156 replies to this topic

[GSSB Lunaspike]

ukgamer23, on 01 December 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

I really don't envy the life of a game developer, it must be very disheartening to be constantly moaned at by your player-base. How much is enough for the MMO gamer? Will you or I ever be pleased?
"oh this is too easy"
"this is too hard"
"this is too grindy"
"there isnt enough grind, nothing to do"
"too much to do"
"too random"
  "ugh, such boring loot we all have the same"
  and it just keeps going.

The fact is they cant please everyone, no one can. Do we have to jump on every decision? Every piece of content? It will never be perfect for us all.
Look at the clock-tower, the dev actually apologized for making it too hard? Are we all that pathetic that any challenge in a video game is cried about so much, we need a sorry note from the creator?

Most of us gamers now are 18-30, we grew up with games...cant we all just grow up in general? Sure post constructive posts about issues, but leave the crying in the cot with the bottle.

Why do people think crying is a bad thing. Or that if you cry you are a baby? I just don't get it. I've cried a few times in my life, and I'm not ashamed of those times. Please stop putting down on people that cry. You don't know their circumstances.

I think you probably meant whine. Now whining is something completely different. In general I think it's because the games you played as you grew up were all niche games, designed for much smaller markets. To them selling a few hundred thousand copies was successful. Of course that was in the days when the cost of developing a game wasn't nearly what it is now. Considering now costs go into the millions (consider the rumors of SWtoR costing hundreds of millions) games have to have much larger markets in order to just get the cost of production back. Further, companies want profits. We aren't talking a few hundred thousand dollars profit, we are talking millions of dollars in profits. Consider if say WoW made all of the cost of development back, and further made enough each month to pay the salaries of employees/cost of servers but that's it. Would it be considered a success? Possibly, but not by the market as it is now.

Further complicating things are that there is just too much competition now. With many games going free to play. Developers are painted into a corner. Either try to please people, or lose what you have.

Quote

you must consider that wow had 8 years to develop the content it has today.  to expect a new mmorpg to launch with current gen graphics and AS MUCH content as WoW is ludicrous.  not only is that through the roof expensive, but there are many other factors involved.

to through out such generalization without taking this fundamental thing into consideration is. . . wrong.

i think devs do the best they can, you carve out their own little section in the market.

unless you want WoW to be a monopoly. . . .

The only argument with this idea is that it doesn't work in the current market. Consider if you decided to make a car now, but didn't include things like power steering etc.. It wouldn't matter if you said "those other companies have had years to develop their cars, you guys should buy mine and I will develop those things over time". People simply wouldn't buy the car.

I know it isn't exactly the same, but I was looking for something that everyone could understand. I'm not saying I even agree with it. I think anyone should be able to see that WoW had a long time to develop what it has now. It simply doesn't matter anymore. That's not a good thing, and it's really hurt the market. Simply look at the highest selling games this month. Go over to the game stop website and check out the best selling games. Most of them are the exact same game, with a different skin and slight tweaks here or there.

The new market for video games has killed any innovation. Instead it's a set pattern that makes slight (usually very slight, you don't want to piss people off) improvements.

Edited by GSSB Lunaspike, 03 December 2012 - 12:08 PM.

[Norn Osprey]

Blixcoe, on 01 December 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

I loved the mad king jumping puzzle! Too bad they're not going to do them anymore
In all honesty though, it wasn't even that hard. I don't get the complaining.....

The clocktower was fun but the designer admitted to making several mistakes that he wouldnt make again. Then Southsun Cove was released, with a jumping puzzle with the two of the -very- things he admitted to never doing again, were done again.

Honestly, as much as I liked A.Net and GW1, it sure doesn't seem that they are learning from their mistakes. They said with the Mad King one-time event in Lion's Arch, that they would not do that again because people overseas didnt get to see it first hand. What did they do next?  A one-time event on SouthSun, for the big ending event that people oversea didn't get to participate in.

It sure doesn't seem like they are listening to their customers -and- learning from their own mistakes.

[Redhawk2007]

Norn Osprey, on 03 December 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

The clocktower was fun but the designer admitted to making several mistakes that he wouldnt make again. Then Southsun Cove was released, with a jumping puzzle with the two of the -very- things he admitted to never doing again, were done again.

Honestly, as much as I liked A.Net and GW1, it sure doesn't seem that they are learning from their mistakes. They said with the Mad King one-time event in Lion's Arch, that they would not do that again because people overseas didnt get to see it first hand. What did they do next?  A one-time event on SouthSun, for the big ending event that people oversea didn't get to participate in.

It sure doesn't seem like they are listening to their customers -and- learning from their own mistakes.

The likely reason for this is that most of the content was designed before the game was released. They would be fools not to have at least some major content designed before hand so they can say "look, we have regular content updates!" The alternative would be to design content on the fly and have it not be ready for times like Halloween or Christmas, which would be a disaster.

[raspberry jam]

jayson, on 03 December 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

As individuals we ask for what was promised. It's when you ask groups you're going to get a mess of answers that are always going to clash with thoughts and ideas of everyone else around you on how to make a game great.

If Anet gave everyone what they wanted you'd have an MMO that starts off killing giants and dragons with swords and sorcery that switches to an FPS with guns and rockets while flying through the sky on wings or ships killing aliens then diving into the ocean killing some other random thing while heading back onto land and slaughtering zombies while levelling up on one of the forthy thousand different crafting ablilities and learning at least three thousand skills in a persistant world that's also instanced that has health bars that aren't health bars while sipping potions during your ride on a mount while heading to the auction house that is in a secret base that's connected to your guild where you have your personal house that you've decorated all by yourself. Of course you'd have to first create your character from the 80 different classes with the 600 possible options for eyes, nose, ears, teeth, tongue, ears, elbows blah, blah, blah.

They had a good thing going with GW. There were misses at times sure but it wasn't trying to be anything else anyone had. Now GW2 is pretty much trying to be everything everyone already had all at once.

This is a 5 star post and basically explains exactly the problem. Just find a niche and stick with it (hint: grind isn't a niche concept). That's why so many successful devs back in the 80s and 90s said "I make a game that I want to play myself". Of course now they can't say that because they're mostly told what game to make.

[CalmLittleBuddy]

MMO players can ask for whatever they want. They're customers.

I think what you're asking is "Are we complaining too much?"

Yes. Yes we are.

Asking is fine, but we DEMAND and HOWL and WHINE too much. And in the wrong places.

People think that if you complain long enough and loud enough, that's the best way to get them to listen. It isn't. You can cite examples all you want. Those are exceptions, not the rule.

So how DO we get game companies to listen? $$.

The end.

[Sinful01]

1.) I think people in general expect too much. If you look at those "Happiest Countries in the World" articles that come out from time to time you'll notice one glaring thing: the happy places aren't massively awesome places where everyone has everything they want and money and donuts rain from the sky.  The happiest places are nice, calm, relatively 'safe' countries where the populous just have realistic expectations.  They're happy, overall, because they're generally happy with what they have and don't expect the world.


2.) The internet gives every person this "I'm just as important as everyone else (or MORE important .. yes .. MOAR!!!)" attitude.  The internet is the ultimate Democratizing tool out there.  It levels everyone as equals ... it gives everyone a voice.

Obviously though, some people (while they have every right to speak & voice their opinions) aren't worth listening to.  People have bad ideas all the time in life ... but if a mob gets together, sometimes those bad (and terrible, horrific, downright obscene) ideas get shouted loudly enough to hear.  That one crazy dude is suddenly 1,000 crazy dudes, all with the same stupid idea.

The guy who stands on the corner and holds massively offensive signs up, that most people just look away from or laugh at because he is a complete nitwit, here on the internet, has a blog and 'followers' and a newsletter and it makes him feel like he is actually a worthwhile part of the community instead of just some bigoted, paranoid nutcase with some markers and a pizza box.


3.)  I hugely agree with the other posters in here though, with the "just make the game you want to make for the people you choose and stick to it" comments.

Restaurants don't do well that try and make everything well and end up half-assing everything.  They pick something and stick to it.  People that love mexican food will eat at the awesome mexican place a few times a week.  Everyone else will either go there sometimes, and enjoy it when they do, or not go because they know they won't like it and the rest of us don't have to listen to them sit in a booth and QQ because there is no spaghetti like WoW has.

[beanzzs]

i do not demand too much. I just want pvp that is not boring. Why? why is gw2 pvp so boring.

Edited by beanzzs, 03 December 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[sty0pa]

Trei, on 03 December 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

Anet can always create specific environmental items for players to find and use.

it's why they came up with the bundles mechanic.

Kind of missing my point.

They DO have the ability to pick up environmental objects*, but my point is that the result is then...to do nothing more inventive than kill a boss...again.

I'm talking about novelty and lateral thinking in terms of instance goals - what if the goal is to save the boss from the hordes of incoming attackers?  There are too many, respawning too fast to fight off, but you know help is coming in 5 mins...
- you can try healing him through it, but that alone is almost impossible to succeed at
- you can aoe and take hordes of the attackers onto you, can you keep enough of them occupied instead of them attacking him?
- aoe control alone won't stop enough, but combined with the others might just be enough....

Or what about a 'boss instance' with rapid-patting mobs and almost-instantly lethal guards?  The only way to succeed is creative stealth and or jump-puzzling to the end.  Varying layout of course, so there is never a mapped-path through the instance.  Or a ruin full of traps that can only be detected/tripped and thus avoided by creative use of varied abilities?

Or a boss who is instantly lethal, so your only ability to survive and let the NPCs finish their task is to constantly kite the boss and trade aggro before he gets to you.

*Dunno about you, but does anyone else wonder why they BOTHERED sprinkling the world with useable rocks, sticks, shovels, tools, etc?  Does ANYONE use those things?  Hell, I don't even like to use the 'specific' tool we're given to finish certain heart quests, because almost invariably they suck compared to my own damage, etc.

[Norn Osprey]

Redhawk2007, on 03 December 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

The likely reason for this is that most of the content was designed before the game was released.

Except, in same thread where the Dev admitted to being the designer of the Clocktower and Troll's End (puzzle he considered his worst) some of the newest ones added during Halloween patch, also push the camera down into norn characters. He stated in that admission, he used the tallest norn possible to make sure things were functionally ok. He admitted Trolls End was bad because of the camera issues. Said he wouldn't repeat them.

Then repeated them for some of the new stuff added during the Halloween patch. So again, are they living and actually -learning- from their mistake or are they just living?

Presently, this is a very small sample size but it sure gives a bad impression when things they say wont be repeated, get repeated.

[Asudementio]

Norn Osprey, on 03 December 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Except, in same thread where the Dev admitted to being the designer of the Clocktower and Troll's End (puzzle he considered his worst) some of the newest ones added during Halloween patch, also push the camera down into norn characters. He stated in that admission, he used the tallest norn possible to make sure things were functionally ok. He admitted Trolls End was bad because of the camera issues. Said he wouldn't repeat them.

Then repeated them for some of the new stuff added during the Halloween patch. So again, are they living and actually -learning- from their mistake or are they just living?

Presently, this is a very small sample size but it sure gives a bad impression when things they say wont be repeated, get repeated.

What is trying to be said is that the puzzles with such issues seen thus far were designed before he received  feedback and pledged changes.

[Alex Dimitri]

Problem with today`s MMO games is not that they demand too much from players !
Every MMO game out there is design to milk players cash more then to satisfy our hunger for RPG element that we like so much.
Another problem is that most if not all developers involved in creation of these games are not "gamers" themselves, they are crafty programmers and artist but they severely lack that "insight" every long time player of MMO`s has, insight about what`s FUN and when it turns UGLY grind !

We had very serious uproar against Ascended gear and to be honest no true MMO "addict" would implement that like they did, even if we wanted more gear i doubt anyone would make it pure grind to get it !

Also take a look at new map, i would NEVER not in a million years introduce something like that in game with such a great lore like GW2 has. Place feels out of space out of touch with every other part of the game and it`s simply boring. That`s perfect example of job half done and rushed to be implemented !!!

There are NO perfect MMO`s out there but what`s scares me to death is that every new one has less and less fun and more grind, more pay to win attitude, even those that start good get spoiled in the process.

I understand it`s business but who made rule that it can`t be art & imagination and pure fun at the same time, i don`t mind paying for fun, but with passing time and every new title i have less and less wish to give them any money, simply because most of them don`t deserve it anymore !!!

[Treble]

No, we don't demand too much. But the developers are more than welcome not to listen to the things we ask for (or at least find a happy medium), at the risk of never seeing another dime from us.

[sevalaricgirl]

Blixcoe, on 01 December 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

I loved the mad king jumping puzzle! Too bad they're not going to do them anymore
In all honesty though, it wasn't even that hard. I don't get the complaining.....

so you say but for every 1 person who achieved it, 20 failed and mostly because of the way the camera angles are.  I gave up after about an hour of having Norn after Charr after Norn in front of me.  It was insane.

[sevalaricgirl]

Alex Dimitri, on 03 December 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

pay to win attitude,

What is pay to win about GW2?  There isn't anything you can't get with in game gold.  Pay to win means paying real money for stat bonuses.  You don't have to do that in this game.  GW2 isn't a pay to win game.  Not even in the slightest.  Not to mention other f2p games that offer only cosmetic things in their store.

Edited by sevalaricgirl, 03 December 2012 - 05:50 PM.

[Gorwe]

This is my take:

You have your standard MMOs(what I will relate to Nestle chocolate). You also have Mozartkugeln(the premiere MMOs).

You can either have full drawer of Nestle chocolates so you choose you flavour(plenty o MMOs gives you freedom to choose-even if all them are mediocrities) or a package/two packages of Kugels(a perfect mmo but if it is pve oriented you're screwed). Rational choice yes? But here comes error!

"What if I could a drawer full of Kugels?"->error!

In MMO words: "I want easy perfect MMO, hard perfect MMO, PvE perfect MMO, PvP perfect MMO,..."->error!

The problem with today's Age is entitlement/spoiled brats. Waah, waaah nothing is good enough! Here is a free tip crybabies:

There's no such thing as perfect/ideal thing!

[Treble]

Gorwe, on 03 December 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

This is my take:

You have your standard MMOs(what I will relate to Nestle chocolate). You also have Mozartkugeln(the premiere MMOs).

You can either have full drawer of Nestle chocolates so you choose you flavour(plenty o MMOs gives you freedom to choose-even if all them are mediocrities) or a package/two packages of Kugels(a perfect mmo but if it is pve oriented you're screwed). Rational choice yes? But here comes error!

"What if I could a drawer full of Kugels?"->error!

In MMO words: "I want easy perfect MMO, hard perfect MMO, PvE perfect MMO, PvP perfect MMO,..."->error!

The problem with today's Age is entitlement/spoiled brats. Waah, waaah nothing is good enough! Here is a free tip crybabies:

There's no such thing as perfect/ideal thing!

The dumbest part about this post is that it assumes being a "premiere" game makes it good. It doesn't. Everything is subjective.

Being a "premiere" MMO does not make it a great game, nor does it make it successful.

In fact, some of the most successful MMO's outside of WoW are not AAA titles.

So regardless of whether it's a "standard" MMO or a "premiere" MMO, the developer has to make sure its audience is happy (therefore listen to the audience and find a happy medium) if it wants to make money. What happens when developers think they know better than their audience does? They lose customers. They then become F2P (if they were subscription-based) and finally start trying to cater to their audience, and/or their population dwindles and servers merge to become a niche game.

Edited by Treble, 03 December 2012 - 08:38 PM.

[Alex Dimitri]

sevalaricgirl, on 03 December 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

What is pay to win about GW2?  There isn't anything you can't get with in game gold.  Pay to win means paying real money for stat bonuses.  You don't have to do that in this game.  GW2 isn't a pay to win game.  Not even in the slightest.  Not to mention other f2p games that offer only cosmetic things in their store.

Man you clearly didn`t read my entire post i didn`t mention GW2 in that context, i was talkin` generally about MMO genre !
But i can say out loud few names to get the picture: Runes Of Magic, Allods Online..... clear examples of P2W games.

About GW2 buddy of mine got Legendary weapon done, but he used real cash (not gold sellers but he bought crap load of gems) after exchange he bought all missing pieces ! In process he spend couple of hundred euros i told him that he is crazy in which he replied and i quote "F*** it i can`t get it any other way and i want it" !

Edited by Alex Dimitri, 03 December 2012 - 10:49 PM.

[OriginalSinX]

In my experience, there are almost no cross cut groups of people as sad and whiny as gamers.  Gamers expect perfection and if something does not go their way, they rage on non official forums about how brokenhearted they are that something as devastating as liner gear progress came along, even if it does not affect sPvP.  Its a shame people cannot enjoy what they get for 60$ and work within the confines, ofc also giving the gamemakers their imput so they can improve the game.  I'm having a blast in this game, love the events monthly, love the pvp as it  is not gear based, just skill, and would wish others will have the same fun i am.  Hugs

[HawkofStorms]

CalmLittleBuddy, on 03 December 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

MMO players can ask for whatever they want. They're customers.

I think what you're asking is "Are we complaining too much?"

Yes. Yes we are.

Asking is fine, but we DEMAND and HOWL and WHINE too much. And in the wrong places.

People think that if you complain long enough and loud enough, that's the best way to get them to listen. It isn't. You can cite examples all you want. Those are exceptions, not the rule.

So how DO we get game companies to listen? $$.

The end.

Exactly.  When you complain about everything, A.net has no idea what actually is wrong.  It's hard to distinguish legitimate complaints like the state of structured PvP, from people complaining about characters having .02% more power then them from ascended gear.

[Keepy]

Im very demanding with games sadly and it kills my enjoyment. I dont like games that are too hard i do like challenge but not frustrating hard. I like games with a nice economy , since real life economy sucks xD

I like cheap stuff, that can take me 2-3 days but not weeks or months to buy because of expensiveness, tokens currency etc. So as you can see i dont like karkas, i dont like legendarys, dungeons are ok even if it takes 2 weeks to get the set but at least now we have those bags that drops time to time. I dont like how rare and hard things are for drops. I dont like when crafting is so insanely hard for like 250 items of a rare or exotic crafting item.

I like medium game not easy not hard hard like fractals lvl 12+ and no. not everyone can play how they want, if you do fractals lvl 11+ you have to change your build and do your best if all are glass cannon is impossible to complete and most everyone i know are glass cannon or magic find but me. Soo.... yeah im very sad with the game right now looking forward to the winter event (hoping is not a cs gamble)

[Lord Bazaah]

All I ask is that they stay true to what they advertised in the past. The core tenants of Guild Wars 1 were:

• No monthly fee
  
• Unmoving powercap.

These are what sets it apart from other games in its genre, so much so it virtually created a genre of its own. They strained them in Nightfall and EOTN, but never outright broke them. I didn't ask them to say GW2 would have the same values as GW1, but they did. Now that they have decided to change it, I'm saddened because I truly enjoyed the years spent on GW1 and was looking forward to spending more in its sequel.

In answer to your question: yes people do, apparently, ask to much from MMOs.

[Gorwe]

Keep in mind-in my example there is NO premiere MMO(yet). It would be of Themebox legacy with quite some opportunities(sth for everyone). Is there such MMO? No.

WoW is Like McDonalds(or Coca-Cola)-not necessarily the best, let alone premiere example of it's own branch.

[GSSB Lunaspike]

Gorwe, on 03 December 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

This is my take:

You have your standard MMOs(what I will relate to Nestle chocolate). You also have Mozartkugeln(the premiere MMOs).

You can either have full drawer of Nestle chocolates so you choose you flavour(plenty o MMOs gives you freedom to choose-even if all them are mediocrities) or a package/two packages of Kugels(a perfect mmo but if it is pve oriented you're screwed). Rational choice yes? But here comes error!

"What if I could a drawer full of Kugels?"->error!

In MMO words: "I want easy perfect MMO, hard perfect MMO, PvE perfect MMO, PvP perfect MMO,..."->error!

The problem with today's Age is entitlement/spoiled brats. Waah, waaah nothing is good enough! Here is a free tip crybabies:

There's no such thing as perfect/ideal thing!

Actually you are wrong. Perfection is around, but it is completely subjective. So while something may not be perfect to you, it might be to someone else. You probably won't be able to accept that though, and we both know why.

As for the age of spoiled brats, Anet is learning right now why you have to appease those people. If you want to make money, you either deliver what people will pay for or they will go somewhere else and spend their money. Brand name loyalty is a thing of the past. That's a good thing though.

People like you need to realize something, and the sooner the better. Those people you are calling "spoiled brats" control the market. They will pay for the games that they like. The majority rules the market. Games will have to please those people, or they won't get made anymore.

Quote

m very demanding with games sadly and it kills my enjoyment.

Why are you sorry? Be as demanding as you please. I pay my own bills, I have my own money. I will be damned if I'm just going to hand it to a company. They have to earn it, and if they can't earn it there are plenty of others out there willing to try. A big problem these days is consumers have forgotten how much power they wield.

Edited by GSSB Lunaspike, 04 December 2012 - 12:31 PM.

[Vexies]

Do MMO players demand / expect too much?...

Let me see.. do bears poop in the woods?  It happens every MMO now. It looks cool, people get excited and start telling there friends about it, those friends tell their friends about it and in a weeks time this new MMO is supposed to cure cancer, fulfill all your hopes, wishes and dreams, provide universal health care and give a new religion to fill the empty void of hate and entitlement to the masses.

The days of even remotely reasonable or realistic expectations have long, long since passed.

Edited by Vexies, 04 December 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[Treble]

Vexies, on 04 December 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

The days of even remotely reasonable or realistic expectations have long, long since passed.

You know, there were people like you who kept saying people complained too much on FFXIV forums, and that the game was fine. They said we were being unrealistic in our expectations of the game.

Lol?

[Vexies]

Quote

You know, there were people like you who kept saying people complained too much on FFXIV forums, and that the game was fine. They said we were being unrealistic in our expectations of the game.

Lol?

There's legitimately expressing your feelings about a broken game and that one is most certainly the poster child of all broken MMO's and then there is allowing yourself to get so hyped up by the hype train that you literally believe it and bring unrealistic expectations to a game.

I am speaking of the later of course.  It happens with every new MMO release.  EVERY MMO that has ever come out has issues and will. No MMO that has ever released has released with out bugs, log in issues, balance concerns or some other issue that get people all in a uproar today.  Yet every MMO they complain and complain.  Its the nature of the beast.

Yes we as consumers should demand more and hope for better but lets be honest here as a non-member of the church of GW1 and a non-card carrying member of the religion of the now over used manifesto video I brought to the table realistic expectations for GW2 and have been very much satisfied with what I have. The game has issues like any other MMO.  Some of them very serious, just like any other MMO however I did not let the bull shit transform into a religion like some seem to and have my world crumble as a result of them not living up to it.

[raspberry jam]

CalmLittleBuddy, on 03 December 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

So how DO we get game companies to listen? $$.

The end.

This is why McDonald's serve gourmet food.

[CalmLittleBuddy]

raspberry jam, on 04 December 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

This is why McDonald's serve gourmet food.

Are you kidding me? Most folks LOVE McDonalds and HATE gormet food. No one has given them the impetus to change. We can't change stupid, and unfortunately stupid pays the bills most places, it seems.

Now, if a restaurant promises gormet food, opens up and gives it.... but then starts to add things like 'curly fries' to their menu to please the common palate (and rake in the cash from the family diner demographic), now there's a reason to be upset. But shouting in the restaurant won't do anything.

And here on Guru, it's like shouting in the store next door to the restaurant. Sure, the owners might hear you, but unless they're expecting to hear from you through the wall, forget it.

If folks don't like the new direction of GW2, the quickest way to get Anet to change is to bring your gaming dollars elsewhere. If they STILL don't stop moving in that direction, that means they're still making money. That means not everyone was quite as displeased as those who left.

Everyone seems to be upset about 'promises' and campy vision statements about a vague paradise somewhere in Anet land not being fulfilled. Hey, if I'd expected that, I'd be mad too.

But I don't think I'd try the forum as a means of trying to get Anet to listen. I'd contact them directly until they answered me with a live human being. I might even call them.

Complaints on forums seem to be just anger venting. Which is fine, but there soooo much of it out there these days that it becomes white noise. The overload of long winded complaints and multiple threads by the same posters over and over again have made it hard to get any complaint on a forum taken seriously these days.

I'm not saying don't do it, just answering the question that, yes, there's TOO MUCH of it.

[Juanele]

CalmLittleBuddy, on 04 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

Are you kidding me? Most folks LOVE McDonalds and HATE gourmet food.

I assume this is sarcasm?

[Specialz]

I think companies and players set themselves up for failure and disappointment. Companies hype up a game and players for multiple reasons do not look at the information objectively. They go in with unrealistic expectations and become surprise when it doesn't meet those expectations.

In the case of guild wars 2, especially with the reset ascended gear stuff, I think most of the issue was that arenanet made the mistake of setting themselves and the players too high. They mistakenly thought, making a fun game was all that was needed to get people to play an MMO. Unfortunately, a significant amount of MMO players NEED grind in other to feel motivated to actually play a game. The people that were disappointed by the change were right to complain, but I think most of them failed to understand the motivation for their introduction into the game, which goes back to my original point that companies and players set themselves up for failure.

Former guild wars 2 fanboys to me are the most vengeful gamers I have seen only surpassed by Diablo 3 and or FFXIII haters, because the standards some of them held were probably too high to begin with.

Honestly, this is exactly why i think Valve would be foolish to attempt making Half-life 2: episode 3.

Juanele, on 04 December 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

I assume this is sarcasm?

I think he was a exaggeration a little bit, but purely from a sales standpoint you could make the argument. Personally, i hate gourmet food because it is unnecessarily expensive and it is not enjoy to fill my belly. I once had a 50 dollar single porkchop that was barely cooked, that shit made me sick.

Edited by Specialz, 04 December 2012 - 04:39 PM.