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Pricing for Dummies - tips and advise for using the Black Lion Trading Company


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#1 pumpkin pie

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:30 AM

First of all, at the risk of sounding like an idiot, players probably knew this, plus I am not the most efficient /effective seller in the trading house, but, it irks me to see what is happening there, so i thought if you have good tips and advise you should share it. Second of all, i hope this does not make the trading house into a place where you can't buy anything from cos everything is too pricey. I also hope to learn the way to riches from other players as well. so, here goes my humble tip.

when you want to sell an item, try different pricing before confirming the sale, read what you are being tax for your asking price and what are your projected profit.

for instant, an item worth 10 coppers to the merchant, when you sell at 10 coppers in the trading house, you will be charge a 1 copper tax. leaving you with 9 coppers (approximation). If you think an item is worth selling in the trading house, at lease try a higher price tag than selling it to the merchant. You also do not want to over-priced an "ordinary" item since no one is going to buy it over price, so i think the tax amount is some sort of a guide line as to how much one should sell in the trading house.

in my experience , as an example, for lowbie items, that is below 20 coppers one should always sell at 29 coppers max.

Why? you ask, because that is the highest sale price one can place for a 1 copper tax. so instead of paying 1 copper tax for 9 coppers gain why not make 27 coppers instead?

There is a scale to how much tax is impose, i haven't time to chart them, so one should always read what are being tax before confirming the sale, also look at the price if you sell it to the merchant as a comparison.

Anyway i hope that helped.

edit:
i think this is more helpful. good old wiki.

Edited by pumpkin pie, 07 December 2012 - 04:54 AM.


#2 Dasryn

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:41 AM

im just trying to figure out why we are paying taxes in the video game. . . .

#3 pumpkin pie

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:51 AM

View PostRickter, on 07 December 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

im just trying to figure out why we are paying taxes in the video game. . . .

good question, I think that is put there so that players won't sell an item that cost 10 copper to the merchant(npc) at 1000 gold in the trading house. because the listing fees of 5% tax is non refundable.

#4 Asudementio

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:57 AM

View PostRickter, on 07 December 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

im just trying to figure out why we are paying taxes in the video game. . . .

taxes take gold out of the game and help lessen the progression of inflation

#5 geulsae

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:29 PM

One time I saw a few hundred lv71 blue listed @ half its vendor price on TP.
I couldn't believe it and double / triple checked before deciding to buy the lot. But when I hit buy, they were already all gone. :(

#6 Prezz

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:45 PM

View PostRickter, on 07 December 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

im just trying to figure out why we are paying taxes in the video game. . . .

To push people into buying gems and converting them into gold could be the reason.

Hell, who am i kidding, that obviously the reason... Clever little Anet

#7 Chalky

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:53 PM

View PostRickter, on 07 December 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

im just trying to figure out why we are paying taxes in the video game. . . .

It's a gold sink.

Gold sinks exist because gold is constantly being spawned from thin air, therefore it must also disappear into thin air in order to prevent the amount of gold in the world rising so rapidly that everything is worth 20000 gold after a year or two.

It's amazing that anyone still questions this.  It's been a feature of MMOs since they were invented.
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#8 BabyChooChoo

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:02 PM

View PostChalky, on 07 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

It's a gold sink.

Gold sinks exist because gold is constantly being spawned from thin air, therefore it must also disappear into thin air in order to prevent the amount of gold in the world rising so rapidly that everything is worth 20000 gold after a year or two.

It's amazing that anyone still questions this.  It's been a feature of MMOs since they were invented.

I think it speaks volumes about this game that so many people, most of which have probably played a couple of MMOs before, are now questioning these gold sinks...

#9 AMIX_GW2

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:07 PM

Its a gold sink

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#10 Vysander

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:14 PM

View PostBabyChooChoo, on 07 December 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

I think it speaks volumes about this game that so many people, most of which have probably played a couple of MMOs before, are now questioning these gold sinks...

It also speaks volume's to peoples retention. I've never seen a game forum where people didn't complain about gold sinks, and proceed to get told why their vital thousands of times. (obviously not everyone has same exposure..... but c'mon, its been on this forums at least dozens of times)

Just be glad its not D3..... they have real money auction house and tax your USD being spent. That truly servers no purpose other then padding the developers pockets.

Edited by Vysander, 07 December 2012 - 04:15 PM.


#11 BrettM

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:43 PM

I don't recall any big backlash against gold sinks in GW1, but that was likely because they aren't as blatant as those in GW2. Some would argue that the GW1 gold sinks aren't as effective, either, which led to the inflation that resulted in the players themselves settling on ectos and other non-official currencies for trades.

#12 Kymeric

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:45 PM

View Postgeulsae, on 07 December 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

One time I saw a few hundred lv71 blue listed @ half its vendor price on TP.
I couldn't believe it and double / triple checked before deciding to buy the lot. But when I hit buy, they were already all gone. :(

How does this happen?

If I accidentally try to list something at less than vendor, the game tells me that I have to list it at least one copper over vendor price, and won't let me post the sale.

I have no idea why they didn't code it to do the opposite, and prohibit people from placing buy orders at below vendor price.  That's when I usually see the "You can't sell below vendor cost", when I've thoughtlessly clicked "Meet the Highest Buyer".

Edited by Kymeric, 07 December 2012 - 06:46 PM.


#13 Chalky

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:51 PM

View PostBabyChooChoo, on 07 December 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

I think it speaks volumes about this game that so many people, most of which have probably played a couple of MMOs before, are now questioning these gold sinks...

I'm not sure what it says about this game in particular that players continue to stare dumbstruck at the same simple and obvious mechanics in every game they play.  I guess it says that GW2 isn't a particularly effective educational device for the subject of inflation or even how basic numbers work, but I'm not sure it was really intended to be one.
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#14 Zhahz

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:20 PM

View PostBabyChooChoo, on 07 December 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

I think it speaks volumes about this game that so many people, most of which have probably played a couple of MMOs before, are now questioning these gold sinks...

Well, in most MMORPGs, there are lots of things worth selling, usually at profit margins well above vendor cost such that fees and cuts aren't so noticeable.

In GW2, there is almost nothing worth selling for a decent profit and profit margins on most things you can sell suck so bad that the fees feel punishing, even though realisitcally they're no different than what you find in most typical player economies.

I'm usually way into player economy but in GW2 it's just not that much fun.  Dunno if it's good or bad.  It's kind of a buyers market for all but the extremely rare drops or mats, so it's probably better for the majority - if only they had gold to buy anything with!

#15 geulsae

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:33 PM

View PostKymeric, on 07 December 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

How does this happen?

If I accidentally try to list something at less than vendor, the game tells me that I have to list it at least one copper over vendor price, and won't let me post the sale.

I have no idea why they didn't code it to do the opposite, and prohibit people from placing buy orders at below vendor price.  That's when I usually see the "You can't sell below vendor cost", when I've thoughtlessly clicked "Meet the Highest Buyer".
That's why I was checking the price again and again. Could've been just a bug since it disappeared from the listing in about 20 seconds.

#16 sty0pa

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:13 PM

Didn't OU originally have a non-inflationary economy?
As I recall something about the design comments, it was meant to be a giant world simulation - ie, if you wanted bread, you had to gather grain, make flour, make the bread, and bake it in an oven (that you probably made).

The gist was that boring crap like breadmaking would logically not be terribly interesting to players wanting to swing a sword...but economically the demand for a needed commodity (food) would raise the price until it got to a level that actually WAS interesting.
I think he'd even said that the world's supply of money was fixed, so the gold you got off a dead goblin came from somewhere.  

Great idea, too bad it didn't fly.

#17 RAGE

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:47 PM

If there was no tax then everyone could put items up on the tp for ridiculous prices knowing they wouldn't sell, effectively using the tp as extra bank space.

#18 LFk

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:46 PM

View PostRAGE, on 13 December 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

If there was no tax then everyone could put items up on the tp for ridiculous prices knowing they wouldn't sell, effectively using the tp as extra bank space.


View PostChalky, on 07 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

It's a gold sink.

Gold sinks exist because gold is constantly being spawned from thin air, therefore it must also disappear into thin air in order to prevent the amount of gold in the world rising so rapidly that everything is worth 20000 gold after a year or two.

It's amazing that anyone still questions this.  It's been a feature of MMOs since they were invented.


This. This. This.

I don't understand why people still can't think a single step ahead of the obvious.

The first thought is just "I don't want to pay taxes, because then i'll have less money."
That's it. The train of thought is just stuck right there.

The next question should be, "if there were no taxes, then how would I behave?"
The first thing I would do is to stick everything i'm storing on the TP, to free up bank space. Set the sell values absurdly high for reliable storage. Even limiting the number of sell slots per player would not help: 20 slots still means 20 potential bank slots. ArenaNet does not want you using the trading post as another bank at all, evident in many areas. For example, there's only a "take all" button, rather than allowing you to claim certain items. Otherwise, I personally would just use that to temporarily store items I don't immediately need.

Next, you should ask, "How would people with far more resources than myself behave?"
Do you think power traders are already too rampant now? Have you complained about price manipulation and arbitrage lately? Well, I don't, because it's how I make most of my money, but in a world with no taxes, I doubt I can ever keep up. I just don't have the time. Taxes are what discourage the micro-transactions, the constant listing and re-listing. The listing fee encourages you to set a price you think is fair and let it sit, rather than just adjusting it every 3 seconds to try to keep the lowest price on the market. Power traders would need smaller margins to operate, meaning everything suddenly becomes fair game. The number of transactions processed would skyrocket, leading to physical server restraints on the BLTP. In short, a whole bloody mess.

After that, you should ask "What are the long term ramifications of increasing the gold supply?"
In short, inflation. The TP is currently the predominant form of trade, meaning that the 15% sink it provides is the largest one by volume in the entire game. As Chalky mentioned, gold is simply condensed out of thin air. If it has no exit, it accumulates in the system. Prices would steadily increase across the entire board, making the eventual effect even worse: you may have more gold numerically, but your buying power is comparably the same, or less.

So, in summary:
- The listing fee keeps traders honest. It encourages people to set prices they believe are fair value, by providing a penalty for adjustments. It also discourages use of the TP as pseudo-storage.
- The overall tax provides a check against inflation. In addition, it also decreases the benefit of excessive arbitrage, and lowers the absolute volume of transations.

Bottom Line: Taxes are necessary to maintain a healthy game.

Edited by LFk, 13 December 2012 - 11:49 PM.





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