Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
- - - - -

What I got from the state of pvp discussion...


  • Please log in to reply
65 replies to this topic

#31 prince vingador

prince vingador

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 496 posts
  • Server:Anvil Rock

Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:26 PM

why do people think ele is op? For me is one of the weakest class,i think mesmer are the op class in pvp,i have my share of pvp and eles are not op in any way.

#32 Roland Der Meister

Roland Der Meister

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 138 posts
  • Server:Crystal Desert

Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:45 PM

View Postprince vingador, on 02 December 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

why do people think ele is op? For me is one of the weakest class,i think mesmer are the op class in pvp,i have my share of pvp and eles are not op in any way.
Ther downed state is really is the most OP downed state Thanks to vapor form and makes killing bunker eles extremely hard

#33 Celestial Teapot

Celestial Teapot

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 01 December 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

I can already see it coming:

December Patch:
- Cleansing water now has a 10 seconds cooldown.

January Patch:
- Removed unintended condition removal from cleansing water.

You say aurashare is the only viable build which you are worried about being nerfed. So what does cleansing water being nerfed have to do with anything? Aurashare can't use cleansing water, do you even know what you're complaining about?

#34 blindude

blindude

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1142 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:33 PM

Bunker ele is not the only viable build guys..stop with that already.Yeah we shouldnt get nerfer further more imo but dont say such stupid things.
Especially when there are many people even in top pvp scene that run more offencive builds like those with valkyries stats.
I personally have grown to appreciate the overall utility of the class and team support which is great even on roamer builds.

#35 shaolinwind

shaolinwind

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 941 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

lol, everyone who has played ele knows its weakest in damage.

Whats funny, is out of the pro's they used for the discussion how many were ele mains?... oh ya none. And yet they discussed ele changes for paragraphs while discussing with ... THEIVES.

HAHAHAHAAAAA.

We were trolled bros. Don't you wonder why all these non-ele players come and try to comfort us on the ele boards?

GL.

#36 fafnr

fafnr

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 49 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:05 PM

No matter what is trolling or not, I have zero faith in Arena Net.  All they seem to do is nerf lines that noone was complaining about without fixing ANYTHING in other lines to make them more viable.   Any more even slight nerfs to my Ele or Engi an Arena Net can kiss my ass.  And why can thieves still do the crap they have done since launch?  Yet engi grenades get an across the board 10/15% damage nerf? lol   Noone I know ever complained about grenade damage.  If you cant avoid that damage then you need to play another game.

I just got shanked bya  thief in wvw for over 24k damage though about 10 minutes ago in wvw on my engineer.  Took him about 5 seconds.  Glad Arena Net knows what theyre doing lol.

#37 Featherman

Featherman

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1028 posts
  • Location:Frolicking in Kalos

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:06 PM

View Postblindude, on 04 December 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Bunker ele is not the only viable build guys..stop with that already.Yeah we shouldnt get nerfer further more imo but dont say such stupid things.
Especially when there are many people even in top pvp scene that run more offencive builds like those with valkyries stats.
I personally have grown to appreciate the overall utility of the class and team support which is great even on roamer builds.
Valkyrie is semi bunker. It still reinforces the fact that we're so reliant on defensive and healing stats to be successful.

Edited by Featherman, 04 December 2012 - 10:29 PM.


#38 blindude

blindude

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1142 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:24 PM

View PostFeatherman, on 04 December 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Valkyrie is semi bunker. It still reinforces the fact that we're so reliant on defensive and healing stats to be successful.
then you are just playing with words man..with valkyries and a crit with arcane power for the whole scepter combo on an enemy thats heavy cced by my team(cause after all its a teamfights game) i do like 10k+ damage probably much much more from what i have seen at testing at the training dummies.
Btw can i ask something irrelevant?
Phoenix uses 3 charges, dt 1 and firegrab another 1 charge despite how many enemies they hit.Is this a bug with arcane power or is it intended

Edited by blindude, 04 December 2012 - 11:39 PM.


#39 ultima

ultima

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 69 posts

Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:37 AM

View Postblindude, on 04 December 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

then you are just playing with words man..with valkyries and a crit with arcane power for the whole scepter combo on an enemy thats heavy cced by my team(cause after all its a teamfights game) i do like 10k+ damage probably much much more from what i have seen at testing at the training dummies.
Btw can i ask something irrelevant?
Phoenix uses 3 charges, dt 1 and firegrab another 1 charge despite how many enemies they hit.Is this a bug with arcane power or is it intended
xD think about arcane power with full meteors if they would all crit .. lulz

staffdamage needs a lil bit more damagebuff especially autoattack and the earthskills (longer cripple, more dps)...

Edited by ultima, 05 December 2012 - 12:38 AM.


#40 DataPhreak

DataPhreak

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 42 posts

Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:53 AM

View Postultima, on 05 December 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

xD think about arcane power with full meteors if they would all crit .. lulz

staffdamage needs a lil bit more damagebuff especially autoattack and the earthskills (longer cripple, more dps)...

Doesn't need a damage buff, needs casttime reduction.

#41 ultima

ultima

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 69 posts

Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:00 PM

View PostDataPhreak, on 05 December 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

Doesn't need a damage buff, needs casttime reduction.
yes which is also indirectly a damage buff

#42 Reisa

Reisa

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 59 posts

Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:09 PM

View Postblindude, on 04 December 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

Btw can i ask something irrelevant?
Phoenix uses 3 charges, dt 1 and firegrab another 1 charge despite how many enemies they hit.Is this a bug with arcane power or is it intended

Arcane Power activates anytime there's a damage packet.  That means, certain attunements use one of the charges if you have Elemental Attunement trait.

Several skills also have multiple ways of damage--such as one for a direct blast and one for an AoE.  It's highly inconsistent, though.  For example, chain lightning staff auto attack eats up one charge per attack (meaning possibly up to 15 crits by using it five times).  I believe staff auto attack eats up two charges (one for direct damage, other for the AoE).

Oh, and any attack that pulses damage--like Lava Font--eats up an Arcane Power charge each tick.

#43 blindude

blindude

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1142 posts

Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:20 PM

View PostReisa, on 05 December 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

Arcane Power activates anytime there's a damage packet.  That means, certain attunements use one of the charges if you have Elemental Attunement trait.

Several skills also have multiple ways of damage--such as one for a direct blast and one for an AoE.  It's highly inconsistent, though.  For example, chain lightning staff auto attack eats up one charge per attack (meaning possibly up to 15 crits by using it five times).  I believe staff auto attack eats up two charges (one for direct damage, other for the AoE).

Oh, and any attack that pulses damage--like Lava Font--eats up an Arcane Power charge each tick.
yeah ive noticed that.
Actually you can blind 15 times while also critting if you use it with staff air autoattack and elemental surge which seemed as a bug to me.Not to mention the 15 sec of chill or massive burning or even 5 sec immobilise that you can get.
From all the effects of elemental surge only the immobilise is not stacking which could be also a bug..
I hope they dont notcie anytime soon

#44 Varun

Varun

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 53 posts

Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:29 PM

View Postultima, on 05 December 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

xD think about arcane power with full meteors if they would all crit .. lulz

staffdamage needs a lil bit more damagebuff especially autoattack and the earthskills (longer cripple, more dps)...

I think it was like that in beta at one point, if I remember right. Was pretty lulz idd. Remember standing just outside the window at the clocktower destroying an entire group with meteor + arcane power and glass cannon build (just fer giggles). There are some videos floating around of it. Don't think AP had charges then, just made all your spells crit for X seconds.

I find my ele to be in a good spot right now tbh, I tremendously enjoy playing D/D and S/D and think they're sold short sometimes. What I do find, is that we're still being pigeonholed into certain builds far too much (usually support in sPvP).

Edited by Varun, 05 December 2012 - 10:32 PM.


#45 BorzE

BorzE

    Fahrar Cub

  • New Members
  • 14 posts

Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:37 PM

View Postblindude, on 05 December 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

yeah ive noticed that.
Actually you can blind 15 times while also critting if you use it with staff air autoattack and elemental surge which seemed as a bug to me.Not to mention the 15 sec of chill or massive burning or even 5 sec immobilise that you can get.
From all the effects of elemental surge only the immobilise is not stacking which could be also a bug..
I hope they dont notcie anytime soon
Oh Teapot started a second account. :P

#46 paolot

paolot

    Fahrar Cub

  • New Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:37 PM

View PostVarun, on 05 December 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

I find my ele to be in a good spot right now tbh, I tremendously enjoy playing D/D and S/D and think they're sold short sometimes.

This! The sky is not falling chicken littles!

#47 Yagamy09

Yagamy09

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 14 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:01 PM

View Postshaolinwind, on 04 December 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:


We were trolled bros. Don't you wonder why all these non-ele players come and try to comfort us on the ele boards?

im only playing ele in paid tournaments but hey u probably have more experience than me right .. i guess i just play against bad ppl xD  ele is freaking bad and stuff  u're right lets all reroll thief yeyeye


brb rerolling thief i guess

View PostVarun, on 05 December 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:


I find my ele to be in a good spot right now tbh, I tremendously enjoy playing D/D and S/D and think they're sold short sometimes. What I do find, is that we're still being pigeonholed into certain builds far too much (usually support in sPvP).

its just because of how the class was made, i mean ele was made for support xD even if u play damage builds like s/d or d/d u still have spells like heals aoe, dispels, boons when u switch attunement and stuff that make the class kinda a support in pvp  thats why full glass cannon ele wont work in tpvp

#48 blindude

blindude

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1142 posts

Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:02 AM

^I think he is playing that op bunker s/d build :)
Btw i dont know many classes that work with full glass canon builds in tpvp anyway so who cares.But on the other hand saying the class is only made for support is not an excuse for the huge lack of good different builds.

Edited by blindude, 07 December 2012 - 12:02 AM.


#49 Reisa

Reisa

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 59 posts

Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:37 AM

View Postblindude, on 07 December 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

^I think he is playing that op bunker s/d build :)
Btw i dont know many classes that work with full glass canon builds in tpvp anyway so who cares.But on the other hand saying the class is only made for support is not an excuse for the huge lack of good different builds.

Thief and Mesmer traditionally go full glass cannon in everything, and are generally considered to be the two most OP classes.  Coincidence?

I believe Guardian can as well, with varying degrees of success, due to their inherent hardiness.  Of course, Guardians can pretty much do everything anyway.

#50 blindude

blindude

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1142 posts

Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:12 AM

View PostReisa, on 07 December 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

Thief and Mesmer traditionally go full glass cannon in everything, and are generally considered to be the two most OP classes.  Coincidence?

I believe Guardian can as well, with varying degrees of success, due to their inherent hardiness.  Of course, Guardians can pretty much do everything anyway.
i never seen a guardian glass canon.I also never said that i dont know ANY class that goes full glass too :P

#51 Featherman

Featherman

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1028 posts
  • Location:Frolicking in Kalos

Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:28 AM

I wouldn't say that Guardians can be full glass cannon, but they're a top contender for being able to produce high sustained DPS with semi-tanky builds. Eles can accomplish comething similar with health upkeep and cleansing. I'm not sure how to compare that with the damage output and general safety of full glass cannon Thieves and Mesmers, especially since they can support their team in many different ways.

This again brings up the problem with eles and their squishiness. Unlike Thieves and Mesmers, to even be useful for team fights we need to rely on healing and cleasing. Otherwise we'd be focused down in an instant. Rather than a facet of the profession it's becoming sort of a crutch.

#52 blindude

blindude

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1142 posts

Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:15 AM

View PostFeatherman, on 07 December 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:

I wouldn't say that Guardians can be full glass cannon, but they're a top contender for being able to produce high sustained DPS with semi-tanky builds. Eles can accomplish comething similar with health upkeep and cleansing. I'm not sure how to compare that with the damage output and general safety of full glass cannon Thieves and Mesmers, especially since they can support their team in many different ways.

This again brings up the problem with eles and their squishiness. Unlike Thieves and Mesmers, to even be useful for team fights we need to rely on healing and cleasing. Otherwise we'd be focused down in an instant. Rather than a facet of the profession it's becoming sort of a crutch.
But dont forget that every time you use your heals (for your benefit)you also heal your teammates .My (non bunker) build can heal them 4 times (with evasive arcana and s/d).Its teamfights that matter here and not individual performance in 1vs1.I really think you underestimate the  natural team support that comes with ele in most builds not only pure support focused.

Edited by blindude, 07 December 2012 - 03:18 AM.


#53 Featherman

Featherman

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1028 posts
  • Location:Frolicking in Kalos

Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:23 AM

View Postblindude, on 07 December 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

But dont forget that every time you use your heals (for your benefit)you also heal your teammates .My (non bunker) build can heal them 4 times (with evasive arcana and s/d).Its teamfights that matter here and not individual performance in 1vs1.I really think you underestimate the  natural team support that comes with ele in most builds not only pure support focused.
To get those heals you need to spec into them. To make team support matter you need to lean on them.

Edited by Featherman, 07 December 2012 - 03:31 AM.


#54 Mitch

Mitch

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 70 posts

Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:15 AM

View PostFeatherman, on 07 December 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

To get those heals you need to spec into them. To make team support matter you need to lean on them.

Not really, Healing Ripple and Evasive Arcana are the only ones that require speccing into, and Healing Ripple is a given as every Ele build that gets played has at least 20 points in Water Magic anyway, the other 2 heals are weapon skills, even d/d gives you 2 AoE heals on water attunement. You don't really have to lean on your support abilities as theyre usually side effects of your own abilities/traits, you probably do rely on them for viability but maybe if Fire and Earth traits wouldn't suck so bad this would be different.

#55 Featherman

Featherman

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1028 posts
  • Location:Frolicking in Kalos

Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:33 AM

View PostMitch, on 07 December 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

Not really, Healing Ripple and Evasive Arcana are the only ones that require speccing into, and Healing Ripple is a given as every Ele build that gets played has at least 20 points in Water Magic anyway, the other 2 heals are weapon skills, even d/d gives you 2 AoE heals on water attunement. You don't really have to lean on your support abilities as theyre usually side effects of your own abilities/traits, you probably do rely on them for viability but maybe if Fire and Earth traits wouldn't suck so bad this would be different.
It's a bit misleading to call those abilities side-effects, especially if the designers were taking this class seriously at all (although this is questionable). How about a feature that we eles would have to pay for no matter what our build? If we had higher hp and armor, the heals from our water attunement spells would make us downright op. But since we're balanced such that our heals are taken into consideration, our health and armor take a huge hit. My point is that because of this we're a bit forced to rely on defensive stats and traits to offset initial lack of armor and health to make meaningful contributions in team fights, and we're balanced such that we have to use constant heals in order to achieve survivability comparable to other classes..

And I agree with the traits. We use what's now the standard bunker trait spread, even with offenseive D/D, because everything else is some variation of suck. But that's just one contributing factor to our deep pigeonhole.

Edited by Featherman, 07 December 2012 - 12:25 PM.


#56 dynia666

dynia666

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 138 posts

Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:49 AM

View PostLucLucLuc, on 01 December 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Man it's just... Why is it so hard to leave a class alone (T▽T)

Why you guys don't leave thief alone ? This class is easy to couner if you know how you play ... if all of you play only other glass cannons with out tou any vitality its your own falt you get down fast .... I have 0 problems to take down any thief with guardian.

View PostMr_Original, on 01 December 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

Why are glass cannon thieves even allowed to complain about balance?

O rly ? try bunker/healer guardian to play ... That classs is rly op now. What you get by bunker guardian ?:

-God mode in 1v1 (while still can kill your glass cannon like a toy thiefs die easy too)
-Good dmg
-Insane healing
-insane def
-insane ulti
-ton of bufs etc

Edited by dynia666, 07 December 2012 - 11:49 AM.


#57 lmaonade

lmaonade

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1122 posts
  • Location:That one place with the thing
  • Guild Tag:[NGE]
  • Server:Crystal Desert

Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:55 AM

View PostDataPhreak, on 02 December 2012 - 03:53 AM, said:

DD has been nerfed, HS has been nerfed, Death Blossom has been nerfed, CnD has been nerfed, Cluster Bomb has been nerfed, Pistol Whip has been nerfed, Tactical Strike has been nerfed. Literally every weapon has been nerfed over the last 3 patches. Forget about stealth? Nah, bro. And you're saying I didn't watch 1 ele tank 10 people at once (Post 11/15 I might add...)? yeah, I did. there's at least 3 eles on maguma i've seen do this.



I use all my skills constantly, both on sbow and dagger/dagger, as well as my utilities, and I DON'T play a 3 shot kill build. I don't think that that was the point of the theif in the first place. The problem is that the nerfs to thief have affected  ALL builds, and now the only viable spec is glass simply because theif can't put out enough damage if they aren't pumping power/crit/critdmg. ANET has pidgeonholed thiefs into a pure DPS class with only 1 viable weapon combo.

it's not even that, the initiative system is a complete failure, they designed the game to be based around attrition warfare, then they stick this in and because of it the thief will inevitably be nerfed over and over again so long as initiative exists in this state.

but that's a discussion for the thief board.

Edited by lmaonade, 07 December 2012 - 11:56 AM.


#58 Mitch

Mitch

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 70 posts

Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:20 PM

View PostFeatherman, on 07 December 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

It's a bit misleading to call those abilities side-effects, especially if the designers were taking this class seriously at all (although this is questionable). How about a feature that we eles would have to pay for no matter what our build? If we had higher hp and armor, the heals from our water attunement spells would make us downright op. But since we're balanced such that our heals are taken into consideration, our health and armor take a huge hit. My point is that because of this we're a bit forced to rely on defensive stats and traits to offset initial lack of armor and health to make meaningful contributions in team fights, and we're balanced such that we have to use constant heals in order to achieve.

Meh I don't think it's so bad, sure with a pure GC build you will fall over when there's a moderately strong breeze in your general direction, but quite honestly the elementalist weapon and utility skills dont lean themselves to such a build anyway, a lot of skills require you to go into the fray and this means you will take some damage.

Even if our fire/earth traits wouldn't suck, I don't think a glass cannon build will work, compared to thieves and mesmers we simply lack the tools to set up 1 hit combos and the tools to survive for more than half a second should the situation go south. Don't get me wrong, Mistform is godlike and Arcane Shield (including the one from the trait) are great defensive spells, but that's where it stops, outside of using a focus or an earth shield there's not much that allows you to survive a skirmish other than being able to actually take a hit due to toughness aqcuired primarily from gear.

I really like the Ele playing style that forces you to build a bit more tanky and allows you to stay in the thick of battle for a good while, while still dishing out more than decent damage and providing a lot of utility and support in the mean time.

Compared to the Elementalist playstyle in GW1, GW2 Eles are a breath of fresh air, sure there's some issues here and there and the amount of viable builds (weak fire and to a lesser extent earth trait lines, focus being pretty much complete shit, weapon spells being for the most part mediocre at best) could be higher, but the attunement system is what defines elementalists and makes them (one of the) most interesting professions for me personally.

Edited by Mitch, 07 December 2012 - 12:21 PM.


#59 blindude

blindude

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1142 posts

Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:24 PM

I agree about out traits.
Imo if you want to complain about ele this time you might want to do it at the trait department.Our earth and fire traits are a joke for the most part and theres no point getting them even if you go for offensive spec.I really hope they get a good look at those soon.

#60 Mitch

Mitch

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 70 posts

Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:27 PM

View Postblindude, on 07 December 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

I agree about out traits.
Imo if you want to complain about ele this time you might want to do it at the trait department.Our earth and fire traits are a joke for the most part and theres no point getting them even if you go for offensive spec.I really hope they get a good look at those soon.

Well assume they would be on par with other trait lines, would you ever spec less than 20 points into Arcana? I sure as hell wouldn't, it's the only way to make attunement switching have less cooldown and without it you're just waiting for cooldowns a lot.

I'm all for more options in trait lines for Elementalists, but it's gonna take a lot more than simply buffing Fire and Earth Magic.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users