21 replies to this topic

[Vherax]

Hey there,

I've read some of most attended topics on these forums, and none of the dungeon builds seems to use hammer as a weapon. Is there any particular reason? Can someone give me some sort of hammer build? cuz I really love hammers, but I'm bad at creating builds

[Nexdeus]

http://gw2skills.net...7BGBff01DKCDZIA

This is what I use for my Guardian while in dungeons.
Knights armor x3, Power/Vit/Tough x3 , Valk Neck, Valk Earrings (with knights jewels), and knights rings. Hope that helps!

[SpelignErrir]

I wouldn't recommend using glacial heart. A 4 second chill every 45 seconds (that you can't even control) is NOT a good trait. Also, Writ of the Merciful isn't really a good trait to use with an Altruistic Healing hammer build, Writ of Exaltation is better, it makes your symbol much larger, AKA you hit more enemies and get more allies (Means more crits on more enemies, more might stacks and more vigor as well as more application of protection on allies, therefore more healing). And blind exposure is very meh unless you're fighting a huge mob of trash and have renewed justice: this is my build. Same trait spread and skills as Nex's, but different traits selected.

http://gw2skills.net...i9AjwXjXPooDZIA

Soldier's helmet, Berserker's Shoulders, Soldier's chestpiece, Soldier's gauntlets, Knight's legs, and Berserker's boots (Only until I can gather the money to buy an exotic).

Knight Amulet, Knight Rings, Valk Earrings, Cavalier's spineguard with an exquisite emerald jewel.

I have my armor slotted with 5x emerald orbs and 1x beryl orb.

About 2.9k attack and 2.9k armor, 15-16k hp, ~45ish crit chance, I forget my crit damage and can't be bothered to look right now, though I don't have much health. It's not a problem for me, though, I get along just fine. Hammer provides all the healing I need, and if I do get in a sticky situation, I'll spam my virtues (Blinds enemies, gives self Aegis, and heals) then start running out of the heat, while activating renewed focus, then I spam them again if I'm still in trouble. Then Signet of Resolve brings me back to full health. This mostly happens to me in the spider part of Ascalonian Catacombs, though I've only ever done AC, CM, CoF, and CoE.

[Nexdeus]

The reason I chose the healing symbol vs larger symbol in my build was due to always being partnered up with two other Warrior's. I like to keep a constant regen effect on us 3 while we are on the mob. Since the two other warriors are shout warriors, I tend to have fury up the majority of the time, and commonly had a 61% crit rate with them. I have about 3k attack, 3.3k armor, 17k HP.
I do agree with you on the glacial heart though, you could use something like purity, or armor to all allies if you wanna help your team more, but I also use this build for WvW and it seems to trigger often enough to where people get stuck for a few seconds, allowing me to trap them in a ring of warding. How does this help in PVE? It doesn't, I just like to see the ice effect and watch the mob try to slowly move away. (Actually, certain mobs try to chase others, the chilled effect helps them get away, and lets me bind them in place with warding).
I suppose it depends on who you have in your dungeon, and what they are specced to.

[indure]

I use this build for all content, and switch out my utilities for what the situation depends on. Notice that no matter what utilities I choose, signets, shouts, meditations, consecrations, or spirit weapons I can tweak my masters to benefit the utility use. For armor shoot for a mixture of Knights/Valkyrie/Soldier to give you roughly 3k armor, +15k health, +30% crit chance, and +50% crit damage.

Edited by indure, 02 December 2012 - 08:25 PM.

[G L J]

Vherax, on 02 December 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Hey there,

I've read some of most attended topics on these forums, and none of the dungeon builds seems to use hammer as a weapon. Is there any particular reason? Can someone give me some sort of hammer build? cuz I really love hammers, but I'm bad at creating builds

Hammers are amazing in dungeons. They give your melee teammates nearly permanent protection, deal great dps with only two skills, and have a slew of ways to control an enemy or burn their CC immunity.

I go 0/0/30/20/20; Signet of Resolve, "Stand Your Ground!", "Hold the Line!", Shelter, Tome of Courage
~Purity, Retributive Armor, Altruistic Healing
~Writ of Exaltation, Writ of the Merciful
~Master of Consecrations, Absolute Resolve

[Vherax]

G L J, on 02 December 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

Hammers are amazing in dungeons. They give your melee teammates nearly permanent protection, deal great dps with only two skills, and have a slew of ways to control an enemy or burn their CC immunity.

I go 0/0/30/20/20; Signet of Resolve, "Stand Your Ground!", "Hold the Line!", Shelter, Tome of Courage
~Purity, Retributive Armor, Altruistic Healing
~Writ of Exaltation, Writ of the Merciful
~Master of Consecrations, Absolute Resolve

Master of Consecrations? U have 0 consecrations in your build...

[GuanglaiKangyi]

Vherax, on 02 December 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Hey there,

I've read some of most attended topics on these forums, and none of the dungeon builds seems to use hammer as a weapon. Is there any particular reason? Can someone give me some sort of hammer build? cuz I really love hammers, but I'm bad at creating builds

Hammers are bad DPS and the protection boon doesn't really make up for all the healing you will be losing.  That's why most people don't bother.  You're better off using mace or staff if you want to run a defensive guardian, and greatsword or scepter if you want to be offensive.  Going hammer just kinda means you're bad at both.  And that's no fun.

[Vherax]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 02 December 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Hammers are bad DPS and the protection boon doesn't really make up for all the healing you will be losing.  That's why most people don't bother.  You're better off using mace or staff if you want to run a defensive guardian, and greatsword or scepter if you want to be offensive.  Going hammer just kinda means you're bad at both.  And that's no fun.

Great...

U've made me no longer wanna play guardian ;/

[Elysen]

It doesn't matter if Hammer is effective for dungeons or not, but Banish alone makes it worth using. Who doesn't like getting home-runs?

[Jubelas]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 02 December 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Hammers are bad DPS and the protection boon doesn't really make up for all the healing you will be losing.  That's why most people don't bother.  You're better off using mace or staff if you want to run a defensive guardian, and greatsword or scepter if you want to be offensive.  Going hammer just kinda means you're bad at both.  And that's no fun.

You know that protection is the one of the strongest boon in the game right ? And.. healin (regen boon) scale very poorly with gear

[Jubelas]

Vherax, on 02 December 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Hey there,

I've read some of most attended topics on these forums, and none of the dungeon builds seems to use hammer as a weapon. Is there any particular reason? Can someone give me some sort of hammer build? cuz I really love hammers, but I'm bad at creating builds

My hammer supportive build

http://gw2skills.net...ZJyymlLLZWLCGEA

[jpg1]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 02 December 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Hammers are bad DPS and the protection boon doesn't really make up for all the healing you will be losing.  That's why most people don't bother.  You're better off using mace or staff if you want to run a defensive guardian, and greatsword or scepter if you want to be offensive.  Going hammer just kinda means you're bad at both.  And that's no fun.

Disagree. Such an over-generalization.

Depending on how you build the traits it's actually not bad. 100% uptime of Protection is quite handy - and if you trait with Symbols and AH, the Healing isn't that bad. The Blast Finisher is simply awesome and can be combo'd for support amazingly with a Ranger or Elementalist to come up with Water Area Heals. (Though you are correct to point out that the Mace heal ticks is more potent. I won't even bother discussing Staff, as everybody just thinks it's a heal stick paired with Altruistic Healing. Such a frustration.)

[GuanglaiKangyi]

jpg1, on 03 December 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

Disagree. Such an over-generalization.

Depending on how you build the traits it's actually not bad. 100% uptime of Protection is quite handy - and if you trait with Symbols and AH, the Healing isn't that bad. The Blast Finisher is simply awesome and can be combo'd for support amazingly with a Ranger or Elementalist to come up with Water Area Heals. (Though you are correct to point out that the Mace heal ticks is more potent. I won't even bother discussing Staff, as everybody just thinks it's a heal stick paired with Altruistic Healing. Such a frustration.)

In my experience the protection from hammer isn't that good for a number of reasons:

1) You don't need it.  That is, you yourself do not need it.  You lose quite a bit of AH healing potential with hammer compared to mace, GS, scepter, just about anything really.  Most of the time the 33% damage reduction won't offset this.  This isn't really something I can quantify but in my experience I actually live longer using a Berserker's GS than a Knight's Hammer.  The speed of the hits interrupts mobs more often and procs more crit heals.

2) Your allies don't need it.  In dungeons, you're only going to be in melee constantly if you're a warrior or guardian and both can get along fine without the buff.  Otherwise, if you're in melee range you're either already dead or you have some kind of gameplan for keeping yourself alive.

3) Protection really isn't that helpful.  In most dungeons something either kills you instantly or you dodge it.  Protection is only going to be useful against large groups of trash mobs, but in that case not everyone will be in melee range of the same mob.  Moreover, against big mobs like that you want DPS, not defense, because you want to kill those guys as quickly as possible.  Mob not doing damage > mob doing reduced damage.

[jpg1]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 03 December 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

Snip

You're too focused on the aspect of it granting Protection, which isn't its only use. You saying that using it would just amount to being bad both offensively and defensively is just not going to help people who might want to sway away from the usual set. Your personal experience might be terrible with the Hammer but don't jump the gun just like that.

Each weapon serves a player differently than others. Say for example the Staff. Some people treat it merely as a Emergency Heal Stick while others use it offensively which is really something. Both ends work and a good discussion ensues. Let's give the Hammer the same chance is all I'm saying.

It isn't really my favorite weapon, far from it but it has its value. Not for you maybe but it has given the user.

[Serris]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 03 December 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

In my experience the protection from hammer isn't that good for a number of reasons:

1) You don't need it.  That is, you yourself do not need it.  You lose quite a bit of AH healing potential with hammer compared to mace, GS, scepter, just about anything really.  Most of the time the 33% damage reduction won't offset this.  This isn't really something I can quantify but in my experience I actually live longer using a Berserker's GS than a Knight's Hammer.  The speed of the hits interrupts mobs more often and procs more crit heals.

2) Your allies don't need it.  In dungeons, you're only going to be in melee constantly if you're a warrior or guardian and both can get along fine without the buff.  Otherwise, if you're in melee range you're either already dead or you have some kind of gameplan for keeping yourself alive.

3) Protection really isn't that helpful.  In most dungeons something either kills you instantly or you dodge it.  Protection is only going to be useful against large groups of trash mobs, but in that case not everyone will be in melee range of the same mob.  Moreover, against big mobs like that you want DPS, not defense, because you want to kill those guys as quickly as possible.  Mob not doing damage > mob doing reduced damage.

dissing a weapon based on 1 skill.

the hammer is a useful weapon. it has a lot of versatility and hits like a truck.
pro:
low-CD blast finisher
short-cd symbol
lots of control through immobilize , ring of warding and banish.
AoE hits (but a lot of guardian weapons have this)

cons:
slow
melee

you should try it out. look around these forums and the official ones, there are some great hammer builds on here. it does take some skill to land your slow chain though, so give it some practice.

[BlasBlas]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 02 December 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Hammers are bad DPS and the protection boon doesn't really make up for all the healing you will be losing.  That's why most people don't bother.  You're better off using mace or staff if you want to run a defensive guardian, and greatsword or scepter if you want to be offensive.  Going hammer just kinda means you're bad at both.  And that's no fun.

Bad DPS?  DPS is only a good measure if you and your target are doing exactly what dictates for the math to work, I.E. you or your target are never moving.

Might Blow is probably our most damaging Gap Closer and Burst Skill.  Perfect if you are constantly moving which you should be in dungeons, PvP, and WWW.

PvE content you could stand around.

[indure]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 02 December 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Hammers are bad DPS and the protection boon doesn't really make up for all the healing you will be losing.  That's why most people don't bother.  You're better off using mace or staff if you want to run a defensive guardian, and greatsword or scepter if you want to be offensive.  Going hammer just kinda means you're bad at both.  And that's no fun.

Hammer is amazing at DPS, with strong AOE burst second to the GS and comparable overall DPS. It's also one of the best defensive weapons a guardian has with the best CC and the capability to provide infinite Protection. It also provides the most healing procs from AH of any weapon except the staff. True, it is arguably not the highest damage weapon a guardian has or most defensive, but it provides far superior defense compared to the GS and much higher damage output then a mace.

Going Hammer doesn't make you bad at both, but instead provides 90% of the use of both, without having their huge weaknesses. The only real weakness of the hammer is its mobility, which is not that important in dungeons.

[Soothing Vapors]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 02 December 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Hammers are bad DPS

Anyone who thinks this should read Brutaly's guide to see why they're wrong. Or, you know, equip a hammer. Hammers are fine DPS.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

indure, on 03 December 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Hammer is amazing at DPS, with strong AOE burst second to the GS and comparable overall DPS. It's also one of the best defensive weapons a guardian has with the best CC and the capability to provide infinite Protection. It also provides the most healing procs from AH of any weapon except the staff. True, it is arguably not the highest damage weapon a guardian has or most defensive, but it provides far superior defense compared to the GS and much higher damage output then a mace.

Going Hammer doesn't make you bad at both, but instead provides 90% of the use of both, without having their huge weaknesses. The only real weakness of the hammer is its mobility, which is not that important in dungeons.

Soothing Vapors, on 03 December 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

Anyone who thinks this should read Brutaly's guide to see why they're wrong. Or, you know, equip a hammer. Hammers are fine DPS.

Hammer is very low DPS.  Brutaly doesn't know what he's talking about either.  It's harsh but it's true.

Mighty Blow barely hits as much as a single hit from GS auto and takes longer to start up, so its not really "burst", unless you also count auto-attacking with GS as "burst".  Even with traited symbols the auto-attack chain is one of the weakest the guardian has.  Even mace is stronger.

Using hammer for the protection spam is a legitimate tactic.  I don't think it's that useful but I'll accept if people use it for that purpose.  Using it for DPS, on the other hand, probably just means you're not actually looking at the numbers you're putting out.

It's not even a matter of numbers or whatever.  Take a hammer into any zone and see how long it takes you to kill just about anything.  Then use a GS or scepter and marvel at how much faster it is.

[indure]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 03 December 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

Hammer is very low DPS.  Brutaly doesn't know what he's talking about either.  It's harsh but it's true.

Mighty Blow barely hits as much as a single hit from GS auto and takes longer to start up, so its not really "burst", unless you also count auto-attacking with GS as "burst".  Even with traited symbols the auto-attack chain is one of the weakest the guardian has.  Even mace is stronger.

Using hammer for the protection spam is a legitimate tactic.  I don't think it's that useful but I'll accept if people use it for that purpose.  Using it for DPS, on the other hand, probably just means you're not actually looking at the numbers you're putting out.

I would really like to see your numbers. I can hit easy 3- 3.5k crits with Mighty Blow and I'm not specced for Radiant Power, Fiery Wrath (+20% damage increase), or use Berseker armor. With those traits+armor I can possibly hit 4.4k MB's.  Are you saying your greatsword auto-attacks crit between 3-4k?

GuanglaiKangyi, on 03 December 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

It's not even a matter of numbers or whatever.  Take a hammer into any zone and see how long it takes you to kill just about anything.  Then use a GS or scepter and marvel at how much faster it is.

I've use each extensively and the scepter is on par with the hammer single target and is laughable when comparing AOE damage and functionality. Its true that the GS time to kill (TTK) is much higher, but that is because the average mob has health equivalent to the GS's burst. If you're attacking an elite with much higher health, the hammer and GS have a similar TTK.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

indure, on 03 December 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

I would really like to see your numbers. I can hit easy 3- 3.5k crits with Mighty Blow and I'm not specced for Radiant Power, Fiery Wrath (+20% damage increase), or use Berseker armor. With those traits+armor I can possibly hit 4.4k MB's.  Are you saying your greatsword auto-attacks crit between 3-4k?



I've use each extensively and the scepter is on par with the hammer single target and is laughable when comparing AOE damage and functionality. Its true that the GS time to kill (TTK) is much higher, but that is because the average mob has health equivalent to the GS's burst. If you're attacking an elite with much higher health, the hammer and GS have a similar TTK.

Well I stand corrected I guess.  Mighty Blow does hit slightly higher than the GS third swing per hit.  That doesn't really change the overall DPS comparison though.