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Longbow + S/H (or S/S) Banner/Condition/Support Might Stacking Build


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#1 Nonlinear

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:29 PM

TLDR Version:
  • Good for DEs/AOE/Support
  • Big AOE Might Stacks
  • Requires Banner Management (1 Banner)
  • Condition Damage is main stat (both weapon sets benefit), Carrion/(Koda/Orr/Nightmare)/Rampager.  Flexible secondary stats.
  • High Adrenaline Gain for Longbow Burst spam
  • Rotation: Longbow Burst -> Longbow 3 -> Banner 5.  Repeat every 10 seconds (CD)
  • 6 to 12 AOE might stacks per rotation (initial Banner drop gives 3, For Great Justice gives 3).  Can maintain 15 AOE might stacks without Boon Duration runes (recommend Boon Duration runes for max might) while still doing DPS.
  • MH Sword for Bleeds, Leap (can leap into your own field for a Fire Shield), and Snare
  • OH Sword for more bleed stacks
  • OH Horn + Banner for 100% Swiftness Uptime (Excellent on escort events)
  • Recommend 20% crit damage (via Jewels/Trinket) if you plan on using gear with a lot of precision
Link to Build



Traits:
  • 20 Arms (Sword/Bleed)
  • 20 Tactics (Banner CD, Shout or Warhorn CD and 20% Boon Duration)
  • 30 Discipline (Adrenaline gain, Burst cost reduction and 30% crit damage)
Skills:
  • Healing Skill - Healing Surge (Optional playstyle choice.  I like to use a stage 3 heal before the Longbow Burst or get a smaller heal while getting max Adrenaline for Longbow Burst.  You may not like this heal since this build isn't at 100% adrenaline 100% of the time)
  • Utility Skill 1: Banner of Strength (adds both power and condition damage)
  • Utility Skill 2: For Great Justice (Fury and Might stacks)
  • Utility Skill 3: Shake it Off (Optional playstyle choice.  I like it for the condition removal and stun break but you can use whatever you'd like).
  • Elite Skill: Signet of Rage (for more adrenaline)
----------

Good for grinding DEs and potentially for WvW.  Uses warrior's only field, a large fire field that does burning.  Requires banner management (1 banner), you always want to be in your fire field and you need the banner near you.  Get good at picking it up and putting it down a lot with either 5 (for might/blast) or ~.  Personaly I mouse turn so I made A/D alternates for skill 4 and 5 and made weapon swap/drop banner to Shift+E so all my banner stuff is close, I can hit F then D to pick up the blast or F then Shift+E to drop it if there is no field.  4/5 as Q/E instead of A/D would work very well with Shift+E.

Main stat is condition damage, both weapon sets benefit from it but you will also benefit from some power/crit (Sword and Longbow 1) and the might will help both your power and your condition damage.  Recommend getting crit damage to 20%+ for 200% crits on longbow 1 and sword skills.

Get your adrenaline up, use For Great Justice, use Longbow Burst to put down your only fire field, follow it up with Longbow 3 for blast finisher and 3 might stacks, drop your banner in the field for another blast and 3 more might stacks, pick up the banner again and use Banner 5 to plant it again for another blast and 3 more might stacks.  This can all be done in the same fire field.  If possible save your heal skill for when your adrenaline is full before you use the longbow burst (can also use a different heal if you prefer).  Your field is huge and you can kite around inside of it while still being able to get close to your banner when you need to plant it.  

Banner 5, Longbow 3 and Longbow Burst are all on 10 second CD, during the 10 seconds you want to build as much adrenaline as possible for your Longbow burst, lay it down again then follow it up with Longbow 3 for might blast then pick up banner and put it down with 5 for another might blast.  Use For Great Justice whenever it comes off CD.  Can easily keep up 15 stacks of might with no condition duration runes, with Water x2, Monk x2 and Fire x2 in the mists I could keep over 20 stacks, occasionally 25, and this is with 1/3rd of the duration on the runes nerfed.  Decreased Banner CD trait keeps the banner up until a few seconds short of the CD so you can do this pretty much forever.   These are AOE might stacks that will be applied to allies.

Switch to Sword/Sword or Sword/Horn for bleeding (Sword 1 and 4), mobility (Sword 2) and a snare (Sword 3).  Can put a sword in the offhand for more DPS through higher bleed stacks (Sword 4) and you get a block (Sword 5).

I prefer horn in a zerg and DEs due to the swiftness.  It also gives you Vigor and added condition removal (even more with Tactics IX - Quick Breathing instead of shout CD if you want more support).  Use Horn 4 then pick up your banner and hit 3 for two applications of AOE swiftness (really good to speed up NPCs and allies in DEs).  Quickly drop the banner, use Horn 4 and then pick it up again and use Banner 3 again.  Get used to doing this it makes events with NPCs go faster.  You can do some fun stuff like lay down fire field with Longbow Burst then switch to sword and use 2 to Leap in and get a fire shield.

Edited by Nonlinear, 03 December 2012 - 09:45 PM.


#2 Nonlinear

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:08 PM

Moved video to top...

Edited by Nonlinear, 03 December 2012 - 09:44 PM.


#3 Brand

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:09 PM

Frankly I think this build works much better as support, using hammer and banner of tactics, you get 2 shout heals, regen from the banner, 3 blast finishers, and you become tanky, meaning you can stay alive in melee to splash your might and benefit your team a lot.

But a damage based build focused on conditions is a pretty neat take on it.

Edited by Brand, 03 December 2012 - 10:10 PM.


#4 Nonlinear

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:05 PM

My set is going to be 6pc Koda (cond/prec/tough) and weapons, berserker neck, condition back and 4 carrion accessories w/ ruby jewels to boost crit damage to 200% and add some power.  I don't want to juggle my stats and lower my damage to try and add healing.

#5 Brand

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:27 PM

*Nod* Generally the Hammer/LB build just synergizes better, and your damage doesn't actually get too bad either. Certainly better than a full Cleric's Mace/Shield set in terms of damage.

Off topic: While I'm here, I also posted a question to you on my thread, would like your opinion if you get time.

#6 Nonlinear

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:46 AM

i don't agree that it necessarily synergizes better not every support build requires shout healing.  I use FGJ as part of the rotation for might and adrenaline and crit I don't care about adding a 1k heal to it I figure double digit AOE might stacks, swiftness and condition removal (even more if you trait horn instead of shout CD reduction) is enough support without sacrificing DPS.

#7 Nonlinear

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:52 PM

If you want to add more support I would take ten points from Arms and add regen through Inspiring Banners.

If you do that you provide AOE:

Might (15 stacks without extra boon duration runes)
Swiftness (through horn 4 + Banner 3)
Regen (Inspiring Banners)
Condition Removal (trait the warhorn instead of CD reduction on shouts)

You also have a nice leap finisher and a cripple with sword 2 and sword 3 as well as an immobalize with sword's burst skill.  Regen only gets 12.5% of your healing power applied to it anyway so I see it as a nice way to gain a trickle of hp and at 12.5% scaling it's not worth sacrificing stats to boost it.

Edited by Nonlinear, 05 December 2012 - 09:56 PM.


#8 Nonlinear

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

And if you want to use hammer I would recommend simply moving the 20 points in Arms to 20 points in Defense and take X - Merciless Hammer to reduce the CD on hammer skills as well take I - Embrace the Pain to gain more adrenaline and change the Grandmaster Discipline talent to XI - Quick Bursts to get CD reduction on the bow fire field and the hammer blast burst skills.

Not all that hot on it because I perceive longbow as more of a condition weapon (which is why I think it pairs better with swords than hammer) and hammer as a direct damage weapon.  I'd probably gear for direct damage instead of condition damage with Hammer/LB since Dual Shot and Arcing Arrow are DD skills and don't benefit from condition damage.

Edited by Nonlinear, 05 December 2012 - 10:05 PM.


#9 Ottoman

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:21 AM

What if you were to use Hammer as main dmg dealer and just switch out LB for the aoe might stacking? Spec more out of condition dmg and more direct? Doable?

EDIT: Nvm, doesnt seem very viable since your LB burst comes off CD so quick and you gotta start rotation again. Second weapon set is more shits n giggs I guess.

Edited by Ottoman, 06 December 2012 - 03:24 AM.


#10 Brand

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:31 AM

View PostOttoman, on 06 December 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

What if you were to use Hammer as main dmg dealer and just switch out LB for the aoe might stacking? Spec more out of condition dmg and more direct? Doable?

EDIT: Nvm, doesnt seem very viable since your LB burst comes off CD so quick and you gotta start rotation again. Second weapon set is more shits n giggs I guess.
This is exactly the type of build I was talking about, it's doable and viable. You need to use Embrace the pain and Inspiring shouts, works best while also using VS and cleric's gear. Basically you become a tanky might supporter with massive heals.

#11 Ottoman

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:37 PM

View PostBrand, on 06 December 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

This is exactly the type of build I was talking about, it's doable and viable. You need to use Embrace the pain and Inspiring shouts, works best while also using VS and cleric's gear. Basically you become a tanky might supporter with massive heals.

How would you keep might stacks up with a hammer though? I know your Sonic Boon build suits the playstyle were talking about, however I prefer some hammer time. :P

#12 Brand

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:15 PM

View PostOttoman, on 06 December 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

How would you keep might stacks up with a hammer though? I know your Sonic Boon build suits the playstyle were talking about, however I prefer some hammer time. :P
This isn't the place to talk about it. I'm going to see if Sithicus will put up the build in his thread, if not I'll PM you. If he does put it up, I'll PM you that he did.

#13 Ottoman

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:57 PM

View PostBrand, on 06 December 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

This isn't the place to talk about it. I'm going to see if Sithicus will put up the build in his thread, if not I'll PM you. If he does put it up, I'll PM you that he did.

Rightio - no need to derail. I look forward to what you have to say. :D

#14 Nonlinear

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 05:41 PM

View PostOttoman, on 06 December 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

What if you were to use Hammer as main dmg dealer and just switch out LB for the aoe might stacking? Spec more out of condition dmg and more direct? Doable?

EDIT: Nvm, doesnt seem very viable since your LB burst comes off CD so quick and you gotta start rotation again. Second weapon set is more shits n giggs I guess.
It's easily doable without heal gear or getting shout heals.

I've been running with a hammer/longbow as 20 Defense, 30 tactics, 20 discipline and having lots of fun with it.  I care more about finishing fields than high might stacks but you can blast them with Longbow Burst for a fire field, then Hammer burst and banner bursts and FGJ for more.  Groups with mesmers are a blast because you blast out chaos armor.  You can use either heal shouts (if you have +heal) or heal banners with the spec I'm using but like Brand says (and the numerical threads) if you want to shout you need +heal.  

I am finding that 3k armor (I have 1938 toughness atm) gives me enough mitigation so my heal signet and banner regen keep me up.  I ran a build with only 20 in defense (30 in discipline) and it was noticeably harder to keep my health up without the extra 100 toughness and another source of incoming hp.

A general rule of thumb seems to be that if you want to specialize in something you should aim for at least 1,850 to 1,900 of whatever your main stat is (besides +heal, doesn't apply to healing, nobody should have +1,400 healing in a dungeon).  1,850+ power is min for a Glass Cannon, DPS orientated build, 1,850+ precision for a crit orientated build, 1,850+ if you want to tank.  This threshold seems to be the same for all classes and the four major stats.

Here is a link and writeup to the Hammer/Longbow banner build I've been toying with.  Still saving up for runes (I want 5x Scholar plus 1x Divinity because my set is 6 pc soldiers and it goes with pretty much anything and I only have to change my trinkets to refocus).

Dungeon Hammer/Longbow Build

Build up adrenaline and use Earthshaker or Combustive Shot.  Combustive Shot will put down a Fire Field, you can Earthshaker into it to combo.  The more people in the group dropping fields the more fun you will have.  Use Hammer 2 to keep up weakness (you can extend condition duration to keep it up 100%) Hammer 3 snares, Hammer 4 pushes away (not great for AOE) and hammer 5 knocks down (my favorite).  Bow is good when you need to dodge away from huge burst, want to put a field (burst skill), or you want to blind your target with Longbow 4.

Healing signet + banner provides enough passive regen to forgo healing gear.  I use 6 piece solderis (POW/tough/vit), and defender backpack with a jewel for 3% crit damage (either rampage or zerk), zerk neck, knights weapons, rings, one knight earring and a Karka shell accessory with a zerk jewel.  I have zerk jewels in my other accessorie slots to keep my crit damage near 50%.  I am saving up for Scholar Runes x5 and one Divinity Rune.  

Still deciding on Sigil.  Crit is not a focus on this build so you can probbaly ignore chance on critical sigils.
You want 20 points in Defense for Hammer CD reduction, first talent you can use whatever you feel like, either 5% more damage agaisnt weakened foes, adrenaline on hit or toughness on debuff if you want more survival.  30 in tactics for banner CD, shout CD (or auto shake it off if you want to remove another condition) and Inspriring Battke Standard for the banner regen.

Edited by Nonlinear, 08 December 2012 - 05:41 PM.


#15 Nonlinear

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 05:46 PM

For Hammer/LB, It seems that the way the traits are set up, you can take Hammer CD reduction and more healing/tough or you can take Hammer CD reduction and shave 2 seconds off your Burst skills and more crit damage for more DPS.  There aren't enough points to get CD on Hammer, healing and CD on hammer.  I prefer the healing/toughness if my goal is be more tankish.

#16 Ottoman

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:41 AM

Interesting write-up with the hammer... I will definately give it a try since I have most of the gear you mentioned already. I just love me some PvE hammer bonking action (despite how wrong that sounds)

Is banner regen effected by +healing?

#17 Nonlinear

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:44 PM

Yes, regen gets 12.5% of your healing, not enough to make it worth stacking +heal imo.  

Good news is you don't need any healing gear if you have healing signet, banner regen and the 15 point regen talent in defense for Adrenal Health.  Healing signet gets a paltry 3.25% of your healing, totally not worth it there either.

I went with Battle sigil on my longbow for 3 stacks of might on swap, since you are swapping every 5 seconds (there is an internal CD) it is basically 6 stacks of perma-might.

I went with Dolyak runes for more defense and then switched my trinkets to berzerkers, karka shell, and a knight ring (with a ruby jewel).  I also use knight Hammer and knight bow.  

The reason I went with Dolyak is because you get a flat 30 hp/sec at lvl 80 with 6 piece bonus (something like 27 hp/sec in AC).  It doesn't seem like much, but since +heal on heal signet is negligible at 3.25% and adrenal heal is not effected by healing power it's like adding 30 healing power to your banner regen.  30 healing on banner regen is equivalent to 240 healing for a single rune:

X * 12.5% = 30
X = 30/.125 = 240

Start with Longbow, build adrenaline, can alternate between FGS and Shake it off if you need to build adrenaline quicker (traited to give Adrenaline and be on 20 sec CD), each will give you a bar of adrenaline (and 3 might stacks + fury for FGS):

Unleash longbow burst for the 8 second field, put down your banner (if it is off CD) for AOE might, pick up and slam down again for 3 more stacks, swap to Hammer (you have reduced CD on swap and get adrenaline for each swap) and you should have at least 1 bar (can use other shout if not) to burst with hammer and add three more stacks (plus stun).  During weapon swap CD I will use Hammer 2 for weakness, 3 if I want to snare, or 4/5 if I want to interrupt/KD.  Then swap to bow (again you get adrenaline for the swap) get at least two bars of adrenaline and repeat.  With FGS, might on swap and all the blast finishers you can get 25 stacks of might on yourself
and maintain 18 aoe stacks on the party.

Run with something like a S/D ele and you pretty much keep 25 might stacks on the whole party and melt bosses.  I can keep up 25 stacks on myself and 18 on allies using the target dummies in LA and you can't even crit on those.

On the training dummies in LA my hammer hits for about 1k or so on the first two hits and 1.5k or so on the last one.  I basically use zerk trinkets (except for one knight ring) so with crit damage the third hammer should crit for about 3k (you can't crit the training dummies).




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