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Dungeon Concept - Multiple groups (A better alternative to traditional raids?)


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#1 Parlourbeatflex

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:13 PM

NOTE; All credit for the inspiration on this idea goes to Moon Electric (http://www.guildwars...layer-dungeons/) in which spurred me on to develop the idea in a different format.
Also, Id like to make clear that I have little grasp over the very detailed lore of GW2 and this post is intended for outlining mechanics and design descisions for implementation rather than the finished product style suggestions I have seen from some rather well thought out posts.

New Dungeon Concept - Designed for larger groups of players, but rather than raid style encounters the dungeon is based around multiple groups of 5. The idea behind this concept is to create a challenge that requires extremely organised efforts on a larger scale than normal dungeons, without promoting zerg style play or elitist gear mindsets.

Before I get into the example there would be a mechanic needed for the idea to work smoothly, namely a group leader or something in a similar style, which would be quite simple to implement. This is literally for ease of path selection when inside a dungeon.

So here goes....

Example Dungeon - Crystal Caverns (3 group dungeon)

Dungeon starts in typical main repair room with all groups together and each group would pick a path. The path choosing dialogue would have to be selectable only by the group leader.

Path 1 - Discover the Secret of the Crystal Core
Path 2 - Kill the Crystal Guardian
Path 3 - Find the lost VIP scholar and get him out of the cavern

It would be important to implement some kind of phasing with this bit, so that groups cant pile down one path or split unevenly.
All paths begin in a similar style to normal dungeons, each group tackling a introductary encounter with trash mobs (literally one or two just so the groups dont fragment in time taken to run to next part) which leads to a mini boss...

First Group Cross over encounter.

The 3 mini bosses from each path are interconnected with each other. For the sake of the example a scenerio I have in mind is a structure built into the cavern that has 3 floors. Each room has an alarm system that floods add mobs into the floors. Each floor has a control panel which needs to be channeled in order to turn off the alarm, however the twist is the panels connect to a different floor.
The mini boss will actively try to attack and interupt the player channeled and will obviously take a group strategy to deal with which presents an interesting challenge for the whole group.
Once a mini boss is downed trash mobs flood the same room (the panel however locks out from player control and behaves as though players are interacting within the room that interconnects) until everyone else has completed there own mini boss, making the chest spawn. This is just so groups dont fragment from each other while giving the quicker groups something to do while waiting (simple concept that could be developed so its more fun than trash grinding).

After the mini boss, the groups come across a massive jumping puzzle to navigate... While each path is independant from each other they interlink in a number of ways;

  - Visually speaking, the groups are able to see each other navigating there portion  of the puzzle.
   - Sections of the puzzle require groups to hold gates open for each other, or something similar.
   - Would include optional puzzles that can be completed in order to unlock shortcuts for another group.
   - Include trash mobs that a quicker group might be able to clear before a slower one, to promote further teamwork. Mobs that require another group to range kill it so another group can advance and ideas like that.

After the puzzle the groups make their way through seperate paths and encounters, one group randomly encounters a bonus event - the other groups progress until a seemingly locked gate in which a panel from each path needs to be pressed to progress.

The bonus event is a simple mini boss that can be taken down. While the group can decide to skip it to go on and press the panel, if they decide to tackle the bonus event new events would then kick off for the other groups at the gate.

Once all mini bosses are taken down a reward chest is granted for all groups.

while the dungeon could include many more examples of paths crossing and interacting with each other im gonna save some time and writing here, lets say after another boss and each group facing events that make sense within the path objective (group 1 learns that the guardian holds the secret to the crystal core, group 2 learns of the guardians whereabouts and group 3 grabs the VIP and learns that the only way out is something called the crystal gate)... At the end of the dungeon the paths all converge on eachother and once again the group is all together. For example the groups are faced with the crystal gate.

Full Group Encounter FInal Boss.

To open the gate the groups must summon the crystal guardian. there are 5 control panels surronding the gate which players must channel together for 5 mins. Once a panel is interacted with mobs begin to spawn that try and attack players using panels and a security golem comes online in which must be kept away from the panels due to its AOE that pulses surronding the golem.
The idea is to have a group assigned to the panels while another defends them, and the final group keeping the golem away from the panels. The panels timers only go down when all are pressed together.
Once all the panels have been channelled for 5 mins, the crystal guardian comes through the gate and acts like a big open world boss. While adds are less frequent the panels still need to be channeled in order to de-buff the guardians invunerability.. The concept now is to have one group with the panels while dealing with adds themselves (slightly more challenging than before) while 2 groups deal with the guardian.
The guardian itself has a mechanic that is based on his two hands, one holding a magic shield that provides itself with protection and regen while the other holding a sword that provides the boss with retaliation and a interruptable mass knockback skill. Each must be dpsed until the items 'break' and then the guardian himself is targetable, after a certain amount of health is gone the guardian uses crystals to repair the items and the cycle begins again.
You could even add a optional mechanic to delay or interrupt the repair process, if the boss wasnt varied enough.

Once the boss is downed the crystal gate opens, revealing a tresuary with a huge 3 reward cheats inside! Allowing players to open each chest for extra loot chances. The NPCs affliated with each path would then wrap up the objectives with a quick dialogue or two and the dungeon would be complete, earning slightly more gold, karma and influence than any normal dungeon

In conclusion I believe if this was implemented right, it would be the answer to alot of big PVE guilds problems. Once an intial dungeon is implemented, similar ones could expand upon the idea in the future. Of course the learning difficulty is gonna be extremely high as these encounters might become very complicated, but the dungeons are supposed to be for guild like groups that have internal community for newbies to learn from rather than PUGed groups. And as the old argument about people missing out on content might also be a issue, the dungeon could be designed so it scales, therefore a PUG group of 5 could complete it (less rewards and chests though).

I do not think that any of the dungeons currently in game would perform well within the multiple group structure, unless a master dungeon mode was introduced that dramtically altered the dungeons layout and boss mechanics (and i think even then such an idea would be more suitable to just the one group of 5 as per usual),

Tell me what you think guys and feel free to add any suggestions for extra mechanics or ideas that would include paths affecting each other and encounters that required groups to split roles rather than zerg it out like the open world boss encounters.

#2 Levistis

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:41 PM

Great idea, I recommend that you post this onto the main forums under suggestions, or give someone else permission to. Awesome concept and great alternative to a raid.

#3 Kurosov

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:44 PM

They had something similar in gw1. The Deep.

A 12 man party entered the dungeon and split up to do different parts. The mechanics weren't quite the same because of game restrictions but with the way WvW works that shouldn't be an issue in gw2.

#4 matsif

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:31 PM

the deep and urgoz's warren in GW1 factions were similar to this.

I'd be all for it in general as I really enjoyed those instances in GW1.  Thought that they were really well done.  Please bring them back anet.




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