64 replies to this topic

[DreadlockrastaGW]

Venereus, on 11 December 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

It's not supposed to help you win, it's designed to give you increased rewards for whatever victories you can muster while fighting against the odds. You still gotta win your own battles.

Well when it's 2v40 outside the gate, all the outmanned buff does is help you kill the lv 1 critters in the spawning point.

[LavaSquid]

we might get pawned by the NPC commander

[NumNumPie]

Venereus, on 11 December 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

It's not supposed to help you win, it's designed to give you increased rewards for whatever victories you can muster while fighting against the odds. You still gotta win your own battles.

Increased rewards? Get PvE out of my PvP. I don't care for rewards. I want a buff that actually does something to help me win battles. Not some experience buff.

[chullster]

So death tax can no longer be avoided by logging out, lucky I managed to map wvw areas on at least one character, will not be going back to WvW ever if forced to spend silver just to complete explorer PvE objectives.

[cookieeater1]

I'm curious as to what 'in combat' will be defined as. If it's just the state that you're put in when you take damage then there could be instances where you fall and DC straight after, which would result in armour repairs. If that is indeed the case then I would prefer something more like the Dishonourable state in GW1 where if you DC, you won't be able to enter WvW for X minutes. Of course, if 'in combat' is better defined then I'm all for the proposed change.

Edited by cookieeater1, 11 December 2012 - 08:36 AM.

[FriendlyFire]

Honestly the Alt+F4 change has no effect on anyone that I play with and we total a couple hundred hours a week in WvW. Get over it.

[Spiritus]

I'm more courios how did they implement that...
- How many ppl it needs to be trolling at starting point for him to activate?

- He goes only to the first tower? they know towers for example Lake have 3 walls who can be destroy and one gate? He can fallow us on every wall? Or at Briar, if we take that wall bellow the bridge... he knows how to get to that place?

- Hes invurnerable? if he is, whats the point fighting him?... no one will ever conquer Lake or Briar

[Kaiarra]

FriendlyFire, on 11 December 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Honestly the Alt+F4 change has no effect on anyone that I play with and we total a couple hundred hours a week in WvW. Get over it.

Lucky you. Sadly, it does mildly screw over people with extra repairs when they DC because of their crappy ISPs - Seems a bit of a dumb change as WvW isn't really about 1v1 fights, and I can't believe anyone really cares about 1 person logging off when they're busy fighting 19 others... Quite frankly, I don't think repairs should even be included in WvW at all, considering the amount of money sinks it already contains.

Goojilla, on 10 December 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

Hopefully servers don't just leave one opposing tower for the enemy to prevent break out events. They sound like a lot of fun!

And... yeah that's what my guildies were all saying on TS this morning. They hate the idea, they hate more PvE being added to PvP, and they're just going to try to work around it by refusing to cap a tower... mainly because letting opposing servers zerg in 100+ people to a map with 'super free insta supply' build 10+ golems because you capped everything, would be a pretty dumb idea.

I'm not so bothered about the whole PvE in PvP thing, but I really do think this event is going to cause more trouble than it fixes, and will just result in a mandatory 'always leave x tower uncapped' mentality. Think they would have been far better making the outmanned buff actually grant stats that are useful when outmanned...

[Pusha]

Kaiarra, on 11 December 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

And... yeah that's what my guildies were all saying on TS this morning. They hate the idea, they hate more PvE being added to PvP, and they're just going to try to work around it by refusing to cap a tower... mainly because letting opposing servers zerg in 100+ people to a map with 'super free insta supply' build 10+ golems because you capped everything, would be a pretty dumb idea.

I'm not so bothered about the whole PvE in PvP thing, but I really do think this event is going to cause more trouble than it fixes, and will just result in a mandatory 'always leave x tower uncapped' mentality. Think they would have been far better making the outmanned buff actually grant stats that are useful when outmanned...

Exactly.  Besides the wall update, the rest of the updates are trash.

[Spiritus]

I understand alt+F4 and warning before server reset but..... did anyone ask for that Breakout crap? or anet staff is on LSD again?

[Vihar]

I knew they were going to do something about the AltF4 players, every MMO has to do that now, with this lame generation of PVPers who can't take a whack to their fragile egos.

   I am happy they did it, and surprised it came so quickly....but timely, as it was getting really bad.

   As for the Breakout...I am in favor of ANYTHING that keeps competitive PVP going. If one side is getting WTFPWNED, I am in favor of anything that keeps them on the map and rallying for some more PVP.

  Spawncamping sucks and is bad for PVP.

  They should give the old Orb buffs to the players in the Breakout event, also.

   Hell, they should do something just to get people back into WvW...some kind of event announcement in the PVE maps. Just get them there.

[lioka qiao]

The whole problem with spawn camping is noone thinks about how to defeat it even though anet gave us obvious solutions.  We all just derp into the crowd mindlessly.  Since noone is willing to realize there are 3 paths out of every spawn point that cant possibly be guarded by enough force to keep us in, anet is giving us an easy way out via the breakout event.

How to beat a spawn camp:
1.  Muster your zerg
2.  Pick an exit other than the front door.  They're on the sides.
3.  Go out that exit
4. ???  (pick an objective and sack it, the enemy is obviously not defending them if they're balled in front of your spawn, or if your force is big enough do a rear attack on the spawn campers)
5. Profit.

[Venereus]

DreadlockrastaGW, on 11 December 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

Well when it's 2v40 outside the gate, all the outmanned buff does is help you kill the lv 1 critters in the spawning point.

There are 3 exits, just use one that's not camped by 40 enemies.

NumNumPie, on 11 December 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

Increased rewards? Get PvE out of my PvP. I don't care for rewards. I want a buff that actually does something to help me win battles. Not some experience buff.

WvW is not PvP, it's a mix between PvE and PvP. You are not entitled to a buff that helps you win battles, if your server doesn't bring the numbers to fight then you don't deserve to win.

Kaiarra, on 11 December 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

Quite frankly, I don't think repairs should even be included in WvW at all, considering the amount of money sinks it already contains.

Upgrades and siege cost money, but most PuGs don't pay for those. Think about it, if you don't spend gold on upgrades/siege and then you didn't have to pay repairs, you wouldn't lose any money when playing WvW. Repairs are the only consistent WvW gold sink.

Edited by Venereus, 11 December 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[Zheo]

It never ceases to amaze me the self-entitlement of some people.  We hear cries of "ANet doesn't give a shit about WvW" and "I'm uninstalling until they fix WvW" and "OMG they only care about PVE casuals", yet when ANet gives us a few changes we find people to tear these ideas apart and demand something else.

People, they are making changes and improvements. Be thankful that your cries are being answered, and remember that you were complaining that they weren't doing anything. Rome wasn't built overnight.

[two maces]

Flake, on 10 December 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

Finally, thank god.  People who use this mechanic should die in a fire.  *OH NOES YOU CANT GET MY BADGES!!*

So people have 1-2s to assess the situation and alt-f4 BEFORE they enter combat. Unless you jump them.

[CalmLittleBuddy]

I've already thought of 3 meta game 'uses' for break out events. One came right away, the other two I had to think for 3 seconds to come up with and I can tell 4 and 5 are just waiting to pop as well. EDIT: As for leaving 1 tower, thanks for the permanent foothold, and who's to say the 'other' server will comply with this? Good luck leaving free points and access. WORSE than getting free supply and insta buffs is giving the enemy two things it always needs: HOPE and POSITION.

No more alt F4 is awesome! If only I could get all the badges that this little gem deprived me of... Anyone else notice it was always thieves who alt F4? Not all thieves do it, but never seen a warrior or guard do it. Closest thing to that I've ever done was cliff dive out of spite to deprive someone of the kill.

This should hold me over until Feb. Maybe they'll even throw us another bone in January!

Edited by CalmLittleBuddy, 11 December 2012 - 03:37 PM.

[Wotah]

chullster, on 11 December 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

So death tax can no longer be avoided by logging out, lucky I managed to map wvw areas on at least one character, will not be going back to WvW ever if forced to spend silver just to complete explorer PvE objectives.

Really?  You never died in a pve zone?

[Lalnuir]

I personally like this changes.
The only one I'm uncertain about is the break out event, will have to wait until the patch and see the specifics before i decide if i like it or not.

CalmLittleBuddy, on 11 December 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

I've already thought of 3 meta game 'uses' for break out events. One came right away, the other two I had to think for 3 seconds to come up with and I can tell 4 and 5 are just waiting to pop as well. EDIT: As for leaving 1 tower, thanks for the permanent foothold, and who's to say the 'other' server will comply with this? Good luck leaving free points and access. WORSE than getting free supply and insta buffs is giving the enemy two things it always needs: HOPE and POSITION.

No more alt F4 is awesome! If only I could get all the badges that this little gem deprived me of... Anyone else notice it was always thieves who alt F4? Not all thieves do it, but never seen a warrior or guard do it. Closest thing to that I've ever done was cliff dive out of spite to deprive someone of the kill.

This should hold me over until Feb. Maybe they'll even throw us another bone in January!

If you hit someone and they jump off a cliff you still get loot and exp. You would have to jump off the cliff before you get attacked and in that case you can just way point anyway.

I have also seen every class alt f4. You might of just seen more thieves because they are the most common roamer class and in my experience people don't alt f4 in larger group fights as often as they do in small fights.

[Xai]

MrZero, on 11 December 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

It specifically says shutting down the client process via Alt+F4 etc while fighting. The way it reads, if you are in combat when you disconnect.

Yes, I know. That's what concerns me. I'm all for penalties if Alt-F4ing while downed, but less so if it applies for all combat situations. Lots of people have disconnect issues in this game, especially when there are big battles in WvW.

OTOH, I'm sure that if they only applied the penality to downed people, the number of Alt-F4ers who are 'merely' outnumbered/outmatched would escalate. So, if we're reading it right, perhaps it's for the best.

[CalmLittleBuddy]

Lalnuir, on 11 December 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

I personally like this changes.
The only one I'm uncertain about is the break out event, will have to wait until the patch and see the specifics before i decide if i like it or not.



If you hit someone and they jump off a cliff you still get loot and exp. You would have to jump off the cliff before you get attacked and in that case you can just way point anyway.

I have also seen every class alt f4. You might of just seen more thieves because they are the most common roamer class and in my experience people don't alt f4 in larger group fights as often as they do in small fights.

You don't get loot unless you do a lot of damage. I was over half health. You'll get a little exp. 45 maybe? No bonus. And you're sure you've seen every class do it? That's kinda tough to do unless you get in a lot of 1 v 1s. And while we're at it, anuthing else I said you want to dispute? Maybe I left a hanging participle or something?

[Lalnuir]

CalmLittleBuddy, on 12 December 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

You don't get loot unless you do a lot of damage. I was over half health. You'll get a little exp. 45 maybe? No bonus. And you're sure you've seen every class do it? That's kinda tough to do unless you get in a lot of 1 v 1s. And while we're at it, anuthing else I said you want to dispute? Maybe I left a hanging participle or something?

A lot of damage? I was on my level 36 guardian earlier today doing 300-500 damage a hit and still getting loot off people I only hit 3-5 times. Sorry but that is not a lot of damage.
I main a thief, I roam a lot. So yes I do get into a lot of 1v1s and other small scale fights and I have seen every class alt f4.

As for disputing your claims, it's nothing personal. My experiences are just different from yours.

[CalmLittleBuddy]

Lalnuir, on 12 December 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

A lot of damage? I was on my level 36 guardian earlier today doing 300-500 damage a hit and still getting loot off people I only hit 3-5 times. Sorry but that is not a lot of damage.
I main a thief, I roam a lot. So yes I do get into a lot of 1v1s and other small scale fights and I have seen every class alt f4.

As for disputing your claims, it's nothing personal. My experiences are just different from yours.

Man, I must be doing something wrong. I burn people down and get zero loot. Maybe 1 out of 20 kills I get a drop. You get drops from barely scratching people? Either you're doing more damage than you think or it's not about damage at all. Weird. I've chased people down to half, they jump and die and I get NOTHING. Not even exp. Had it happen just last night. I swear on my fat face. So unfair.

[Lalnuir]

CalmLittleBuddy, on 12 December 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

Man, I must be doing something wrong. I burn people down and get zero loot. Maybe 1 out of 20 kills I get a drop. You get drops from barely scratching people? Either you're doing more damage than you think or it's not about damage at all. Weird. I've chased people down to half, they jump and die and I get NOTHING. Not even exp. Had it happen just last night. I swear on my fat face. So unfair.

I do not know, being in a party in cursed shore is suppose to make it easier to tag mobs maybe it works the same in WvW? Maybe that is why I got drops on my guardian despite my only offensive skill I used being my staff auto-attack and only getting 3-4 hits off most of the time.

I have got drops on my thief when running solo from people who jump or fall off cliffs after I've only hit them for 3-4k damage, only had that happen a couple of times thou mostly they are <50% hp when they jump.
I don't get drops all the time but often enough that I don't see any difference in drop rate from players who die to falling damage compared to players you stomp on.

[CalmLittleBuddy]

Lalnuir, on 12 December 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

I do not know, being in a party in cursed shore is suppose to make it easier to tag mobs maybe it works the same in WvW? Maybe that is why I got drops on my guardian despite my only offensive skill I used being my staff auto-attack and only getting 3-4 hits off most of the time.

I have got drops on my thief when running solo from people who jump or fall off cliffs after I've only hit them for 3-4k damage, only had that happen a couple of times thou mostly they are <50% hp when they jump.
I don't get drops all the time but often enough that I don't see any difference in drop rate from players who die to falling damage compared to players you stomp on.

I feel so ripped off. I'm going to try and group up and see if that helps. Glad you mentioned it. Sorry for mr. cranky post earlier. Got bad news this week. Not myself.

[Krisa]

Intresting hmmm , the wall thing doesn't come back till 10% is good and bad , good for attacking bad for when your defending..

That Alt f4 thing lol imo just like what? So you get in a fight and if u alt f4 you instantly die and drop loot and such , hmm idk but to me that is just a bit over kill , i mean just put a 30sec timer b4 they pop out of the game , basicly the samething i guess , but other games if you alt f4 you don't log out right away so just implament that , rather tehn it killing you lol.

[jimmie51]

Krisa, on 12 December 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

Intresting hmmm , the wall thing doesn't come back till 10% is good and bad , good for attacking bad for when your defending..

That Alt f4 thing lol imo just like what? So you get in a fight and if u alt f4 you instantly die and drop loot and such , hmm idk but to me that is just a bit over kill , i mean just put a 30sec timer b4 they pop out of the game , basicly the samething i guess , but other games if you alt f4 you don't log out right away so just implament that , rather tehn it killing you lol.

I was thinking the same thing at first, but then I thought about it more and if some loser is going to alt f4 so they don't take the loss then screw them let them die. I would add total armor damage to it and make the lamers pay for the repair. I would even be ok if they gave you the first time as a get out of jail free card in case of a DC at the wrong time. But if it happens like say more than once in an hour you get a massive penalty. I hate cheaters sorry

Edited by jimmie51, 12 December 2012 - 09:34 PM.

[lioka qiao]

jimmie51, on 12 December 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

I was thinking the same thing at first, but then I thought about it more and if some loser is going to alt f4 so they don't take the loss then screw them let them die. I would add total armor damage to it and make the lamers pay for the repair. I would even be ok if they gave you the first time as a get out of jail free card in case of a DC at the wrong time. But if it happens like say more than once in an hour you get a massive penalty. I hate cheaters sorry

Bout this whole alt-f4 thing:  learn to play fits for everyone who abuses it.
I wanted to learn how to kill and saw a spawn camp happening on borderlands.  I thus took out 1 gold and expected to blow it all on repair bills while I figured things out.  Guess what.  I'm more efficient at killing instead of dieing and i didn't end up blowing all that 1g.   Moral:  instead of panicking and hitting alt f4, take some money out and learn to play your class expecting to blow all that money on repairs.  You'll benefit from the experience more than having that 1g you were saving for nothing.

[MrZero]

lioka qiao, on 12 December 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

Bout this whole alt-f4 thing:  learn to play fits for everyone who abuses it.
I wanted to learn how to kill and saw a spawn camp happening on borderlands.  I thus took out 1 gold and expected to blow it all on repair bills while I figured things out.  Guess what.  I'm more efficient at killing instead of dieing and i didn't end up blowing all that 1g.   Moral:  instead of panicking and hitting alt f4, take some money out and learn to play your class expecting to blow all that money on repairs.  You'll benefit from the experience more than having that 1g you were saving for nothing.

True. also, running away makes it 100% certain you will die. If you try, they might panic because they wonder what you have up your sleeve.

[Craywulf]

NumNumPie, on 11 December 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

Increased rewards? Get PvE out of my PvP. I don't care for rewards. I want a buff that actually does something to help me win battles. Not some experience buff.

You're not seeing the big picture, increased rewards means gaining the access to better weapons and armor, which ultimately improve your chances in battle... permanently, unlike a buff which is often temporary.

[Siphaed]

I feel that these changes are for the better. I'm really glad that they're giving the Breakout Event, especially on crap-maps that are always spawn camped. This'll also boost the moral of the troops who are like "screw this, we can't take anything!" and leave the map.