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Clones differnet after patch?


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#1 Snipes

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:37 AM

It seems like clones have a delay now before the attack once they are summoned. I didnt see anything in the patch notes about this.
Also the sword leap clone #3 isn't working properly. It only sometimes goes to the target and has the same delay as the others.

#2 Frost425

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:10 AM

I noticed this too especially with Berserker, but not so much with the Warden.  It's probably patched secretly or more likely, a side effect from the new patch.

#3 niie

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:22 AM

According to reddit... it seems to be a side-effect of the attempt to fix the "self buffs" that phantasms can have when traited. Hopefully we will see a fix for this soon.

As it is, its not a huge deal for a number of the Phantasms, but with regards to the iBerserker, it actually becomes an issue since it tends to die relatively quickly after summoned without the near immediate "evade" that its attack includes.

#4 Snipes

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:02 AM

2 big problems for me are "swap" and "P Berserker"
With Swap the clone created doesnt always get to the target so you cant immobolize them. this is due to the delay and they sometimes leap and go nowhere.
The P berserker used to spawn and immediately hit and cripple the foe. Now it is summoned and with the delay the foe can just run out of its range before it attacks.

#5 Scizzor

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:53 AM

View Postniie, on 04 December 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

According to reddit... it seems to be a side-effect of the attempt to fix the "self buffs" that phantasms can have when traited. Hopefully we will see a fix for this soon.

As it is, its not a huge deal for a number of the Phantasms, but with regards to the iBerserker, it actually becomes an issue since it tends to die relatively quickly after summoned without the near immediate "evade" that its attack includes.

They probably won't fix it it anytime soon. They haven't fixed the first problem with iberserker from the last patch. (Not hitting as many times as it should)

#6 Korse

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:57 PM

View PostScizzor, on 04 December 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

They probably won't fix it it anytime soon. They haven't fixed the first problem with iberserker from the last patch. (Not hitting as many times as it should)

I agree. It seems like this will be broken for a while based on past history. Not just on this character. There were several fixes that were promised to rangers when they inadvertently broke some of their skills which are still not fixed. And it's been much longer than our recent breaks.

It's going to be a wait.

#7 ayoblame

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:23 PM

I'm reading a lot of threads about the Phantasms in general not attacking right away and this isn't a new issue. It has existed since launch however the delay was only present if you didn't take the phantasm has fury trait. I think ANET confirmed it was a bug initially but I'm starting to feel like it may not be a bug at all. It seems to really hurt melee range phantasms but as far as PVE is concerned  my pistol phantasm not attacking RIGHT away gives me a little time to actually pull or prevent it from getting aggro instantly since phantasms do seem to aggro pretty easily.

This is probably a PVP nerf seeing as there was a quote by anet on how they wanted to reduce some of the damage of overall "burst" builds. Sad that the Mesmer is the only one to really have it spill over into PVE tho.

#8 Snipes

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:14 PM

View Postayoblame, on 04 December 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:


This is probably a PVP nerf seeing as there was a quote by anet on how they wanted to reduce some of the damage of overall "burst" builds. Sad that the Mesmer is the only one to really have it spill over into PVE tho.

It doesnt even affect the burst it affects all other aspects of play as the mesmer. you can still create clone and blow it up for the burst. They really just messed things up and need fixing and i got no hope for that. oh well.

Edited by Snipes, 04 December 2012 - 08:15 PM.


#9 ayoblame

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:13 PM

View PostSnipes, on 04 December 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

It doesnt even affect the burst it affects all other aspects of play as the mesmer. you can still create clone and blow it up for the burst. They really just messed things up and need fixing and i got no hope for that. oh well.

It actually does effect the burst in the same way the reduced damage of the berserker effects the burst. If you're shattering (I'm not running 100% crit damage) but at 78% crit damage a 3 shatter is around 2700(average I'm sure i can be higher or lower) per phantasm/clone. Removing the 1500-2000 or so damage from the berserker critting lowers your burst by almost the same amount as only shattering 2 clones instead of a 3 or 4. Not to mention it also means that you cannot cripple your target to prevent him from kitting/running out of range from you pre-shatters.

Yes the Mirror Image/Decoy or dodge burst is still fine but those skills have twice the cooldown of the berserker and don't cripple your target. It most certainly does effect pvp. Factor in the dodging/blind preventing casts these add up to big changes. Honestly shatter builds pre the last 2 nerfs were more faceroll than backstab thieves ever could be with less counters.

Edited by ayoblame, 04 December 2012 - 09:18 PM.


#10 Snipes

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:13 PM

View Postayoblame, on 04 December 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

It actually does effect the burst in the same way the reduced damage of the berserker effects the burst. If you're shattering (I'm not running 100% crit damage) but at 78% crit damage a 3 shatter is around 2700(average I'm sure i can be higher or lower) per phantasm/clone. Removing the 1500-2000 or so damage from the berserker critting lowers your burst by almost the same amount as only shattering 2 clones instead of a 3 or 4. Not to mention it also means that you cannot cripple your target to prevent him from kitting/running out of range from you pre-shatters.

Yes the Mirror Image/Decoy or dodge burst is still fine but those skills have twice the cooldown of the berserker and don't cripple your target. It most certainly does effect pvp. Factor in the dodging/blind preventing casts these add up to big changes. Honestly shatter builds pre the last 2 nerfs were more faceroll than backstab thieves ever could be with less counters.

Still doesnt affect the burst. It only affects damage done before or after the burst. The burst uses a stun/immobolize so cripple isnt needed and when bursting even with the delay the clones should still hit while the opponent is stunned /immobolized they arent attacking during the burst. This unintentional nerf/bug really only affects the fighting outside the combo burst.
As with any burst all you have to do is block it and its probably the most obvious burst atm.

#11 ayoblame

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:48 PM

View PostSnipes, on 04 December 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

Still doesnt affect the burst. It only affects damage done before or after the burst. The burst uses a stun/immobolize so cripple isnt needed and when bursting even with the delay the clones should still hit while the opponent is stunned /immobolized they arent attacking during the burst. This unintentional nerf/bug really only affects the fighting outside the combo burst.
As with any burst all you have to do is block it and its probably the most obvious burst atm.

Do you have a block with your GS/Staff or sword/pistol? Not every weapon set actually has a block so "Just block" to stop the burst doesn't really work. As far as it's impact on the overall build - it's still there.Just because it's not part of your  3 button burst combo doesn't mean it's not effected. The way things are working right now it's even more important to get a cripple off since this bug or fix or w/e it is also seems to effect sword #3 and the leap is frequently missing/not working properly resulting in no immobilize and there for a dodge roll negates your entire burst combo.

I'm in no way saying the builds broken now; Sure you can use your pistol daze to set up your combo and then you don't have it for interrupting their heal or their attempt to run away with out burning more clones to use the shatter daze. Then waiting 4 seconds on a clone or weapon swap because you swapped back to GS for knock-back and now your berserker sits still for while they finish off their heal.  Burst builds involve killing people in short amounts of time - this just made it so it can potentially take longer. Not that it always will.

Edited by ayoblame, 04 December 2012 - 11:48 PM.


#12 pcpsong

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:03 AM

It's actually a massive pain in the ass. I can't seem to get my beserker to land a cripple now either, it spawns then waits then does it's attack by which time the person you're attacking is already running or he's killed it.

The warlock is doing the same pause but at least is ranged.....ugh horrible hope they fix it quick.

[update] it does still apply the cripple but as I said it depends on the player standing perfectly still and in range by the time the iZerker realises it's alive!!

Edited by pcpsong, 05 December 2012 - 12:17 AM.


#13 ayoblame

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:20 AM

It definitely effects non shatter builds much more than shatter builds. I'm still doing relatively okay. Just re-traited to a phantasm build to play around and in pve the berserker is almost useless now. On bosses it dies before it gets off an attack.

#14 Jobuu

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:24 PM

yea but you really want that first attack before the shatter. adding 1 second for every phantasm cast adds up after a 10 min boss fight

#15 Kumakichi

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:54 PM

Delay is big stink in WvW .  But hope fix real soon.

#16 Wspc

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:43 AM

Don't want to make anyone sad but it's not a bug. It's intended.


"Fyi, the delay on first attack has been present since BWE2. It is there for balance reasons to give enemies a moment to react to the powerful summon."

Quoted from a game designer from this topic:

http://bit.ly/TIEXA7

Edit: long URL fixed

Edited by Wspc, 07 December 2012 - 05:45 AM.


#17 Jairyn

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:39 PM

JP says that the initial delay of all phantasms should be normalized to 0.25 seconds in a future patch. Seems workable.

https://forum-en.gui...y-broken/page/2

Edited by Jairyn, 07 December 2012 - 02:42 PM.


#18 Lookai

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:17 PM

Does any other class have a delay ontop of a cast time ability? No, even a small delay is unbalanced. I hopped back in forums to see if there has been a fix to my busted Mesmer. Nope, I still have him shelved. Seems every fix breaks something else. I'm glad at least we're getting some of the bugs fixed that have been around since, well, since forever.
Looking at the patch and what Anet says they're trying to do with burst specs seems pretty backwards. They're trying to remove some of the bursty specs but at the same time cornered mesmers into 1 of 2 viable specs now. 1 being a shatter glass cannon spec with s/p + whatever. The other being confusion build based around shatter bombing for confusion, pistol 4 for bleeds and burning damage.
Not really sure what's going on in their dev department but I keep seeing a scene from Office Space over and over when I think about it.

#19 Vihar

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:25 PM

Are thieves still hitting for 5 digit numbers?

  Just sayin...

#20 Lookai

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:29 PM

Yup!! OH!!! Aaaannndddd with the way WvW culling issues go, YOU DON'T EVEN SEE THEM!!
...... but yeah, mesmers needed nerfing. <insert heavy sarcasm>

Hell, my warrior kill shots for over 13k fairly regularly.

Edited by Lookai, 07 December 2012 - 06:37 PM.





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