10 replies to this topic

[ridculy]

I would like to point out huge problems via gaining ascended gear in World vs World though badges. these problems, I believe, make implementing ascended gear being obtainable though badges prohibitive. there are two issues I would like to point out: first being the fact that badge drops are a function of damage and thus discourage playing support, second is the fact that you can farm badges much to easily though jump puzzles.

As I would not like this thread to degrade into people stating anecdotes on some extreme circumstance I would kindly ask that reply posts please realize that I find the fallowing to be self evident and will not argue these points

1: Support builds are needed in World vs World
2: There are no Support classes, only support builds
3: Manning siege is not a practical way to farm badges over an extended period of time
4: Mass transfers to one sided match ups are bad
5: obtaining ascended gear at t lower rate is unfair and unbalanced


On the issue of badges being damage based. Support builds do not do as much damage as DPS goal based builds. This leads to a very notable imbalance in the amount of "tags"(tag refers to the amount of damage required to gain exp and loot off of a kill) an individual playing support will receive. Running in a party with other players with damage based skills does not solve this issue for the support player, because during the fight's peak the support player is incentivised to heal or lay down support fields that do not do damage, and thus do not gain the player tags. This problem often presents itself in the fallowing way:

"wow I can't believe we whipped them, I have like 10 bags on the ground" said the staff/dagger Elementalist.

"man I only have about 7" said the GS Warrior.

"I have 2... wait no that is a rock, so 1" said the staff/mace Guardian.

the classes could be replaced here by any number of other classes and builds but ranged aoe will see the most tags from a fight, fallowed by melee aoe with there single target counterparts fallowing behind both, then at the back we will have the support.

As for the fact that badges can be farmed via jump puzzles. Players transfer to blow out matches where ebg is held by one server and set up Mesmer portals in the jumping puzzle. this makes it possible for an individual to farm more than 300 badges a day.

And just to end the post I would like to leave you with the fallowing thought. This issue already causes rampant unbalance in the amount of money players receive during world vs world participation. And has been arguably one of the biggest issues in world vs world since the launch of the game. Adding gear (beyond the trinkets already only obtainable though WvW badges) would bring this problem to the forefront, a place that an obvious blatant and severe issue should not be brought.

P.S. also this my main reason for not supporting a 1000 badge commander icon

[DreadlockrastaGW]

ridculy, on 04 December 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

3: Manning siege is not a practical way to farm badges over an extended period of time

wat?

[Vihar]

DreadlockrastaGW, on 04 December 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

wat?

  Yeah......what?

[MrZero]

How can you decide to open a discussion that may result in the community coming up with an equitable solution and;

A - set rules for the discussion that exclude viable reasons why a particular solution will work and;

2 - not provide a solution of your own?

It's kind of like trying to come up with a solution to the worlds impending depletion of oil based energy and saying, "OK let's figure this out but, Wind, Solar, Nuclear, Propane, Methane and Ethanol are off the table."

What about Karma? Most wvw players have a shitload of that lying around.

[ridculy]

please allow me to explain is more detail. it could be argued that no madder your trait/skill build manning siege will always grant you badges at a "good" rate. this is untrue, as i said i would not like to argue this, so i will make this post short and to the point.

in a BEST case scenario one in three people will be on siege for defense of a tower. it is not realistic to assume that a player can man siege in a target rich environment for an extended period of time. due to the fact that not everyone can man siege and enemy players try there best to avoid defensive siege placement

I set the scope of this thread in the hopes that we can stay on point

karma would be a good solution, as this thread it not titled "no ascended gear in world vs world" its not in the scope the of thread

Edited by ridculy, 04 December 2012 - 08:47 PM.

[Global_GW2]

MrZero, on 04 December 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

What about Karma? Most wvw players have a shitload of that lying around.

Well, wouldn't that make the new dungeon obsolete? PVEers also tend to have a ton of karma laying around, and since most all humans take the path of least resistance, they would just stroll into WvW and buy their gear.

[DreadlockrastaGW]

ridculy, on 04 December 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

please allow me to explain is more detail. it could be argued that no madder your trait/skill build manning siege will always grant you badges at a "good" rate. this is untrue, as i said i would not like to argue this, so i will make this post short and to the point.

in a BEST case scenario one in three people will be on siege for defense of a tower. it is not realistic to assume that a player can man siege in a target rich environment for an extended period of time. due to the fact that not everyone can man siege and enemy players try there best to avoid defensive siege placement

I set the scope of this thread in the hopes that we can stay on point

karma would be a good solution, as this thread it not titled "no ascended gear in world vs world" its not in the scope the of thread

It's not hard to drop a arrowcart at a choke point, and rack up some kills outside a keep/tower, I.E. The SW supply camp on all boarderlands, and the SE one as well. As for the people who don't get a chance to man the siege, if you set it up you get priority when placing everything but golems. Do you even wvw?

Edited by DreadlockrastaGW, 04 December 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[MrZero]

If you drop the siege yourself, you can kick a player off it when you want to use it. I play a pure melee warrior. I drop an arrowcart near the entrance of the hotspots of the evening. I also make sure cannons are built. When a large force is headed to one of the placements, I get my ass on the siege. When the cannon goes down, I jump on my arrowcart. If people don't like getting kicked off, they can spend the money to drop siege themselves.

The big problem I have is that most of my kills without siege are in open field battles. As a melee player, I am on the front. The front keeps moving and when I get a drop if I don't see it because I am paying attention to the fight, I may never get it because I am not longer in the area. I won't disagree that some help to support classes would be a good thing.  It's a viable solution you could present without trying to rule out all debate whatsoever.

Global_GW2, on 04 December 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

Well, wouldn't that make the new dungeon obsolete? PVEers also tend to have a ton of karma laying around, and since most all humans take the path of least resistance, they would just stroll into WvW and buy their gear.

People who love to run dungeons will run the dungeons anyway. People who are afraid (for lack of a better term) to fight players won't. Worse case scenario, someone who usually only does pve stuff enters wvw, sees that people aren't like an spvp team that gets nuts on people that don't know what's up and they find out they like it. If they don't, they get their gear and move on.

Almost win win there.

[ridculy]

Dreadlock your progressing the thread into anecdotal happenstance. lets say that we do admit as truth that the only way a support player can gain badges is to man siege... in a choke...while players are attacking... and the gates are not going down. this is not WvW 100% of the time. your train of thought is anecdotal and not empirical. you cannot expect every player that runs a support trait/skills to  build and man siege for a week to gain gear when its released into wvw.

"I won't disagree that some help to support classes would be a good thing.  It's a viable solution you could present without trying to rule out all debate whatsoever."

Zero i think where in agreement mostly, I just wish to move along the thread asap and not get taken off track. our goals in the forum may differ and thats OK, deep down you know i love u.

also i am a commander of Blackgate's Knight of the temples with over 700 hours logged in world vs world maps alone.

I think we can ALL agree that arrowcarts cannot be the solution to this problem for everyone that participates in world vs world running a support build.

[Killminusnine]

Yes, support builds get hosed in the badge farming department.  Yes, it should be fixed so that contributions other than damage count towards gaining badges.

Unfortunately, there is no way in hell ANet is going to do create and implement a fix for this problem.  We'll be lucky if they give us a new map or some fluffy WvW titles.  WvW will likely be dead before anything else is accomplished.

[DreadlockrastaGW]

ridculy, on 04 December 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

Dreadlock your progressing the thread into anecdotal happenstance. lets say that we do admit as truth that the only way a support player can gain badges is to man siege... in a choke...while players are attacking... and the gates are not going down. this is not WvW 100% of the time. your train of thought is anecdotal and not empirical. you cannot expect every player that runs a support trait/skills to  build and man siege for a week to gain gear when its released into wvw.

"I won't disagree that some help to support classes would be a good thing.  It's a viable solution you could present without trying to rule out all debate whatsoever."

Zero i think where in agreement mostly, I just wish to move along the thread asap and not get taken off track. our goals in the forum may differ and thats OK, deep down you know i love u.

also i am a commander of Blackgate's Knight of the temples with over 700 hours logged in world vs world maps alone.

I think we can ALL agree that arrowcarts cannot be the solution to this problem for everyone that participates in world vs world running a support build.

Never said arrowcarts were the solution, just saying you were wrong when you said "3: Manning siege is not a practical way to farm badges over an extended period of time"