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The grind


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#31 FoxBat

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:09 PM

View PostSoki, on 06 December 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

I want truly difficult, dynamic boss encounters and challenges in dungeons.

Bottom line is Anet is not going to design substantial content that only a small handful of players can manage. They tried it back in Domain of Anguish and it didn't go over so well. Even Blizzard who you seem to have in mind with the era of server firsts, raids only a small portion of guilds could handle etc. is moving away from this in WoW, and yet they don't have any P2W type clause, too busy sucking up your subscription.

This means that content can't easily lead to the rarest items in the game. Everybody can't have rare items and yet everyone is entitled to content, so the rare items are disconnected from specific content. FotM shows a possible way around that with scaling difficulty and a few minor tricks added in at the higher levels, and from what we've been told this dungeon as well as ascended items will be expanded in the future. There is a substantial amount of grind for current ascendeds, but some of it has to be done in the hardest dungeon in the game, and you can't simply buy a full piece outright with gold.

View PostGilles VI, on 06 December 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Funny you show a pic of more expensive exotic items..
Why don't you post of the cheaper, crafted items exotic weaps?

Those would be crafted berserker pieces.

Edited by FoxBat, 06 December 2012 - 04:16 PM.


#32 Darkobra

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:13 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 06 December 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Funny you show a pic of more expensive exotic items..
Why don't you post of the cheaper, crafted items exotic weaps?

Emblazoned IS the crafted set for a 400 leatherworker. And ever since the Ascended made the price of tier 6 materials skyrocket, there isn't cheaper.

And if there is, all ears! Because I'm after berserker's for my thief!

#33 Fizzypop

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:15 PM

View PostShadowrose, on 06 December 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

You know, you don't have to get those items.

Leave them for the people that actually have time. Out of the total amount of items, maybe 5% are extremely expensive.

You've got 95% of easily acquirable items, but no. You want to have everything within your reach, right? Everyone with the same items! Fun! No real achievement in getting one of those at all!

That's pretty selfish.

Edit: While we're at it, let's put legendary weapons for sale in some NPC at 5g each.

It's like y'all just willfully ignore what's actually written. This is exactly why no one takes you seriously. This game has no achievement. It's all face roll grinding. You might want to turn your argument on yourself there.

Edited by Fizzypop, 06 December 2012 - 04:17 PM.


#34 Gileas898

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:17 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 06 December 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

LOL
I ran FoW hundreds of times as a perma, not even once did I get anything of value, I have absolutely 0 interest in going back to a system like that.

The token system/mystic forge system is waaay better for me thanks.

I feel you. ~500 UW runs and no Mini Dhuum for me :(

Still, I have to say that UW- / FoW- / DoASC actually involved player skill, something that running dungeons / FotM / grinding Plinxx (lol) for your legendary DOES NOT.

Which is my biggest problem with GW2 to be honest. I was stoked when I was first invited to an UW group because I had performed well in a previous run. While you could say that how rich you became from doing speed clears in the end came down to luck (with the exception of DoA), the efficiency between a bad and a good group was enough incentive to actually improve.

Another thing that comes to mind is how you always knew what you were farming for in GW1. For example the BDS, mini Dhuum, Obsidian Edge were all bound to their respective chest, whereas in GW2 you go into a dungeon not knowing at all what to expect in terms of loot, apart from the Lodestones etc. This is kind of like going into UW to farm Rubies and Sapphires. Sure, they drop there, but to do UW just to farm them would be madness. If players actually had an idea of what they could earn from a specific dungeon, it would provide a lot more incentive to run them. If, for example, the Foefire's Essence was only attainable from end-bosses in AC, I think we would see a lot more activity there.

#35 Corvindi

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:18 PM

I miss games with open world boss loot pinatas.  Even if the loot was most of the time crap it was nice to know that I might get some amazing rare shiny by killing the slobbery mob harassing me as I passed by.

I don't miss botters and farmers camping those mobs 24/7, running between them in a pattern or logging in just before spawn, though.

I couldn't care less about dungeon drops either way.  No decent dungeon finders means I'll never want to experience those.

#36 Johny Bravo

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:25 PM

I never understood people who complained about the "grind" in GW1 and still don't in GW2.  I have 2 level 80 characters they I have developed.  In that time I have pretty much played what I felt and never farmed in the sense of grinding the same area over and over again.  In doing this I always dropped my greens into the forge and about 50% of my rares.  Overtime I have received 3 unique exotics as well as 3-4 pearls or carrions.  I don't know what it is you expect.  If they put it on a boss you would farm the boss getting all sorts of RNG goodness until you got lucky.  I like the idea of being able to play wherever I want and then dump the items into the forge for some RNGs.  

The fact is that statistically I have everything I need to play the game with the build I want and was at that point pretty much right after I hit level 80.  Since the game isn't supposed to end at 80 Anet has to have something to play towards.  Achievements, cool skins, legendary weapons are all things that are for the most part cosmetic (although with the introduction of ascended gear there is another tier of gear)

In the end I, and I believe many others, purchased this game to play and enjoy over time.  I don't want to have everything dropped in my lap when I hit lvl 80.  If I did I would have bought a console game with a clear end.  I wanted a game where I could quickly have access to all areas and play at equal footing with everyone else.  This, IMHO, is what they delivered.  I do agree that the introduction of ascended gear adds a wrinkle but until I see how it all plays out I am not going to comment on the gear treadmill.

#37 Grumpdogg

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:41 PM

Every dungeon boss in this game is a long boring grind.

Grimes: It's all in the grind, Sizemore.

#38 Venereus

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

I don't get the whole grind thing. I just play casually and amass money with time. Enough time will get you enough gold for whatever you want. I think people's real problem is that they want things right now and can't wait for them. The game is not forcing you to buy gems for gold, only your impatience makes you think you need to do that. It's a game people, you're supposed to play it for fun, if you want a sense of achievement you're looking in the wrong place.

Edited by Venereus, 06 December 2012 - 04:58 PM.


#39 Valkaire

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:00 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 06 December 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Except every boss now drops 10s (15 with food), the bag which gives another 5s and 600karma and 3 tokens.
Not to mention the new drops from the chests, just this morning I got an exotic from a chest in AC, sold for 8g on TP.
8g for killing kholer in 5 minutes, pretty neat imo..



Funny you show a pic of more expensive exotic items..
Why don't you post of the cheaper, crafted items exotic weaps?

That's the crafted leather armor.... /facepalm

IMO I prefer this system. Yes, it requires some work but meh, I've had worse. At least we're not required to regrind everything every month just to gain access to content. No more am I locked out of content for not wanting to grind. No more am I required to zone in, kill one boss, zone out, hundreds of times to get that one green weapon that I really really wanted. No more do I have to repeatedly run that same dungeon over and over again for the offchance of getting a cool looking weapon that I really want, or materials for armor that I really want.

Btw, there are unique exotic items that drop for their respective bosses. It's just, you know, they're rare (backpiece and jeweling recipes from what I've seen, could be more).

Or there's the increased chance of getting exotics from trash mobs, precursors and named exotics from dungeon chests, etc. etc.

Edited by Valkaire, 06 December 2012 - 05:01 PM.


#40 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

For all the people that don`t understand WHY so many people are irritated by current system here`s a breakdown !

Presuming you want to make something of a rare Legendary or just cool skin "exotic" trough MF every single recipe involves 250 or something of that kind t6 mats some ask multiple stacks of mats !
Now if you think about logic behind this, you will find it`s perfectly fine (and this is TRUE), but when you see how much time you need yo actually farm those items you gonna get sick !!!

Example Lodestones (of any kind) are request for creation of Legendary weapons, for 900+ hrs now i seen in total 4-5 of them (different kind) drop for me. I tried even farming with result i got 1 (one) for 5 hrs of farming, do i need to mention i got terrible headache after that session !

Now do math, if you want to farm all 250 (gold free method) and you get 2 for every 3 hrs invested (let`s say full MF gear+food) you still will need about 375 hrs to farm them, i don`t need to to remind you that some items need multiple amounts of this extra rare mats !!!

And what`s alternative, of course buying them for gold their prices range from 1g to 2.5g on average, which means per stack you need from 250g to 500g :P !!!

And if anymore smartass people tell me you don`t have to make those, yes that`s TRUE but what am i supposed to do after having 7 characters maxed out and all in decent gear ???
Maybe i should just stop playing ? Is that a point everyone want`s to make or final goal of Anet ?

People just saying that GRIND is insane and only real alternative is buying (which involves even more grind if you don`t want to spend real cash) HOW IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND for some people is beyound me !!!!

#41 Runkleford

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:53 PM

Wow some people in this thread are so keen on licking ANET's boots (once again) that they completely miss the point of the OP. No one is saying that the status symbols should be EASY to get. The issue is that these status symbols require so much repetitiveness to acquire. I've been saying this all along! Legendaries don't scream "legendary" to me when it's really just an indication of how much a player has grind for gold and materials. There's no "epic" quests attached to them, no difficult challenge that the player has to complete, just straight farming.

Admittedly, repetition is probably unavoidable since if difficult challenges were to be implemented as the requirement for getting Legendaries since you'd have to repeat them if/when you failed them. But still it's a more satisfying and more engaging activity than mindless farm grinding. I'd rather beat a really hard gauntlet of monsters and then the boss in a personal story after failing 50 times (much more immersive and fun) and then getting my Legendary than farming materials and gold and simply chucking them into the Mystic Forge.

But luckily for me, I don't care about Legendaries since I don't care about status nor the looks of them. So this isn't sour gowns because I can't/don't want one, But as of now, status items are nothing more than a status symbol of grinders. Big whoop.


EDIT: And yeah inflation is making prices rise for everything where even the "outdated" exotics are getting too expensive for this casual player to consider decking out his 2nd level 80 in full exotics. I don't even have all the runes for my main character for the build I want since the runes I want are now 1g 20 silver each. Completely ridiculous for just runes to play the build that I want to play. It's getting less and less casual friendly and if this is how MMOs should be then it just reminds me of why I don't play them anymore.

Edited by Runkleford, 06 December 2012 - 06:01 PM.


#42 Darkobra

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:52 PM

View PostRunkleford, on 06 December 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

I don't even have all the runes for my main character for the build I want since the runes I want are now 1g 20 silver each. Completely ridiculous for just runes to play the build that I want to play. It's getting less and less casual friendly and if this is how MMOs should be then it just reminds me of why I don't play them anymore.

That right there was so funny I'm tempted to just mail you the 7 gold 20 silver.

#43 Runkleford

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:56 PM

View PostDarkobra, on 06 December 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

That right there was so funny I'm tempted to just mail you the 7 gold 20 silver.

Well if my crappy farming skills make you happy, by all means, make me happy too!

#44 ObscureThreat

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:00 PM

View PostAlex Dimitri, on 06 December 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:


And if anymore smartass people tell me you don`t have to make those, yes that`s TRUE but what am i supposed to do after having 7 characters maxed out and all in decent gear ???
Maybe i should just stop playing ? Is that a point everyone want`s to make or final goal of Anet ?

People just saying that GRIND is insane and only real alternative is buying (which involves even more grind if you don`t want to spend real cash) HOW IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND for some people is beyound me !!!!

This right here is what a lot of people are missing. We want those skins because or else there is nothing else to do. The entire game is or was based on horizontal progression. Therefore no one needs anything other than crafted exotic armour and weapons. But the fact is their has to be a goal for when a person hits lvl 80. If there isn't then why bother playing? The skins are one of the objectives people are given, but in order to obtain those skins, you have to do a boring repetitive grind. I'm fine with working for 2-3 months to get an awesome looking weapon, but I want those 2-3 months to be fun. ATM they are not. Everyone runs dungeons in full farm mode, where half the content is skipped. Now I'm not whether or not I would attribute this to bad dungeon design (though most of the content is a little to easy, and mostly just high health bosses) or player mentality, but there is the problem.

It gets frustrating to see the majority of players on just to farm DE's (which has mostly died in CS) or just to do a speed run. It's just that everything is obtainable if you have enough gold. There's no skill cap involved in getting the more unique skins or anything, so people just farm. While the same was true of GW1 to an extent, the farming dungeon runs still required skill and something more than an time investment, in the form of consets. The penalty for wiping was much more harsh, and that forced players to pay attention, and consequently, overcoming a difficult boss fight felt more intense also.

I think at the core is, I'm not finding GW2 fun anymore, and for all the people complaining about grind, maybe its time just to give it a rest for a while. I feel that if you are complaining about grind and stuff maybe the game is just not for you. I've played around 200 hours and I feel I've got my moneys worth. In addition, when people complain about grind, they are in most cases, complaining about a core element of GW2 and most MMO's.

#45 Chabby

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:04 PM

View PostObscureThreat, on 06 December 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

This right here is what a lot of people are missing. We want those skins because or else there is nothing else to do. The entire game is or was based on horizontal progression. Therefore no one needs anything other than crafted exotic armour and weapons. But the fact is their has to be a goal for when a person hits lvl 80. If there isn't then why bother playing? The skins are one of the objectives people are given, but in order to obtain those skins, you have to do a boring repetitive grind. I'm fine with working for 2-3 months to get an awesome looking weapon, but I want those 2-3 months to be fun. ATM they are not. Everyone runs dungeons in full farm mode, where half the content is skipped. Now I'm not whether or not I would attribute this to bad dungeon design (though most of the content is a little to easy, and mostly just high health bosses) or player mentality, but there is the problem.

It gets frustrating to see the majority of players on just to farm DE's (which has mostly died in CS) or just to do a speed run. It's just that everything is obtainable if you have enough gold. There's no skill cap involved in getting the more unique skins or anything, so people just farm. While the same was true of GW1 to an extent, the farming dungeon runs still required skill and something more than an time investment, in the form of consets. The penalty for wiping was much more harsh, and that forced players to pay attention, and consequently, overcoming a difficult boss fight felt more intense also.

I think at the core is, I'm not finding GW2 fun anymore, and for all the people complaining about grind, maybe its time just to give it a rest for a while. I feel that if you are complaining about grind and stuff maybe the game is just not for you. I've played around 200 hours and I feel I've got my moneys worth. In addition, when people complain about grind, they are in most cases, complaining about a core element of GW2 and most MMO's.

This is a very good post. It explains very well the issues.

Even in full magic find set, I was still getting crap. Want 30 gold? Do speed run of dungeons, skip most of the things, farm Arah path 3 boss 1 nonstop for 10 evening. It's boring, it's so slow and repetitive.
Fractals were a step in the right direction but: level restriction + disconnecting issues make the whole thing less fun.

If I want a legendary, it's cool for it to be a long term achievement, but since everything is based on luck/random, I would need eventually to repeat the same task over and over again to raise my chance to get the necessary things.

Edited by Chabby, 06 December 2012 - 07:11 PM.


#46 BrettM

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:05 PM

And yet, even at those horrendous prices, 4g+ crafted exotics are only giving the crafter a profit of a few silver for each piece. A lot of crafted items can only be sold at a loss. The thin margin on crafted goods puts the crafter in a strange position a lot of times. For example, right now it is cheaper to buy Hardened Boot Soles on the TP than it is to craft them. So, if you want to craft a set of Berserker's Emblazoned Boots, you are better off to sell four Hardened Leather Sections and buy two boot soles. What kind of economy actually destroys the value of raw materials by turning them into finished product?

#47 Keepy

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

I have more than 1k fractal dungeon tokens, yesterday for the first time i got an exotic weapon and is account bound. After that i got like 3 condensed something (the nub one) and like 1 rare per round of 3.... seriously dude the rewards sucks and is kinda hard those fractals sometimes.

If you are opening a huge TREASURE chest, but you get the same as a small chest. Or Treasure chest with no treasure in it would you be disappointed? We are on Indiana Jones mode we run with the rock of Indiana Jones they even have fire but theres no gold idol at the end. Or emerald like Romancing the Stone...

Posted Image


Our rock is on fire!

Posted Image


Search google for treasure chest and the click the tab image and youll see what is a treasure chest. Is full of GOLD gems and treasure!

Edited by Keepy, 06 December 2012 - 07:19 PM.


#48 Daesu

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:18 PM

I totally agree with OP about the grind.  GW2 is even more grindy than GW1 because, in GW2, you even need to grind for max stat gear.  By max stat gear, I mean the gear that you need to fit your build, not just the cheapest possible exotic that you can get from the TP.  This means full berserker exotic for my ranger, unfortunately.

As for the cash shop, you would always get such issues if you allow real money to be converted into gold.  On the other hand, there are still valuable things in this game that you can't get with gold.  I can think of two, ascended items and dungeon (e.g. power/vit/tough) gear.  You have to grind for those. :(  Generally in GW2, the reward sucks for the amount of effort that you need to put into it.

Edited by Daesu, 06 December 2012 - 07:25 PM.


#49 MazingerZ

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:37 PM

View PostBrettM, on 06 December 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

And yet, even at those horrendous prices, 4g+ crafted exotics are only giving the crafter a profit of a few silver for each piece. A lot of crafted items can only be sold at a loss. The thin margin on crafted goods puts the crafter in a strange position a lot of times. For example, right now it is cheaper to buy Hardened Boot Soles on the TP than it is to craft them. So, if you want to craft a set of Berserker's Emblazoned Boots, you are better off to sell four Hardened Leather Sections and buy two boot soles. What kind of economy actually destroys the value of raw materials by turning them into finished product?

Because of the intrinsic value of the raw material beyond the finished product, re: grinding crafting levels
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#50 TenderFoot

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:56 PM

Anet should do like they did in GW1 certain mobs drop rare weapon like Icy Dragon sword, totem axe etc. Drop rates should be higher on things with how many items you need on certain things , It's going to take me forever to farm 1,000 Karka shells with low drop rate to get the item from the trader.

#51 Chabby

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:25 PM

I think one of the dev confirmed a while ago that there is indeed a certain weapon dropped from a specific boss. Can't say which one though.

#52 DarkGanni

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:32 PM

Personally I think the Mystic Forge was their biggest mistake: it's boring, enforces grind, it's a scheme for anet to make money and represents no real challenge in getting cool skins.

So I just spent a week and a half farming CRABS for powerful blood, then after breaking my neck getting 250 I had to buy 50 ectos (cause salvaging with the gold kit isn't worth it) and after I was happy and all done with that, the game asks for ANOTHER 250 ectos. HOW IS THAT NOT GRIND TO ARENANET?

Ok So, I loved (yes loveD in the past) fractals, they offered a small variety but even that is getting boring. As many already know getting an exotic that is ACCOUNT BOUND and that possibly YOU CAN'T USE due to your profession is frustrating enough, since you can't sell it either you can only mystic forge or salvage, I salvaged it and got AN ELDER WOOD but no ectos.

Next is the fact that ascended rings are only luck based, no skill required. At lvl10+ you get a chance at ascended, So After I hit 20+ I'd think "hey now I can get +5 infused items" wrong, seen non infused rings for other drop as well so that broke all the fun in doing fractals.

Also agony is grind based, those who do fractals with +10 or +15 agony know that their hp drops fast either way and you need +20 defense to do some bosses properly. So what players have to do, grind for backpack +250 ectos for infused version or try lvl20 daily which may or may not give an infused ring. Personally my first lvl20 got a fractal trident that I can't use on my ranger, salvaging it only got me a piece of wood. Now doing fractals with pugs can be horrible, especially at the grawl or cliffside levels.

My Final point: Every game has grind even GW1 had and GW2 has A LOT MORE. Anet said they leave the grind for others? I personally think they have put as much grind in GW2 that it's almost comparable to other mmos. In GW1 I farmed the bone dragon staff (BDS) to death and never got one but I was always inclined to do the dungeon because there was something worth doing it for. Also I did fowsc for an obby or voltaic spear etc because there was always something to get.

In GW2 doing a dungeon is interesting till you get the equip you want and finish all paths for achievements and most people lose interest after that because there's nothing rare to keep hunting.

Mystic forge is made in a way where the best skins are almost unreachable for casual players, can they imagine themselves saving 250 ectos, 250 lodestone type 1, 250 lodestone type 2?  It's so long and boring that it reminds me of perfect world: go in elite dungeon get mat 1, get mat 2 once you're done craft your wep (YES I am actually comparing GW2 to a chinese grinding game).


This game was supposed to be fun, enduring (as many might have expected), grindless (or at least minimum grind) but Instead we got a grindfest featureless game with simple bugs that still haven't been repaired after almost 4 months of launch.

#53 Var

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

View PostChabby, on 06 December 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

I think one of the dev confirmed a while ago that there is indeed a certain weapon dropped from a specific boss. Can't say which one though.

As of the last big patch, all of the end dungeon bosses have unique loot to them in a vein similar to the green's of GW1... so I am a bit perplexed by the call for the system that has already been implemented (now I don't know if sub-bosses have unique skins to them). Some of those items are accessories that cannot be seen but, still, the system exists.

As for the Forge, I don't see the problem with it in and of itself; its a sink of materials much like a gold sink. And the recipes in it are no different from recipes in a crafting profession (aside from the random ones, but the unique skins are all fixed recipes).

As for Fractals, people really need to stop bringing up "needing" infused gear unless you are above and beyond the point at which Fractals stops giving you stuff. You don't need it. The RNG on the rings is crap, we all agree, but the 250 ecto grind is most certainly not forced on you if all you care about is everything unique offered in the dungeon. And if you're hitting an agony wall sub-20...

Edited by Var, 06 December 2012 - 08:44 PM.


#54 Impmon

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:39 PM

View PostSoki, on 06 December 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

TO CONDENSE MY SENTIMENTS:
Good players are not rewarded for overcoming challenges – the majority of the game’s status symbols and cool items are gained from performing an easy task for an inordinate amount of time. This sums up my opinion, and why I think GW2 is not as good a game as it could be – but I implore you to read the rest of the post if you’re going to add to the discussion.



I believe that Guild Wars 2 was designed with the philosophy of urging players to spend money to buy Gems to convert to Gold – first and foremost; with every system in the game pushing players to spend money on the Gem store for gold.
Every single item that is even remotely neat or hard to get in this game is received from the Mystic Forge.
Not only does tossing a huge amount of trade materials into the forge remove flavor from the items you’re getting; but it empowers players who have a lot of RL capital to spend far more than it should.

The exotics for a fresh 80 are cheap enough – 12g maximum to deck yourself out, inclusive of exotic jewelry. This ignores runes and sigils.
After this, players go for cosmetic gear to transmute their stat-gear into. Here is where the tacky design starts up.
When you transmute gear’s appearence, you lose the actual item you’re transmuting. The two items fuse into one. That means that if you ever want to use that item’s skin again, you need to reacquire it.
After getting the item skins and transmuting your exotics to what you want, what do we, as players, have to strive for? Vanity items, like Mystic Weapons and other neat-looking gear from the Mystic Forge.

Mystic Weapons are Okay. They have a feasible grind attached to them. To make a Mystic weapon, it usually costs between 7 to 12 gold , which is entirely feasible. I wish it were more than a simple grind for gold, but hey, it's from the Mystic Forge. No big deal. ...Or it wouldn't be, if there were unique items to get that were ~not~ tied to the Mystic Forge (and thus, gold).

Check these recipes out:
http://wiki.guildwar...rge/Other_Items
Most of these unique equipments take an excessive, unfeasible amount of goldto get. No flavor. No quest. No challenge. No adventure. No journey. No ~fun~. Just grind. Plain, boring gold grind.
These equips don’t even have a unique sigil or rune.

With the way the market works, it’s nearly impossible for the average player to amass money at a decent rate without grinding, unless they convert bought gems to gold. Killing a champion in the world does not give you appropriate reward for the effort involved. Aside from this fact, Champions are generally pretty bland – just normal mobs with more health and damage. ~That’s it~.


As you can tell, I am very disappointed with how GW2 turned out – and have seen these sentiments mirrored by many other players. The game’s combat is fluid, and the gameplay is solid – but gameplay should be supported by strong systems that reward good players – and GW2’s economic and legendary/vanity item systems simply do not deliver on that. They reward spending real money on the gemstore and converting to gold; or grinding easy content until you drop.


As far as discussion goes, I’m interested to see what the broad community of GW2Guru forums think about the state of the game; and what they feel about my opinions on the underlying item-acquisition systems of GW2; independent of the gameplay.

To precis;

Anet basically forces you to spend money on their cash shop.  There might not be a subscription but you end up paying more in the long run.  Nerfing world drops wasn't done to combat bots but to force people to use their cash shop.

#55 The_Tree_Branch

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

View PostThe_Blades, on 06 December 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Tossing stuff into the forge to get a weapon is nothing but a grindy system, grind your ass at the materials and thats it.

I obviously agree with the op.

Until they put in the game the same reward system gw1 had, for dungeons for instance, where you had a small chance of getting good loot from the end chest, the game will always feel like its lacking something on the pve side of things.

Green weapons are meaningless, why the hell did they even bothered to add white blue and green variety? its all crap.

And yeah, making the game revolve around the cash shop its a cheesy move.

Yes i want a chance at a good drop if i get to kill a boss.

Remind me, which dungeon let you get Crystalline swords and other items of similar rare skin quality with tokens?

...

#56 Lordkrall

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:25 PM

View PostImpmon, on 06 December 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

To precis;

Anet basically forces you to spend money on their cash shop.  There might not be a subscription but you end up paying more in the long run.  Nerfing world drops wasn't done to combat bots but to force people to use their cash shop.

ahahahahahahahhahahahahaha,
Yeaaaaaah.

That is the reason for why most of the cool stuff can't, in anyway, be gained from the store, right?

#57 Darkobra

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:59 PM

View PostRunkleford, on 06 December 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

Well if my crappy farming skills make you happy, by all means, make me happy too!

Ok. Go do a dungeon or two. There's a karma merchant at Sunshore that gives you orichalcum picks for 350 karma. Get mining there. Done in a few hours. If you're really good, you'll get it done fast.

Simply by playing the game you can make money. It astounds me how people can't even afford a 1 gold rune. How casual do they have to make an already casual game?

I miss the days when games were made by gamers for gamers and not trying to cater to the Peggle People and MILKING THEIR MONEY! "Yup! Too hard! Can't do this dungeon! I can't seem to get out these red circles! LOWER THE PRICE OF RUNES!"

Teach a boy to fish and all that.

#58 Shadowrose

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:28 AM

View PostFizzypop, on 06 December 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

This is exactly why no one takes you seriously.
How I love when people pull out the "everyone" card.

Lacking self confidence, are we? Learn to have an opinion of your own.

#59 Runkleford

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:40 AM

View PostDarkobra, on 06 December 2012 - 10:59 PM, said:

Ok. Go do a dungeon or two. There's a karma merchant at Sunshore that gives you orichalcum picks for 350 karma. Get mining there. Done in a few hours. If you're really good, you'll get it done fast.

Simply by playing the game you can make money. It astounds me how people can't even afford a 1 gold rune. How casual do they have to make an already casual game?

I miss the days when games were made by gamers for gamers and not trying to cater to the Peggle People and MILKING THEIR MONEY! "Yup! Too hard! Can't do this dungeon! I can't seem to get out these red circles! LOWER THE PRICE OF RUNES!"

Teach a boy to fish and all that.

Haha. You miss the games were made by gamers for gamers eh? So do I. Back then, games were fun and about the challenge and not about how much grind you could put in. You really think mindless repetition makes you "hardcore"? Hahahaha. I was gaming when games came on cassette tapes so please stow the "gamers for gamers" lecture because I played some pretty damn challenging games when gaming was still a niche hobby. You really think "hard" equates to grinding for gold? Hahahaha.

But I do apologize, because my previous post was misleading. I wasn't saying that I couldn't afford the runes but rather that the price for the rune for the build I want to play are too ridiculous to pay for just for runes for armor that will just get replaced by Ascendent gear. And I love how you make it sound like it's ONLY 1g. Did you forget the cost of the other equipment?  

But hey, carry on with the nerdy outrage at how others can't make as much gold as you. I can totally live with that "shame" of not swimming in gold, all things considered.

Edited by Runkleford, 07 December 2012 - 12:55 AM.


#60 Baldur The Bold

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:09 AM

I am currently getting heavy arah armor. I have done most of the runs and I am just missing the chest piece. After I get that I am not sure what I will do. I WILL NOT GRIND for a Legendary. I GW1 what was fun was doing fow/uw/doa etc not only for the chance of that rare item at the end but because the run was fun. You also made some good money out of it no matter what you got at the end(ecto,shards,gems).

I can't really see incentive of doing anything else in this game until there is a realistic goal to aim for. I know all the fanboys will start saying "do some jumping puzzles" or "there are tons of things you can do!". The point is that I don't want to do any of them. I hate the forge. I hate crafting. I always have. Crafting=grinding no matter which way you spin it. If I wanted a cool item then I would rather do a series of runs through a dungeon than grind out 250 of xx and 250 of yy.

I am doing AC just for the gift because I am bored. Even though I will never be able to afford a precursor or legendary materials for that matter.




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