only numbers matter.

The amount of comparisons to wow is really starting to annoy me. Perhaps there are elements of wow in every MMO, but that is not because they want to copy wow but rather because there are certain elements of the genre which just pretty much have to stay the same if you want your game to be an MMORPG. These include levels, skills, some kind of quests and gear. It seems just incorrect to say that gw2 is a wow clone in my opinion. In fact there is only one game which I would consider as a wow clone and that is Runes of the Magic. People seem to be using this word far too much to my liking these days.

I've read your posts before and I've noticed that there's a certain problem with your analogies. You compare games from different genres to eachother. Such comparisons are not valid. An MMO could never have the same combat as Mass Effect 3 does since MMOs focus on many other things than combat as well. Now, I don't know this Mass Effect game very well at all but I could imagine that it is mainly a player versus player (or group of players vs another group) kind of game. AI could not possibly match a human in its intelligence at least for now, and this is why Gw2 PvE might feel awfully easy in comparison. You said yourself that sPvP might be the only thing in gw2 that requires skills. This is because you are actually playing against another human being instead of a machine.

Also, developers don't want their MMOs to be extremely difficult since most MMO players are rather casual about their game difficulty. Most people simply don't play MMOs to face extremely hard content like in some single player games.

#53 Gileas898

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:11 AM

View PostArdeni, on 02 December 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

I don't fully agree on the Forbes' review. I agree that gw2 isn't perhaps revolutionary, I disagree with the reviewer on his opinion about gw2's questing, story and combat.



The amount of comparisons to wow is really starting to annoy me. Perhaps there are elements of wow in every MMO, but that is not because they want to copy wow but rather because there are certain elements of the genre which just pretty much have to stay the same if you want your game to be an MMORPG. These include levels, skills, some kind of quests and gear. It seems just incorrect to say that gw2 is a wow clone in my opinion. In fact there is only one game which I would consider as a wow clone and that is Runes of the Magic. People seem to be using this word far too much to my liking these days.

I've read your posts before and I've noticed that there's a certain problem with your analogies. You compare games from different genres to eachother. Such comparisons are not valid. An MMO could never have the same combat as Mass Effect 3 does since MMOs focus on many other things than combat as well. Now, I don't know this Mass Effect game very well at all but I could imagine that it is mainly a player versus player (or group of players vs another group) kind of game. AI could not possibly match a human in its intelligence at least for now, and this is why Gw2 PvE might feel awfully easy in comparison. You said yourself that sPvP might be the only thing in gw2 that requires skills. This is because you are actually playing against another human being instead of a machine.

Also, developers don't want their MMOs to be extremely difficult since most MMO players are rather casual about their game difficulty. Most people simply don't play MMOs to face extremely hard content like in some single player games.

I'd say people are complaining because there are certain elements in GW2 that are clearly inspired by WoW. The problem however, is that GW1 did these elements much better than WoW do them. There are also many elements which have been done completely differently in GW2, without any clear reasoning behind it.

For example dungeons, and the cash shop.

#54 Arquenya

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:58 PM

View PostArdeni, on 02 December 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

The amount of comparisons to wow is really starting to annoy me. Perhaps there are elements of wow in every MMO, but that is not because they want to copy wow but rather because there are certain elements of the genre which just pretty much have to stay the same if you want your game to be an MMORPG. These include levels, skills, some kind of quests and gear.
There's a whole list of GW2 features that GW (and a lot of other games) didn't have and are very obviously copied from WoW. While there's a lot of other options available and other games did it differently:
  • Crafting: an easier and simplified copy of WoW's. Also just 2 professions. Make a pile of useless stuff that you can vendor trash for less than the component's worth. Up to gathering nodes on your map and smelting to bars. Food that gives you temporary stat bonusses. Compare to LoTRO or EVE; it's totally different;
  • Shoulderpads. Mostly huge and bulky. Exactly the same;
  • White, blue, green, gold and orange for gear tiers; grinding just a small part of the game for the best stats;
  • Asura/gnomes, small, annoying, complete with robots and technology, you must be completely ignorant or a worshipping fanboy if you're not seeing the blatantly striking similarities .. I mean: wood elves or barbarians are a generic fantasy races but gnomes are very typically WoW;
  • Areas being called Harati Hinterlands and Blazing Steppes are obvious hints to WoW (Arathi Highlands and Burning Steppes);
  • Light, medium and heavy armour instead of class specific;
  • Guns, airships.
.. and more. Not saying GW2 = WoW (there's huge differences and I think GW2 could borrow some more WoW features that I actually liked, like sitting on chairs, taverns, making campfires, fishing, cheap travel, more realistic armour) but they "borrowed" a lot of features that could have been done completely different but definitely picked WoW as a blueprint. So I'm not surprised people make comparisons. Especially as the original GW:Prophecies tried to be "different", ANet seems to have turned around 180 degrees (which already showed in Nightfall and EOtN).

View PostArdeni, on 02 December 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

It seems just incorrect to say that gw2 is a wow clone in my opinion. In fact there is only one game which I would consider as a wow clone and that is Runes of the Magic.
Allods Online.

#55 RedStar

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:51 PM

View PostArquenya, on 02 December 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

-snip-
This in getting ridiculous...whatever you mentioned for GW2 and WoW aren't really staple features of those games. What you mentioned isn't what makes WoW, WoW or what defines GW2.

I never heard anyone say "I play WoW for the shoulderpads" or "guns and airships". Those features might make you think about WoW, because you actually want to compare those two games.

I can't really talk about Asura/Gnomes/Dwarves because I don't really play them nor do I know their lore, but I know enough thing to know that your comparison is overly simplistic. It reminds me of this thread http://www.guildwars...g-guild-wars-2/ (the link in this thread unfortunately doesn't work anymore).

#56 Arquenya

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:56 PM

View PostRedStar, on 02 December 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

This in getting ridiculous...whatever you mentioned for GW2 and WoW aren't really staple features of those games. What you mentioned isn't what makes WoW, WoW or what defines GW2.

I never heard anyone say "I play WoW for the shoulderpads" or "guns and airships". Those features might make you think about WoW, because you actually want to compare those two games.

I can't really talk about Asura/Gnomes/Dwarves because I don't really play them nor do I know their lore, but I know enough thing to know that your comparison is overly simplistic. It reminds me of this thread http://www.guildwars...g-guild-wars-2/ (the link in this thread unfortunately doesn't work anymore).
You're missing the point.

I was just pointing out that GW2 specifically copied things from WoW and those features are by no means "MMO generic".

Edited by Arquenya, 02 December 2012 - 03:01 PM.


#57 Bonanza Jellybean

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:57 PM

View PostShizu, on 01 December 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

OP is probably one of those terrible players who make any explorable dungeon a miserable experience for everyone in the party.

If skill is so completely absolutely 100% irrelevant, why does the same dungeon, with the same equipment tier (full exotic), take 20 minutes and zero repairs with my guild and 90 minutes + 10 silver repair fee with a pug?
Because most random players are *ing awful, that's why, despite having exactly the same numbers as my guild party.

Not going to bother with the rest of your copy/pasted ego-trip.



Also, basing a review on the first twelve levels is absolutely laughable. But hey, it's Forbes. They must be right.

I'm about to quit this trainwreck of a game, but when I read your whines, I'm really tempted to put my fanboy hat on, just for the sake of dismantling your pile of nerdrage.

^^
Yup

And is it so bad that GW2 has been influenced by the most popular mmo of all time? Was WoW 100% original? Not nearly. Anyone who played EQ can attest to that. Blizz took the good parts from other games and made the tedious/less efficient things better, as ANet has done with this game.
So tired of the comparisons, just play or don't play...and stfu.

Edited by Bonanza Jellybean, 02 December 2012 - 03:06 PM.


#58 Ardeni

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:05 PM

View PostArquenya, on 02 December 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

There's a whole list of GW2 features that GW (and a lot of other games) didn't have and are very obviously copied from WoW. While there's a lot of other options available and other games did it differently:
  • Crafting: an easier and simplified copy of WoW's. Also just 2 professions. Make a pile of useless stuff that you can vendor trash for less than the component's worth. Up to gathering nodes on your map and smelting to bars. Food that gives you temporary stat bonusses. Compare to LoTRO or EVE; it's totally different;
  • Shoulderpads. Mostly huge and bulky. Exactly the same;
  • White, blue, green, gold and orange for gear tiers; grinding just a small part of the game for the best stats;
  • Asura/gnomes, small, annoying, complete with robots and technology, you must be completely ignorant or a worshipping fanboy if you're not seeing the blatantly striking similarities .. I mean: wood elves or barbarians are a generic fantasy races but gnomes are very typically WoW;
  • Areas being called Harati Hinterlands and Blazing Steppes are obvious hints to WoW (Arathi Highlands and Burning Steppes);
  • Light, medium and heavy armour instead of class specific;
  • Guns, airships.
.. and more. Not saying GW2 = WoW (there's huge differences and I think GW2 could borrow some more WoW features that I actually liked, like sitting on chairs, taverns, making campfires, fishing, cheap travel, more realistic armour) but they "borrowed" a lot of features that could have been done completely different but definitely picked WoW as a blueprint. So I'm not surprised people make comparisons. Especially as the original GW:Prophecies tried to be "different", ANet seems to have turned around 180 degrees (which already showed in Nightfall and EOtN).


Allods Online.

The fact that something was in wow and is now very similar in gw2 does not mean that Arenanet copied it from WoW. Sure, it could be the case but how can we even know which features WoW copied from other games and which features Blizzard invented? One could call WoW an everquest clone with the same arguments as yours.

For example, you can't say that every game that has airships has copied it from WoW. Or that every game with big shoulderpads has taken it from WoW. Or that WoW invented gnomes (which in fact are fairytale creatures). On this basis most of your claims are quite ridiculous. The only potential ones on your list that I see are the crafting system (which might have taken inspiration from WoW, unless somebody invented such system even before Blizzard did), the item tiers (same story as with crafting) and the names of the areas (which are hardly meaningful for most of us).

It is really pretty much impossible to make an MMO which has nothing similar with any other MMO that has been made before. Thus it is stupid, in my opinion, to call something a "WoW clone" when it has a couple of similar features. I'm not familiar with Allods online, but at least Runes of Magic was similar enough with WoW that I would have called it a WoW clone. There were simply so many systems that were essentially the same. This isn't the case with gw2.

#59 Arquenya

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:20 PM

View PostArdeni, on 02 December 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

The fact that something was in wow and is now very similar in gw2 does not mean that Arenanet copied it from WoW. Sure, it could be the case but how can we even know which features WoW copied from other games and which features Blizzard invented? One could call WoW an everquest clone with the same arguments as yours.

For example, you can't say that every game that has airships has copied it from WoW. Or that every game with big shoulderpads has taken it from WoW. Or that WoW invented gnomes (which in fact are fairytale creatures). On this basis most of your claims are quite ridiculous. The only potential ones on your list that I see are the crafting system (which might have taken inspiration from WoW, unless somebody invented such system even before Blizzard did), the item tiers (same story as with crafting) and the names of the areas (which are hardly meaningful for most of us).

It is really pretty much impossible to make an MMO which has nothing similar with any other MMO that has been made before. Thus it is stupid, in my opinion, to call something a "WoW clone" when it has a couple of similar features. I'm not familiar with Allods online, but at least Runes of Magic was similar enough with WoW that I would have called it a WoW clone. There were simply so many systems that were essentially the same. This isn't the case with gw2.
I don't see my claims as "ridiculous". And as I already said in my former post I definitely don't think GW2 is a WoW clone, I just pointed out the obvious similarities. The fact that WoW didn't invent the term "gnomes" has nothing to do with the fact that also having a short, nerdy, science orientated, robot building race in a fantasy world is a bit too obvious to be a coincidence. Whether you call that race Asura, Gnomes, Smurfs, Humptydumpties or whatever ..

Why they´re more similar to WoW than other games I don´t know.
Perhaps the fact that ANet was founded by former Blizzard employees has something to do with it?

Edited by Arquenya, 02 December 2012 - 03:42 PM.


#60 RedStar

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:35 PM

View PostArquenya, on 02 December 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

I don't see my claims as "ridiculous". And as I already said in my former post I definitely don't think GW2 is a WoW clone. As I already posted, I just pointed out the obvious similarities. The fact that WoW didn't invent gnomes has nothing to do with the fact that also having a small, nerdy, science orientated, robot building race in a fantasy world is a bit too obvious to be a coincidence.

Why they´re more similar to WoW than other games I don´t know.
Perhaps the fact that Anet was founded by former Blizzard employees has something to do with it?
They are obvious similarities in the same way that if you read two different paper on the Cold War you are bound to find mentions of the Berlin Wall and the Korean War. Does this mean that one of them copied on the other ? Not really, it simply means that you can't really talk about the Cold War without mentioning that.
Just like that as a MMO designer you want your players to find a race they like, so you give them humans, a bigger bulky race, a race close to nature, one that's beastly and one that is small. And then you assign to each of those races some character traits that blend well together according to your target audience.

(Yeah it's an awful analogy, but hopefully you'll get what I'm trying to say).




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