35 replies to this topic

[MazingerZ]

Having done the Priory quest line up to Claw Island (not through), I must say that while Sieran is a little... out there, I find her personality to be a little refreshing as far as talking to Sylvari NPCs.  Caithe and Trahearne are melancholy for different reasons.  Sieran has lust for life, albeit she seems to fit the manic pixie dream girl stereotype to a T.

But for some reason I think she's the most dumped on NPC out of all the Order story lines.  She has the odd exuberance that I got from Killeen.  The whole Sylvari 'knowledge not tempered with subjective experience' thing going.

Anyway, pro-Sieran!  Not saying she's the best, but I can't understand the hate.

[Verelia]

Erm...then you're best off not completing Claw Island, just saying.

[MazingerZ]

Verelia, on 03 December 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

Erm...then you're best off not completing Claw Island, just saying.

I'm well aware of what happens to Order NPCs at Claw Island, in the broad strokes.

Unless they do something that completely destroys her character.  Include spoiler tags.

Spoiler

I have personally seen off two Tybalts. Both were hard to watch.

Edited by MazingerZ, 03 December 2012 - 07:45 PM.

[Konig Des Todes]

I have only done one Priory storyline (go figure, right?) which I did when joining a friend. And I gotta say her personality was extremely enjoyable in the... bubbly sense.

All three mentors are great characters. Far better than half of Destiny's Edge or just about every order/pact leader (well, can't say much for Gixx obviously).

GW2 has a "serious fault" of how every good NPC dies. At this rate, Tyria's going to be filled with borefest people. (Spoilers: That's the real way the Elder Dragons destroy the world many times over - they kill off all the interesting people).

[Arewn]

I found myself in hatred for her many times, only to turn around 2 secs later and like her all the more for it.
I really wish the mentors either lived, or they had another character in your Pstory with as much depth that stuck around. I was starting to like Demmi Beetlestone but she disappeared so...

Moving forward with the personal story, they really need to work on better establishing a lot of characters (and not killing them off). Let's see the characters like Demmi, or the surviving member of your charr warband, or your friend from the city as a human, get some more depth and see them around more.

[Steadfast Gao Shun]

I guess I have a thing for manly men and awkwardly adorable kitten-lion engineers, but Sieran's one of the few Sylvari NPCs that I quickly grew to like. She also happened to be my third, so I was in some senses more psychologically prepared for potential plot twists.

Spoilers below for why the other two clicked well with me.

Spoiler

My first order mentor was Forgal. I wasn't fond of him at first, but he really grew on me. I saw Claw Island and was like, "hah, this is dumb, someone's probably going to die, and I bet it's this salad-top who just showed up out of nowhere -"

And then terrible things happen and then I know it was going to happen - he's going to sacrifice himself. The part where he quietly tells you that he's lost his mate and his child to the dragons resonated really, really well, and I could feel myself tearing up. In some senses, while I wished that he didn't die, it was a fitting end for him to go. It is amazing how Anet's writers sometimes have the ability to communicate using a few simple lines of dialogue (most of Gwen's from GW1, for instance - I was one of the few folks who kept that tapestry shard since its inception, so I'm super biased towards the way Gwen was introduced in EOTN).

But Tybalt. Tybalt I liked from the start. His struggle was something I think all of us can identify with. And, I kid you not, I spent a really long time wandering around every corner in the Chantry of Whispers looking for him. After all, Order of Whispers are known for cloak and daggers type ploys, he's got a contingency plan - he has to, right?

... Right?

For me, Tybalt's death really hit where it hurts. He asked my character (and therefore, me via proxy) to trust him. It's the breaking of that trust - and the fact that my character can't exactly go up to him and go TYBALT Y U DO IT U PROMISED ME THAT WE'D DRINK APPLE CIDER TOGETHER WHY YOU DED????? (he's dead, not to mention a fictional character) that really strikes it home. I don't think I felt that attached to a fictional character in a long while.

On Sieran:

Spoiler

Sieran's death was ... as I said, it was less unexpected, but it still hurt because she was such a good-natured person. A lot of people dislike her because they interpret her as this dumb twit who has a kender-like fascination with everything and doesn't actually understand what death is or how horrifying it is or blah. I strongly disagree with that interpretation.

Being a scholar of the Arthurian Tradition, it could be said that the bittersweet nature of that legend - the melancholy that previous posters have pointed out - is an important basis within the Sylvari racial design. Sieran is no less so than the others - it's just she doesn't display her dignity or "nobility" in the same way. She's in love with the world, and you can tell that her inquisitive nature was in a way, a really great way to show us how much she loved it. The fact that she is not only mature enough to understand how great it is to live, but is actively willing to give that up for other living beings cemented her hero status in my mind.

Her farewell speech - the line about how she was initially just a pleasureseeker - wasn't just "character development." In some senses, it highlighted her character's consistent search for something (a meaning of life, perhaps), and I think a large part of that decision making was that she tells your character that she has found what she was looking for, and thus -

While I didn't tear up as much as seeing the other two off, letting her go felt like a dull stab, and Tyria definitely felt emptier without her around. In some senses, she was representative, to me, of the sacrifice of the innocent. Both Tybalt and Forgal are sort of "world-weary" characters with a great amount of experience, and in some senses, all three are searching for meaning through different ways. It's just I think that the sacrifice of the unblemished should be no less than that of the atoners.

Edited by Steadfast Gao Shun, 03 December 2012 - 10:46 PM.

[Milennin]

Sieran's my favourite GW2 NPC.

[Rabbit]

Really? I hated her.. I found her incredibly obnoxious and annoying.. Tybalt is my favorite, I really bonded with him! <3

[Ravrohan]

I have to agree with Steadfast almost completely.  I think the only part I disagree on is personal opinion, in that her death was more painful than the other two.  Sieran is my favorite sylvari npc, hands down.  Caithe and Trehearne annoy the HELL out of me (especially the later)  In fact, she was probably my favorite character in the story, and I don't mind admitting I teared up.  

I really thought more characters would persist through the personal story.  I pictured Petra (your friend in the human commoner's story if I have the name wrong) leaving home once you did and either accompanying you, or joining the Vigil herself and reuniting with you later in the story.  None of the characters save Trahearne seem to persist though, and that really bothered me, especially when my favorite ended like she did.

[Razuuli]

I agree that all the most compelling characters we meet seem to either die or disappear. It's very disappointing.

[Kid]

It would be preferable to see 3 of them live and all of Destiny's Edge and Traherne die grisly death as much as the game rating can allow. All the bickering of those 5 kids full of wangst really get on my nerve (especially the final mission), and Traherne being sort of Gary Stu does not help either.

But then again, Sieran seems to think of Traherne as her idol. Poor judgment of character there, Magister.

Edited by Kid, 04 December 2012 - 04:50 AM.

[draxynnic]

Konig Des Todes, on 03 December 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

I have only done one Priory storyline (go figure, right?) which I did when joining a friend. And I gotta say her personality was extremely enjoyable in the... bubbly sense.

All three mentors are great characters. Far better than half of Destiny's Edge or just about every order/pact leader (well, can't say much for Gixx obviously).

Gixx is a bit too "stereotypical asura" for my liking. Now, it makes sense that the asura are going to have got their fingers deep into Durmand Priory once they got the opportunity, but even (or, possibly, especially) in an enclave of scholars I would have expected the head honcho to be more... diplomatic. Gixx clearly thinks he's better than everyone and everybody and has contempt for non-asura cultures, and isn't ashamed of showing it - I don't know how the Priory selects its leaders, but I don't see him being voted in, and if he was appointed as a successor by his predecessor I don't know what they were thinking.

Sieran, I'd have to say, was probably my favourite of the mentors. Now, don't get me wrong, Tybalt does have his charms, but Sieran's exuberance and bubblyness is something I find refreshing.

[Konig Des Todes]

Ravrohan, on 03 December 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

None of the characters save Trahearne seem to persist though, and that really bothered me, especially when my favorite ended like she did.

A lot of early storyline characters return in Orr (as well as for retaking Claw Island).

It just depends on what storylines you take.

Spoiler

For Claw Island, as Whispers, you get Ben Tennstrikes who you met in the Orders storyline or Gorr, whom all asura characters meet in the lvl 20-30 area. As Priory, you get brand new folks with dredge tech, or meeting up with the sylvari from "Act with Wisdom, but Act." As Vigil, you two new folks though.

In Orr, depending on your storyline options, you can meet up with:
*The sylvari from Act with Wisdom, but Act (ambush the Eye and later Vigil path to invade Cursed Shore)
*Gear Warband from norn blacked out storyline (Vigil path to invade Cursed Shore)
*Your racial sympathy option - always.
*Gorr - always, after taking out the Eye of Zhaitan
*Snarl and Galina from charr Iron legion storyline, if you attack the Mouth head-on.
*Ferghen from the Defend the Spirits norn storyline (If you joined the Priory to invade Cursed Shore)
*The two Priory folks from dredge tech that may have helped at Claw Island (Priory plan to invade Cursed Shore)
*Deborah, from human Dead Sister, joined the vigil and is present during the Vigil path to invade Cursed Shore
*Elli can be met in the sylvari storyline and seen again later during the Whispers' path to invade Cursed Shore (and another spot, I believe, earlier on).
*Scholar Inkblood who you save during Forging the Pact story step returns for Whispers' path to invade Cursed Shore.
*Agent Zott who helped retake Claw Island for all characters also rejoins for the Whispers' path to invade Cursed Shore.
*Havroun Grechin from norn Defend the Mists storyline returns for all players after invading the Cursed Shore.
*Priestess Rhie from lvl 20-30 human storyline returns if you visit the Cathedral of Silence
*The asura Statics college krewe return for Cathedral of Silence step too.
*Though not met before, Romke, the ancestor for norn Lost an Heirloom storyline appears if you don't visit Cathedral of Silence (well, his ghost - which is also seen in the standard Cursed Shore zone too).

And I might have missed some.

So a lot of characters return, but there's still plenty of characters who don't despite being able to, and it's all to easy to pick the "wrong" path so that you're not re-united with old chums... and often, those old chums don't recognize you even if you *did* get them.

[MazingerZ]

draxynnic, on 04 December 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

Gixx is a bit too "stereotypical asura" for my liking. Now, it makes sense that the asura are going to have got their fingers deep into Durmand Priory once they got the opportunity, but even (or, possibly, especially) in an enclave of scholars I would have expected the head honcho to be more... diplomatic. Gixx clearly thinks he's better than everyone and everybody and has contempt for non-asura cultures, and isn't ashamed of showing it - I don't know how the Priory selects its leaders, but I don't see him being voted in, and if he was appointed as a successor by his predecessor I don't know what they were thinking.

Sieran, I'd have to say, was probably my favourite of the mentors. Now, don't get me wrong, Tybalt does have his charms, but Sieran's exuberance and bubblyness is something I find refreshing.

The Ghost Rite kind of gives him a little depth though.

Spoiler

Gixx said:

I'd always hoped Sieran would learn responsibility, but not like this. She was a turnip-brained, leaf-loving...hero. And she will be missed.

It's a lot of effort, but YouTube has clips, if you listen to him.  He gets spun up and then catches himself.  To me, it comes off almost regretful.  That some small part of him enjoyed what Sieran brought, even as it annoyed him.  Much like Flint Fireforge and Tasslehoff.

As far as his approach to the Priory.  Asuran belief in the Eternal Alchemy to me comes off more as a spiritual philosophy than religion.  They understand there are forces beyond them and while they try to squirrel it out, they seem far less interested in controlling them than understanding them.

When dealing with the idol of Balthazzar, he accepts its an artifact of power.  He accepts it can be useful.  It is a piece of the Eternal Alchemy.  One that humans gave a face and a name to.  Had it been a human NPC, they could probably have treated it with more reverence and indeed, might be hesitant to use it.  Charr would scoff at it out of hand, because they dislike the concept of Gods in general.  Sylvari... I dunno.  Considering the fact that they're only 25 years old as race, I can't see them holding a high spot in the order.  Magister might be it.  Gixx might have already been installed at their awakening.  Norn, same issues as humans.  They have their own religion they hold steadfast towards.  Articles of power tied to religion might be treated differently.

Though who knows.  There's a Priory event in Brisband Wildlands where two human Arcanists are performing a ritual.  I think one of them is a skeptic, going through the motions.  The other one seems to believe, but doesn't seem to hold any reverance to the gods he's praying to, to enact the ritual.  They seemed like a means to an end for him as well.

Edited by MazingerZ, 04 December 2012 - 08:36 PM.

[Sword Hammer Axe]

Hate? I honestly haven't seen much hate for her. And personally I love her She's cherry. A cute voice and accent, an adorable child-like attitude that lorewise fits the Sylvari pretty well, and that lust for adventure that'd make even a One Piece character say "Whoa, there, chill!" And the way she evolves as a person is fantastic <3

Konig Des Todes, on 04 December 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

A lot of early storyline characters return in Orr (as well as for retaking Claw Island).

It just depends on what storylines you take.

Spoiler

For Claw Island, as Whispers, you get Ben Tennstrikes who you met in the Orders storyline or Gorr, whom all asura characters meet in the lvl 20-30 area. As Priory, you get brand new folks with dredge tech, or meeting up with the sylvari from "Act with Wisdom, but Act." As Vigil, you two new folks though.

In Orr, depending on your storyline options, you can meet up with:
*The sylvari from Act with Wisdom, but Act (ambush the Eye and later Vigil path to invade Cursed Shore)
*Gear Warband from norn blacked out storyline (Vigil path to invade Cursed Shore)
*Your racial sympathy option - always.
*Gorr - always, after taking out the Eye of Zhaitan
*Snarl and Galina from charr Iron legion storyline, if you attack the Mouth head-on.
*Ferghen from the Defend the Spirits norn storyline (If you joined the Priory to invade Cursed Shore)
*The two Priory folks from dredge tech that may have helped at Claw Island (Priory plan to invade Cursed Shore)
*Deborah, from human Dead Sister, joined the vigil and is present during the Vigil path to invade Cursed Shore
*Elli can be met in the sylvari storyline and seen again later during the Whispers' path to invade Cursed Shore (and another spot, I believe, earlier on).
*Scholar Inkblood who you save during Forging the Pact story step returns for Whispers' path to invade Cursed Shore.
*Agent Zott who helped retake Claw Island for all characters also rejoins for the Whispers' path to invade Cursed Shore.
*Havroun Grechin from norn Defend the Mists storyline returns for all players after invading the Cursed Shore.
*Priestess Rhie from lvl 20-30 human storyline returns if you visit the Cathedral of Silence
*The asura Statics college krewe return for Cathedral of Silence step too.
*Though not met before, Romke, the ancestor for norn Lost an Heirloom storyline appears if you don't visit Cathedral of Silence (well, his ghost - which is also seen in the standard Cursed Shore zone too).

And I might have missed some.

So a lot of characters return, but there's still plenty of characters who don't despite being able to, and it's all to easy to pick the "wrong" path so that you're not re-united with old chums... and often, those old chums don't recognize you even if you *did* get them.

Awesome list. Minor mistakes and missings, but still awesome

[draxynnic]

Snarl and Galina show up in the Mouth step regardless, just doing different things.

The Ghost Rite is actually part of why I don't like Gixx. To me, he comes across as contemptuous of the power he's planning to use - never mind that the ritualists taking the risks to activate it, and possibly also the PC, are human and it's their religion and culture that he's having a go at right in front of them - and the aforementioned ritualists. His "we can manage with one less" line isn't really that much better than the poorly-times "Moving on..."s Trahearne cops so much flak for, except in his case they're an accidental coincidence rather than deliberately a part of his character.

It's possible that one human might be hesitant to use it, but another could easily regard it as being meant to be used in a time of need (and from what I hear it first turns up in a charr story with the Separatists planning to use it). However, I'm not saying that it shouldn't be an asura in charge of the Priory (although I'm not saying that it should be either) but Gixx specifically seems more suited to being in charge of his own project rather than having the entire Priory as his project.

[XgreatArtist]

Spoiler

here is a tip for sieran lovers(or the other 2 mentors). For your 2nd characters and onwards, dont proceed with the lv 50 claw island quest. That quest changed the whole 'personal story idea' into trahearne's personal story(and of course your mentor dies). It is sad to see anet killing off all the influential and nice npcs, leaving us Logan and trahearne.

Edited by XgreatArtist, 05 December 2012 - 05:51 AM.

[Xunlai Agent]

Of all the mentors I disliked Sieran the most!

[Alex Dimitri]

What can i say I WANT Tybalt Leftpaw back......i`m going so far that i would make deal with Grenth if he returns Tybalt i will personally kill that annoying grandma Traeherne !!!!

[Mr_Finesse]

XgreatArtist, on 05 December 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

Spoiler

here is a tip for sieran lovers(or the other 2 mentors). For your 2nd characters and onwards, dont proceed with the lv 50 claw island quest. That quest changed the whole 'personal story idea' into trahearne's personal story(and of course your mentor dies). It is sad to see anet killing off all the influential and nice npcs, leaving us Logan and trahearne.

Agreed 110%

Spoiler

Post Claw Island, it became Trahearne's story.  We followed him around, did things he suggested, did things he ordered us to do and officially became his 2nd in command (**coughpersonalbiotchcough**)

There is a severe lack of notable NPCs that you actually, ya know, want to like.  There is a whole thread on guru about Trahearne having an extremely contriving personality and that is so extremely true.  He stands up to proceed with his calling to bring the 3 orders together to defeat Zaitian and becomes a self-absorbed know it all leader in the process.  He produces results, obviously, but the personal story is a reflection of his story, not your own personal stories.  

GW1 did a great job of centering the story around your character being prophesied to eliminate a great evil and introduced great supporting characters to drive you to that goal.  Trahearne actually accomplishes that goal for you instead.

PS: I love Magister Sieran as a character.  That's what this thread was originally about :-)

Edited by Mr_Finesse, 05 December 2012 - 07:49 PM.

[Ravrohan]

Konig Des Todes, on 04 December 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

A lot of early storyline characters return in Orr (as well as for retaking Claw Island).

It just depends on what storylines you take.

Spoiler

For Claw Island, as Whispers, you get Ben Tennstrikes who you met in the Orders storyline or Gorr, whom all asura characters meet in the lvl 20-30 area. As Priory, you get brand new folks with dredge tech, or meeting up with the sylvari from "Act with Wisdom, but Act." As Vigil, you two new folks though.

In Orr, depending on your storyline options, you can meet up with:
*The sylvari from Act with Wisdom, but Act (ambush the Eye and later Vigil path to invade Cursed Shore)
*Gear Warband from norn blacked out storyline (Vigil path to invade Cursed Shore)
*Your racial sympathy option - always.
*Gorr - always, after taking out the Eye of Zhaitan
*Snarl and Galina from charr Iron legion storyline, if you attack the Mouth head-on.
*Ferghen from the Defend the Spirits norn storyline (If you joined the Priory to invade Cursed Shore)
*The two Priory folks from dredge tech that may have helped at Claw Island (Priory plan to invade Cursed Shore)
*Deborah, from human Dead Sister, joined the vigil and is present during the Vigil path to invade Cursed Shore
*Elli can be met in the sylvari storyline and seen again later during the Whispers' path to invade Cursed Shore (and another spot, I believe, earlier on).
*Scholar Inkblood who you save during Forging the Pact story step returns for Whispers' path to invade Cursed Shore.
*Agent Zott who helped retake Claw Island for all characters also rejoins for the Whispers' path to invade Cursed Shore.
*Havroun Grechin from norn Defend the Mists storyline returns for all players after invading the Cursed Shore.
*Priestess Rhie from lvl 20-30 human storyline returns if you visit the Cathedral of Silence
*The asura Statics college krewe return for Cathedral of Silence step too.
*Though not met before, Romke, the ancestor for norn Lost an Heirloom storyline appears if you don't visit Cathedral of Silence (well, his ghost - which is also seen in the standard Cursed Shore zone too).

And I might have missed some.

So a lot of characters return, but there's still plenty of characters who don't despite being able to, and it's all to easy to pick the "wrong" path so that you're not re-united with old chums... and often, those old chums don't recognize you even if you *did* get them.

I seem to have picked a lot of wrong choices then, I did meet some of them again but it didn't feel like I was having a reunion.  None of the really important characters seemed to return for me.  

I also did most of the story line with a friend, switching off quests, so it probably killed my chances.

[syrin]

I loved Sieran, not afraid to admit did a lot of personal undead smashing after that to get even.

[matsif]

having done all orders through claw island, I'd have to say she was my least favorite.  Sieran is like the polar opposite of how I am in real life and I frankly found her incredibly annoying.

[Shadow209]

Magistra Sieran is the best npc in the game. Not only compared to Tybalt and Forgal, but in the whole game imho.

[Sazaraki]

I really liked Sieran! She was my favorite NPC that I've ran into. I destroyed lots of Risen because of her.

[BuddhaKeks]

I have played the Durmand storyline now (after doing OoW first) and have to say, I don't like Sieran. At first she was kind of funny, but her stupidity could have potentially kicked me out of the order (when she "forgot" to report to Gixx). Maybe I'm biased because I met Tybalt first, but he was so likeable and charming from the start. Sieran however starts okay, but get's annoying real quick. Also, while this has nothing to do with the story line, she was bugged during my playthrough and rarely ever took part in combat. She usually just stood there and watched me die. I can't wait to do the same to her at Claw Island.

Edited by BuddhaKeks, 23 December 2012 - 02:39 AM.

[Raagar Deathclaw]

gotta say i'm glad to see all the "Give me Tybalt back!" posts as I just started OoW storyline and am already grieving for him =(

[Wifflebottom]

I've only played the Vigil and Forgal seems incredibly boring compared to the way people talk about Sieran and Tybalt. My mentor sucks :/

[draxynnic]

Yeah, Forgal has his moments, but Tybalt and Sieran are definitely more interesting.

[AsgarZigel]

Only played Whispers Storyline so far, Tybalt is obviously awesome.

The only other Character I enjoyed was Lord Faren, at least he is still alive. (I would pay money for zany adventures with Faren, honestly)

One of the main problems is that we almost never have time to really get to know the characters, even when sometimes there are entertaining or interesting character traits are shining through. The only character who stays around and doesn't die is Trahearnne... who is simply boring.