27 replies to this topic

[Taelvin]

Good Evening,

I was reading through lore and came across stories that had great hero thieves, elementalists, guardians, rangers, mesmers, and warriors but haven't seen any references to necromancer heroes or great figures in history. Does anyone know of any?

[Gerroh]

Palawa Joko, though he might just be a lich, and some would even dare to say that he's not a great hero, but they are clearly heretics who need to be burned.
Also, Trahearne. A lot of people don't like Trahearne and he's really not from the "history", but I think if more people would play through the sylvari story they'd maybe come to harbour a greater respect for him.

[ThiaTheMuse]

Necromancer Muune, Kasha Blackblood, and my fav Nola Sheppard. Oh, also, Oola. Oh oh and Killeen! I think there might be some others...

[Valkaire]

Livia is a big one, so is Eve.

Eve is pretty much bigger than everyone else considering she's one of "the group" that saved Tyria and Cantha. By 'the group' I mean the group of NPCs that basically hold the lore/story together besides the "unnamed hero" saving the world type thing.

Note to self: Do not leave edit open for 20 minutes before posting xD

Edited by Valkaire, 04 December 2012 - 07:26 AM.

[ThiaTheMuse]

Ah, and Eve! And the Master of Whispers!

[Steadfast Gao Shun]

You guys are forgetting Olias. And Lazarus the Dire. The Unseen shall flay your soul for your ignorance.

Edited by Steadfast Gao Shun, 04 December 2012 - 08:06 AM.

[XgreatArtist]

dont forget about that guy who stole your personal story spotlight. He is a necromancer and he is definitely 'great'

[Setharos]

There is also Verata.

[Sword Hammer Axe]

My Necro from GW Verata, Munne, Eve, Livia... I'm probably just naming some already listed... but oh well, it proves a point

ThiaTheMuse, on 04 December 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

Nola Sheppard. Oh, also, Oola.

Yeah, these I've seen in GW2 as well, Nola's name on a gravestone, Oola as a hologram.

Edited by Sword Hammer Axe, 04 December 2012 - 10:28 PM.

[Theworldasd]

ThiaTheMuse, on 04 December 2012 - 07:08 AM, said:

And the Master of Whispers!

The only reason I remember the master of whispers (the first guild war's one) is that he is extremely fond of running in front of mobs, "tanking" them and using health sacrifice skills while doing so.

I usually call him master of fail. I ended up usually using him mostly as a ritualist/necro healer.

[draxynnic]

Probably Blimm as well if we're just throwing names onto a pile.

For GW2 specifically, though, as much as many people won't like it, I think Trahearne is intended to be the premier necromancer hero among the Pact and its allies, just as the members of Destiny's Edge represent their respective professions (despite also receiving their share of hate) and Jennah is the setting's super-mesmer. The profession that appears to be missing a visible 'prime representative' is the engineer - although I could see that turning out to be Smodur.

[ThiaTheMuse]

^ I don't think Blimm is a Necro...

[Kurosov]

draxynnic, on 05 December 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

Probably Blimm as well if we're just throwing names onto a pile.

For GW2 specifically, though, as much as many people won't like it, I think Trahearne is intended to be the premier necromancer hero among the Pact and its allies, just as the members of Destiny's Edge represent their respective professions (despite also receiving their share of hate) and Jennah is the setting's super-mesmer. The profession that appears to be missing a visible 'prime representative' is the engineer - although I could see that turning out to be Smodur.

The games "super-engineer" was me.

[madmaxII]

GW1's wiki lists Vizier Khilbron as a necromancer.

http://wiki.guildwar...Vizier_Khilbron

Not really a hero, though.

Edited by madmaxII, 06 December 2012 - 02:20 AM.

[draxynnic]

ThiaTheMuse, on 06 December 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

^ I don't think Blimm is a Necro...

Mechanics-wise he's treated as a warrior, but that's GW1's default for anyone who isn't really supposed to be fighting. Lorewise, on the other hand, he continued what Oola started in blending golemancy and necromancy. His staff is a ritualist weapon based on Spawning Power, so that's probably his primary profession, but GW1 does allow for secondary professions and Keiran sets a precedent for NPCs changing primary professions, so he could have switched over to necromancer by the time he made the Golem's Eye that features in Ghosts of Ascalon.

[ThiaTheMuse]

Hmmm, well, couldn't he still be a Rit? I mean, yeah, Necro could be his secondary. He doesn't have to be a necro like Oola to continue her work. After all, Zojja is an ele, not a mesmer like Snaff was, but she still cares on his work. And, I never really got the impression that that Golem's Eye was a ncro thing. The way it worked, it reminded me of Snaff's control laurels and Sandy. But, the world may never know! But, either way, Blimm is awesome.

Anyway, I think the put is: Yes, there are many heroic and noteworthy Necros in Guild Wars history.

[draxynnic]

The Golem's Eye works primarily on animating bones from what we see in GoA, and Oola talks about 'necromancy and golemancy being destined to collide'. In fact, if anything, what Oola eventually achieved (binding her spirit to a golem - you encounter this in an event in Metrica Province) is more ritualist-like, while what Blimm eventually achieved (a powerstone that could animate every corpse in the general area) was more necromancer-like. Since Blimm was originally Oola's apprentice, it's quite likely that they shared professions.

Regarding Snaff and Zojja - while I was the person who initially speculated that Snaff might have been a mesmer, has that actually been confirmed? The main thrust of Snaff's work was simple golemancy - which seems to work in different ways with all magic types - and investigation of draconic energies.

[ThiaTheMuse]

I don't think it's been confirmed, but in one of the dungeon cut-scenes you can see that he wears the same cultural armor as Zojja, making him a Scholar. Also, it's purple. Plus, given how he controls Sandy and Big Snaff, with his mind, it makes sense that he is a mesmer.

As for the Golem's Eye, I figured the only reason it made a bone Golem was because that was pretty much the only thing around, ya know. Since Ascalon is pretty barren. And yeah, I know Oola's big on necromancy + golemmancy, "Life and death" as she puts it, but...I doubt every asura thinks that. But yeah, if I was to put money on anything, I would say Oola = N/Rt and Blimm = Rt/N. But that's just me.

Ya know, I think we could take about this all day...and that's AWESOME! It's rare that I meet someone who knows as much, if not more, about the lore than I do!

[draxynnic]

Well, in both cases, there were plenty of other things around, but the Golem's Eye went straight for the bones. There's also a discussion in the second chapter of GoA that specifies that his work was necromantic in nature:

Quote

Blimm considered himself a function apart. That's likely why he made so much progress with necromantic constructs, using bone and dead flesh in his golemtric creations. He was willing to test ideas no lesser asura would consider.

...He kept strange company in his later years. Humans. Necromancers.

I think there may be other references from Kranxx as well, but his creations definitely appear to have utilised a significant degree of necromancy, and are actually quite more closely bound to necromancy than the more conventional forms employed by modern asura, Zinn, or even Oola.

When it comes to Snaff, I certainly agree that it makes sense - as mentioned above, I'm a proponent of the theory myself - but the evidence remains circumstantial. NPCs don't necessarily match to PC professions, after all, and Snaff could have been someone that lacked an adventuring profession but was simply very good at golemancy.

[lmaonade]

draxynnic, on 06 December 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

The Golem's Eye works primarily on animating bones from what we see in GoA, and Oola talks about 'necromancy and golemancy being destined to collide'. In fact, if anything, what Oola eventually achieved (binding her spirit to a golem - you encounter this in an event in Metrica Province) is more ritualist-like, while what Blimm eventually achieved (a powerstone that could animate every corpse in the general area) was more necromancer-like. Since Blimm was originally Oola's apprentice, it's quite likely that they shared professions.

Regarding Snaff and Zojja - while I was the person who initially speculated that Snaff might have been a mesmer, has that actually been confirmed? The main thrust of Snaff's work was simple golemancy - which seems to work in different ways with all magic types - and investigation of draconic energies.

This might be a bit late, or counted as a necro (pun unintended), but Blimm's Golem's Eye is supposed to work on anything, at least that's the impression I got since Clagg described it as a "self-replicating, ambient thaumaturgic construct," wouldn't it mean that the Golem's Eye can use any material in its presence/ambience to construct a golem? and it just so happens that they were in a catacomb so it took the bones of those buried? So that would mean that Blimm is, like Oola, still affiliated more with Ritualist than Necromancy.

Edited by lmaonade, 19 December 2012 - 10:16 AM.

[Killyox]

ThiaTheMuse, on 04 December 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

Necromancer Muune, Kasha Blackblood, and my fav Nola Sheppard. Oh, also, Oola. Oh oh and Killeen! I think there might be some others...

Killeen was not even hero. I would call her incompetent weak and bland. Nothing heroic about her.

Trahearne would be the most fitting one.

draxynnic, on 06 December 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

The Golem's Eye works primarily on animating bones from what we see in GoA, and Oola talks about 'necromancy and golemancy being destined to collide'. In fact, if anything, what Oola eventually achieved (binding her spirit to a golem - you encounter this in an event in Metrica Province) is more ritualist-like, while what Blimm eventually achieved (a powerstone that could animate every corpse in the general area) was more necromancer-like. Since Blimm was originally Oola's apprentice, it's quite likely that they shared professions.

Regarding Snaff and Zojja - while I was the person who initially speculated that Snaff might have been a mesmer, has that actually been confirmed? The main thrust of Snaff's work was simple golemancy - which seems to work in different ways with all magic types - and investigation of draconic energies.

Snaff didn't use magic. He was the closest to being an engineer but he also used asura tech so even that option falls a bit short.

[Alexwentworth]

Snaff is the "prime Engineer" in my mind. Then again, maybe i just want engineers to have a bigger spotlight. Engineering is a lonely life; nobody takes us seriously. We can't even take us seriously.

[draxynnic]

On the Golem's Eye: Every time we see it in action, it's bones that it animates. Both times it's been in action, there was plenty of stone around that it could animate, but didn't. My conclusion is that it at least has a strong preference to using the remains of dead creatures, and really, there's no evidence that it can use anything else. Clagg's description is technobabbly at best and I have a suspicion he didn't actually know what exactly it could do.

On Snaff - I don't recall him doing any fighting on his own that could be used to assign him a profession. He doesn't use gadgets like Kranxx does. One could argue that his ability to mind-wrestle with Kralkatorrik might indicate some mesmeric ability or that he used subtle mesmer powers to manipulate Edge of Steel into falling for his trap with Sandy, but that's speculation. He could just be an asura that lacked a combat profession at all that just happened to be good at building golems and devices to resist draconic corruption.

[EliteZeon]

Oh yeah there is also Naku, a heroic Necromancer mentioned in Canthan lore:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Naku

Quote

"Brash and impulsive in his youth, Naku was a known criminal in his home village in eastern Cantha. When the Tengu Wars began, Naku joined the Canthan army in an effort to protect his family and his shady business interests. Years of war gave him a new perspective on the nature of life and death, and eventually, Naku became a respected general, using his now considerable Necromancer powers against the Tengu who resisted Canthan rule. When Kahnmaatu, the village of his birth, was destroyed, Naku returned home and raised a vast army of minions from the corpses of his relatives and childhood playmates, then sacrificed his life to drive them directly into the enemy. This action shattered enemy lines and pushed the Tengu back far enough that the Canthan army was able to overcome them."

[Raagar Deathclaw]

Can't remember his name but vekk's dad was a necro i think

[EliteZeon]

Yay, way to Necro a thread about Great Necromancers...

Then again, I am not entirely sure about how reviving dead topics works on this forum.

In anycase, the asura you speak of is: Gadd

__

Although he seemed he was indeed very similar to a Necromancer. Given that Livia was working with him, his scary appearance, etc... he was more inclined to be an Elementalist.

But personally, I think he was a Necromancer (actually it very much seems that he was intended to be one), but I believe ANet decided to make him an Elementalist for the sake of making it look like he was better related to Vekk.

Edited by EliteZeon, 09 February 2013 - 11:39 PM.

[Konig Des Todes]

Last time I checked, necromancers don't use air magic.

As for thread reviving in the lore forum - so long as you're contributing, go ahead. One very old topic is (generally, unless severely outdated and/or your presenting a new view on things due to different info) better than several topics of the same... an issue that's prevailent on the official forums (we now have about 6 topics there about Mordremoth, 3 of which ask who/what it is, 2 relate it to the Pale Tree, and 1 is about research of the dragon itself in of itself).

[draxynnic]

Livia mentions learning much necromancy from Gadd - it's possible that Gadd was an E/N.

I suspect myself that Gadd was initially intended to be a necromancer and Oola an elementalist, and they got swapped over - however, they've since run with it with things like the connection between necromancy and golemancy.