30 replies to this topic

[iLag]

Simply put, Gear-Grind adds a much higher sense of accomplishment once you reach something than getting something that 'looks better'. IF I wanted that I wouldn't play MMORPG's, I'd play something like Sims. At first I thought It would've been awesome but hey it wasn't. Thats why I quit this game and wanted a refund ( But I was too late to... I only played this game for like two weeks btw ). Now that I come back I see this and people complaining. This is one of the best things to happen.

The thing is non-gear grind is NEARLY impossible. The only thing that replaces it is ranking and that is IMPOSSIBLE to create in a MMORPG for PvE.

[Dasryn]

you are probably going to get destroyed by all the GW1 fans who felt like that game did a great job of achieving the no gear grind approach.

im glad you are happy with the changes, there are gamers that play mmos for the prestige of having hte best gear in the game achieved through means of difficult content.

[I'm Squirrel]

I'm pretty sure they had gear-grind since release.

The main differences between GW1 and GW2 gear gear-grind is that:

GW1: Armor is more of a collectible item; it is not necessary to grind for max stats. You feel accomplished by collecting them all.

GW2: Gear-grinding is necessary to get max stats+superior rune sets. You feel accomplished when you have max stats.

I definitely prefer GW1's take on armor grinding, the armor sets looked much better than GW2 armor sets, and weren't overly restricted stat-wise.

I WOULD prefer GW2's gear-grind IF it was worth it, but it's not.
1. You get downscaled horribly, whenever facing lower leveled opponents.
2. It barely makes a difference in combat, other than superior runes giving you extra "passive" skills.

[Ingway]

Thing is... having a gear grind like as of now requires too much of a grind... you may say no, but it's there, you need to grind gold, and mobs to get 250 tier 6 blue mats (wich takes freaking forever depending on the one you want), alot of globs, and etc...

The game was fine before that, there is an extend of grind but it was nowhere near the one there is right now... i haven't even played the game in a good while because of it, they admited that the numbers of mats needed is rather absurd and they plan on lowering it, wich if it happens will be when i give this game another chance. People who alredy made the items will probably cry about it tough...

Grinding is not really fun in any way, there's no sense of acomplishiment in doing the same thing over and over just to get the best items... actually it just makes the game dull...

Edited by Ingway, 09 December 2012 - 05:01 AM.

[Dasryn]

my thing is, if they "palnned" to lower it, why hasnt it been lowered in a quick patch?  to change mat requirements shouldnt be rocket science, if they really wanted to lower mat costs, they wouldve by now.

im thinking its like new technology.  think blu ray players.  when they first came out they were around $300, now you can buy a blu ray player for $80.

they know they've got us by the balls.  i talked with some supposed game devs today in map chat and after a conversation that told me they knew a little of what they were talking about, i asked them to be straight up, working in the gaming industry, do they know they have us gamers by the balls.

they both said "yup".

of course these are people in map chat but they seemed to know what they were talking about.  we talked extensively, they never told me who they worked for but i imagine they wanted to keep that information personal.

[Ardeni]

Actually the hard to acquire cosmetic gear provides me with the same sence of accomplishment as the statted gear. In fact, the ascended rings that have no effect on my looks aren't as thrilling to get as some good-looking dungeon armour, which would be easier to get than the rings. I've had enough of gear grind in other games and I am not happy with this new direction that gw2 is taking. So far it hasn't been that bad, but should new gear tiers be introduced after ascended and should they require as specific methods of getting them, I would not be pleased.

By the way, you could have added your opinion on an existing thread instead of making a new thread specifically about your opinion. This isn't a blog, you know.

[Rhydian]

iLag, on 09 December 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

Simply put, Gear-Grind adds a much higher sense of accomplishment once you reach something than getting something that 'looks better'. IF I wanted that I wouldn't play MMORPG's, I'd play something like Sims. At first I thought It would've been awesome but hey it wasn't. Thats why I quit this game and wanted a refund ( But I was too late to... I only played this game for like two weeks btw ). Now that I come back I see this and people complaining. This is one of the best things to happen.

The thing is non-gear grind is NEARLY impossible. The only thing that replaces it is ranking and that is IMPOSSIBLE to create in a MMORPG for PvE.

Its fine if you like it, but my intention was to get away from players like you and your playstyle. So naturally I feel cheated, I got my refund and purchased a few large pizzas got the Arma2 mod and play DayZ, and pizza was a better deal.

Edited by Rhydian, 09 December 2012 - 07:24 AM.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Well, who is used to other geargrind games, can love this game too. For example i farmed like a robot for weeks all ectos / shards needed to craft 2 obsidian armor, i'm used, i can farm fractals 300k times not even feeling the difference, sure. It's a mindset.
Except gw1 was years ago, now we have way better to spend the time with. But well, let's put an imho before someone accuse me to put the law on my post

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 09 December 2012 - 07:31 AM.

[Minu]

iLag, on 09 December 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

Simply put, Gear-Grind adds a much higher sense of accomplishment once you reach something than getting something that 'looks better'. IF I wanted that I wouldn't play MMORPG's, I'd play something like Sims. At first I thought It would've been awesome but hey it wasn't. Thats why I quit this game and wanted a refund ( But I was too late to... I only played this game for like two weeks btw ). Now that I come back I see this and people complaining. This is one of the best things to happen.

The thing is non-gear grind is NEARLY impossible. The only thing that replaces it is ranking and that is IMPOSSIBLE to create in a MMORPG for PvE.

Always good to meet a generic MMO sheep.

Simply put, do not forget to add "in my opinion".

Edited by Minu, 09 December 2012 - 07:42 AM.

[Rhydian]

Lucas Ashrock, on 09 December 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

Well, who is used to other geargrind games, can love this game too. For example i farmed like a robot for weeks all ectos / shards needed to craft 2 obsidian armor, i'm used, i can farm fractals 300k times not even feeling the difference, sure. It's a mindset.
Except gw1 was years ago, now we have way better to spend the time with. But well, let's put an imho before someone accuse me to put the law on my post

Gear grinding by itself is not so bad, its being forced to do it in that way that I resent. If any of these people would split up gear equally amonsts, pvp, crafters and PVE it wont be so bad, unfortunately they want us to all kill scripted mobs locked in a dungeon with annoying people, and we cant even kill them, what the hell is that all about.

I have remarked often that if  you want gear progression to be an open system you will have to split it up into components, make pvp drops that only pvpers can get, rare craftables and rare dungeon drops then they will have to buy and sell to each other for multiple gear combinations, its cant be just about PVE, I dont know why this is so damn hard to understand.

Edited by Rhydian, 09 December 2012 - 07:45 AM.

[Lucas Ashrock]

True. I was playing like a robot because deeply in love for necro looks of his obsidian armor, and the monk one too. Absolutely not needed, was a personal target.
Here we MUST grind. No wait, someone will pop with "i can have the same not grindind" hylarious post like on the other thread

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 09 December 2012 - 07:45 AM.

[XgreatArtist]

god not this kind of thread again...
I dont care what you say, it is affecting the fun of the game. And the forum.
Even though everything you said is correct, having tons of threads like this in the general discussion makes gw2 look like utter crapload of shet

Edited by XgreatArtist, 09 December 2012 - 07:46 AM.

[Lucas Ashrock]

XgreatArtist, on 09 December 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

god not this kind of thread again...
I dont care what you say, it is affecting the fun of the game. And the forum.

Do you believe me some still believe Anet employee, who sang the song to care of their community, read this forum (main portal after their main forum) and understand what is wrong on this game? It's called voicing and post opinions, hoping to get a better game. When we want a dev answer, we post on the main forum. If you're bored to read those forums, move out.

p.s. it is, utter crapload of shet

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 09 December 2012 - 07:49 AM.

[XgreatArtist]

Lucas Ashrock, on 09 December 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Do you believe me some still believe Anet employee, who sang the song to care of their community, read this forum (main portal after their main forum) and understand what is wrong on this game? It's called voicing and post opinions, hoping to get a better game. When we want a dev answer, we post on the main forum. If you're bored to read those forums, move out.

p.s. it is, utter crapload of shet

My dear lucas, how do i remove you from my buddy list?

[Lucas Ashrock]

You know me enough, if we are buddies, and where i'm pointing to.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 09 December 2012 - 07:52 AM.

[Eon Lilu]

From what iv been seeing in game and reading on forums, most players think lost shores and ascended items ruined the game and was the worst thing to happen to GW2. Complete waste of a patch, worthless map and items and a complete cluster * up by Anet.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 09 December 2012 - 09:45 AM.

[Robsy128]

Eh, I'm not bothered by the new gear tier. As I'm Squirrel said - it doesn't really give you a great advantage, only a slight one, so people can still play the game together and not worry too much about gear. I mean come on, I was doing a level 10 fractal the other day with a level 27 asura in blue armour. Yet there were level 80s there in full exotic armour. They were slightly better than me, sure, but I still played through the content and I'm one of the worst players around haha.

[Naoroji]

iLag, on 09 December 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

Simply put, Gear-Grind adds a much higher sense of accomplishment once you reach something than getting something that 'looks better'. IF I wanted that I wouldn't play MMORPG's, I'd play something like Sims. At first I thought It would've been awesome but hey it wasn't. Thats why I quit this game and wanted a refund ( But I was too late to... I only played this game for like two weeks btw ). Now that I come back I see this and people complaining. This is one of the best things to happen.

The thing is non-gear grind is NEARLY impossible. The only thing that replaces it is ranking and that is IMPOSSIBLE to create in a MMORPG for PvE.

I like how you imply that gear grind is an integral part of MMORPGs and cannot be removed. The problem is that hardly any even try.

Simply put, gear grind is something they assured us would not be in the game. Gear grind is something the majority of people waiting for Guild Wars 2 for 3 years on these forums did not want.
Then the people like you came, and they tipped the balance even further into 'generic MMO'-territory ('even further' because it was already there, I have to admit), because you complained and clamored for gear grind ('there's nothing to do'). Good on you, mate.

This was supposed to be the one MMORPG that did not have statistical gear grind in any shape or form. That was its purpose. Why couldn't you, and your kind, just play one of the other 10.000 gear grind MMOs out there, hrm?

[DonZardeone]

Death To Gear Grind!
(come on guys, let's make this a thing)

Gear grind is bad in GW2. That's my opinion. It is bad because we all had the impression that there wouldn't be any but they added it anyway.

Death To Gear Grind!

[M1k3l]

A grind through levels of varying degrees of difficulty to get gear does not bother me much.
Combine a grind with RNG and it can get exhausting quickly.
Half my team is ready for level 30 with max Agony resist. The other half does not have a single ring yet.
So we do it again and again and again. This is not fun to myself or my team.
A choice of rewards from a vendor that you can pick from every 10 levels would be far superior imo.

Edited by M1k3l, 09 December 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[Xsiriss]

I don't get how people are so narrow minded in viewing stats as the only tangible sense of progression. Grind may be unavoidable entirely but it doesn't have to be handled in such a generic, mind numbingly dull way. Variety> better stats on things, effort should be put into more skills and balance around them rather than 'durr new tier of stuff'.

[Jason Seven]

iLag, on 09 December 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

Simply put, Gear-Grind adds a much higher sense of accomplishment once you reach something than getting something that 'looks better'. IF I wanted that I wouldn't play MMORPG's, I'd play something like Sims. At first I thought It would've been awesome but hey it wasn't. Thats why I quit this game and wanted a refund ( But I was too late to... I only played this game for like two weeks btw ). Now that I come back I see this and people complaining. This is one of the best things to happen.

The thing is non-gear grind is NEARLY impossible. The only thing that replaces it is ranking and that is IMPOSSIBLE to create in a MMORPG for PvE.

Indeed, it is impossible. I've said it back then and I will say it again: Gear grinds, treadmills and gating systems are the three major components of any MMORPG. Those form the very core of this game genre. If an MMORPG lacks these then it's doomed from the very beginning. If you develop a game and want to make money with it then you have to develop it for the masses not a tiny, niche crowd. The majority wants to get better and better gear not stay on the same power plateau for all eternity and play Barbie's Playhouse by dressing up. If you don't like this idea then MMORPGs just aren't for you at all. ArenaNet doesn't care that you don't like a gear treadmill. They already said that this is how GW2 is going to be. Having higher numbers on your equipment proves that you are better than the rest. People aren't interested in learning how to play, they just want to feel more powerful than anyone else. This feeling cannot be achieved by having horizontal progression. Gear progression is the way to go: higher numbers, more damage, more health, higher levels. I'm looking forward to the first expansion and its increase in the level cap which will also mean higher level gear. There is absolutely nothing to do in this game and that is bad.

I sincerely hope ArenaNet finally realizes this, pumps out content rapidly and introduces new, better gear every few months like any successful MMORPG does. Otherwise GW2 will forever be regarded as a failed, content-lacking game. Why else do you think did GW1 fail this much? If ArenaNet were smart, they'd add gear progression to PVP too. That game mode badly needs some progression.

Edited by Jason Seven, 09 December 2012 - 02:31 PM.

[Zero_Soulreaver]

iLag, on 09 December 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

Simply put, Gear-Grind adds a much higher sense of accomplishment once you reach something than getting something that 'looks better'. IF I wanted that I wouldn't play MMORPG's, I'd play something like Sims. At first I thought It would've been awesome but hey it wasn't. Thats why I quit this game and wanted a refund ( But I was too late to... I only played this game for like two weeks btw ). Now that I come back I see this and people complaining. This is one of the best things to happen.

The thing is non-gear grind is NEARLY impossible. The only thing that replaces it is ranking and that is IMPOSSIBLE to create in a MMORPG for PvE.

Yes because if things were so simple everything would be all hunky dory and everyone would be happy.  It's not that simple to most people.  Things are not so easy when it comes to modern MMO gamers who have seen so much already, casual and hardcore alike.

Not everyone wants the same sort of gear grind they have had in other games because they want GW2 to do something as intended to suit GW2.  Some people did not play GW2 under the impression that it would have the same sort of grind as other games, right or wrong in that way of thinking..it's still very prominent to this discussion.

Stats in GW2 are pretty much a joke which is a huge issue.  No matter what your build is your just going to be going for damage anyways.  Your "role" only lasts a few seconds in battles and it's not in integral part of the game.

Gear grind as a concept is fine, but it has to be done in a way that is unique to GW2 and fully thought out. At the moment, the gear grind just feels sloppy and tacked on last second to please.  It doesn't really help that they(Anet) have no intent of giving us a concept of what they expect from the future with this content.  This just leads to questions and judging from past events even Anet doesn't have any answers which is not good.
-It's like when your seriously dating a girl and she asks what do you expect from the future with her, but you have no answer. Expect to possibly get dumped in a week or so.

It's a slippery slope when a company has no real clue what they intend to do with this content.  "Yea let's release gear grind to endgame"  that just leaves fans saying "what do you plan on doing with this?"  None of what Anet says means anything b/c it all changes in a month, they have not put their foot down on anything.  It helps none of us to pretend we know answers, but speculation is all we have.

[Trei]

I, on 09 December 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure they had gear-grind since release.

The main differences between GW1 and GW2 gear gear-grind is that:

GW1: Armor is more of a collectible item; it is not necessary to grind for max stats. You feel accomplished by collecting them all.

[a] GW2: Gear-grinding is necessary to get max stats+superior rune sets. You feel accomplished when you have max stats.

I definitely prefer GW1's take on armor grinding, the armor sets looked much better than GW2 armor sets, and weren't overly restricted stat-wise.

I WOULD prefer GW2's gear-grind IF it was worth it, but it's not.
1. You get downscaled horribly, whenever facing lower leveled opponents.
2. [b] It barely makes a difference in combat, other than superior runes giving you extra "passive" skills.

If [b], why [a]?

Edited by Trei, 09 December 2012 - 02:53 PM.

[Sheepski]

Minu, on 09 December 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

Always good to meet a generic MMO sheep.

Simply put, do not forget to add "in my opinion".

People should stop bashing the sheep

OP: Like others have said, we have plenty of gear grind games already, were promised a different style, similar to gw1, and now we're moving away from it.

Right now, it's not so bad, I'm pretty much ignoring Ascended gear until it's as cheap and easy to get as exotics, then I might bother. I'd much prefer to buy awesome skins for any/all my characters first.

[Rain King]

Trei, on 09 December 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

If [b], why [a]?

I, on 09 December 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure they had gear-grind since release.

The main differences between GW1 and GW2 gear gear-grind is that:

GW1: Armor is more of a collectible item; it is not necessary to grind for max stats. You feel accomplished by collecting them all.

GW2: Gear-grinding is necessary to get max stats+superior rune sets. You feel accomplished when you have max stats.

I definitely prefer GW1's take on armor grinding, the armor sets looked much better than GW2 armor sets, and weren't overly restricted stat-wise.

I WOULD prefer GW2's gear-grind IF it was worth it, but it's not.
1. You get downscaled horribly, whenever facing lower leveled opponents.
2. It barely makes a difference in combat, other than superior runes giving you extra "passive" skills.

Because gear stats once you hit rare/exotic/ascended do matter. Take a level 80 character to a down leveled area with rare and exotic gear: he will one or two shot some of the enemies and the rest will drop like flies.

Try taking a low level with blue gear into a level 80 fractal dungeon: unless he's the god of the dodge bar he will drop fairly quickly.

The quoted poster's argument contradicts itself.

Edited by Rain King, 09 December 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Arquenya]

iLag, on 09 December 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

Simply put, Gear-Grind adds a much higher sense of accomplishment once you reach something than getting something that 'looks better'. IF I wanted that I wouldn't play MMORPG's, I'd play something like Sims. At first I thought It would've been awesome but hey it wasn't. Thats why I quit this game and wanted a refund ( But I was too late to... I only played this game for like two weeks btw ). Now that I come back I see this and people complaining. This is one of the best things to happen.

The thing is non-gear grind is NEARLY impossible. The only thing that replaces it is ranking and that is IMPOSSIBLE to create in a MMORPG for PvE.

You're entitled to your opinion but apparently you're part of the minority.
Having to replace all your gear with a new level cap or new gear tier isn't exactly what I´d consider great game mechanics. And after all: GW didn't have it and we can't say it wasn't highly rated and didn't sell quite well. The mere fact that ANet still exists, has expanded and gets money from their partent company proves that it was.

There´s still things like player skill, more weapon skills cosmetics and whatever that make people feel like they´re progressing. Goals to accomplish, whatever they are; guild or player housing, beating the hardest dungeon.

Edited by Arquenya, 09 December 2012 - 03:20 PM.

[Dasryn]

id have to disagree a little Arquenya.  there are several people that really wanted something like an extra tier of gear.  there is a guy, he used to really frequent this forum: Red_Falcon - where'd he go?  he doent frequent the forums because he is slammed busy trying to obtain ascended gear because to guys like him (a self proclaimed min/maxer) this was a much needed shot in the arm for GW2.

its sad but this is the norm for MMORPG players these days.  they are expecting to grind in difficult dungeons at max level and what they have to show for it is better gear.  its the natural order of things these days.

personally im indifferent because as someone who never played GW1, i am accustomed to this stuff, but honestly? i was very intrigued and looked forward to the removal of this standardized system.

alas, it was not meant to be, now we must move on and get our ascended gear so that we can advance further in fractal levels so we can get more ascended gear LOL!!!

[Azjenco]

I say give it time. ANet is still in the process of sorting everything out. They've already said that they're looking into how you obtain legendary and ascended gear, and the scavenger hunt for precursors are still on the way.

I just feel it should be more along the lines of, the more you play, the better items you have and get to show off. At present though it's more along the lines of, the more gold you have and the better luck and more time you have to grind, the better your chances are of obtaining the sought after gear.

What I also feel the game should work towards is by level 80 your gear should be nearly all exotics, rare should be the good leveling gear, meanwhile, ascended gear should fulfill that "the more you play, the better the items you have" spot in the game.
Well, that's my opinion on the whole matter.

[Milennin]

iLag, on 09 December 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

Simply put, Gear-Grind adds a much higher sense of accomplishment once you reach something than getting something that 'looks better'. IF I wanted that I wouldn't play MMORPG's, I'd play something like Sims. At first I thought It would've been awesome but hey it wasn't. Thats why I quit this game and wanted a refund ( But I was too late to... I only played this game for like two weeks btw ). Now that I come back I see this and people complaining. This is one of the best things to happen.

The thing is non-gear grind is NEARLY impossible. The only thing that replaces it is ranking and that is IMPOSSIBLE to create in a MMORPG for PvE.

I don't see how an RNG drop of an item with slightly higher stats than you had before could give you a sense of accomplishment?