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Why am I forced to run Fractals? (WvW Related)


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#1 Drtrider

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:43 PM

First, take a look at this small summary of Fractal gear: http://dulfy.net/201...fusion-recipes/

I have about ~400 hours of time spent in WvW. That's where I enjoy to play the game. However, to stay at the top of my game, I want to make sure I'm in the best gear I can get.
However, all the newest and greatest gear can only be found in 20+ Fractals. This is ridiculous, in my opinion.

Why force a player to head out and grind the days away to stay in top-tear gear? Let me spend my backstock of 700+ WvW tokens on equivalent gear.

So this leads to my question to the WvW community, would you like to see the ability to grab stat-equivalent gear in WvW or more items to spend your tokens on?

Second question, Has any one heard of them adding such an option or new WvW rewards in the future?

#2 Gerroh

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:46 PM

You're not forced.

#3 Desild

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:50 PM

Oh please... Do you actually need "Top Gear" for WvW? Beyond exotics? The stat bonus of the Ascended items is not worth the costs, nor is the performance gain you would theoretically gain out of them.

#4 Illein

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:09 PM

They already announced that they plan to implement a way to get your hands on ascended gear through other means (WvW among them) than Fractals and admitted it was a mistake to introduce the new gear exclusively attainable through that new dungeon.

Hope that helps.

#5 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

Yeah back pack and rings wouldn`t make such a big difference but once we get people with full set of Ascended gear difference will be quite big (30% or so) !

I`m getting to lvl 10 or so in Fractals with hope i will snatch those rings and make enough tokens so i can get backpack, I WILL NOT even try to infuse the stuff, since once i get rings and backpack i will never go inside fractals again !
Infusion matters only inside of dungeon since no agony anywhere else !

And yes they said they will introduce Ascended gear like drops in WvW, but how, when or what hoops we gonna need to jump to get it nobody knows since they haven`t released any info about that !!!

#6 TGIFrisbie

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:11 PM

This isn't the game you bought.  This is the game Anet has decided they want you to play, after they sold you the game you thought you were buying.

Man up, its a gear tread mill now.   They want to lure WoW players to this game which is LOL.  Gear grind players will always go with the best gear grind game on the market, WoW.  

We all got suckered.

#7 Gerroh

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:25 PM

View PostTGIFrisbie, on 05 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

This isn't the game you bought.  This is the game Anet has decided they want you to play, after they sold you the game you thought you were buying.

Man up, its a gear tread mill now.   They want to lure WoW players to this game which is LOL.  Gear grind players will always go with the best gear grind game on the market, WoW.  

We all got suckered.

Have you ever played any other video game ever?
The "grind" in GW2 is quite light compared to other RPGs, MMO or not.

#8 TGIFrisbie

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:38 PM

View PostGerroh, on 05 December 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

Have you ever played any other video game ever?
The "grind" in GW2 is quite light compared to other RPGs, MMO or not.

Nope, only been playing MMOs since 1999.  Help me understand?

This game was sold to have no gear tread mill.  They actually went on and on about how they removed as much tedium as they could.  Have you ever researched a game BEFORE you bought it?  Maybe that is the issue here, not me?

I have played more MMOs than you have fingers and toes, you?  Hell toss in your arms, legs, hands, feet and head.  Torso too.  Still played more.  However, you can't change the topic.  The game I bought is not the game they provide 3 months later, simple as that.  The game they advertised prior to and at release is not the game I have.  The topic is about why anyone has to do PvE content in order to PvP (WvW *IS* a PvP environment).

WvW gear should be capped to Exotic stat levels.  Nuff said.  Bring your shineys, but be on equal footing.

Enjoy trying to change the topic instead of being substantive on the one at hand.

Edited by TGIFrisbie, 05 December 2012 - 08:46 PM.


#9 Gerroh

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:40 PM

View PostTGIFrisbie, on 05 December 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Nope, only been playing MMOs since 1999.  Help me understand?

This game was sold to have no gear tread mill.  They actually went on and on about how they removed as much tedium as they could.  Have you ever researched a game BEFORE you bought it?  Maybe that is the issue here, not me?

I have played more MMOs than you have fingers and toes, you?  Hell toss in your arms, legs, hands, feet and head.  Torso too.  Still played more.  However, you can't change the topic.  The game I bought is not the game they provide 3 months later, simple as that.  The game they advertised prior to and at release is not the game I have.  The topic is about why anyone has to do PvE content in order to PvP (WvW *IS* a PvP environment).

WvW gear should be capped to Exotic stat levels.  Nuff said.  Bring your shineys, but be on equal footing.

Enjoy trying to change the topic instead of being substantive on the one at hand.

It's entirely a matter of opinion how "grindy" something is. If you have legitimate proof you've been lied to and mislead, demand a refund or take it to court. If you actually have a case, you'll win at least one of those two.
When I think of the games I've played, specifically single player RPGs, I remember there being tons of long-term goals that could be described as "grindy", but they didn't feel that way because I enjoyed the gameplay, as I am with GW2. If I get bored of a game, I stop playing it and I'm comfortable with those long term rewards not being achieved, as they are entirely optional. If you are not enjoying the game then the game is not for you. What ideas you've conjured up in your head about what GW2 was going to be is entirely your fault.

#10 Lalnuir

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:28 PM

The biggest thing that pisses me off about the new ascended rings is that they drop as account bound. If you want them you have to keep running fractals until the ring you want drops.
You can not get an ascended ring  that you don't want drop then sell it in order to buy the one you do want.
You can not earn money from anywhere and buy the rings you want on the trading post.

If you want a certain ascended ring then you must run fractals over and over and pray that the RNG is nice to you. This could take 10 hours or it could take 200 hours.

There is no run fractals and buy the ring you want with X number of tokens. There is no farm X amount of gold and buy the ring off another player. There is only grind fractals till the RNG takes pity on you or gtfo.

Before fractals you could do nothing but WvW and still be on even footing with everyone else. Don't like the invader sets you can save your gold and buy the set you want off the trading post. Sure it's a lot slower than hanging out in cursed shore for awhile but you could do it. Crafting, dungeons, WvW or simply gold farming where all viable ways to reach max gear.

Currently if you want top tier gear you HAVE to grind fractals and that is just bull shit.

#11 Zheo

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:43 PM

View PostTGIFrisbie, on 05 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

This isn't the game you bought.  This is the game Anet has decided they want you to play, after they sold you the game you thought you were buying.

Man up, its a gear tread mill now.   They want to lure WoW players to this game which is LOL.  Gear grind players will always go with the best gear grind game on the market, WoW.  

We all got suckered.

I know your post is serious, but when I read the first line of your post I just through of Obi-Wan Kenobi waving his hand and saying 'these aren't the droids you're looking for"

#12 Illein

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:14 AM

View PostLalnuir, on 07 December 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

The biggest thing that pisses me off about the new ascended rings is that they drop as account bound. If you want them you have to keep running fractals until the ring you want drops.
You can not get an ascended ring  that you don't want drop then sell it in order to buy the one you do want.
You can not earn money from anywhere and buy the rings you want on the trading post.

If you want a certain ascended ring then you must run fractals over and over and pray that the RNG is nice to you. This could take 10 hours or it could take 200 hours.

There is no run fractals and buy the ring you want with X number of tokens. There is no farm X amount of gold and buy the ring off another player. There is only grind fractals till the RNG takes pity on you or gtfo.

Before fractals you could do nothing but WvW and still be on even footing with everyone else. Don't like the invader sets you can save your gold and buy the set you want off the trading post. Sure it's a lot slower than hanging out in cursed shore for awhile but you could do it. Crafting, dungeons, WvW or simply gold farming where all viable ways to reach max gear.

Currently if you want top tier gear you HAVE to grind fractals and that is just bull shit.

If they were sellable/buyable you'd have all the other people whine about how it's only been introduced to the game for the cash shop ;D

Doomed if they do, doomed if they don't.

But acquiring them from other places but the fractals should be patched asap, I'd agree with that.

#13 Lalnuir

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:43 PM

View PostIllein, on 08 December 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

If they were sellable/buyable you'd have all the other people whine about how it's only been introduced to the game for the cash shop ;D

Doomed if they do, doomed if they don't.

But acquiring them from other places but the fractals should be patched asap, I'd agree with that.

But it wouldn't be introduced only for the cash shop, sure you could throw money at arena-net or a 3rd party site and buy it that way or you could farm the gold your self or you could run fractals if that is what you want.

#14 Illein

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:47 PM

View PostLalnuir, on 08 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

But it wouldn't be introduced only for the cash shop, sure you could throw money at arena-net or a 3rd party site and buy it that way or you could farm the gold your self or you could run fractals if that is what you want.

I don't see how that negates what I said.

#15 beadnbutter32

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:36 PM

Falls right in with how they crowed that they would not release the game untill it was done, yet now we know tons of things have been released that are far from finished.  They claim alternative ways of getting this stuff will be added someday.  Sounds awfully unfinished to me.

Have to?  I guess your not familiar with social games, things  like social status and status items.  Please retire that tired argument.

#16 Lalnuir

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:11 PM

View PostIllein, on 08 December 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

I don't see how that negates what I said.

In my opinion there wouldn't be any where near the number of pissed off players if they made the rings sellable instead of account bound. I disagree with your doomed if they do doomed if they don't comment.

#17 Taargkrizzt

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:14 PM

Seems they could care less about wvwvw'ers. How long since they removes the relics becourse they could'nt be arsed to deal with hackers? Surely they could have figures something out by now if they wanted to.

#18 Illein

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:30 PM

View PostLalnuir, on 08 December 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

In my opinion there wouldn't be any where near the number of pissed off players if they made the rings sellable instead of account bound. I disagree with your doomed if they do doomed if they don't comment.

Well I can't prove you wrong on that, so I'll concede that point to you, if it helps. ;) Not my opinion, as I think the amount of people who'd have spun a cash shop conspiracy out of it - is quite high, but that's entirely subjective to how I feel about it.

Good news for everyone, though it's really nothing set in stone:

"If it is any consolation I am on scale 22 and have accrued over1600 fractal tokens and not yet gotten a ring either. It is RNG with the Jade Maw.
We are exploring alternatives to the current system." - Robert Hrouda, ArenaNet


https://forum-en.gui...irst#post947938

Edited by Illein, 08 December 2012 - 07:55 PM.


#19 SirGamesalot

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:37 PM

View PostAlex Dimitri, on 05 December 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Yeah back pack and rings wouldn`t make such a big difference but once we get people with full set of Ascended gear difference will be quite big (30% or so) !

I`m getting to lvl 10 or so in Fractals with hope i will snatch those rings and make enough tokens so i can get backpack, I WILL NOT even try to infuse the stuff, since once i get rings and backpack i will never go inside fractals again !
Infusion matters only inside of dungeon since no agony anywhere else !

And yes they said they will introduce Ascended gear like drops in WvW, but how, when or what hoops we gonna need to jump to get it nobody knows since they haven`t released any info about that !!!

Actually, each tier only has about 8% higher stats.


@above
Thanks! That's great news.
I am scale 24 and have gotten about 2,1k tokens, still no ring here either.

#20 LordBlades

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:44 PM

My 2 cents on the matter:

To the people saying you don't need  ascended to WvW: You might not need them, but that doesn't mean people won't want them. When you try to be really good at something, you usually want to maximize your chances for success in every way you can. Having to choose between doing a part of the game you don't enjoy (fractals) in order to get the best chances (gear) to win at the part of the game you enjpy (WvW) and accepting you have a lower chance to win is bad design for a game. If tomorrow Anet implemented something like 'unless you have PvP rank 20 you get a 10% decrease in all stats in any explorable dungeon' people would rage, but that's exactly what's happening with ascended in WvW (unless you spend x amount of time in Fractals, you get lower stats).

To the people saying ascended is the end of the world, I don't think it is. Yes, it's sort of going back on a promise, but maybe it's necessary. The forums were full with bored people claiming they hand nothing to do once reaching full exotics. Without an incentive those people would leave. Less people means an emptier game world, less money for Anet and therefore less content for us. Yes, Anet screwed up the introcution of ascended items, and we should let them know that. But there's no guarantee they can't make it right with further iterations. Of course there's no guarantee the next iterations won't be even more horrible failures than before. Thing is, there's no subscription fee, so a 'wait and see' approach costs nothing.

#21 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 04:35 PM

View PostSirGamesalot, on 08 December 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

Actually, each tier only has about 8% higher stats.


@above
Thanks! That's great news.
I am scale 24 and have gotten about 2,1k tokens, still no ring here either.

Well the math most people come up with is, per 3 items power up is 7-8% (and i was talkin` about when entire Ascended gear gets available) !!!
That means 9 more items, if power progression stays same (3 items 7-8%) then 4x7-8% makes total of 28-32% (not counting weapons, but they will add even more) !!!

#22 Bloodtau

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

You aren't.
Move along people, nothing to see here.

#23 Asudementio

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 05:33 PM

View PostDrtrider, on 05 December 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

First, take a look at this small summary of Fractal gear: http://dulfy.net/201...fusion-recipes/

I have about ~400 hours of time spent in WvW. That's where I enjoy to play the game. However, to stay at the top of my game, I want to make sure I'm in the best gear I can get.
However, all the newest and greatest gear can only be found in 20+ Fractals. This is ridiculous, in my opinion.

Why force a player to head out and grind the days away to stay in top-tear gear? Let me spend my backstock of 700+ WvW tokens on equivalent gear.

So this leads to my question to the WvW community, would you like to see the ability to grab stat-equivalent gear in WvW or more items to spend your tokens on?

Second question, Has any one heard of them adding such an option or new WvW rewards in the future?

They said they were going to add different options to obtain ascended gear

#24 Pyraeus

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 07:01 PM

A thing that annoys me is that there is daily & monthly PvP, and about double the people do WvW, but no daily & monthly WvW. If daily PvP is in, they should have daily WvW. us WvW'ers need something to aim for each day and month.
EDIT: to stay on topic, they do force you to run fractals for your normal monthly too. I have never earned a monthly thing, because there is always one type of thing  I can't get. this time, its the fractals.
So now, if you don't like fractals, you automatically don't get your monthly since its compulsory for your monthly.

Edited by Pyraeus, 08 December 2012 - 07:03 PM.


#25 Falfyrel

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 07:13 PM

View PostAlex Dimitri, on 08 December 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

Well the math most people come up with is, per 3 items power up is 7-8% (and i was talkin` about when entire Ascended gear gets available) !!!
That means 9 more items, if power progression stays same (3 items 7-8%) then 4x7-8% makes total of 28-32% (not counting weapons, but they will add even more) !!!

You serious?

Each Ascended item has 8% higher stats (approximately) than an Exotic. This means that one Ascended item, alone, makes up a fraction of 8% in terms of the total stats added to your character - maybe something like 0.7%, though that's not hard math whatsoever. If a player got full Ascended items, then they still wouldn't have an 8% stat bonus over someone with Exotics, because base stats are still a thing.

I may not like Ascended items too much but this is getting sensationalist.

#26 Lycrus

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 07:13 PM

View PostPyraeus, on 08 December 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

A thing that annoys me is that there is daily & monthly PvP, and about double the people do WvW, but no daily & monthly WvW. If daily PvP is in, they should have daily WvW. us WvW'ers need something to aim for each day and month.
EDIT: to stay on topic, they do force you to run fractals for your normal monthly too. I have never earned a monthly thing, because there is always one type of thing  I can't get. this time, its the fractals.
So now, if you don't like fractals, you automatically don't get your monthly since its compulsory for your monthly.

this is kind of MEGA silly. if you dont like collecting..you dont get the daily. you dont like events? no daily...what about killing npcs? ups..no daily.

AND the daily is doable in WvW, there are plenty of different mobs, there are lots of events and notes to be farmed. all in WvW. Do you expect to get daily from just standing in one place? and why is going fractals impossible? If you dont like doing the dungeon part of the game, you expect you get a big reward per month? i can totally udnerstand this for PvP-ers and their dailys. cause in the pvp maps you barely have nodes/mobs...but srsly, cmon and argument rationally..


View PostTGIFrisbie, on 05 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

This isn't the game you bought.  This is the game Anet has decided they want you to play, after they sold you the game you thought you were buying.

Man up, its a gear tread mill now.   They want to lure WoW players to this game which is LOL.  Gear grind players will always go with the best gear grind game on the market, WoW.  

We all got suckered.

totally..false..argument.

gear treadmill equals the introduction of several new tiers. arenanet implements one new tier to work for, you take out of this its a gear treadmill? pls...

elaborate on your arguments, pls. i would udnerstand this if a new type of gear comes out every month or so, but this is not true, and wont be true till an expansion releases, where a lot of people are fine with a new tier of gear.

next point is: exotics are so easy to get, that they dont even deserve their name anymore. people are with with ascended gear, cause it gives them something to work for, despite having skins. it keeps you playing. on top of that fractals are kinda fun xD

Edited by Lycrus, 08 December 2012 - 07:18 PM.


#27 Pyraeus

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 07:18 PM

View PostLycrus, on 08 December 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

this is kind of MEGA silly. if you dont like collecting..you dont get the daily. you dont like events? no daily...what about killing npcs? ups..no daily.

AND the daily is doable in WvW, there are plenty of different mobs, there are lots of events and notes to be farmed. all in WvW. Do you expect to get daily from just standing in one place? and why is going fractals impossible? If you dont like doing the dungeon part of the game, you expect you get a big reward per month? i can totally udnerstand this for PvP-ers and their dailys. cause in the pvp maps you barely have nodes/mobs...but srsly, cmon and argument rationally..
It isn't impossible for fractals, its that you may not  be the person who wants do them. Also, like earlier, it would be good if the monthly did change every month on what type of things are needed. WvW dailys would help because there is something to go for in a day's work.

#28 Lycrus

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 07:25 PM

View PostPyraeus, on 08 December 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

It isn't impossible for fractals, its that you may not  be the person who wants do them. Also, like earlier, it would be good if the monthly did change every month on what type of things are needed. WvW dailys would help because there is something to go for in a day's work.

i will say it again, the normal dailys are doable in WvW very, very easy. Why? causea friend did them there...

and if you expect a reawrd if you dont like a big part of the game..then i dont know why you even expect it. i am doing WvW-kills for monthly, too, while i dont enjoy it...

#29 SirGamesalot

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 07:59 PM

View PostAlex Dimitri, on 08 December 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

Well the math most people come up with is, per 3 items power up is 7-8% (and i was talkin` about when entire Ascended gear gets available) !!!
That means 9 more items, if power progression stays same (3 items 7-8%) then 4x7-8% makes total of 28-32% (not counting weapons, but they will add even more) !!!

Its not a overall 7-8% on 3 items, its a 7-8% increase from exotic to ascended. This means you will get a 8% overall stat boost when you have the entire set.

The main reason you need ascended gear is because of agony, which doesn't exist in wvw.

#30 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 09:51 PM

People need to research before rant.

All the gear will be available through WvW.

It's an 8% total for the entire set above exotics.

The entire set is not available yet. By the time it is, it will be a WvW reward as well.

People are just bent because they were naive enough to believe a game company wouldn't break a promise.




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