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Boring WvWvW - a flashpoint

wuvwuv wvwvw wm war machine

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#1 CharliePrince

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:28 PM

A tremendous post on the flashpoint that has hit everyone in this dying game and just because ArenaNET loves policing their own forums and deletes posting to the degree you cannot imagine, here is an actual post you may or may not see depending on how quickly AN moderators censor it. and yes the poster is indeed War Machine's Lead Officer as I have checked his account and game-name

https://forum-en.gui...vwuv/Boring-WvW

I am WM-GW2 lead officer, “Jang Gun”.

It appears that ANet seem to not realize the seriousness of the situcation. When the game first came out, GW2 has surprised us with the great quality it had. But that was it. GW2 now has become a game that people find boring after a 2 month play time. Also a PvE centric game.

The problem is much larger in the WvW area (not even going to talk about sPvP since it is frustrating). A WvW game that gives no motivation to the players will not give any fun to them. However, the most recent patch was more towards the PvE contents. We see this as a big problem. As an example, War Machine had about 1,000 players in GW2 when we first joined the game, but with the boring repetitive non-rewarding WvW, we are now down to 50 players. I can assure everyone that with no changes to the WvW area, the remaining WvW players will mostly abandon the game. I, also, feel that “Why should I do this boring thing?”.

I have no idea what ANet’s WvW director has in mind. Is he/she thinking that we are some mindless herds of sheep that plays the same thing on the same map every single day? I should’ve noticed it when there were 3 maps that were identical to one another… My loyalty to ANet is hitting the floor these days.

As we are waiting for months for some patches that can be done in a few days, I will be suggesting some ideas here.

1. A unique reward only for WvW (seems like PvE and sPvP has some, but why not WvW)?
2. Raid UI (the most basic thing that was supposed to be implemented, this is nonsense)
3. Motivaction to WvW (something like a buff to all server members – increase drop rate in dungeons?)
4. Guild cape system (the current GUILD system is total crap, I feel sympathy for it)
5. Implement a temple type mechanism on the center island of each borderlands (simliar to orbs but can be fought over constantly)
6. New MAP (How do we even have 3 out of 4 maps to be exactly the same)
7. 20v20 structured PvP (2 towers, 2 supplies, and a center flag)
8. Give points based on player kills (not just capping objectives)
9. Rankings of players and/or guilds for WvW
take out 8. because I think there are already some of them in PvE area, like Metrica Province. The golem fight game.
Currently in WvW, the most important factor in playing is “Why do I have to WvW?”. This is very important.
When you think about it, there are simple ideas to give motivation and fun and ANet can give fast updates in new contents. But is the reason that they are not providing such is because they lack the skills or they don’t try hard enough or they aren’t motivated themselves? Rather wait for a PC game expansion.

last, i will believe ArenaNet.
##. don’t delete this writing.

#2 Cake is Cake

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:24 AM

And the point of this thread is...?

#3 CharliePrince

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:27 AM

View PostCake is Cake, on 05 December 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

And the point of this thread is...?

preservation ;)

#4 Arngrim Einheri

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:31 AM

They are adding new content and updates for WvWvW in January and February. Let's hope they sort out most of the problems.

#5 MrZero

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:51 AM

Seriously,

All games of this genre are doomed to falling off a cliff 3-4 months after release. Welcome to the console effect.

#6 Beastgate

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:54 AM

Once competitive PvP fails miserably, I hope Anet diverts their attention to WvW instead.

#7 Gerroh

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:03 AM

View PostFrom 04 December 2012 - 11:28 PM:

3. Motivaction to WvW (something like a buff to all server members – increase drop rate in dungeons?)

Uh, we already have this, is no one aware of that? It's not increased drops in dungeons, it's broader, and is a considerably big help near the end of the week.

I see the point, but the reason the borderlands are the same is to keep a decent amount of balance.
It's also pvp, the people saying it's "grind" make me want to flip a table and throw my chair at their heads. You pvp because you enjoy pvp(this includes wanting to climb the ladder), there's no other reason for it.

Changes should be made to improve wvw, of course, however, I am fairly certain Anet will make an effort to add new things. I read somewhere the other day that they did have plans for new things to add, but I can't remember where I read it.

In summary; I'm fine with WvW, it sure as shit isn't a "grind", and I hope they add new stuff in the coming months.

Edited by Gerroh, 05 December 2012 - 05:06 AM.


#8 Beastgate

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:04 AM

View PostGerroh, on 05 December 2012 - 05:03 AM, said:

Uh, we already have this, is no one aware of that? It's not increased drops in dungeons, it's broader, and is a considerably big help near the end of the week.
It's been bugged for so many people that I'm not surprised if WM never noticed it.
Supposedly it was fixed in yesterday's patch, but many people still have the problem.

#9 MrZero

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:07 AM

View PostGerroh, on 05 December 2012 - 05:03 AM, said:

Uh, we already have this, is no one aware of that? It's not increased drops in dungeons, it's broader, and is a considerably big help near the end of the week.

Most of those are in no way significant. For example, right now we have 6% increased gold drop. Nothing in this game really drops gold. Hell, most things don't even drop multiple silver. For every 1 silver that drops, I get 6 copper. What the hell am I going to buy with 6 copper? That is how a person looks at it when you try to use those buffs as a reason to get them into WvW.

#10 Anzuri

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:20 AM

^ Agreed those buffs are hopeless. As hopeless as the outmanned buff.

Thanks for putting this here OP I like the post. Its crazy how people are dropping like flies yet the fix is so simple. Perhaps because its not a monthly sub game anet feel that people will come back when they do add the changes. But this has become just like it did before launch. SILENCE. Anet all we want to hear are reassurances. Tell us what you are doing about it and direct it directly at us not in the forms of your usual interviews etc, have a direct message to players, blog update for players etc.

When Anet messed up with the ascended gear and fotm what did they say? "we made a mistake blah blah" I may be mistaken but I never heard one "sorry".  How bout a sorry we messed around with your faith in us and in the game and went against what we said we would or didn't say what we would do more clearly. People will have a heck of a lot more respect if you did this.

Edit: Shame on you people for showing me PlanetSide 2. Just when my addiction to gw2 was ceasing and I was getting back to IRL :). Must resist urge to try ps2

Edited by Anzuri, 05 December 2012 - 06:10 AM.


#11 Gerroh

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:22 AM

View PostMrZero, on 05 December 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

Most of those are in no way significant. For example, right now we have 6% increased gold drop. Nothing in this game really drops gold. Hell, most things don't even drop multiple silver. For every 1 silver that drops, I get 6 copper. What the hell am I going to buy with 6 copper? That is how a person looks at it when you try to use those buffs as a reason to get them into WvW.

If people aren't into what WvW is then the only rewards that'll get them there would be game-breaking rewards.

#12 Beastgate

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:30 AM

Don't have to be game-breaking, just better than anything else. Players will always do what gets them the best rewards, and silly ArenaNet thinks they can change that somehow. Players have found a great farming spot? They'll nerf it, but people will just move on to another one. It's pretty much been a cat-and-mouse game with ArenaNet doing whatever they can to stop players from trying to grind. Apparently they gave up recently and decided to just nerf drop rates overall.

#13 Tellia

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:39 AM

i certainly agree about wvw becoming stale. but i also dont see whats so great about this post. i mean, is anything being said in it that hasnt been said 10000 times here on guru in the last few months, and in more detail? and the suggestions part is pretty much a joke, no elaboration and little thought put into them. guild cape system to make people join wvw?

im all for posts that address the issues with wvw and suggest improvements. this post definitely has both. but it does neither well.

and to be honest, i couldnt care less who wrote the post. what the post says should dictate its worth and not who typed it out.

#14 chuckles79

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:40 AM

New maps is the first, best thing that will help with this.  Yes the maps will have bugs at first and there will be exploits; but that's gaming in general.
The current game is so static that it's resembling chess more and more.

I like WvW, and I will continue to enjoy it.

However it's becoming so ritualized, especially in Tier 1; that I can say that it truly does not offer anything new for me or anyone else I play with.

#15 MrZero

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:40 AM

View PostGerroh, on 05 December 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

If people aren't into what WvW is then the only rewards that'll get them there would be game-breaking rewards.

That's the conundrum. There is a thread in this very forum section with a PvE player complaining because he has to go into wvw to get 100% map completion. That just shows you how badly some people want to have nothing to do with PvP even if it is as mellow as wvw.

Personally, sometimes I feel like sticking a screwdriver in my eye when I am fighting mobs in a PvE zone. I roll my eyes every time I am running in WVW and  I get agro from a mob. I hate fighting scripted fights that much. It's not a dig on ANet or other players, that's just me. Of course, I was the main tank for a raiding guild in wow for two expansions so that might explain it.

#16 LavaSquid

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:55 AM

View Postchuckles79, on 05 December 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

New maps is the first, best thing that will help with this.  Yes the maps will have bugs at first and there will be exploits; but that's gaming in general.
The current game is so static that it's resembling chess more and more.

I like WvW, and I will continue to enjoy it.

However it's becoming so ritualized, especially in Tier 1; that I can say that it truly does not offer anything new for me or anyone else I play with.

Yea, new map looks far more interesting and attractive than new rewards to me. I need something to give fresh experience, not running around the same map for new rewards.

#17 neostars

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:24 AM

I feel 100% the same way as OP.
WvW definitely need spice up ASAP.
Personal stats progression is on top of my list.

#18 Impmon

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:56 PM

It isn't just wvw try levelling an alt.  Remember those newb zones that had overflows in late summer ?  Now you're lucky to find another player.  Some events you just have to skip because they can't be soloed.

I can see anet condensing servers in the near future. Look at the wvw forums.  Practically every server is asking for people to move there.    We'll all be placed on the same servers soon and some will be deleted.

#19 Beastgate

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:30 PM

View PostImpmon, on 05 December 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

It isn't just wvw try levelling an alt.  Remember those newb zones that had overflows in late summer ?  Now you're lucky to find another player.  Some events you just have to skip because they can't be soloed.

I can see anet condensing servers in the near future. Look at the wvw forums.  Practically every server is asking for people to move there. We'll all be placed on the same servers soon and some will be deleted.
Having to merge servers would look very bad for the game and ArenaNet, so I don't think it will happen despite the many advantages of it (and not just for WvW).

#20 Impmon

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:37 PM

It happens to many mmo's except for others it doesn't happen to a few years after they're out :P  in this case not even half a year...

#21 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:38 PM

I agree with everything said about WvW, and we just need someone to LISTEN to us.
In present state WvW becomes more and more boring with every passing day, it`s a shame really since as idea it was so promising !

Btw server bonuses are still bugged at least for me i haven`t seen any for quite some time. Also Outmanned buff is ridiculous you are facing much stronger opponent and you get increased XP, karma, MF (who thought of this) ? ? ?
One more point, drops in GW2 are generally bad but those you get in WvW are outright ridiculous, full lvl 80 character get`s drops for lvl 11-15 what`s up with that !!!

#22 Beastgate

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:45 PM

I think the drop's level is based on the level of the character you killed. And the outmanned buff's karma boost doesn't even work.

#23 Impmon

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:46 PM

I think the problem with GW2 is this, they tried to be a jack of all trades and master of none.  

They went against the grain compared to other MMO's, taking what was successful from them & trying to do their own thing while claiming they won't be like them.  Now they're implementing changes to make themselves just like other MMOs in the hopes it prolongs their game life thus alienating a large % of their players.  Remember another game that did that ?  Star Wars Galaxies.  Where is that game now .... ?  

1.  New WVW Maps

2.  Consolidate servers so when you queue you're randomly placed on a team with people from other servers. Similar to WOW when you queue'd for Alterac Valley.  Look at the forums almost every server is asking for people.

3.  Provide tournemant mode for WVW to allow organized guild groups to fight each other.  They could create a smaller map for this.

4.  Badges of Honor are awarded like karma, automatically going to player storage.

5.  Add abilities that remove / reveal stealth & prevent it from being spammed repeatedly

6.  Reduce time frame for matches.  Lets say 12 hour matches.  Once the match is complete the victor gets exp, karma, badges of honor as reward.

7.  New & unique to WVW weapons & armor better then what is currently available with better skins.

8.  PVP exp.  On top of regular exp you'll earn pvp exp points.  These pvp exp points can be used to purchase abilities & ranks (titles) for your character.  To make things more interesting they could req certain ranks for specific siege weapons so that not just anyone can buy a ram.  It'd make siege gear more valuable and less of a throw away that it is currently.  

PvP ranks.  Commander - Can switch perspective to any player on their side for scouting purposes.  Can allocate supplies from keep to keep where dolyaks will begin to spawn and transport those supplies to another keep that you must be guarded.  Can purchase any type of siege gear & deploy them.  Can talk openly in chat to direct the team.  Commander title would also grant stat bonuses.  You will no longer purchase this for 100g it will be earned.  Would have unique commander only armor & weapons.  Can command npc guards, move here, attack this, follow, etc so they're not static.

Lieutenant - Can buy all siege gear.  Can talk in chat /yell to direct players and issue instructions from commanders.  Can teleport instantly to any commander with a very long cooldown to reuse.  Also has unique armor & weapons.

just few ideas...

#24 Aetou

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:02 PM

I'm not sure what the solution is, but I am starting to find things quite stale as I defend the same objectives every day for a month against basically the same sorts of attacks (there are only so many ways to attack RQ-WC that have any chance of success) from the same people... There needs to be both more variety and more reward (I want to feel like spending 4 hours defending towers while they upgrade makes more of a difference than just logging on 3 hours later to see they got flipped and all that work became wasted.)  I don't really want more loot when I say I want more rewards (although parity with PVE would be nice) but I do want to feel like my efforts have more value than just adding an extra 150 points to a total of 200k.

#25 ayaprei

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:23 PM

Anet should reward for hardcore-wvw-player. such as ascended rings how could they get this if they not grind like crazy? if they do what about wvw?
my guild lost lots wvw members after fotm show up.
also badge should drop easier. so ppl would think like "i want soldier gears, where can i get that? oh yes badge from wvwvw!" instead of AC or karma.

#26 Calumet

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:26 AM

I agree with Jang and have honestly myself thought about giving GW2 an extended leave of absence until I hear about WvWvW getting updated especially after today where it was suggested to me to do just jumping puzzles because there is more profit in it than repeating the same fighting routines each week.

It's got really old going into WvWvW and it seems to feel more like a chore to help my server in WvWvW than a game with nothing new to change things up, not to mention the pitiful rewards we get for playing WvWvW.

#27 vengeance22

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:32 AM

I love WvW but it has been brought to a point now where I want to stab myself in the eye....every night got take a supply camp 3 mins before flip, lose it minute after flip, try for a tower if you get it great but dont defend it after flip..if you dont get it go get the supply camp you just got 12 minutes ago before the last flip just to lose it after the next flip.....

they need the camps to give 0 points but required to siege the matching tower, then you need 2 towers addition to your own to take a keep and so on....and points should be given longer you hold a tower/keep then just grabbing the quick points just before the timer flip and then losing it a minute after. Basicly a defenders bonus (one thats means more then the crap they offer now), scrub this stupid 15minute timer...all it promtes is flipping and not defending.

Edited by vengeance22, 06 December 2012 - 03:33 AM.


#28 Trei

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:45 AM

Mmmmm... fractal wvw...

#29 Nirvii

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:21 AM

Anet gotta admit people who play WvW mostlikely dont have time to PvE. They need to make a living out of WvW also.
Easy solution
-Make more npc for exchange WvW badges with PvE dungeon items
-Make lootbag has chance to drop ascended ring as well as a npc for badges exchange of ascended back
(For how much badges for each item, that's the thing they gotta decide themselves)

This way, people who WvW can still do WvW without the need of going PvE. Better reward please! Dont let WvW dying away, Fix it before it's too late!

#30 Obscure One

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:51 AM

Well there's good news and there's bad news...

The Bad news is the game in it's current state discourages players to play more than I'd say 4-5 hours a day. It takes a very minimal amount of time to knock out the daily rewards, and the rest of your time is best wasted on grinding toward monthly rewards. So about 30-60 min to knock out that daily and about 2 hours of grind work toward that monthly until you get to bored and go play WvW for about 2 hours...and get bored. Then go play something like Skyrim or ME3 multiplayer with the rest of your free time. Unless you're like me and only have about 4-5 hours to game in a day anyhow.

The Good news is twofold. One, the game is "Pay To Play" and there's no monthly subscription fee, so once you're bored with it, you can just stop playing it and just go play something else. Two, the developers are continually patching, improving, bug fixing, and producing entirely new content on a very regular basis, and since all that work is after the point of purchase, for us the consumer it's literally free content...content that will be there if we wait two weeks to come back to the game or two years.

ANet knows their game is boring, they know their game doesn't have enough content, they know that players are losing interest, and they most definitely know they've broken their word leading to a catastrophic divide in a fan base that took the better part of a decade to assemble. Frankly put, Guild Wars 2 took quite a large measure of investment in terms of time, money, and clinicly obsessive work ethics, none of which ANet nor NCSOFT planned not to see ROI (return on investment) for. The game just flat out wasn't ready...maybe once it is we'll see an influx of new and old players who can forgive Arena Net for the bold borderline illegal statements on the design philosophy of a product that almost was.

Let's hope Arena Net is capable of keeping me entertained rather than justifying my disappointment in them by failing to achieve the greatness they so adamantly claimed GW2 would be...

"We’re a company of passionate gamers with one mission: to make Guild Wars 2 the best MMORPG ever created."'

-Mike O'Brien, Design Manifesto


Mr. O'Brien, you and your team certainly have your work cut out for ya...




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