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Any successful non-Dueling builds? And 2nd weapon set for scepter/sword?

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#1 dragonphlu

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:57 AM

I see that practically 99% of the time, every mesmer build uses 15-20 Dueling traits. It seems to be a must-have. Now I'm not complaining since I know there are some really good traits in Dueling, but I'm curious if any of you mesmer folks have perform well with builds that doesn't use Dueling traits and if so, wouldn't mind sharing your success and build? Reason I ask these is that I felt that Dueling is so good that it feels that we HAVE to have points into it and I'm trying to see if non-Dueling builds can be decent yet works in a different way to accomplish the same goal.

Also, I've heard about scepter/sword and how defensive the set is. What 2nd weapon would compliment it? GS? MH sword/off-hand? Staff? And what would be a good build that works around with these weapons?

#2 Cereal

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 05:03 AM

I've had success with a 30/0/0/20/20 build based around power and dazing/stuns, but that was pvp. I've been looking into the chaos tree more often trying to find an alternative to my usual 10/30/0/0/30 build and made one build based on conditions, boon duration and to a lesser extent interruptions (10/0/30/0/30). It's more of a straight support build collecting boons and using signet of inspiration to share them among teammates in dungeons. I wouldn't say it's the greatest build but it's PvE so I just try to have fun and change things up.

To add to this; I haven't really found a way to fit scepter into a basic PvE setup. It's mainly a clone producing confusion weapon but most mobs attack way too slow to get any benefit from stacks on confusion or scepter's #2 blocking attack. Most of the time I'll put up several stacks of confusion and then use Illusionary Counter only to have the mob attack after my defenses are down and the confusion has timed out. WvW is different though. I tried a 20/0/0/20/30 build based around glamour skills and confusion with staff and scepter/focus and it was surprisingly fun. I think the average player just doesn't recognize in time the amount of confusion on them until its too late.

Edited by Cereal, 08 December 2012 - 06:28 AM.


#3 dragonphlu

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:42 PM

I too have been using more of the Chaos tree and I'm enjoying its perks. Now that the phantasm traits (including Phantasmal Fury, Vengeful Images, and Phantasmal Healing) can work together, it's making Inspiration somewhat more appealing. I say 'somewhat' due to the criteria it takes to summon a phantasm (i.e. - LoS, not blind/aegis, timing). That 10/0/30/0/30 build you mentioned seem intriguing and I may play around with it a little to see how it goes.

The only time I've used scepter in PvE is when I brought pistol with it, but like you said, it attacks slow and confusion isn't powerful enough to benefit from it. It seems the scepter is more useful in PvP and WvW since confusion does work against players better than normal mobs.

Something dawn on me and made me a bit paranoid is that with almost every mesmer build relying on Dueling so much, I'm afraid of Anet nerfing that trait line or one of the more important traits "to help promote more diverse builds". And the next patch is Dec. 14th and while I'm normally looking forward to it since it's Wintersday, I'm now also worry about what changes will occur.

But thank you for sharing your build and thoughts. I probably will just theorycraft various builds until the 14th.

#4 Cereal

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 04:27 PM

Dueling is a great trait line because of Deceptive Evasion. Critical Infusion will help you dodge more and thus creating more clones to shatter. If there's one thing the mesmer excels at over any of its other abilities, its shattering.

http://gw2skills.net...H5 G1jtnduTqgrB

Here's what I'm experimenting with for the moment. Focus on gathering boons by shattering, Mirror Blade, Chaos Storm, Chaos Armor and then sharing them with your teammates when needed. With the staff auto-attack, Mirror Blade, shattering illusions and swapping weapons if you have Sigils of Battle, you can share a good amount of might stacks with your whole party for a decent amount of time. Gear is really up to preference. I like capitalizing on condition damage (Rune of the Undead), but other runes can be used effectively too. Traits and skills can also be switched out as always depending on the situation (Signet of Midnight -> Blink, Null Field -> Arcane Thievery, etc).

Edited by Cereal, 08 December 2012 - 04:28 PM.


#5 rizipt

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 06:27 PM

I'm not too great but I have a lot of fun with my current setup.  I'm still having issues deciding whether to be more phantasm or shatter so my build lacks a bit of synergy and sometimes I step on my own feet but it's getting much better the more I play.  The key is timing and I can't stress that enough.  It feels sweet when everything works out but improper timing will leave you whiffing at air, blocking attacks that aren't coming and shattering phantasms that are about to burst.  10/30/0/0/30  Scepter/Sword and Sword/Pistol

I cringe everytime I read about how defensive Scepter/Sword is because it's true and yet pigeonholing it as such really downplays its tremendous potential offensive output.  It can yield a bunch of burst damage but you need your enemy to engage you.  Confusion does work differently in PvP or PvE but is effective for both.  In PvE it deals twice as much damage and the attacks are predictable but come less frequently.

Can't take it for granted but if I ever get the jump, I like to get a phantasm out and swap weapons before combat actually starts.  It seems like cheating a bit but if I can get out two phantasms and not be stuck in a weapon set, I'm going to do it.  If that doesn't happen, I get out the Swordsman and head in with the goal of having two illusions when I reach melee range.  This can be from scepter autoattacks or a dodge.  The idea is to have your first block create your third illusion.  Once this happens, immediately shatter Distortion and cast Confusing Images.  You've made yourself immune for 4 sec, granted might and retaliation while applying 9 stacks of confusion.  When distortion wears off, shatter yourself for a quick diversion and then use your other block.  You'll still have confusion on him and a fresh coat of retaliation.  You can then Mind Wrack him, switch to Sword/Pistol and chop him up or shoot him down depending on how he reacts, but the majority happens with Scepter/Sword.  For your end, the two blocks and Confusing Images will do like 10k and for the 6 or so seconds of retaliation/confusion at about 1.3k a swing, he's going to mash himself up pretty good.  If timed perfectly you can use both weapons to make yourself immune for 9 seconds in a row.  Block (1) Distortion (4) Diversion (1) Block (1) Blurred Frenzy (2)  It's really important that you block before Distortion because you can't block attacks that aren't coming through and you won't get the block damages.

#6 dragonphlu

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 08:50 PM

View PostCereal, on 08 December 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Dueling is a great trait line because of Deceptive Evasion. Critical Infusion will help you dodge more and thus creating more clones to shatter. If there's one thing the mesmer excels at over any of its other abilities, its shattering.

http://gw2skills.net...H5 G1jtnduTqgrB

Here's what I'm experimenting with for the moment. Focus on gathering boons by shattering, Mirror Blade, Chaos Storm, Chaos Armor and then sharing them with your teammates when needed. With the staff auto-attack, Mirror Blade, shattering illusions and swapping weapons if you have Sigils of Battle, you can share a good amount of might stacks with your whole party for a decent amount of time. Gear is really up to preference. I like capitalizing on condition damage (Rune of the Undead), but other runes can be used effectively too. Traits and skills can also be switched out as always depending on the situation (Signet of Midnight -> Blink, Null Field -> Arcane Thievery, etc).

Oooo, that is an interesting build! Ever since I gave Signet of Inspiration a try, I'm enjoying it (especially in dungeons and group plays in WvW). I remember back in GW1, my first mesmer build was the "signet smiter" (using Me/Mo) and I was surprised that GW2 mesmers didn't get a whole lot of options for signets compare to GW1 mesmers. I was trying to utilize with having boons and signets, but I couldn't figure it out cause I was too much focusing in having Dueling traits. You brought up a new point of view and help gave me that "little push" I need! Thank you very much! I'll give your build a try and let you know how it goes! :)

I'm surprised that a "boonful mesmer" isn't popular but I guess it's because "other professions can do better". While mesmers do have some unique skills (i.e. - portal, time warp, signet of inspiration), I think mesmers fill their role most of the time as the "bard" of the group or the "icing on the cake" - basically, making things easier/more fun or less frustrating.

Rune of the Undead, eh? I've heard about that rune from time to time. I'm currently using rampager armor, but I notice that I tend to rely on my conditions/boons more than direct damage more often so maybe a carrion or soldier armor set may work; possibly shaman since clones/phantasms can also receive boons. I'll have to do some more research/experimenting!

View Postrizipt, on 08 December 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

I'm not too great but I have a lot of fun with my current setup.  I'm still having issues deciding whether to be more phantasm or shatter so my build lacks a bit of synergy and sometimes I step on my own feet but it's getting much better the more I play.  The key is timing and I can't stress that enough.  It feels sweet when everything works out but improper timing will leave you whiffing at air, blocking attacks that aren't coming and shattering phantasms that are about to burst.  10/30/0/0/30  Scepter/Sword and Sword/Pistol

I cringe everytime I read about how defensive Scepter/Sword is because it's true and yet pigeonholing it as such really downplays its tremendous potential offensive output.  It can yield a bunch of burst damage but you need your enemy to engage you.  Confusion does work differently in PvP or PvE but is effective for both.  In PvE it deals twice as much damage and the attacks are predictable but come less frequently.

Can't take it for granted but if I ever get the jump, I like to get a phantasm out and swap weapons before combat actually starts.  It seems like cheating a bit but if I can get out two phantasms and not be stuck in a weapon set, I'm going to do it.  If that doesn't happen, I get out the Swordsman and head in with the goal of having two illusions when I reach melee range.  This can be from scepter autoattacks or a dodge.  The idea is to have your first block create your third illusion.  Once this happens, immediately shatter Distortion and cast Confusing Images.  You've made yourself immune for 4 sec, granted might and retaliation while applying 9 stacks of confusion.  When distortion wears off, shatter yourself for a quick diversion and then use your other block.  You'll still have confusion on him and a fresh coat of retaliation.  You can then Mind Wrack him, switch to Sword/Pistol and chop him up or shoot him down depending on how he reacts, but the majority happens with Scepter/Sword.  For your end, the two blocks and Confusing Images will do like 10k and for the 6 or so seconds of retaliation/confusion at about 1.3k a swing, he's going to mash himself up pretty good.  If timed perfectly you can use both weapons to make yourself immune for 9 seconds in a row.  Block (1) Distortion (4) Diversion (1) Block (1) Blurred Frenzy (2)  It's really important that you block before Distortion because you can't block attacks that aren't coming through and you won't get the block damages.

I do apologize that I refer to scepter/sword as a defensive set, but you're right, it's defensive yet has offensive output if the enemy targets you. IIRC, confusion is halved in PvP, but it's still useful. Blocking as a mesmer takes practice compare to blocking as a guardian or warrior. I'll try following your strategy. I do recall blocking/Blurred Frenzy/Distortion during the Subject Alpha fights in CoE dungeon and that made me wonder how scepter/sword would fare. Thanks for sharing your build and tip on how to work out the weapon sets! ^^

Edited by dragonphlu, 08 December 2012 - 08:56 PM.


#7 Traveller

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:05 PM

I have had some fun lately using different kinds of staff builds soloing and in groups. Basically with runes of undead and going heavy on conditions + spread boons around to your team as well with Sig of Inspiration.

I had a hard time giving up 10 domination (+20% mind wrack damage) but at the moment I'm running 0/20/20/0/30. Your mileage may vary, as they say. But I wanted some more toughness and those staff traits in. It's not a non-dueling build you were looking for, but it would probably work well even without points in dueling, I just think that Phantasmal fury and Deceptive evasion are too useful for me to not take along.

Edited by Traveller, 08 December 2012 - 11:06 PM.


#8 EphraimGlass

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

View PostCereal, on 08 December 2012 - 05:03 AM, said:

I've had success with a 30/0/0/20/20 build based around power and dazing/stuns, but that was pvp. I've been looking into the chaos tree more often trying to find an alternative to my usual 10/30/0/0/30 build and made one build based on conditions, boon duration and to a lesser extent interruptions (10/0/30/0/30). It's more of a straight support build collecting boons and using signet of inspiration to share them among teammates in dungeons. I wouldn't say it's the greatest build but it's PvE so I just try to have fun and change things up.

To add to this; I haven't really found a way to fit scepter into a basic PvE setup. It's mainly a clone producing confusion weapon but most mobs attack way too slow to get any benefit from stacks on confusion or scepter's #2 blocking attack. Most of the time I'll put up several stacks of confusion and then use Illusionary Counter only to have the mob attack after my defenses are down and the confusion has timed out. WvW is different though. I tried a 20/0/0/20/30 build based around glamour skills and confusion with staff and scepter/focus and it was surprisingly fun. I think the average player just doesn't recognize in time the amount of confusion on them until its too late.

This entire thread got me thinking about how to avoid Dueling in my own trait configuration.  I don't have extensive results to share yet but my experience so far is that a similar build to the one that Cereal is discussing is a lot of fun.  What I'm using is 30/0/0/10/30, sort of a hybrid of the two arrangements Cereal mentioned.  Major traits revolve around adding conditions to glamours and enhancing confusion.

I use sceptre/pistol as my primary weapon set and sword/whatever as my secondary.  I keep Feedback and Null Field on my bar most of the time, with the third utility slot going to whatever seems useful at the moment.  My Elite is Time Warp.

With this build, the start of a battle often looks something like this:  Feedback, Duelist (taking advantage of the ethereal field), #1 until I have two more clones.  By this point the Duelist has fired a second volley, and then I shatter.  If it's a tough enemy, I can follow with Confusing Images.  The glamours have a fairly long cooldown but that's okay because the emphasis on confusion means you have a lot to do even when you don't have combo fields to tinker with.

One really nice thing about this build is that it offers a lot of depth without requiring you to pay to respec.  You can change your trait arrangement to drop glamours and concentrate more on shatters, mantras, or phantasms.

#9 mouseden

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:21 PM

View PostEphraimGlass, on 20 December 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

This entire thread got me thinking about how to avoid Dueling in my own trait configuration.  I don't have extensive results to share yet but my experience so far is that a similar build to the one that Cereal is discussing is a lot of fun.  What I'm using is 30/0/0/10/30, sort of a hybrid of the two arrangements Cereal mentioned.  Major traits revolve around adding conditions to glamours and enhancing confusion.

I use sceptre/pistol as my primary weapon set and sword/whatever as my secondary.  I keep Feedback and Null Field on my bar most of the time, with the third utility slot going to whatever seems useful at the moment.  My Elite is Time Warp.

With this build, the start of a battle often looks something like this:  Feedback, Duelist (taking advantage of the ethereal field), #1 until I have two more clones.  By this point the Duelist has fired a second volley, and then I shatter.  If it's a tough enemy, I can follow with Confusing Images.  The glamours have a fairly long cooldown but that's okay because the emphasis on confusion means you have a lot to do even when you don't have combo fields to tinker with.

One really nice thing about this build is that it offers a lot of depth without requiring you to pay to respec.  You can change your trait arrangement to drop glamours and concentrate more on shatters, mantras, or phantasms.

This is very interesting - thanks for sharing.  I find it very helpful when people post about different builds and it gets me thinking about what I could differently.

For this kind of build, are you favoring a specific set armor/runes/trinkets?  I like changing traits around but dread the idea of needing multiple sets of gear to be efficient.

#10 EphraimGlass

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:43 PM

View Postmouseden, on 20 December 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

This is very interesting - thanks for sharing.  I find it very helpful when people post about different builds and it gets me thinking about what I could differently.

For this kind of build, are you favoring a specific set armor/runes/trinkets?  I like changing traits around but dread the idea of needing multiple sets of gear to be efficient.

I don't have the question of insignia sets pinned down yet but I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up with Carrion armour and maybe Knight's jewelry.  It's a balanced build so it's not going to fill any one role exceptionally well but it will switch hit with ease.

#11 EphraimGlass

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 05:56 PM

I've tested more extensively and I've decided that 30 points in Domination is too much.  Going 10 points deeper into Inspiration buys more more versatility and the loss of the Domination grandmaster traits doesn't hurt much.  That means I'm at 20-0-0-20-30.  Here's what my general roaming build looks like:

Master Build
Weapons:  Sceptre / Pistol and Greatsword
Skills:  Ether Feast, Feedback, Null Field, Signet of Midnight, and Time Warp
Domination:  Rending Shatter and Confusing Enchantments
Inspiration:  Glamour Mastery and Malicious Sorcery
Illusions:  Master of Misdirection, Blinding Befuddlement, and Dazzling Glamours

This is a punishing, disruptive build that emphasizes spreading around confusion, regular shattering, and occasional blinds.  Illusionary Retribution (Illusions, master, minor trait) ensures that your frequent use of Mind Wrack and Cry of Frustration will keep a couple of stacks of confusion on all enemies in a cluster.
Meanwhile, you can focus a Duelist and/or a Berserker on the veteran in the group - Time your shatters so that they occur right after an attack from the Duelist.  Its barrage has a distinctive audio cue, so that's easy to do.  Confusing Images and judicious use of ethereal fields allow you to periodically spike a key mob with 8+ stacks of confusion.
Illusionary Counter and Signet of Midnight provide a source of blinding, so they double as a source of confusion (because of Blinding Beffudlement.)  Don't save them for special occasions.

Lunch time is almost over so I can't elaborate further but sometime later, I'll show how this build swaps out the glamours and goes more aggressive with a greater emphasis on frequent swaps to the greatsword.

Edited by EphraimGlass, 08 January 2013 - 05:59 PM.


#12 Cereal

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:21 PM

I've made some improvements since I've had time to test the build I posted before. Now it just focuses more on sharing boons while still having steady damage and actively applying conditions.

http://gw2skills.net...NA;TQAA1CusEZIC

The benefit from Bountiful Interruption was too small to be beneficial, even though you can "interrupt" champion bosses, the boons received were too short of a duration and too random to be useful. Still within the Chaos line, Chaotic Transference mathematically isn't that useful. I also removed 5 points from Illusions because; A) You no longer need Imbued Diversion and B) You're rarely in range for Illusionary Persona to be effective. Shattered Strength is still a very useful trait despite what people say. They don't realize it lasts for 10 seconds and this along with constantly swithing weapons with Sigil of Battle can give team members and yourself a good amount of might. The extra 15 points were put into Inspiration mainly for Phantasmal Healing. Reason being was that Illusionary Membrane (gives protection upon receiving regeneration) is a great trait, but Metaphysical Rejuvenation (gain regeneration at 75% heath) is on a 30 second cool-down. Illusionary Membrane has no internal cool-down, so while you can receive regeneration from outside sources, just staying near your iWarlock and spamming your iBerserker within range of your melee teammates will be great support for allies and yourself.

I noticed while playing that the build has great diversity within traits and utility skills. For example Signet of Inspiration never leaves, but the other two slots can be filled by a number of skills. Signet of Midnight, Blink, and Mirror Images are all great. Use Nullfield for condition heavy dungeons and Feedback for areas with lots of projectiles. Use Arcane Thievery in the dredge fractal to give your teammates an insane duration of protection and regeneration or in the underwater fractal to steal 25 stacks of might from the jellyfish boss. If you're comfortable with your ability to pump out illusions using Signet of Illusions isn't a bad choice either, which will give you another opportunity to use Cry of Frustration and Distortion. If you're not running at least two signets switch out Signet Mastery for Rending Shatter. The build does pretty well in WvW also, just swap out traits and skills accordingly. Consider using Medic's Feedback/Glamour Mastery in Inspiration or Crippling Dissipation in Domination.

The build works best with Soldier's or Carrion armor/accessories, but I'm still debating which runes to use. Altruism seems interesting, both improving boon duration and giving might/fury upon healing, but I've never liked healing power and I don't know the official cap you can reach with boon duration. Other runes that increase boon duration, especially those that increase might, are worth looking into also. I just can't decide which would be best for what the setup tries to achieve. Maybe going x6 Crest of the Soldier might be best, but I love the active effects of runes.

Edit: Another thing, running this build with just one guardian will make for a very sturdy team indeed.

Edited by Cereal, 09 January 2013 - 03:23 PM.


#13 dragonphlu

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:35 PM

View PostEphraimGlass, on 08 January 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

I've tested more extensively and I've decided that 30 points in Domination is too much.  Going 10 points deeper into Inspiration buys more more versatility and the loss of the Domination grandmaster traits doesn't hurt much.  That means I'm at 20-0-0-20-30.  Here's what my general roaming build looks like:

Master Build
Weapons:  Sceptre / Pistol and Greatsword
Skills:  Ether Feast, Feedback, Null Field, Signet of Midnight, and Time Warp
Domination:  Rending Shatter and Confusing Enchantments
Inspiration:  Glamour Mastery and Malicious Sorcery
Illusions:  Master of Misdirection, Blinding Befuddlement, and Dazzling Glamours

This is a punishing, disruptive build that emphasizes spreading around confusion, regular shattering, and occasional blinds.  Illusionary Retribution (Illusions, master, minor trait) ensures that your frequent use of Mind Wrack and Cry of Frustration will keep a couple of stacks of confusion on all enemies in a cluster.
Meanwhile, you can focus a Duelist and/or a Berserker on the veteran in the group - Time your shatters so that they occur right after an attack from the Duelist.  Its barrage has a distinctive audio cue, so that's easy to do.  Confusing Images and judicious use of ethereal fields allow you to periodically spike a key mob with 8+ stacks of confusion.
Illusionary Counter and Signet of Midnight provide a source of blinding, so they double as a source of confusion (because of Blinding Beffudlement.)  Don't save them for special occasions.

Lunch time is almost over so I can't elaborate further but sometime later, I'll show how this build swaps out the glamours and goes more aggressive with a greater emphasis on frequent swaps to the greatsword.

That's the trait build setup (20/0/0/20/30) I've been using and enjoying! I really love the versatility and flexibility that this build has to offer and I practically keep Signet of Inspiration all the time. I love how I can swap to using glamours, mantra-spam heal, boon supporter, interrupter, etc. What is funny is that I'm currently in a rare/major armor and rune/sigil set and still doing very well in dungeons and PvE (haven't tried WvW yet); I'm sure I'll perform even better if I had all exotic armor/accessories and superior runes/sigil. I'm in process of going for soldier's armor, but I'm currently liking my carrion armor, accessories, and weapons (it allows me to utilize the staff or scepter more). My runes are actually 3 different kinds - water, monk, and fighter; the last one may change, but I'm liking the extended boon duration with Signet of Inspiration. My sigils are battle and bloodlust so that I can get more might and power. I'm currently using:

Weapons: Staff & Sword/Focus (or other offhands)
Skills: Ether Feast, Decoy, Signet of Inspiration, and Null Field
Domination: Crippling Dissipation and Signet Mastery
Inspiration: Glamour Mastery and Vigorous Revelation
Illusion: Confusing Cry, Compounding Power, and Illusionary Persona

Of course, this isn't what I always run. I can swap to any of the weapons, skills, and major traits and still have decent damage and support with some control (varies based on weapons). By far, this is the most successful non-Dueling build I've been playing and enjoying for me. ^__^

#14 Morghana

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:36 AM

I have been testing a lot with 0/25/20/0/25 Staff/Sword-P for condition damage shattering, and Debilitating Dissipation because I reaaally hate when my illusions get destroyed before I can shatter them, I actually love chaos trait line.

I have been fooling with 0/20/0/20/30 or 10/20/10/0/30 .. or phantasm master with a 20/20/0/25/5

But there is absolutely NO way I skip duelling trait line... for me those 20 points and the illusions 5 are the only must have I need. Constant vigor, clone on dodge  and illusions cd recharge faster are the key of my mesmer mindset.

#15 EphraimGlass

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:54 PM

View Postdragonphlu, on 09 January 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

That's the trait build setup (20/0/0/20/30) I've been using and enjoying! I really love the versatility and flexibility that this build has to offer and I practically keep Signet of Inspiration all the time. I love how I can swap to using glamours, mantra-spam heal, boon supporter, interrupter, etc.

Obviously, I'm doing the glamours build, so that's clear enough to me.  With signet of inspiration, exchanging the greatsword for a staff, and exchanging traits so that your shatters produce bonus boons instead of bonus conditions, the boon supporter build is clear as well.  I had been trying to make something of the mantra-spam build, though, and I couldn't figure it out.  That's part of the reason why I decreased my commitment to the Domination line.  I didn't need the grandmaster trait to boost my mantras anymore.  Could you go into greater detail how that configuration works for you?  I'd also like to know how you're executing interruptions.  I use them occasionally because the offhand pistol makes them easy enough.  Basing a build around them didn't seem like a good idea, though.  MAYBE if I were going into a tough boss fight, I could see the advantage of an interruption build.

#16 dragonphlu

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:55 AM

View PostEphraimGlass, on 12 January 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

Obviously, I'm doing the glamours build, so that's clear enough to me.  With signet of inspiration, exchanging the greatsword for a staff, and exchanging traits so that your shatters produce bonus boons instead of bonus conditions, the boon supporter build is clear as well.  I had been trying to make something of the mantra-spam build, though, and I couldn't figure it out.  That's part of the reason why I decreased my commitment to the Domination line.  I didn't need the grandmaster trait to boost my mantras anymore.  Could you go into greater detail how that configuration works for you?  I'd also like to know how you're executing interruptions.  I use them occasionally because the offhand pistol makes them easy enough.  Basing a build around them didn't seem like a good idea, though.  MAYBE if I were going into a tough boss fight, I could see the advantage of an interruption build.

I'll try to explain as clear as I can about the mantra-spam part. The mantra-spam build with domination is a bit different when using the 20/0/0/20/30. I utilize the mantra-spam mainly with the Restorative Mantras trait, so something like this:

http://www.guildhead...MhmG9MGxozcackq

Besides Diversion, focus #4 and gs #5 can also interrupt (pistol can be use like you said). Is it a pure interrupter build? No, but it does have a few interrupts and it makes the minor Dom traits more like bonuses. Ever since Feedback no longer "deflects" the graveling breeders when they puke more hatchlings, I resort to using one of the 3 methods of interrupting. Another interrupt is Signet of Domination, but it has a long cooldown, even traited. The thing that I originally debated on was whether keeping Imbued Diversion or Illusionary Persona; in the end, I went with IP cause of its capability of utilizing with all the shatters.

Mantra of Pain plays a damage/support skill and what is nice about it is that I can use it while doing other skills. With the charging reduce to ~3 secs instead of 4, it makes it more powerful. Mantra of Recovery may not be the best heal skill, but it does activate Restorative Mantras and works also with Mender's Purity. Mantra of Resolve is our fastest condition removal skill and I sometimes replace it with Mantra of Concentration with Mender's Purity if facing mobs that like to interrupt me more than conditioning me. I did not choose Mantra of Distraction due to its long cooldowns (both during Power Lock and mantra cooldown); even though it'll work better with the minor Dom traits, I'd rather interrupt using the gs/focus/pistol/Diversion so that I can have a different utility provided for myself and the party.

Hopefully, I help explain in more detail about the mantra-spammer and interrupter. They're not 100% pure, but they can still get the job/role done. The thing I love about this 20/0/0/20/30 build setup is how much versatile it is to play with.

Edit: Almost forgot that staff #5 has a chance of interrupting as well.

Edited by dragonphlu, 13 January 2013 - 10:21 AM.


#17 EphraimGlass

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:28 PM

View Postdragonphlu, on 13 January 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

snip

When you said that you played an interruption build, I thought that you were describing a build designed around the concept.  You mentioned:
Illusionary Wave (Greatsword #5)
Into the Void (Focus #4)
Magic Bullet (Pistol #5)
Mantra of Distraction
Signet of Domination

I had started out trying to create a build that would use four of them at once and it was just awful.  Now I have just two most of the time (Illusionary Wave and Magic Bullet) and I'll sometimes substitute Signet of Domination for Signet of Midnight.  (The passive effect of Domination is better for me even though I prefer blinding to interrupting.  I brought it in for Sorrow's Embrace the other night since that's full of Dredge, which are immune to blindness.)  I think that a lot of Mesmer builds have access to two or three of them at once, though; and none has access to all five.  As soon as one squeezes in the fourth one and starts changing traits around to emphasize interruption over whatever else one's build could be doing, I think that one has made a mistake.  Don't get me wrong, they're nice to have in a pinch but they're not the core of a build.

As for the mantra spam build, I think I can see what you're driving at.  Looking at the build that you linked, I can see where you had to make some tough choices, though.  In addition to Vigorous Revelation+Mantra of Resolve vs. Mender's Purity+Mantra of Concentration, which you mention, I also see that you've traited a lot of damage dealing, while I think that this could be better as a more supportive build  Domination doesn't let you do much else unfortunately.  You're "forced" to trait in a way that asks for both signets and for mantras to be on your bar, which seems like a waste.  I'm not sure what else I would do with the Domination line.

Just to tighten up the build, I might select Halting Strike instead of Signet Mastery, then switch Illusionary Persona in the Illusions line to Imbued Diversion.  Would I get rid of Signet of Inspiration?  Situationally, yes.  Depending on how many conditions mobs are throwing around and how much help my party needs to get rid of them, I might sub in Phantasmal Disenchanter or Null Field instead.

I can see the potential here but I also see that the traits available to us pull in different directions and it's a tricky balancing act to get right.

#18 zaniix

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:55 PM

I do not see the point of Scepter I can build inclusions just as fast with Staff and it is more useful overall.

#19 dragonphlu

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:16 PM

View PostEphraimGlass, on 14 January 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

-snip-

Like I said, it's not a pure interrupt build, but at least it does make the Dom minor traits not totally useless. If I really want to have a build dedicated to interrupting, I'd go into Chaos instead of Inspiration. I'll admit that the most fun build with this setup is with glamours + Signet of Inspiration. I like how I can support my allies while still dealing damage, but most people usually tend to focus on one role. The mantra-spam build is okay to play and I've used it in SE and AC dungeon about a week ago, but I still prefer using glamours + SoI.

Lately, I've been wanting to try out a 20/0/20/0/20 build setup with the remaining 10 put either in illusion or chaos and see how it fares, but the only concern is that I'll have no way of gaining vigor unless I put the remaining 10 in either Dueling or Inspiration. I still do have a Dueling build setup with 0/20/20/0/20 and putting the remaining 10 elsewhere and it's enjoyable as well.

Edited by dragonphlu, 14 January 2013 - 06:24 PM.


#20 EphraimGlass

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:47 PM

View Postzaniix, on 14 January 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

I do not see the point of Scepter I can build inclusions just as fast with Staff and it is more useful overall.

I think this is strictly a matter of preference.  I'm playing a confusion-oriented build so Confusing Images (#3) is almost mandatory.  I like Illusionary Counter a great deal.  It's a good mitigation skill that can be used either to produce a clone or to apply blindness (and therefore, an extra stack of confusion.)  As far as clone production goes, it may not be the fastest mechanism but it operates in a good rhythm with the rest of the build.  I can drop an Illusionary Duelist and then wand out two additional clones.  They'll be ready to shatter at just about the time that the Duelist unloads its second volley.




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