38 replies to this topic

[Jabtangs]

I guess this resolves all the WvW boring threads and makes us wait until Feb or quit WvW.

https://forum-en.gui...irst#post947104

Edited by Jabtangs, 08 December 2012 - 12:07 AM.

[Vanu4life]

Jabtangs, on 08 December 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

I guess this resolves all the WvW boring threads and makes us wait until Feb or quit WvW.

https://forum-en.gui...irst#post947104

Thanks for the update.  Fears confirmed.

[kidawk]

They should at least fix the damn rendering issue.

Very disappointed with them regarding this issue alone.

[Sephirox507]

For the matchup starting on December 7th we’ll be testing out a new culling methodology. This is an interim change to the system which is intended improve player experience while we work on a more comprehensive solution. Under this new, interim system we handle culling of allies and enemies separately which should cut down on the instances of running into a group of completely invisible enemies. This is accomplished at the cost of having a lower maximum on the number of allies that players can see.
Again, this is an interim solution while we work on a longer term change. We’ll be trying out the new system for the duration of the matchup starting on December 7th and then evaluating whether we want to keep it in place until our more comprehensive solution is in place or roll back to the existing behavior. Toward that end we’re very interested in your feedback about the experience of playing with the interim system.

Quote: https://forum-en.gui...irst#post947597

Also I though it was general knowledge that WvW Update was on February, its on Wiki since weeks ago. Nothing new.

Edited by Sephirox507, 08 December 2012 - 12:19 AM.

[Vanu4life]

You misunderstood I think.  Not only are we not getting a WvW update until February, but the Dev's wont talk to us about WvW until that time.  AKA, they are not interested in having a discussion over WvW, period.

[Inraged Twitch]

with Wintersday coming up and then Canthan new year in January/Feb i'm not really shocked that its coming this late.

Edited by Inraged Twitch, 08 December 2012 - 12:27 AM.

[Jabtangs]

Well yea, but at least I hoped they would give us something to wait upon around this week or next.

We can't be blindly walking around the mists you know.

[NotKMoose]

No tears, only dreams now

[Impmon]

Great fix.  Instead of not being able to see enemies you won't be able to see allies.

The logical solution would have been to limit the amount of people per map and create different versions of the same instance.  Kinda like Alterac Valley had a 40 person limit.

[Gilles VI]

Vanu4life, on 08 December 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

You misunderstood I think.  Not only are we not getting a WvW update until February, but the Dev's wont talk to us about WvW until that time.  AKA, they are not interested in having a discussion over WvW, period.

Except Anet have never talked about stuff they weren't absolutely sure about..
Fact they don't want to talk about it yet shows they're still working on it.

Impmon, on 08 December 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

Great fix.  Instead of not being able to see enemies you won't be able to see allies.

The logical solution would have been to limit the amount of people per map and create different versions of the same instance.  Kinda like Alterac Valley had a 40 person limit.

You stil see allies on the mini-map, and I prefer seeing enemies over allies tbh..
And how do you calculate who's winning then? With averages of the different instances?

[Vanu4life]

Gilles VI, on 08 December 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

Except Anet have never talked about stuff they weren't absolutely sure about..
Fact they don't want to talk about it yet shows they're still working on it.

That's not true at all...

ANet announced there was a precursor issue nearly 3 months ago.  About a month or two back, they announced they were going to work on a new system (scav hunt) so you can obtain precursors through a different method.  A few days ago a Dev said he wants to organize a AMA for dungeons.  Dev's right now are in the PvE forums actively talking to the community about PvE and compiling issues and exploits.  A single 60 second look at the Dev tracker shows all this.

So, I don't know how you can say I'm wrong when I'm looking at 10+ Dev quotes from the Dev tracker from the last two days...

[DreadlockrastaGW]

All i want is the same godamn ascended quality gear in wvw, they said they would put it in, but honestly I doubt we will see it until feb as well, and by that time there will be more tumbleweeds in wvw than players.

[Gilles VI]

Vanu4life, on 08 December 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

That's not true at all...

ANet announced there was a precursor issue nearly 3 months ago.  About a month or two back, they announced they were going to work on a new system (scav hunt) so you can obtain precursors through a different method.  A few days ago a Dev said he wants to organize a AMA for dungeons.  Dev's right now are in the PvE forums actively talking to the community about PvE and compiling issues and exploits.  A single 60 second look at the Dev tracker shows all this.

So, I don't know how you can say I'm wrong when I'm looking at 10+ Dev quotes from the Dev tracker from the last two days...

Yes and?

I said they are not going to discuss stuff they are not sure about.
Did they discuss how they were going to buff the dungeon rewards before the 15nov patch?

There is a clear pattern with Anet.
They acknowledge there is a problem.
Then when they made up their mind they talk about it.
Then they implement it.

That's all I said.
Fact they don't wanna discuss WvW issues, not wanna explain how they are going to fix it, is a sign they're still deciding/working on it.

[Vanu4life]

Gilles VI, on 08 December 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Yes and?

I said they are not going to discuss stuff they are not sure about.

Huh?  You quoted my post talking about how the Dev's wont engage the WvW community about anything WvW, which includes everything WvW, not just the upcoming content patch, and you said:

Gilles VI, on 08 December 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

Except Anet have never talked about stuff they weren't absolutely sure about..
Fact they don't want to talk about it yet shows they're still working on it.

Which is factually incorrect and makes no sense.

Gilles VI, on 08 December 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Fact they don't wanna discuss WvW issues, not wanna explain how they are going to fix it, is a sign they're still deciding/working on it.

This also makes no sense.  By not talking to the community about anything WvW is a sign that they are working and fixing things?   What type of logic is this?  So the Dev's in the PvE forums who talk to the PvE community and make lists of the known exploits and take feedback are in reality not doing anything, while the Dev's who haven't touched the WvW forums, who haven't acknowledged, addressed, or compiled lists from the WvW community, are?  The Dev's know of every single issue involving WvW that the community has and they are working on it, evidenced by them being absent and not even talking to the WvW community at all?

[Bloodtau]

Inraged Twitch, on 08 December 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

with Wintersday coming up and then Canthan new year in January/Feb i'm not really shocked that its coming this late.

Different teams work on different stuff....
Events shouldn't have any effect on fixing core mechanics of the game

[Gilles VI]

Vanu4life, on 08 December 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

Huh?  You quoted my post talking about how the Dev's wont engage the WvW community about anything WvW, which includes everything WvW, not just the upcoming content patch, and you said:



Which is factually incorrect and makes no sense.



This also makes no sense.  By not talking to the community about anything WvW is a sign that they are working and fixing things?   What type of logic is this?  So the Dev's in the PvE forums who talk to the PvE community and make lists of the known exploits and take feedback are in reality not doing anything, while the Dev's who haven't touched the WvW forums, who haven't acknowledged, addressed, or compiled lists from the WvW community, are?  The Dev's know of every single issue involving WvW that the community has and they are working on it, evidenced by them being absent and not even talking to the WvW community at all?

Ever read their "we'll talk about it when it's ready" sentence??
As far as I know they always kep their word and talked about it when they had it ready.
Same thing applies to WvW issues, it's not because they do not communicate about everything they do that they are not working on it..

[Vanu4life]

Gilles VI, on 08 December 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

Ever read their "we'll talk about it when it's ready" sentence??
As far as I know they always kep their word and talked about it when they had it ready.
Same thing applies to WvW issues, it's not because they do not communicate about everything they do that they are not working on it..

Ok, Gilles, I think we're talking about two similar yet different things.  I'm not talking about the content that Anet is working on for WvW - whatever that may or may not be - specifically.  I'm talking about Anet not having any representation in the WvW community.

If Anet came out and said they are working on something and specifically addressing somthing, great.  For instance, if Anet came out and said they are aware of the WvW exploits going on (You can go underworld, you can climb almost any wall/door of any Keep, Castle, or Tower) and that they have a fix or currently know of these issues, fantastic.  What I have an issue with is Anet not talking or acknowledging... anything.  These issues have been here since Beta.  They are still here.  Zero acknowledgement.

They have no presence in the WvW community.  They ignore support WvW tickets.  They skip WvW AMA questions even if they are the highest voted questions like with the last AMA.  And now they said they have no intention to do a AMA for WvW or even talk about anything regarding WvW until we get closer to Feb, but they are going to do another for PvE.

People don't have an issue with Anet using the "it's ready when it's ready" line or that "Anet doesn't communicate about everything regarding WvW issues", they have issues with Anet not communicating about anything regarding WvW.

There is no factual grounding to assume Anet knows about everything and is fixing everything.  That is why Dev's communicate and interact with the community.  That is why all the other Devs are currently on the forums, in their sections, interacting with their community.  This has never gone on for WvW.

[Var]

Vanu4life, on 08 December 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

You misunderstood I think.  Not only are we not getting a WvW update until February, but the Dev's wont talk to us about WvW until that time.  AKA, they are not interested in having a discussion over WvW, period.

They've already talked about it, and we've known about this for half a month now. We already know we're getting new rewards and progression in WvW (likely to separate it wholly from the PvE needs aside from not being auto-leveled and geared ala sPvP), and the beacons mechanic that will likely replace the orbs. Likely, come February, we're going to also get new maps that will either be a rotation on the borderlands or new maps where to field more people.

But that's all we know and that's how its always been, they never go into the specific details of how something will work until its initialized. (And they are now actively trying to fix culling, for once.)

Now, does it suck that its not coming for another two months? Ya. Do I expect utterly no PvP related updates over the next two months? No. We know there's a skill patch in bound on the 14th and it may well hold some fixes for WvW that don't include new mechanics, new maps, and new loot (though I don't see why/how new loot would be hard to implement). Heck, they may well add the new loot in December since that's not really a "big new thing for WvW' its just loot and they've been talking about that for a while.

Edited by Var, 09 December 2012 - 12:25 AM.

[Xsiriss]

Impmon, on 08 December 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

The logical solution would have been to limit the amount of people per map and create different versions of the same instance.  Kinda like Alterac Valley had a 40 person limit.

THIS. Basic districting system of instances, should be fine seeing as WvW maps are seperate instances anyway. Might mess with the scoring system but frankly I would much rather see smaller scaler, squad based WvW than' durrr zerrrrg everything'.

[Vanu4life]

Var, on 09 December 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

They've already talked about it, and we've known about this for half a month now. We already know we're getting new rewards and progression in WvW (likely to separate it wholly from the PvE needs aside from not being auto-leveled and geared ala sPvP), and the beacons mechanic that will likely replace the orbs. Likely, come February, we're going to also get new maps that will either be a rotation on the borderlands or new maps where to field more people.

But that's all we know and that's how its always been, they never go into the specific details of how something will work until its initialized. (And they are now actively trying to fix culling, for once.)

Source?  Outside of the new gear, which they said should have made it into WvW but didn't, I've never once heard any of these claims by Anet.

[Var]

Vanu4life, on 09 December 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

Source?  Outside of the new gear, which they said should have made it into WvW but didn't, I've never once heard any of these claims by Anet.

The AMA? The beacons addition, as in this whole new mechanic, was hinted at during the AMA with Chris. Details are scarce on the exact mechanics (as per usual, though I've seen rumors of it being in the vein of contested flag stands in the vein of GvG but those are rumors). Maps is, as should have been clear, a personal expectation more than anything, partly due to how long its taking and partly on the basis of how other "big patches" in this vein have gone in the last two times around which has been with the addition of "real estate". Considering how the patch was described during the PvP State of the Game, I'd say its going to be bigger than a single mechanic, glitch fixes, and ascended gear for tokens traders  (I don't even see why the last one would need to be stalled until Feburary, they can just throw this guy in come December with the gear currently available in ascended). Also if it includes new maps, that would explain the delay in part as well, since while projects may have their own teams, whole map and level design likely is not going to be something feasible for just Habib and the rest of the WvW crew and so time allocation becomes key.

One thing that's a bit nebulous to me at the moment is if they consider the sPvP and WvW as part of a single patch or if, as I had initially thought, we're slated for PvE, WvW, and then PvP patch.

Edited by Var, 09 December 2012 - 12:37 AM.

[Vanu4life]

Wait.

Vanu4life, on 08 December 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

You misunderstood I think.  Not only are we not getting a WvW update until February, but the Dev's wont talk to us about WvW until that time.  AKA, they are not interested in having a discussion over WvW, period.

Var, on 09 December 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

They've already talked about it, and we've known about this for half a month now. We already know we're getting new rewards and progression in WvW (likely to separate it wholly from the PvE needs aside from not being auto-leveled and geared ala sPvP), and the beacons mechanic that will likely replace the orbs. Likely, come February, we're going to also get new maps that will either be a rotation on the borderlands or new maps where to field more people.

You said we're getting all these new things per Anet, then say:

Var, on 09 December 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

The AMA? The beacons addition, as in this whole new mechanic, was hinted at during the AMA with Chris. Details are scarce on the exact mechanics (as per usual, though I've seen rumors of it being in the vein of contested flag stands in the vein of GvG but those are rumors). Maps is, as should have been clear, a personal expectation more than anything, partly due to how long its taking and partly on the basis of how other "big patches" in this vein have gone in the last two times around which has been with the addition of "real estate". Considering how the patch was described during the PvP State of the Game, I'd say its going to be bigger than a single mechanic, glitch fixes, and ascended gear for tokens traders (I don't even see why the last one would need to be stalled until Feburary, they can just throw this guy in come December with the gear currently available in ascended). Also if it includes new maps, that would explain the delay in part as well, since while projects may have their own teams, whole map and level design likely is not going to be something feasible for just Habib and the rest of the WvW crew and so time allocation becomes key.

That's not Anet saying anything, that's you assuming.  We don't know any of that.  We know Anet said the Orbs will be back in some function or another or reworked, as that was said, but everything else is from you.

[Var]

What? We know that beacons are coming as a new mechanic. They said that flat out.

[Vanu4life]

Var, on 09 December 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

What? We know that beacons are coming as a new mechanic. They said that flat out.

Guy, I already said that Anet said they are reworking the Orbs.  Everyone knows that.  It doesn't matter what they call them now if they are going to be vague about it.  They said this even before the AMA when they took the Orbs out.  It was in the patch notes long before the AMA.  Everything else you said came from you.

How is that "Anet talking to us" when everything I asked you to elaborate or cite, you just admitted you made up based on your personal assuptions?

I know this is the internet, but holy shit.

[Var]

Vanu4life, on 09 December 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

How is that "Anet talking to us"?

Because that's how they've always talked to us? Its always been vague hints and rumors until they open their mouths three days prior to release (for all formats). The only exception to that was the PvP blog post a ways back and even that was vague at best. For no format have they ever told us what was coming until just before release. Why? Just look at how people here cling to every word as if it were a promise/prophecy. Peters even said it in the PvP State of the Game, he doesn't want to say anything until is ready and they are sure its going to go in, because people will read into his words and form their own expectations (sort of as I've done above).

So what do you expect Habib to talk about? The mechanics that they are thinking about but haven't finalized in any way, shape or form? They are talking about, right now, the issue that they are working on: culling; they'll talk about other things when they have them done so that they can tell you exactly what it is you're getting until then, ya, we get vague hints at the ideas that they are working with.

Do they need to have more AMA's and SotG talks like the one with Peters? Ya, they do, but even then they're still only going to half-speak about anything concrete.

Edited by Var, 09 December 2012 - 01:13 AM.

[Tellia]

Sephirox507, on 08 December 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

For the matchup starting on December 7th we’ll be testing out a new culling methodology. This is an interim change to the system which is intended improve player experience while we work on a more comprehensive solution. Under this new, interim system we handle culling of allies and enemies separately which should cut down on the instances of running into a group of completely invisible enemies. This is accomplished at the cost of having a lower maximum on the number of allies that players can see.
Again, this is an interim solution while we work on a longer term change. We’ll be trying out the new system for the duration of the matchup starting on December 7th and then evaluating whether we want to keep it in place until our more comprehensive solution is in place or roll back to the existing behavior. Toward that end we’re very interested in your feedback about the experience of playing with the interim system.

Quote: https://forum-en.gui...irst#post947597

well this explains why the culling/rendering issue has been different but worse for me the last few days...they tried to "fix" it and screwed it up. the worst part is, i cant say im surprised...

[Vanu4life]

Var, on 09 December 2012 - 01:12 AM, said:

Snip

No.  You said Anet has already talked to us.  I asked you to elaborate.  You listed things Anet has never, ever, said.  The one thing that is true was the orbs and that was said in patch notes a long time before the AMA.

So once again, please explain how Anet has already talked to us using factual information this time.

Var, on 09 December 2012 - 01:12 AM, said:

For no format have they ever told us what was coming until just before release.

Factually incorrect, as I've already pointed out in this thread.

https://forum-en.gui...xing-precursors

Game Designer Linsey Murdock said:

I am definitely working on the precursor scavenger hunt, but like others have said, things like this take time and I want to get it right. Not to mention, it’s not the only thing on my plate. Please do not expect to see the precursor scavenger hunt in the next patch. I may be awesome, but I am still only human and this is a fairly large amount of work to get done and done right. Please be patient!

22 days ago.  I wish people would stop making things up...

Edited by Vanu4life, 09 December 2012 - 01:52 AM.

[Featherman]

Welp, looks like I won't be logging into WvW until February, if there's anyone left that its.

Xsiriss, on 09 December 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

THIS. Basic districting system of instances, should be fine seeing as WvW maps are seperate instances anyway. Might mess with the scoring system but frankly I would much rather see smaller scaler, squad based WvW than' durrr zerrrrg everything'.

Yeah, I think reduced map capacity will help mitigate the ZergvDoor problem. I can only speak for my mid-tier server, but the current strategy for my bracket seems to be timed zergballing of certain maps while neglecting others. I don't blame anyone for doing this because it's an incredibly effective, but stupid strategy allowed by the combined problems of low server pop, the static score system and map capacity.

Edited by Featherman, 09 December 2012 - 04:12 AM.

[kekuso]

New update scheduled for Wintersday. Lol ye of little faith

[Ualtar]

So much QQ over so little.