94 replies to this topic

[Robsy128]

As for the nerfs, sometimes fixes can create more bugs. They probably wouldn't say: 'added a bug to the game' in the patch notes otherwise everyone would cry and called Arenanet backstabbing liars and cheats. Oh wait, that's already happened! But you get the point. It happens in every game - not just MMOs. A skyrim patch came out last year that made more bugs than fixes, and that was one of the buggiest games in the history of gaming

[Trei]

XgreatArtist, on 09 December 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

pfft thats what they say. We all know that even people like you ended up grinding for the stuff 1h-2h a day min.
You call that not grinding? And we know that you wanted that stuff you are grinding for so badly, so you mind after all.

So what if it is a few months. It is still grind. Grind is always there, arenanet tries to hide it, but GW2 is one of the most grindy mmos i ever seen.

A grind is what you make of it.

If I don't enjoy the process, I would be grinding.
But if I do?

This process is what I would want to be doing whether I wanted a specific item out of it or not. Its one of those activities I bought the game to play after all.
It just so happens that the reward I will get is something I want.  

And no, ascended gear is not something I am actively trying to get at the moment, I do not see the necessity for them.

But, as I play the game and participate in fractal dungeons, I will eventually get them.

Meanwhile, I have a seemingly endless list of things I want to do, to experience, that I don't even know which to start first.

Edited by Trei, 09 December 2012 - 10:21 AM.

[Daesu]

Targren, on 09 December 2012 - 06:42 AM, said:

There's no evidence that there WAS any change to the node placement code. Node placement has always been relatively dynamic, especially the ori nodes and regenerated at restart. Bad node placement is no more a "nerf" than the node being moved to where it's accessible after the next reboot will be a "buff."

Changing Ori node respawn to 24 hours was a nerf. An inaccessible node is bad luck from flawed code, but it has been that way since day one. That's the difference.

I disagree, node placement can be based on code generation that places the node on specific locations, so it would apply to the definition of the word "nerf" as well.  Bad placement is as good as nerfing the activity of node farming in the area, whether intentionally or not.

Edited by Daesu, 09 December 2012 - 10:32 AM.

[Daesu]

Trei, on 09 December 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

But I can get the same things you want without grinding.

The difference is I would probably get them a few months or years after you do.
The difference is I don't mind that at all, you do.

In a few months or years?  Perhaps by the time you get your level 80 PVT exotic armor, they may be outdated as the newer level 100 ascended armor would be the max stat gear then.  

And don't worry, I am sure they will update the endgame content to be tougher then so as to continue to make people feel inadequate enough to want the newer gear tier.

Have fun!

Edited by Daesu, 09 December 2012 - 10:46 AM.

[Trei]

Daesu, on 09 December 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

In a few months or years?  Perhaps by the time you get your level 80 PVT exotic armor, they may be outdated as the newer level 100 ascended armor would be the max stat gear then.  Have fun!

As I have explained to another poster before, I'm not racing with anyone.

It doesn't matter to me because I'm consuming content at my own pace. I don't need the level 100 gear you got if I haven't reached where you are.

I just got to  80, at a time when many others already have multiple 80s, even with full exotics.
I don't even have full level 80 green gear.

So what?

[Daesu]

Trei, on 09 December 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

As I have explained to another poster before, I'm not racing with anyone.

It doesn't matter to me because I'm consuming content at my own pace. I don't need the level 100 gear you got if I haven't reached where you are.

I just got to  80, at a time when many others already have multiple 80s, even with full exotics.
I don't even have full level 80 green gear.

So what?

Oh it is totally fine to be level 2 in a level 2 area even years from now, if that is what you are talking about.

But if you are level 80 and hope to explore Arah dungeon path, then the difference between blue and exotic gear would be significant enough as to be felt when playing.  This is what I am talking about.  

Years from now, I expect the level cap to be increased beyond 80 and tougher endgame areas would be available then with higher level monsters.  By then, any level 80 gear would be subpar.  This game is a constant gear grind with a moving finishing line.  If you hope to minimize the number of times your character kisses the dirt in the toughest areas in the game, you would feel the urge to update your gear.

Edited by Daesu, 09 December 2012 - 11:48 AM.

[Lycrus]

Daesu, on 09 December 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

If a node is not accessible, it is not really there is it?  So it is a nerf.  What is the point of a node if it can't be used by anyone?  Perhaps you can argue it is an unintentional nerf in this case, but still a nerf.



Good for you because there are some things in this game that you can't get without grinding.  I am trying to get a set of exotic power/vit/toughness armor to fit my character's build but I have to grind for it.  Either I grind karma or dungeons.  In this case, I can't get it even with gold.

Uhm..no. This "no" is a clear "no", because it is not a nerf. I actually cant believe i now need to explain what a nerf means. This is not a nerf, and will never be. Just because you call it so, doesnt make it a nerf O.o Could you pls stop spreading false information? When people like you (no offense, but there are more people that do this..) write something like this, then alot of people think you mean an actual "nerf"...which it isnt. arenanet didnt change anything on the node-placement regarding that you may get less orichalcum or so.
A node may be bugged, yes, but that isnt a nerf, cause the node is still there after all. You now could argue that they did this bug on purpose..but..srsly? Falling that deep?

Edited by Lycrus, 09 December 2012 - 12:09 PM.

[Daesu]

Lycrus, on 09 December 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Uhm..no. This "no" is a clear "no", because it is not a nerf. I actually cant believe i now need to explain what a nerf means. This is not a nerf, and will never be. Just because you call it so, doesnt make it a nerf O.o Could you pls stop spreading false information? When people like you (no offense, but there are more people that do this..) write something like this, then alot of people think you mean an actual "nerf"...which it isnt. arenanet didnt change anything on the node-placement regarding that you may get less orichalcum or so.
A node may be bugged, yes, but that isnt a nerf, cause the node is still there after all. You now could argue that they did this bug on purpose..but..srsly? Falling that deep?

That is your own opinion on what a nerf is, so please stop imposing it on everybody else.  Nerf can be used as a verb or a noun.

A nerf, according to wikipedia, is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element.  So did the game change?  Yes, because the node was moved from an accessible point into an inaccessible point on the map.  This resulted in a nerf in the area because it reduces the effectiveness of farming orichalcum nodes in the sunsouth cove.  The change may be unintentional but it is still a nerf to orichalcum farming, as a result.  No amount of word twisting from you is going to change that.

http://en.wikipedia...._(video_gaming)

Edited by Daesu, 09 December 2012 - 07:51 PM.

[Corvindi]

Trei, on 09 December 2012 - 03:10 AM, said:

I am banking on the fact that many people will trade gems for gold.
They are effectively paying my "subscription" for me.

But here's the shocker: I'm still not finding myself compelled to grind for anything.
There are so many venues for me to acquire the things I want in the game, I don't ever have to keep doing one same thing over and over and over again, even if it is accepted to be the most efficient way.

I am not playing for efficiency, I'm playing for fun.

I am not surprised players still have such need-to-grind mentality, despite all their denial.
No one, least of all Anet, expects to complete a virtual paradigm shift in how players view MMOs in three short months.

If you like crafting you need to grind either things to sell for gold or the mats, at least that's what I'm finding today.  I'm just over halfway to 400 on my weaponsmithing and I've spent close to 10 gold.  Now I did make that much playing the TP, but it took me a few days and I know it's probably going to be easier to stop playing the rest of the game and go back to playing the TP again just to get that gold back.  It's definitely the grindiest, most expensive crafting I have ever run across in any game.

And I'm doing buy orders and waiting for them to fill, by the way, instead of just buying whatever is being sold the cheapest.

Edited by Corvindi, 09 December 2012 - 09:40 PM.

[Trei]

Corvindi, on 09 December 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

If you like crafting you need to grind either things to sell for gold or the mats, at least that's what I'm finding today.  I'm just over halfway to 400 on my weaponsmithing and I've spent close to 10 gold.  Now I did make that much playing the TP, but it took me a few days and I know it's probably going to be easier to stop playing the rest of the game and go back to playing the TP again just to get that gold back.  It's definitely the grindiest, most expensive crafting I have ever run across in any game.

And I'm doing buy orders and waiting for them to fill, by the way, instead of just buying whatever is being sold the cheapest.

I am at 350+ huntsman. I never had to grind for mats, only spent a little less than 2g in total so far.
The only coin I spent on it was when I was short on a few specific mats (like blood or totem etc) for the last few points to the next tier, which I then bought for a few silvers worth.
I conserve materials by discover-crafting only items that require the least amount, and salvage all items I craft to recycle them.

Occasionally, I would find myself running around in the world with the primary objective of that day's play time being to gather mats. But that only meant I paid that bit more attention to looking out for node icons on the minimap. If I happen to run across a DE, I would still go along and follow it.
I am still playing Guild Wars 2 for the day, not Gather Wars 2.

I did not ignore the rest of the game on some single-minded goal of gathering the most mats I could.
That would be akin to grinding.

Most of the time, the gathering of mats just happen as I am doing other things, going other places, playing the game.

Edited by Trei, 10 December 2012 - 01:27 AM.

[Lycrus]

Daesu, on 09 December 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

That is your own opinion on what a nerf is, so please stop imposing it on everybody else.  Nerf can be used as a verb or a noun.

A nerf, according to wikipedia, is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element.  So did the game change?  Yes, because the node was moved from an accessible point into an inaccessible point on the map.  This resulted in a nerf in the area because it reduces the effectiveness of farming orichalcum nodes in the sunsouth cove.  The change may be unintentional but it is still a nerf to orichalcum farming, as a result.  No amount of word twisting from you is going to change that.

http://en.wikipedia...._(video_gaming)

No, your statement is still false. If it was in the code from day one (which it was) then it wasnt a change, thus it wasnt a nerf. On top if that, a "bug" doesnt fall into the nerf category. you are using facts and you are combining them in the wrong way. This is not a nerf, but a bug. thats it. Thats not my opinion, thats a fact by its own. You statement i actually an opinion cause you SEE a bug as a nerf...

[Daesu]

Lycrus, on 10 December 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

No, your statement is still false. If it was in the code from day one (which it was) then it wasnt a change, thus it wasnt a nerf. On top if that, a "bug" doesnt fall into the nerf category. you are using facts and you are combining them in the wrong way. This is not a nerf, but a bug. thats it. Thats not my opinion, thats a fact by its own. You statement i actually an opinion cause you SEE a bug as a nerf...

Your argument on how the server code could have been implemented is irrelevant, so learn to read.  Since historical records show that the node was moved from an accessible to an inaccessible point on the map, there was indeed a change to the game from the player's perspective, thus it fits the definition of a nerf.

Edited by Daesu, 10 December 2012 - 05:44 AM.

[Soki]

I love the semantics-arguing as much as everyone else, but it's wholly missing the point:
ArenaNet screws with drop rates in order to artificially inflate the prices on certain desirable goods; pushing more emphasis on the Gem->Gold conversion.

[Trei]

Daesu, on 09 December 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

...
Years from now, I expect the level cap to be increased beyond 80 and tougher endgame areas would be available then with higher level monsters.  By then, any level 80 gear would be subpar.  This game is a constant gear grind with a moving finishing line.  ....

One of the very first MMORPG, Everquest... It was called Everquest for a reason.

To me, there's no finishing line. That's for single player games.

My level 40 gear is currently already obsolete, subpar, compared to lvl 80 gear.
Where is the difference, now or years from now?

[Daesu]

Trei, on 10 December 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

My level 40 gear is currently already obsolete, subpar, compared to lvl 80 gear.
Where is the difference, now or years from now?

The difference between getting your max stat level 80 gear now vs years from now?  That would be like the difference between whether you are running fast enough to stay in the same spot on the gear treadmill or you are running so slow that you are falling behind.  If I am in the latter group, I might as well stop playing altogether since I wont be able to keep up with the grind based on my real life responsibilities and my commitment to the game, etc.

In the end, there is no point playing a game that you don't enjoy playing and I enjoy playing in the toughest areas, provided that I don't kiss the dirt too easily.

Edited by Daesu, 10 December 2012 - 06:17 AM.

[Trei]

Daesu, on 10 December 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

The difference between getting your max stat level 80 gear now vs years from now?  That would be like the difference between whether you are running fast enough to stay in the same spot on the gear treadmill or you are running so slow that you are falling behind.  If I am in the latter group, I might as well stop playing altogether since I wont be able to keep up with the grind based on my real life responsibilities and my commitment to the game, etc.

In the end, there is no point playing a game that you don't enjoy playing and I enjoy playing in the toughest areas, provided that I don't kiss the dirt too easily.

Do you still not see?
I am already "behind" right now, so far behind that I will never be able to catch up with those with legendaries or whatnot.

But I'm not concerned with catching up to anyone. So technically I can't fall behind anything if I was not trying to compete with anybody now, can I?

The other thing would be those lvl 40 gear I mentioned? They may be subpar stats wise but skins and looks will never be obsolete, for as long as I like them.

I do not get gear for sake of mere stats.

Edited by Trei, 10 December 2012 - 06:42 AM.

[Krazzar]

Soki, on 10 December 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

I love the semantics-arguing as much as everyone else, but it's wholly missing the point:
ArenaNet screws with drop rates in order to artificially inflate the prices on certain desirable goods; pushing more emphasis on the Gem->Gold conversion.

I love the conspiracy theory arguing as much as everyone else (in the same capacity as "Ancient Aliens" should be on Comedy Central), but it's wholly irrelevant and impossible to prove, forget that the gem trade is completely voluntary. If it's not worth it to you there is nothing they can do to make you pay real money, there is nothing they can do to make me pay more than the box price and I have not paid any real money above the box price in GW2. Is it unfair? No, it's capitalism and the way of the industry now.

Daesu, on 10 December 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

The difference between getting your max stat level 80 gear now vs years from now?  That would be like the difference between whether you are running fast enough to stay in the same spot on the gear treadmill or you are running so slow that you are falling behind.  If I am in the latter group, I might as well stop playing altogether since I wont be able to keep up with the grind based on my real life responsibilities and my commitment to the game, etc.

In the end, there is no point playing a game that you don't enjoy playing and I enjoy playing in the toughest areas, provided that I don't kiss the dirt too easily.

Depends on your criteria. Why do you need the best gear possible? If you're saying you want to be able to play one or two hours a week and "keep up" with those that play four to six hours a day you will not be satisfied, you wouldn't even be satisfied with GW1 at that point. If you're a normal player that accepts your situation and simply play the game for the activity alone there isn't a problem, if you have to compare yourself to every other player in the game and only care about the end results you're going to have a problem in every game and make nearly everything grind for yourself. What are you keeping up with? You don't even have to be level 80 to participate in fractals. If you want challenging content it's there, and easy to get to, if you want the best for nothing you're going to be disappointed. To address your exaggeration of a response before you write it, that is not saying everyone should want grind all the time and that grind is the backbone of any game, but that limitations should be understood and accepted.

Unfortunately the case you portray wasn't even true in GW1. It also seems rather odd you claim the difficulty in the fractals is artificially increased and there isn't any real progression or point to the new tier of gear and infusion, yet you make it out to be such a game-breaking deal. If it didn't have value there would be nothing to complain about. Again and again your argument boils down to complaining you can't complete a goal in a short period of time when the goal criteria is completely objective and equal for everyone. It's a simple function of time and you want the result without the time. You have limitations, deal with it like an adult, it isn't a design flaw, you don't have the time to put in to get the output you want. Perhaps it's just denial; as a hint, these threads would be far shorter if people were actually honest about the real issue.

[Daesu]

Trei, on 10 December 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

Do you still not see?
I am already "behind" right now, so far behind that I will never be able to catch up with those with legendaries or whatnot.

But I'm not concerned with catching up to anyone. So technically I can't fall behind anything if I was not trying to compete with anybody now, can I?

The other thing would be those lvl 40 gear I mentioned? They may be subpar stats wise but skins and looks will never be obsolete, for as long as I like them.

I do not get gear for sake of mere stats.

Do you still not understand after so many replies?

Who cares about the ugly legendaries?  I also don't care about catching up with anyone or with any of that cosmetic fluff.  HoM skins are good enough for me and it is the only skin that I use.  What is the point of getting elite skins if you suck?

As long as the game is challenging and I don't suck too much, that is good enough for me.

Edited by Daesu, 10 December 2012 - 08:38 AM.

[Trei]

Daesu, on 10 December 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

Do you still not understand after so many replies?

Who cares about the ugly legendaries?  I also don't care about catching up with anyone or with any of that cosmetic fluff.  HoM skins are good enough for me and it is the only skin that I use.  What is the point of getting elite skins if you suck?

As long as the game is challenging and I don't suck too much, that is good enough for me.

Then do you feel the current exotic quality gear are reasonable for even the average casual player to acquire?

Are exotics stats not enough that you must "grind" for those miserably bit higher numbers on ascended gear?

You want difficult content, you want to be challenged, yet you believe you must have the very maximum stats gear one can get in the game...?

The only valid, undeniable reason one must get ascended gear is for the infusion slots.
The only reason one must get infusion is to push higher and higher into the fractals.

Do the high level fractals have unique rewards not acquirable from low level 1 to 10s fractals?

[Daesu]

Trei, on 10 December 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

Then do you feel the current exotic quality gear are reasonable for even the average casual player to acquire?

Are exotics stats not enough that you must "grind" for those miserably bit higher numbers on ascended gear?

You want difficult content, you want to be challenged, yet you believe you must have the very maximum stats gear one can get in the game...?

The only valid, undeniable reason one must get ascended gear is for the infusion slots.
The only reason one must get infusion is to push higher and higher into the fractals.

Do the high level fractals have unique rewards not acquirable from low level 1 to 10s fractals?

Of course, the more difficult the content the higher the gear requirement.  I don't see why that is so hard to understand.

Fractals currently is the only way to acquire ascended items and it is over-emphasized in the expense of the other content in the game.  I didn't buy this game for fractals and I would love to see all these ascended gear grind go to hell one day.

But that is not a topic for this thread and it has already been discussed to death on the many other threads here.

Edited by Daesu, 10 December 2012 - 09:55 AM.

[Trei]

The topic has basically led to theories about how the game is being manipulated to make acquiring top gear more time consuming, "grindy" if you will, to push people to resort to buying gold instead grinding for them.

Right?

Well all I'm saying is that if that was truly the intention, then they can't really be doing a good job.

These gear are optional in all practical sense of the word, thus the grind to get them would be just as optional.

Otherwise I would be just as compelled to start grinding for them myself or quit in disgust.

Clearly, I'm not.
Neither should you be, unless you want to.

As for other kinds of "nerfs", or bug fixes, my personal stand is that any negative changes to things that were intended to work as they were, are nerfs.

But nerf or fix, I do not expect anet to report everything to me.

Edited by Trei, 10 December 2012 - 11:28 AM.

[Corvindi]

They should have left the best gear (stat-wise) at Exotics, a reasonable end game grind.   They chose not to.

They should have made Ascended gear available through means other than running dungeons.  So far, they have chosen not to (don't tell me they say they're going to make it available through other means in the future, I'll believe it when I see it).

Since they made a new tier of best gear dungeon only they should at least have a WoW-style dungeon finder so players aren't wasting their time standing around LA waiting for a group.  Or better yet, bring Heroes in and let us run the stuff solo if we so choose.

Progression doesn't really bother me that much, but they did this all wrong, and the people who are getting Ascended gear are saying it's very grindy to gather all the mats yourself or get the gold necessary to buy those mats which also sucks.  A little grind is fine.  A little grind can be fun.  From the sound of it, this does not qualify as 'little grind' or 'fun grind'.

[Elend Venture]

I'm already behind a lot of people, I may have 2 80s, but only my guardian has full hotw exotics and keep in mind that I play since headstart. Yet, I work and study and I don't have much time. I do two or three dungeons a week, sometimes I can barely do 1.

I won't say I don't want a legendary weapon and don't think I'll ever acquire one, but I am not grinding for it even. Some people chose to live in the game, others don't.

I don't care about progression, when a new content is released and the level cap is raised to let's say 90, I'll be ok with just crafting a masterwork/rare armorsmith set and just enjoy the content.

Frankly, I don't give a damn about grindy ascended items. If I can experience the new content without grinding for RNG Items, then I'm satisfied. If I can't, I'll find another MMO that doesn't screw up his casual gamers.

[Illein]

Corvindi, on 10 December 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

They should have left the best gear (stat-wise) at Exotics, a reasonable end game grind.   They chose not to.

They should have made Ascended gear available through means other than running dungeons.  So far, they have chosen not to (don't tell me they say they're going to make it available through other means in the future, I'll believe it when I see it).

Since they made a new tier of best gear dungeon only they should at least have a WoW-style dungeon finder so players aren't wasting their time standing around LA waiting for a group.  Or better yet, bring Heroes in and let us run the stuff solo if we so choose.

Progression doesn't really bother me that much, but they did this all wrong, and the people who are getting Ascended gear are saying it's very grindy to gather all the mats yourself or get the gold necessary to buy those mats which also sucks.  A little grind is fine.  A little grind can be fun.  From the sound of it, this does not qualify as 'little grind' or 'fun grind'.

Then again, I don't love ascended gear - not quite, but calling aquiring exotics a "reasonable" grind is being dishonest with yourself as well A full suit of exotics probably ranges between 7-10 gold. For some that's a week of farming in their free time, for other it's an hour or two.

Now that'd probably be too "little" of a grind - and yes, there is such a thing, at least for me.

WoW-Dungeon Finder sucks. It really does. I rather run with guildmates or stand 15 minutes in LA to find a group than to be randomly meshed together with god knows who.

The hero idea *shudders* I sure hope they'll never resort to that sort of cheesy MMO tactic. I want to play with actual PEOPLE not with bots

But they certainly have to fine tune their "grind" mentality - on that I definitely agree. Because right now, it's not exactly my idea of fun to get those materials. I'd rather they put in ALL the gifts from every last dungeon (so it takes you 500 tokens each) into the Legendary recipe and take the T6 mats out - that way you'd at least PLAY the game for it, not just have people buy gold or whatever to get them.

[Daesu]

Trei, on 09 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

A grind is what you make of it.

If I don't enjoy the process, I would be grinding.
But if I do?

This process is what I would want to be doing whether I wanted a specific item out of it or not. Its one of those activities I bought the game to play after all.
It just so happens that the reward I will get is something I want.  

And no, ascended gear is not something I am actively trying to get at the moment, I do not see the necessity for them.

But, as I play the game and participate in fractal dungeons, I will eventually get them.

Meanwhile, I have a seemingly endless list of things I want to do, to experience, that I don't even know which to start first.

That has also been discussed to death on the other threads.  I don't see why that topic has to be talked on every thread.

Yes, as I have mentioned before on other threads, currently not everything can be bought with gold.  But that doesn't mean that we should ignore the other 99% of the items that can be bought with gold.

Just because you, specifically, doesn't see the necessity of them doesn't imply that everyone agrees with you.

Edited by Daesu, 10 December 2012 - 06:11 PM.

[Corvindi]

Illein, on 10 December 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Then again, I don't love ascended gear - not quite, but calling aquiring exotics a "reasonable" grind is being dishonest with yourself as well A full suit of exotics probably ranges between 7-10 gold. For some that's a week of farming in their free time, for other it's an hour or two.

Now that'd probably be too "little" of a grind - and yes, there is such a thing, at least for me.

WoW-Dungeon Finder sucks. It really does. I rather run with guildmates or stand 15 minutes in LA to find a group than to be randomly meshed together with god knows who.

The hero idea *shudders* I sure hope they'll never resort to that sort of cheesy MMO tactic. I want to play with actual PEOPLE not with bots

But they certainly have to fine tune their "grind" mentality - on that I definitely agree. Because right now, it's not exactly my idea of fun to get those materials. I'd rather they put in ALL the gifts from every last dungeon (so it takes you 500 tokens each) into the Legendary recipe and take the T6 mats out - that way you'd at least PLAY the game for it, not just have people buy gold or whatever to get them.

I think the Exotic grind is reasonable at best, but then again, I do have 8 alts that I might have gotten to 80 and geared in the best possible exotics for each class and build...if it weren't for Ascended.  Now I'll just get to 80, throw on some rares, start the next alt and likely quit before they're all at 80.  No way am I doing an Ascended grind for each of them, or even one of them.

With no dungeon finder I will never set foot in a dungeon in this or probably any other game.  Standing around LA spamming /lfg doesn't even remotely amuse me.  I did that enough in Anarchy Online, and even they had the rudiments of a looking for team system that was better than the one we have in Guild Wars 2, and that's saying something, since AO came out in 2001 (not something good, either!).

I love the idea of being able to solo dungeons.  Someone in a thread on the official forums suggested a lockout timer for soloing (with or without Heroes) to prevent people from just running them until our eyes bleed, and that would be acceptable.  Also, I'm a pet class player quite often (hell my thief has the trap that spawns a thief and thieves guild up most of the time and we won't even talk about my clone spazzing Mesmer).  So yeah, Heroes would make me happy.

Anyway, no matter how they eventually make this gear available, at least we can agree on one thing, they have to do something about that grind!

[malevolence]

Corvindi, on 10 December 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

With no dungeon finder I will never set foot in a dungeon in this or probably any other game.  Standing around LA spamming /lfg doesn't even remotely amuse me.  I did that enough in Anarchy Online, and even they had the rudiments of a looking for team system that was better than the one we have in Guild Wars 2, and that's saying something, since AO came out in 2001 (not something good, either!).

gw2lfg.com , your solution.

[Corvindi]

malevolence, on 10 December 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

gw2lfg.com , your solution.

I reluctantly agree that you might have a point.

But I still prefer an ingame system, and for that matter, I'd like a teleport to the dungeon from anywhere in the game world, too.  Yep, I'm too lazy to walk.  Shoot me.  

[Lordkrall]

Corvindi, on 10 December 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

I reluctantly agree that you might have a point.

But I still prefer an ingame system, and for that matter, I'd like a teleport to the dungeon from anywhere in the game world, too.  Yep, I'm too lazy to walk.  Shoot me.  

You mean like how you can press a "Join in Dungeon"  button when the party enters a dungeon?
Oh wait..

[malevolence]

Corvindi, on 10 December 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

I reluctantly agree that you might have a point.

But I still prefer an ingame system, and for that matter, I'd like a teleport to the dungeon from anywhere in the game world, too.  Yep, I'm too lazy to walk.  Shoot me.  

Yes we all prefer an ingame system, inclusing myself. That website is just a temp solution let's say.