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#1 SoliasSerene

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 06:32 PM

Inside of 45 days, I'm going to be building a machine with 2 things in mind:  GW2 (and some other, non-important games) and video capture/editing.

The one hold-over from my current computer will be the nVidia GeForce GTX 550Ti I purchased earlier this year.

My goal:  GW2 Maxed @1920x1080 60fps (30+ fps while capturing with Fraps)

I've pretty much nailed down everything I'm going to get except for the CPU.  I'm torn between the i7 3770k and the i5 3570k.  I'm wondering: Is the i7 worth the extra $100 in my case?  I have a feeling that while the i7 is more powerful, it (by itself) will not make a major impact on fps.

For those interested: Here's my current build plans.

Just for the information:  No, I'm not planning on overclocking immediately, but may add improved cooling and do so at a later time.

Thanks in advance.

#2 typographie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:43 PM

View PostSoliasSerene, on 10 December 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

My goal:  GW2 Maxed @1920x1080 60fps (30+ fps while capturing with Fraps)

The 550 Ti is definitely not going to get you to max details and 1080p at constant 60 FPS. Even discounting the slowdowns we all get in crowded combat areas in GW2, the 550 Ti is just way too lightweight to handle that level of detail at high resolution without a big framerate sacrifice.

Fraps may benefit from having room to run extra threads on an i7, as well a having a dedicated hard drive (or better, SSD) to which to save the video. Whether an i7 will help with the video editing portion depends on what software you intend to use. Heavy multithreading is common in that market, but every software package has its own feature set.

Edited by typographie, 11 December 2012 - 04:43 PM.


#3 luckyjj10

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:49 PM

At stock clocks you would probably need two 560 ti's to run like that in a consistent manner.

#4 Quaker

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:18 PM

It's possible that FRAPS would work better with the HyperThreading of the i7, but you'd have to hear from someone with more experience in that setup.
Video editing would benefit from the HT of the i7, but really only when you are compiling the finished video - it might save a few minutes.

So, in your case, it's a bit of a toss-up.

I'm not sure about GW2 in particular, but generally speaking, games don't benefit from HT (no increase in fps).

It might be best to save the $100 and put it toward a better video card or another 550 Ti to run in SLI.

Edited by Quaker, 11 December 2012 - 05:19 PM.


#5 SoliasSerene

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:35 PM

View Posttypographie, on 11 December 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

The 550 Ti is definitely not going to get you to max details and 1080p at constant 60 FPS. Even discounting the slowdowns we all get in crowded combat areas in GW2, the 550 Ti is just way too lightweight to handle that level of detail at high resolution without a big framerate sacrifice.

First, thanks for responding.  :)

Basically what I'm reading is that without the addition of a Video Card I'm not going to attain my goal...What fps should I expect?  40-50?  With the Q6600 based system I have now, I'm pulling 20-30fps (9-11fps in "zerg" situations) on a routine basis, pretty much medium settings for quality.  I can't deal with that any longer, especially the zerg.

Assuming that I could add a video card to my budget - and I would have to stick with the i5 to save the $$$ - what card would give me the best shot at my goal?  I would prefer to have a SINGLE card (don't want to deal with SLI issues) and I'd prefer to stick with nVidia, but will switch to ATI if I can get the "bang for the buck".

BTW, I've done a bit more research and a bit more shopping and have adjusted the build to this.  It still gives me everything I want and saves me a few bucks while improving cooling.

(SIDEBAR:  Is this situation - needing incredible hardware to achieve smooth playback - simply a matter of ANET creating a game ahead of the hardware curve?)

Edited by SoliasSerene, 11 December 2012 - 05:36 PM.


#6 typographie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:52 PM

View PostSoliasSerene, on 11 December 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

(SIDEBAR:  Is this situation - needing incredible hardware to achieve smooth playback - simply a matter of ANET creating a game ahead of the hardware curve?)

That's a complicated thing to answer. GW2 slows badly in heavily populated areas on just about any hardware; that's likely more of a coding/efficiency issue than intentionally designing the game for future hardware. On the other hand, Supersampling is definitely ahead of the hardware curve, practically requiring an HD 7970 or GTX 680 for constantly good performance. The rest of the game is fairly average for a modern game, in my opinion, as far as hardware demands.

The problem in this case is that you cannot simultaneously expect high-end visuals and high-end performance with a low-end video card. To run the game with realistic expectations of high/max settings and ~60 FPS most of the time at 1080p, I'd recommend something like an HD 7850 or GTX 660 or better. Which is definitely not "incredible." :)

And by the way, you can certainly get by with your 550 Ti for a bit if you want to wait on a new video card. You just can't expect 60 FPS at 1080p with high settings in the meantime. It shouldn't affect Fraps much, as that's more of a CPU/RAM/storage-intensive thing.

Edit: I think the i5-3570K is a good choice. Even where they are useful, i7's are easier to recommend for professionals trying to make money from their work.

Edited by typographie, 11 December 2012 - 06:56 PM.


#7 SoliasSerene

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:56 PM

View PostQuaker, on 11 December 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

Video editing would benefit from the HT of the i7, but really only when you are compiling the finished video - it might save a few minutes.

[ ... ]

It might be best to save the $100 and put it toward a better video card or another 550 Ti to run in SLI.

Since I'd be letting the final encoding happen while I slept, the extra few minutes won't matter that much to me.  :)

SLI:  I've generally been turned off by it - mainly because of compatibly issues that I've heard about.  I've also heard that GW2 doesn't benefit from SLI/Crossfire.  I'm I just daft and paranoid for no reason?  (I've never ran an SLI/Crossfire system so I have no actual experience either way.)

#8 SoliasSerene

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:15 PM

View Posttypographie, on 11 December 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

The problem in this case is that you cannot simultaneously expect high-end visuals and high-end performance with a low-end video card. To run the game with realistic expectations of high/max settings and ~60 FPS most of the time at 1080p, I'd recommend something like an HD 7850 or GTX 660 or better. Which is definitely not "incredible." :)

And by the way, you can certainly get by with your 550 Ti for a bit if you want to wait on a new video card. You just can't expect 60 FPS at 1080p with high settings in the meantime.

I think I will hang on to the 550Ti and settle for lower quality, but a higher framerate has got to happen, I simply can't participate in events at 9-11 fps.  Besides, looking at the prices for the GTX 660/HD 7850, I won't be able to add that to the budget anytime soon.  Maybe that will be my first big upgrade after the new build.  :)

#9 Zerk2012

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:42 AM

View PostSoliasSerene, on 11 December 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

I think I will hang on to the 550Ti and settle for lower quality, but a higher framerate has got to happen, I simply can't participate in events at 9-11 fps.  Besides, looking at the prices for the GTX 660/HD 7850, I won't be able to add that to the budget anytime soon.  Maybe that will be my first big upgrade after the new build.  :)

I would get a better case the one you picked only comes with one fan and will cost $ 50 anyhow after shipping. Save $ here
http://www.newegg.co...t=Combo.1160934
Case
http://us.ncix.com/p...re=COOLERMASTER
Good optional fan mount this in the front and move the stock front fan to the top.
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835103072

#10 Quaker

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:50 PM

View PostSoliasSerene, on 11 December 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

With the Q6600 based system I have now, I'm pulling 20-30fps (9-11fps in "zerg" situations) on a routine basis, pretty much medium settings for quality.  I can't deal with that any longer, especially the zerg.
The CPU matters a lot when it comes to WvW and large events (zergs). With an i5-3570K you can expect your zerg performance to be closer to 30 fps. With the 550 Ti though, your basic fps won't change as much - maybe to 40-60 fps.

#11 Treble

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:42 PM

View Posttypographie, on 11 December 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Fraps may benefit from having room to run extra threads on an i7, as well a having a dedicated hard drive (or better, SSD) to which to save the video.

View PostQuaker, on 11 December 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

It's possible that FRAPS would work better with the HyperThreading of the i7, but you'd have to hear from someone with more experience in that setup.
FRAPS doesn't benefit much from HT.

Getting a 3570K and using the $100 to buy a secondary 1TB HDD to record on will be a much bigger performance gain in terms of recording.

#12 SoliasSerene

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 06:19 PM

View PostTreble, on 12 December 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Getting a 3570K and using the $100 to buy a secondary 1TB HDD to record on will be a much bigger performance gain in terms of recording.

I've already got the hard drives...I've got 4 saved waiting on the rest of the system (2x750GB and 2x1TB).  Gonna put those sets together in RAID0 and use the 750s for the OS/Games/Programs and the 1TBs for data (videos, screenshots, etc.)

#13 Treble

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:31 PM

View PostSoliasSerene, on 12 December 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

I've already got the hard drives...I've got 4 saved waiting on the rest of the system (2x750GB and 2x1TB).  Gonna put those sets together in RAID0 and use the 750s for the OS/Games/Programs and the 1TBs for data (videos, screenshots, etc.)
Oh, sweet.

Use that $100 on a better video card then. :P

That 550 Ti is quite underpowered. I wouldn't go lower than a 660 Ti, personally.

#14 Elder III

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:49 PM

What is your total budget?  If you make use of combo deals and shop the current sales you should be able to do better than what you have right now...

#15 Treble

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:56 PM

View PostElder III, on 14 December 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

What is your total budget?  If you make use of combo deals and shop the current sales you should be able to do better than what you have right now...
+1

My current PC's build cost $1800 a couple months ago if I bought all the parts from Newegg.

However, I took the best prices from Amazon, Newegg, and Tigerdirect and ended up paying only $1200. Always good to shop around.

Edited by Treble, 14 December 2012 - 07:56 PM.


#16 SoliasSerene

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:54 PM

View PostElder III, on 14 December 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

What is your total budget?  If you make use of combo deals and shop the current sales you should be able to do better than what you have right now...

Total budget is $600 MAX.  Which is why a video card...for right now at least...out of the question.  I will take a bit of time and save some more money and look for a better card when I can afford it.

Thanks for all the input folks.  Unless my mind (or budget) changes, I think I'm going to go with this setup:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/vWEh

#17 Elder III

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 04:01 AM

If you don't plan to run SLI in the future you could likely save ~$30 on the motherboard, but that one you selected is a good model.  You don't happen to live near a MicroCenter do you?  They have some excellent CPU/Mobo combos (in-store only).

#18 typographie

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 03:20 PM

View PostSoliasSerene, on 06 January 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

Total budget is $600 MAX.  Which is why a video card...for right now at least...out of the question.  I will take a bit of time and save some more money and look for a better card when I can afford it.

Thanks for all the input folks.  Unless my mind (or budget) changes, I think I'm going to go with this setup:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/vWEh

That's a great setup to start with, and like I said earlier, a 550 Ti will do fine in GW2 for now if you don't mind dropping details a little. Referring back to your original post, if you don't intend to overclock immediately you don't strictly need the Hyper 212 cooler right now, so you could postpone that and free up $30. The Intel stock cooler should certainly be able to handle an i5 at stock settings.

If you decide to try to find a cheaper, non-SLI motherboard as Elder suggested, just make sure its still got the SATA support you need for your RAID. I know you don't need SLI itself, but non-SLI boards may be lower-end models and you may lose some SATA ports along with it.

#19 simon2508

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:07 AM

Hey guys. i'm building a computer on a low budget so i need som advice how well this build up can run GW2.

CPU:
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819113283
or
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819113282

Motherboard:
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813131885

Memory:
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820104362

Hard drive:
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822136769

Graphic card:
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814121633
or
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814121632

Please respond :) Thanx in advance!

#20 Quaker

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:08 PM

A build based around an AMD APU is more designed for a very basic 'media' build which doesn't use a separate video card. In some cases you can combine an APU with a discrete video card for "dual graphics" mode but I don't think the HD7750 or HD 7770 can be used that way.

The CPU portion of the A6 APU is relatively weak, so, since you are using an HD7750/7770, you could get a better CPU.

I would go along with Tom's Hardware recommendation and suggest an Intel G860 CPU
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819116405

And combine that with an appropriate motherboard such as:
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813157303

That will give you a clean upgrade path to a better i3 or i5 CPU later.

The RAM and hard drive choices are as good as any, and the HD7750/7770 are the best bang for the buck at this time.

http://www.tomshardw...clock,3106.html

----------------------

If you wanted to stick with AMD, you might be better off (than with the APU) by getting a regular AM3+ CPU such as an Athlon II x4 640 and appropriate AM3+ motherboard.
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819103871

Edited by Quaker, 09 January 2013 - 05:14 PM.


#21 Straegen

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:19 PM

Speaking of Toms Hardware, I find their builds tend to be solid and a great guide. Their $500 PC will run Skyrim on Ultra in 1080p at nearly 60fps.

http://www.tomshardw...er,3364-11.html

Follow their build guide and you will know what to expect.

#22 simon2508

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:50 PM

Okey now i think i got it, thanks a lot for the help.
im going to put the final parts here so you can take a final look to see if all parts will work with eachother.

CPU:
http://www.multitron...750KWOHJBOX&b=1
Motherboard:
http://www.multitron...id=970 PRO3&b=1
Graphic card:
http://www.multitron...01-L0UAY0BZ&b=1
Hard drive:
http://www.multitron...=WD5000AZRX&b=1
Memory:
http://www.multitron...16C9T3K2/8X&b=1

Edited by simon2508, 09 January 2013 - 09:59 PM.


#23 Quaker

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:26 PM

FM2 cpu, AM3 motherboard. See other post......




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