126 replies to this topic

[Runkleford]

I agree that GW2  is one of the better MMOs out there if not the best (in my opinion). However, it's still fallen into the typical MMO failings and typical MMO thinking that progression means better stats and bigger numbers. We see this in FotM and Ascendent gear. What's worse is that ANET's plan for players to revisit previous low level areas failed, partly by their own doing. Players don't want to go to lower level areas because stats are lower and therefore so is their e-peen. Not to mention normal drops and karma gain are lower too.  Again, smaller numbers. And now that ANET has encouraged the "bigger stats more e-peen" gear with never ending dungeon, people will never go revisit those lower level areas and repopulate the rest of the game. Same as every other MMO out there. Maybe one day some MMO will truly innovate and do away with levels and the numbers progression game.

[Kymeric]

Runkleford, on 07 December 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Maybe one day some MMO will truly innovate and do away with levels and the numbers progression game.

Some day.

Journey doesn't have the first M (massive), but it is multiplayer and online, and gives me hope for something totally unique and beautiful in a shared, online world.  Though I wish Sony hadn't kept it only for their platform.

Edited by Kymeric, 07 December 2012 - 07:18 PM.

[Blu_Haze]

While I still enjoy GW2 and appreciate it for what it is, this game has made me realize just how much I miss the days of the niche MMO. Back when developers actually tried to be different, and took chances to make themselves stand out from the crowd.

[Dasryn]

Blu_Haze, on 07 December 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

While I still enjoy GW2 and appreciate it for what it is, this game has made me realize just how much I miss the days of the niche MMO. Back when developers actually tried to be different, and took chances to make themselves stand out from the crowd.

they still do, please reference: The Secret World.

[Yui San]

Runkleford, on 07 December 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Maybe one day some MMO will truly innovate and do away with levels and the numbers progression game.

Innovate? One day? That day was like 15 years ago in Ultima Online. ;-)

[Dasryn]

Yui San, on 07 December 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

Innovate? One day? That day was like 15 years ago in Ultima Online. ;-)

Richard Garriott is still alive and he is still a legend and he is developing a game that will change the future of mmos called: Ultimate RPG.

cuz you know, EA aint giving back the ultima name. . .

please reference: http://www.portalari...ts/ultimate-rpg

[Robsy128]

Kymeric, on 07 December 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

Some day.

Journey doesn't have the first M (massive), but it is multiplayer and online, and gives me hope for something totally unique and beautiful in a shared, online world.  Though I wish Sony hadn't kept it only for their platform.

That game was beautiful! Seriously... it should be called a work of art rather than a game.
Anyway, shouldn't this be moved to Gamer's Lair?

[Kymeric]

Rickter, on 07 December 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

they still do, please reference: The Secret World.

Of course, they really need to innovate in ways that make gameplay more fun, rather than terrible.  And not be snarky to their closed beta testers.  That would help, too.

[Swarfega]

I like GW2 but disappointed with the end game.  As a PvE player I can either run dungeons for items I don't need or grind away at stuff for my legendary.

[Sword Hammer Axe]

Notice how people are also on the GW2 forum saying how terrible the game is Well, to be fair, some are just making complaints and some are just frustrated, but some are actually just here to say how terrible the game is XD

[Gileas898]

Rickter, on 07 December 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

i need to you to go to my post and find exactly where it is that i specifically said, "WoW is not a good game".

i dare ya.

oh what's that? its 11:11PM and i edited my post back at 5:08PM?  in other words, stop putting words in my mouth.  i dont know a single soul that is not playing wow who thinks wow is a great game.  you know why? because they'd still be playing wow.

not only did you miss my point, and put words in my mouth, but you also insulted me over the internet by calling me ignorant.  thats three strikes man.

I never claimed you to have said WoW is not a game. I asked you if you really believe that other people can't think WoW is a good game. Read through your own post and you will see that everything you try to apply to me, actually applies to you. Defensive much?

This is what you said by the way: people who defend wow dont actually like wow.

[Dasryn]

Gileas898, on 08 December 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

I never claimed you to have said WoW is not a game. I asked you if you really believe that other people can't think WoW is a good game. Read through your own post and you will see that everything you try to apply to me, actually applies to you. Defensive much?

This is what you said by the way: people who defend wow dont actually like wow.

oh yeah i remember that. . .  lol, but i meant what i said, i just didnt mean for it to come across that way.  there are a lot of people on this forum that do that.  they dont actually like wow, they are just mad that GW2 isnt better than it in their opinion. . .

[Lucas Ashrock]

sty0pa, on 07 December 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

...and that sounds just like whining.
- Yes, GW2 is "just another MMO".  Anyone who expected anything different was simply naive or gullible.  It's a computer game.  It's not going to wake you up in the morning with a hot breakfast, wash your back in the shower, or pay your house bills.  It's just entertainment of a specific genre, and yes, everything in that genre seems to coalesce around a few basic gameplay elements.
- is it 'way more trashy'?  No, objectively I don't think so.  I mean, of course 'trashy' is a vague term, but I think it's a quite beautiful game with high production values.
- incompetent support: hahahaahaahah.  Really, so you've never played a Funcom game?  No, Anet's support may be rather slow and unresponsive, but it IS a free-to-play game.
- dev team releasing trash: here I'd have to generally disagree as well.  The halloween stuff was fairly fun, and lost shores was something new albeit pretty shallow.  But again, these are releases of content that - however shallow - are FREE.  Not "$DLC$" ala Skyrim/Oblivion, etc.
- way less improved functions: not even sure the meaning of your words.  If you say the game is working less well than it did? Nah, they've been slowly squashing bugs.  I play a necromancer, I'm well aware of stuff not getting fixed, but then again, I don't assume I'm the center of their universe.

So my point is that you're fair to say that GW2 is pretty much "another mmo" with all that implies.
The rest of your points just make you look like a whiny bitch. (shrug)

Guess, at launch until geargrind update, gw2 was (as promised/faked) a matter of fun, and pick the skin you love, go for it. We was all equals, no elitism, no "shush noob at lv20 learn to play and farm your ring before join" etc. So no, sorry but we had a different mmo, today we have just a clone

Trashy yes. Barely playable content, exploit over exploit (the way to play this game or you're kicked as a whiner), content still broken, arah for some servers never fixed (noone on those server have any idea of what arah is if not looking a video). Fractals (their new gem) overbugged/ overexploited, dc at fractals and your time spent is just a waste. Lost shores , just a map to gather ori and ancient quickly ,daily and move out.
Do i have to continue? I can dig this game more if you want  

Yes, dev releashing trash. EVERY SINGLE PATCH is bugged, bring exploits, trigger new bugs/old bugs again, make the game unplayable for days (some are still online). No test at all, we are the testers of their trash. Everything happens with the new bug, is our fault playing the game, no refund, no apologizes, shrugs and wait the next trash.
The comparison with paid DLC is just childish. BEcasue the new content was free doesn't means we must have even an "expansion" with lost shores and geargrind, so pathetic. Looking forward to ring of fire lol.
F2p games release content (except MAJOR expansions , sometimes) for free. Gw1 is a good example. Do you know where i got victo's blade on gw1? (just to pick one and make an example of new free content).

As a clone, compared to other clones, yes, this game compared is a fail on a lot of aspects.
No gw2lfg no party etc etc etc. Do i really need to repeat all of them again?

Question: do you actually play the game with us, or just log on weekend a  couple hours, and spit around "you're a whiner" on this forum like a fanboy/troll without any form of solid base of argumentation?

sty0pa, on 07 December 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Maybe objectively, sure.
But that's in a perfect world.

I compare GW2 to the first 3 months of:
UO
Lineage
EQ
AO
DAoC

RS
AC2
EVE
CoH
EQ2
WoW
WW2OL
AoC
PW
ROSE
DDO
LoTRO
Tabula Rasa
AION
WAR
Champions
LEGO
Vindictus
DCUO
Rift
Star Wars
Tera


...all of which I played in their first 6 months.  (yes, obviously I must be a masochist?)

And let me tell you, GW2 is quite polished and stable compared to the BULK of them as of 6 months out.

I'm no fanboi of GW2, but I'm getting a little sick of people whining because this game didn't match up to their magical, heavenlike preconceptions (that have apparently no history of reality).  Get a little perspective people.  This game is by no means perfect but for chrissakes it's at the very least decent, personally I'd say it's pretty good.

No doubt. Noone here said "this is the worst launch of history". SWOTR still keep his record, but FFonline is on top, best fail ever (reborn is coming with sub, next year). Still, i don't remember any of them ( i played them too) where at 3rd month the core of the game (gw2 was without geargrind as initial core) made 4 guilds i was in (90 members the tiniest, 240 the bigger) EMPTY. Fanboys cannot see the massleaving is going on even if you show them in real time
Even geargrinder are getting bored of this content trashed /exploit based/ unplayble content etc game

Asudementio, on 07 December 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

I have never understood the position that the best way to fix a MMO is to let it burn to the ground and start fresh with new management. When games fall into disrepair they typically don't get rehashed unless they cannot be allowed to fail.

Shrugs, sometimes better hands handle a great game with potential like this one for example, in a way better way. Sometimes asking a sub. But if ask a sub means the game turns out to be superb, supported, with pre tested patches, not playing trash, exploit free ( because testers take care to find them and get rid of them) , i would happily pay.
Guess is  the reason they understood was time to kick out some guys aka fail.

http://www.pcgamer.c...ng-realignment/

http://www.reuters.c...ymbol=036570.KS

I hope the second link is not too much hard to be understood without make the brain overload crashing. They are stocks value freefall, aka fail.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 10 December 2012 - 05:13 AM.

[Plasticblanket]

Rickter, on 07 December 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

they still do, please reference: The Secret World.

Sadly that game is p2p

[Dasryn]

Plasticblanket, on 09 December 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

Sadly that game is p2p

correct.  but there are still companies being very innovative.  reference: investigative missions, heck watch one on youtube, it'll blow your mind.  TSW is a little before its time and personally i believe they should abandon the P2P model asap, but dont think niche game devs dont exist, TSW launched last july.

im starting to get the idea that players want their cake and eat it too.  you guys want the content of a sub based mmo, but without the sub.  its so ridiculous really.  forget what they told you in some manifesto, this is a f2p mmorpg.  just be grateful you didnt get something like the Perfect World.

[Chell]

GW2 is my first MMO, mainly because I was never willing to pay monthly. There are a lot of good games and all you have to do is buy and play. Well that's the way it was. The new games have strings attached, Origin, Steam, can hardly find a game to play that doesn't need internet access to play. GW2 seems like a good thing.Game mechanics aren't too bad. But it does cost, drops aren't too good, resale prices are way too low. What do you do with the karma gear when it's lvl 10 and your level 60? Can't sell it, can't salvage it, can't pass to another character. Some of these other MMO's are offering free play, might try one to compare. I like playing GW2, but it needs to be offer a more equitable trading post.

[Arquenya]

Rickter, on 09 December 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

im starting to get the idea that players want their cake and eat it too.  you guys want the content of a sub based mmo, but without the sub.  its so ridiculous really.  forget what they told you in some manifesto, this is a f2p mmorpg.

I wouldn't mind P2P, but which one out there is really worth it?

[Plasticblanket]

Rickter, on 09 December 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

correct.  but there are still companies being very innovative.  reference: investigative missions, heck watch one on youtube, it'll blow your mind.  TSW is a little before its time and personally i believe they should abandon the P2P model asap, but dont think niche game devs dont exist, TSW launched last july.

im starting to get the idea that players want their cake and eat it too.  you guys want the content of a sub based mmo, but without the sub.  its so ridiculous really.  forget what they told you in some manifesto, this is a f2p mmorpg.  just be grateful you didnt get something like the Perfect World.

Back in the days there was no such thing as a sub game, developers made you buy the game and they updated it and brought out expansions.

The sub stuff only game to life because Blizzard was able to pull it off (they were the only ones at that).

[Dasryn]

Arquenya, on 09 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

I wouldn't mind P2P, but which one out there is really worth it?

ther are a lot of companies out there trying to provide great experiences and services.  personally, i was very impressed with Rift.  if youve never played rift, or got caught up in the initial hype then wrote it off, give it anotehr chance, especially with Storm Legion out, they say Rift is neck and neck with WoW as far as content goes, not bad for a 2 year old game.

but i understand, too many of these games have too many things wrong with them to fully justify the sub.

which leads me to my next question:  who decided $15 a month was appropriate?  LOWER THE DAMNED FEE!  $5 - $10 a month or lower!  seriously, that many subs will generate the proper income!

Plasticblanket, on 09 December 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Back in the days there was no such thing as a sub game, developers made you buy the game and they updated it and brought out expansions.

The sub stuff only game to life because Blizzard was able to pull it off (they were the only ones at that).

no im pretty sure EQ was doing it before blizzard. . .

[Targanwolf]

I  think GW2 pve is some of the best I've ever seen. Crafting is  poorly designed because some key items are random drops forcing extensive grinding.And the key reason I play is truely a mess....WvW. Somehow the devs believe that the concept of basketball(lets try to score more points than the other team) is what WvW is all about and that zergs,ques,and micro sized maps that you can traverse in seconds are just fine.And so...I've run out of motivation to play GW2...or any mmog.

[Dasryn]

Targanwolf, on 09 December 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

I  think GW2 pve is some of the best I've ever seen. Crafting is  poorly designed because some key items are random drops forcing extensive grinding.And the key reason I play is truely a mess....WvW. Somehow the devs believe that the concept of basketball(lets try to score more points than the other team) is what WvW is all about and that zergs,ques,and micro sized maps that you can traverse in seconds are just fine.And so...I've run out of motivation to play GW2...or any mmog.

so you play GW2 solely for the WvW?  why dont you try DOTA or LoL?  its not as grand scale per se but the scoring system and game types appear to better suit what you are looking for.

[Plasticblanket]

Targanwolf, on 09 December 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

I  think GW2 pve is some of the best I've ever seen. Crafting is  poorly designed because some key items are random drops forcing extensive grinding.And the key reason I play is truely a mess....WvW. Somehow the devs believe that the concept of basketball(lets try to score more points than the other team) is what WvW is all about and that zergs,ques,and micro sized maps that you can traverse in seconds are just fine.And so...I've run out of motivation to play GW2...or any mmog.

they need to put some variation in the maps of WvW

[chrisbdrake]

Plasticblanket, on 09 December 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

The sub stuff only game to life because Blizzard was able to pull it off (they were the only ones at that).

EVE is considered to be successful also.

[FoxBat]

Rickter, on 09 December 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

no im pretty sure EQ was doing it before blizzard. . .

... and ultima Online before them.

Subs pretty much defined MMOs in the early days. (MMOs, not MUDs...) Blizzard just got a ton of people to actually buy into the scheme.

Edited by FoxBat, 09 December 2012 - 06:50 PM.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Rickter, on 09 December 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

correct.  but there are still companies being very innovative.  reference: investigative missions, heck watch one on youtube, it'll blow your mind.  TSW is a little before its time and personally i believe they should abandon the P2P model asap, but dont think niche game devs dont exist, TSW launched last july.

im starting to get the idea that players want their cake and eat it too.  you guys want the content of a sub based mmo, but without the sub.  its so ridiculous really.  forget what they told you in some manifesto, this is a f2p mmorpg.  just be grateful you didnt get something like the Perfect World.

Lol, you mentioned a piece of art of mmo, , TSW, you're digging your "it's full of players" gw2
Nono don't worry, most didn't left this trashy game for tsw or planetside 2, don't worry, servers are full right?

Arquenya, on 09 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

I wouldn't mind P2P, but which one out there is really worth it?

The one he mentioned, the secret world. Try it, you will ask a refund to Anet asap. (Or just keep your password in a place where you can find it and log, when bored to do something else and check the status lol)

[Dasryn]

Lucas Ashrock, on 10 December 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:

Lol, you mentioned a piece of art of mmo, , TSW, you're digging your "it's full of players" gw2
Nono don't worry, most didn't left this trashy game for tsw or planetside 2, don't worry, servers are full right?

are you drunk?

[Soki]

GW2 failed quite badly at providing polished content on release.
It is also going the way of many bad KMMOs by pushing too much emphasis on the cash shop - pushing players to convert Gems to Gold due to every interesting/unique "prestige" item being simply buyable (with $$), or grindable (after hundreds and hundreds of hours of play).

There are no true tests of individual skill in GW2 - at least not for good players.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Rickter, on 10 December 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

are you drunk?

No i'm not. I was remembering the other thread where you was posting pictures of full server attempting to say the game is at his full power filled of million players or sorta of, until someone explained you they are not full at all. Then you mentioned a piece of art , expecially that content.
Don't you agree TSW is a piece of art about everything, compared to this game?

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 10 December 2012 - 06:08 AM.

[Dasryn]

Lucas Ashrock, on 10 December 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

No i'm not. I was remember the other thread where you was posting pictures of full server attempting to say the game is at his full power filled of million players or sorta of, until someone explained you they are not full at all. Then you mentioned a piece of art , expecially that content.
Don't you agree TSW is a piece of art about everything, compared to this game?

no.  i mentioned the secret world because someone reminisced about how niche game developers dont exist anymore.  i personally think GW2 is a work of art.  

as far as a sub based game that deserves a sub?  id place my bet on Rift.  pound for pound, Rift is an amazing game.  but it charges a sub Lucas, the idea is that i dont have to pay for a sub. . .

[Lucas Ashrock]

Eh i know. I wish tsw was f2p.
And to be clear, i think gw2 is an extremely beautiful game, graphically talking. With a great potential now lost.

But uhm, did you try planetside 2? (agree, maybe an other kind of mmo genre, doesn't fit you maybe)

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 10 December 2012 - 06:26 AM.