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#1 Desolin

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:35 PM

I'm not sure why I'm finding myself being dragged into a debate about comparing guild wars 2 to other mmo's. I just wanted to play the game, you know? but the other day I just had to stop and read the map discussion, concerning what made wow better than gw2. Basically, I was told that I was stupid for playing gw2 over another game.

I just find it funny when people go from one mmo to another and then harp at people telling them why they shouldn't this game or that. Who cares if I'd have more fun playing a game other than gw2? There's a known saying in life to be content with what you got.

Anyone else having similar problems in map discussions in cities like Lion's Arch and feeling the same way?

#2 ssringo

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:08 PM

Wait, you're saying people playing GW2 called you stupid for playing GW2? They had to be trolling or being a douche for the sake of being a douche. That's just too much hypocrisy for the person to be serious.

I actually don't pay attention to map chat for the most part since my guild chat fills up my chat box :P Then again I also don't hang out in LA except for crafting or maybe picking up stuff from the TP. Just report people if needed and ignore them.

#3 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:19 PM

There is not debate at all. With geargrind, gw2 is just an other clone. Just, way more trashy, with an incompetent support and dev team releasing trash, way less improved functions.

#4 Gremlin

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:26 PM

I really don't know if WOW is better than GW2 or any other game, I do know that those who have played WOW for years and years have a vested interest in keeping the game alive.

So I am guessing anyone with a long standing commitment to that game wants players to leave GW2 and join WOW.

Are the WOW forums full of people saying Its rubbish come join GW2, just curious as to why players take up their precious time encouraging players to give up on GW2.

Don't like it think its an pile of S then leave go forth and join another forum.

Maybe there are actually MMORPG evangelists who go out to convert others to their own game

#5 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:36 PM

inb4 thread locked

if you want my opinion, GW2 has a LONG WAY to go to even step up near WoW's level. It's PvE fails, it's WvWvW was done half-assed, levelling and skill system is extremely stale. There's too many things "wrong" with the game.

Edited by I'm Squirrel, 06 December 2012 - 06:37 PM.


#6 Robsy128

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:39 PM

View PostLucas Ashrock, on 06 December 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

I used to play WoW and I'm only on these forums to annoy people.

N'awww... it's okay. We're a nice community. We'll heal you ;)

Anyway, yeah, there's not much to say on this aside from starting a massive war.

#7 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:39 PM

Lol, clone vs clone thread?

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 06 December 2012 - 06:40 PM.


#8 blindude

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:41 PM

I cant get how people could get used to wows gameplay after playing gw2.You might not like pve direction or wvw or spvp or whatever you want but i find it really hard to argue that basic gameplay and combat mechanics in wow are better..And wahts that wow's level that is so unmatched ..LOL

#9 Jobuu

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:52 PM

Well, problems aside, I'm still playing GW2. When I hit 50 in SWTOR I quit almost immediately. Hit 80 and still playing so... and I stopped playing WOW a year and a half ago.

Since there's no monthly fee, you can still login and play/give it time/see what happens; which I will keep doing. Grindy or not, the combat is fun to me.

Edited by Jobuu, 06 December 2012 - 06:53 PM.


#10 Gremlin

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

View PostI, on 06 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

inb4 thread locked

if you want my opinion, GW2 has a LONG WAY to go to even step up near WoW's level. It's PvE fails, it's WvWvW was done half-assed, levelling and skill system is extremely stale. There's too many things "wrong" with the game.

Unfair to compare them GW2 £33-95 for unlimited play, this year next year as long as you want to keep playing.
WOW £9 a month So thats £108 a year this year next year as long as you want to keep playing.

You wouldn't comepare a £10 watch against a £100 watch would you.

Is WOW better, maybe it is but is it worth what you have to pay for it and what you have to give up to keep playing it.

#11 MazingerZ

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:41 PM

View PostGremlin, on 06 December 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

You wouldn't comepare a £10 watch against a £100 watch would you.

Sure, you would.  If you were justifying why the cost of a 100 dollar watch vs 10 dollar watch.

You're trying to make a decision, price factors into the decision.

I pay more for a particular piece of hardware because I want it to work, I want it to be reliable and I have faith in the people providing the product.

If I didn't give two craps beyond an immediate need, I would probably buy the crappier, cheaper product.

Edited by MazingerZ, 06 December 2012 - 08:41 PM.

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#12 Kymeric

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:43 PM

People like to take sides.

Look at professional sports. People often arbitrarily side with a given team and then get so worked up you'd think it was their religion.

I haven't really seen anyone acting like you describe in map chat, but the official forums and Guru provide plenty of it.

On the positive side, eventually the pure trolls do get bored and go away.  On the negative side, there's always one to replace one who leaves.  We've had a revolving handful on Guru long before the game even launched.  Usually the pattern involves long diatribes when they first find the place.  Then their posts get shorter and shorter until they are just making one or two line, "GW2 is trash.  ANet is incompetent.  I want to vomit" posts in every thread they can find.  After that, they eventually find something else to go hate.

I expect the people in map chat will disappear even faster.  There's only so long someone is going to bother sitting around in a game they hate, complaining about it.

View PostLucas Ashrock, on 06 December 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

There is not debate at all. With geargrind, gw2 is just an other clone. Just, way more trashy, with an incompetent support and dev team releasing trash, way less improved functions.

You can repeat it as long as you want, but a quick look around both Guru and the official forums, and it's obvious there is debate.

It's clear there's no doubt in your mind.  But making the leap from "no doubt in my mind" to "there's no debate" is near pathological.

Edited by Kymeric, 06 December 2012 - 09:44 PM.


#13 jirayasan

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:48 PM

I just got back into SWTOR 2 weeks ago and this morning i logged into GW2 while swtor was under maintenance. Guild Wars 2 is much more fun BUT SWTOR has a deeper and better story and storytelling. SWTOR story is mainly good because i've been a fan of the star Wars movie since i was a little kid. If there was movies of Guild Wars when i was a kid and they were good i would probably enjoy GW2 story as much but the storytelling in GW2 is still bad, sWTOR is in real time while in GW2 two characters stand face to face with some art in the background that rarely moves or add a feeling to the conversation.

#14 blindude

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:55 PM

View Postjirayasan, on 06 December 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

I just got back into SWTOR 2 weeks ago and this morning i logged into GW2 while swtor was under maintenance. Guild Wars 2 is much more fun BUT SWTOR has a deeper and better story and storytelling. SWTOR story is mainly good because i've been a fan of the star Wars movie since i was a little kid. If there was movies of Guild Wars when i was a kid and they were good i would probably enjoy GW2 story as much but the storytelling in GW2 is still bad, sWTOR is in real time while in GW2 two characters stand face to face with some art in the background that rarely moves or add a feeling to the conversation.
True but we all know story is not what people are looking to find in an mmo..at least its not at the top of their proirity list.
Also did you buy a subscription cause i checked it out now that is "f2p" and i just cant believe that there are many people that would play it without subbing.F2p my ass....

#15 Majic

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:00 PM

What? WoW trolls on LA map chat?

NO WAI!!1!!1!!! :P




Solution: Switch your chat window to the combat tab. It's much more interesting and far more informative. :lol:

#16 Shinimas

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:00 PM

View PostGremlin, on 06 December 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Unfair to compare them GW2 £33-95 for unlimited play, this year next year as long as you want to keep playing.
WOW £9 a month So thats £108 a year this year next year as long as you want to keep playing.

You wouldn't comepare a £10 watch against a £100 watch would you.

Is WOW better, maybe it is but is it worth what you have to pay for it and what you have to give up to keep playing it.

F2P games make more than P2P games.

Regardless, if one game is worse people just leave it. The competition is rough.

Oh and X-pacs in GW are not free.

Edited by Shinimas, 06 December 2012 - 10:01 PM.


#17 MisterB

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

View PostDesolin, on 06 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Anyone else having similar problems in map discussions in cities like Lion's Arch and feeling the same way?

I corrected ANet's error and renamed the "map" tab to "spam." I very rarely read anything that is displayed there.

#18 Dasryn

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:08 PM

View PostDesolin, on 06 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

I just had to stop and read the map discussion

this is your first mistake.

everything ever said about anything that is better in the mmorpg community, is subject to opinion.

id say, formulate your own opinion, and dont worry about anyone else's.

but if you cant do that, then do this:

stop comparing GW2 to other mmos.  GW2, like The Secret World and EvE, is a completely different beast.  if you wanna go man-o-a-man-o with WoW, do it with Rift.  Rift and WoW are neck and neck completely the same.

GW2 is doing its own thing.  like GW1 did its own thing.  the population will dwindle because a game like GW2 is before its time.  buts its ok, WoW is the Everquest of my generation and there are going to be people completely stuck on that game til the end of time.

people who defend wow dont actually like wow.  they are just heavily invested.  5000 achievement score, 99 mounts, all epic gear, thousands of hours spent playing.  for a wow player to play another game, is unthinkable because it essentially means all of that, was for nothing, because your accomplishments in WoW dont matter in the new game.  its truly horrifying for them i imagine.

so do like ANet does, and just do your own thing.

Edited by Rickter, 06 December 2012 - 10:08 PM.


#19 Juanele

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:08 PM

There can only be one

pretty much what all of these discussions amount to

Although I've hardly read anything of the sort in my map channels, maybe just your particular server

#20 jirayasan

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:08 PM

View Postblindude, on 06 December 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

True but we all know story is not what people are looking to find in an mmo..at least its not at the top of their proirity list.
Also did you buy a subscription cause i checked it out now that is "f2p" and i just cant believe that there are many people that would play it without subbing.F2p my ass....

Yeah i resubbed and got about 1000 Cartel Coins. not wroth it without a subscription :)

#21 Desild

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:09 PM

Other MMOs? Ha! As if. GW2 will be my last MMO. To me, it's like the genre doesn't exist. So either it steps up its game, or this will a poor "last experience" for me.

MMOs are just not worth it. Neither the investment, nor the emotional attachment we develop with. It's just painful.

#22 Gremlin

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:38 PM

View PostMazingerZ, on 06 December 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

Sure, you would.  If you were justifying why the cost of a 100 dollar watch vs 10 dollar watch.

You're trying to make a decision, price factors into the decision.

I pay more for a particular piece of hardware because I want it to work, I want it to be reliable and I have faith in the people providing the product.

If I didn't give two craps beyond an immediate need, I would probably buy the crappier, cheaper product.

Fair point but you do tend to compare like for like.

I would dearly like to have been on the wow forums for the last 8 years to tot up all the whines and complaints about Bugs for that game.
As it is some here consider WOW perfect and Anet and GW2 a big fat failure, I think them wrong on both counts.

Anet are not a perfect company and they have messed up in some areas but GW2 is still imo an awsome game.

#23 MazingerZ

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:57 PM

View PostGremlin, on 06 December 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

Fair point but you do tend to compare like for like.

I would dearly like to have been on the wow forums for the last 8 years to tot up all the whines and complaints about Bugs for that game.
As it is some here consider WOW perfect and Anet and GW2 a big fat failure, I think them wrong on both counts.

Anet are not a perfect company and they have messed up in some areas but GW2 is still imo an awsome game.

Software development is an evolution.  The idea is that the same mistakes become harder to make.  The flaws are smaller.  You get more robust tools, libraries and processes that keep that from happening.  Only when something new and innovative is done is there more room for error.

People are very forgiving.  Such as the Trading Post.  Yes, some people complained, but the community in general were forgiven because a game-wide auction house had never been done before.

The issue comes when there are fundamental issues with the game that drive down into the core.  Like map exploration being blocked because of bugged Skill Point Challenges.  That's a critical block in QA.  You have impeded the ability for people to achieve one of the goals of the game with this bug and the only workaround requires a server restart.

Other events are things like bugged Orr events for opening Arah.  Those also require a server restart to unclog.

It's scale and severity.

An application that needs to be kicked every few hours because of a memory leak is different from an app that locks up your computer every five minutes.

Edited by MazingerZ, 06 December 2012 - 11:58 PM.

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#24 Gileas898

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:18 AM

View PostGremlin, on 06 December 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

Fair point but you do tend to compare like for like.

I would dearly like to have been on the wow forums for the last 8 years to tot up all the whines and complaints about Bugs for that game.
As it is some here consider WOW perfect and Anet and GW2 a big fat failure, I think them wrong on both counts.

Anet are not a perfect company and they have messed up in some areas but GW2 is still imo an awsome game.

The bugs for that game? If the bugs were the only problem with GW2 god damn I'd still be playing til' my fingers bled. The stale combat, the P2W cash shop, the boring dungeon design, the anonymous and zergy WvWvW, are the things that does it for me.


View PostRickter, on 06 December 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

this is your first mistake.

everything ever said about anything that is better in the mmorpg community, is subject to opinion.

id say, formulate your own opinion, and dont worry about anyone else's.

but if you cant do that, then do this:

stop comparing GW2 to other mmos.  GW2, like The Secret World and EvE, is a completely different beast.  if you wanna go man-o-a-man-o with WoW, do it with Rift.  Rift and WoW are neck and neck completely the same.

GW2 is doing its own thing.  like GW1 did its own thing.  the population will dwindle because a game like GW2 is before its time.  buts its ok, WoW is the Everquest of my generation and there are going to be people completely stuck on that game til the end of time.

people who defend wow dont actually like wow.  they are just heavily invested.  5000 achievement score, 99 mounts, all epic gear, thousands of hours spent playing.  for a wow player to play another game, is unthinkable because it essentially means all of that, was for nothing, because your accomplishments in WoW dont matter in the new game.  its truly horrifying for them i imagine.

so do like ANet does, and just do your own thing.

So basically people can't think WoW is a good game? Jesus christ you are ignorant. Now I don't play WoW, but I have spent time playing it, and yes, it is a great game. You can say what you want but the amazing rate at which WoW retains and attracts new players even after so many years speak volumes about the quality of the game.

#25 Millimidget

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:19 AM

View PostDesild, on 06 December 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

Other MMOs? Ha! As if. GW2 will be my last MMO. To me, it's like the genre doesn't exist. So either it steps up its game, or this will a poor "last experience" for me.

MMOs are just not worth it. Neither the investment, nor the emotional attachment we develop with. It's just painful.
Yeah, the genre is basically in the gutter right now.

#26 Juanele

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:39 AM

View PostMillimidget, on 07 December 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

Yeah, the genre is basically in the gutter right now.

Or you and others are just tired of mmorpgs.

#27 Gremlin

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:45 AM

GW2 has flaws bugs and some stupid ideas, even so its very good.

The PVE is not stale at least imo its a huge adventure that I have yet to finish, the character storyline again is fine.

WVW apparently has loads of problems wouldn't know because when I heard about them I put wvw on the back burner till I heard otherwise.
Dungeons, well of course these will always be a bugbear to me as the one thing I hate about any game is waiting.

Take all the dungeons in the game and make them like the rest of pve let players enter singly or as a mob and join up in a casual manner just like the rest of the game.
There is no way I will stand around for 20 minutes trying to get on a party., Big fail in any game imo.
Bugged quests yes these are annoying but I just go and do something else on another map, pretty sure it will all be working soon.
Bugged questline that prevent a player continuing the storyline, Big problem which should have been fixed by now.

Grind fests for ever higher lvls of gear and the other rubbish talked about on the forums, to this I add the complaints about the gem store.
There is NO grind in GW2.
If someone insists that to complete the game I must have at least one legendary weapon and a full set of exotic armour then that would be grind.
Given that I can complete the pve part of the game enter wvw and all other parts of the game with the exception of the higher lvls of the Fractals dungeon using basic gear that has dropped from kills I fail to see this Grind.

Its only grind if your forced to do it, failing to look cool in front of other players because you don't have the gear is not being forced.
The gem store is not compulsory you do not have to buy anything to be successful in the game.
You are not forced to use real money either as you can exchange gold for gems and gems for items in the gem store.

You are free to ignore pay cash for or grind for items in the store, but no one forces you.
Its part of the game that's there for those who want it, a game has to try to appease many players with differing needs.

The only thing approaching forced grind in the game is ascended gear to reduce agony and apparently you can get by without it up to a point.

#28 Millimidget

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:46 AM

View PostJuanele, on 07 December 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Or you and others are just tired of mmorpgs.
I don't really care for blatant vertical progression, no.

Seeing as that's all the genre is willing to crap out at this time, perhaps you're correct.

But it really goes much beyond that. Questing has largely been reduced to following a tracker on the map/mini-map, dungeons are almost always corridor-design, pulls have become simpler, etc.

Just look at the legendary weapons; could have been a great place to join gear attainment with the achievement system, and instead was used to fuel the cash shop.

Edited by Millimidget, 07 December 2012 - 01:03 AM.


#29 Runkleford

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:53 AM

My opinion of GW2 and other MMOs can be summed up in this quote: "In with the new boss same as the old boss"  The MMO genre will stay horribly stagnant as long as people aren't willing to let go of tired old MMO themes and mechanics.

#30 Juanele

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:54 AM

View PostMillimidget, on 07 December 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

I don't really care for blatant vertical progression, no.

Seeing as that's all the genre is willing to crap out at this time, perhaps you're correct.

I'm with you there. I still enjoy the gameplay of GW2, it's why I play it. But I don't like their new direction. Otherwise I don't play mmorpgs anymore. I've been mostly playing stuff like Firefall or dabble in planetside 2 and things like that.




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