59 replies to this topic

[MayorOfBartertown]

http://gw2skills.net...glALLWOskYt Y8B
To hell with a description, this build only needs an instruction.

Play it like an ass, and you will be fine.  Trust me.

Edit: Link fixed.  No longer using 2 Hammers.

UpdaTED: Had no runes on the weapons.

Edited by MayorOfBartertown, 13 December 2012 - 11:24 PM.

[Kyris]

i tested this build on my guardian and instantly got to rank 100 in pvp. best build ever.

[Absolute13]

Don't know what to say... We may have new meta here!

[eiland]

looks interesting, but y not this:
http://gw2skills.net...VCnBHlRXPgIMshA ?

[Soryuju]

eiland, on 12 December 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

looks interesting, but y not this:
http://gw2skills.net...VCnBHlRXPgIMshA ?

I'm guessing because he/she wants the synergy between Healing Breeze and Healer's Retribution.  It's not that widely known, but some on-heal traits activate every time a heal skill pulses (e.g. the Ranger's Vigorous Renewal trait will pulse Vigor every 3 seconds when you're standing in the area of the Healing Spring skill, not just once when you activate it).  Healing Breeze pulses 5 times in 2 seconds, so by taking Healer's Retribution, you're stacking 15 seconds of Retaliation whenever you heal (more with boon duration investment and the Vengeful trait).  Currently, it's the only reason to run Healing Breeze outside of a very dedicated support build, and Healing Breeze is the only reason to take Healer's Retribution.  If you want to run a Retal build and can deal with HB's quirks as a heal skill, the trait will boost your uptime significantly.

Edited by Soryuju, 12 December 2012 - 06:38 PM.

[MayorOfBartertown]

If you want a video I'll make one, but I won't promise it'll be good lol.

I wanted to make an Endurance style build without bunkering, with decent mobility.  I used to use Retreat in my U1 slot, but Judge's intervention is beast as shit for closing on dudes (1200 range), plus you can prefire your abilities into it (meaning ninja style popins that land 90% of the time.

I'd like to make more notes, but I feel like playing more than I feel like typing.  Let me see if I can get a stream up, and you can judge it for yourself.  I do know that I've built to playstyle than to min max, so it is what it is.

EDIT:  Gimme like an hour, just got some burritos lol.  I'll set the stream up once the itis wears off .

Edited by MayorOfBartertown, 12 December 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[SpreadCheeks]

What armor, etc... etc... to go with this build?

Edited by SpreadCheeks, 12 December 2012 - 08:58 PM.

[MayorOfBartertown]

SpreadCheeks, on 12 December 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

What armor, etc... etc... to go with this build?

I'm ALMOST pretty sure I'm using the default runes, but if I'm not then I'm stacking crit sigils.  I'll check when get back in game.  Right now, it's burrito time.

[Absolute13]

I really hope that everyone who reads this post understands that the build is VERY bad and should not be used in ANY gametype. If you couldn't tell this from two first replies, you should definitely learn what sarcasm means.

If you want proper builds, send message to Aodan. I usually don't bother to educate people here but if you need urgent help with guardian builds i'm here for you.

[MayorOfBartertown]

Absolute13, on 12 December 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

I really hope that everyone who reads this post understands that the build is VERY bad and should not be used in ANY gametype. If you couldn't tell this from two first replies, you should definitely learn what sarcasm means.

If you want proper builds, send message to Aodan. I usually don't bother to educate people here but if you need urgent help with guardian builds i'm here for you.

And this is the part where I repeat that I'm playing to playstyle, not to min/max.  Hilarious thing is that it's damn effective, given that this build got made due to an offhand comment about hammer being terrible.

Also, this burrito is delicious.

Edited by MayorOfBartertown, 12 December 2012 - 09:20 PM.

[MayorOfBartertown]

LOL My bad, someone just told me the link was bad.

http://gw2skills.net...AKsMYJwyilDLJWA

2 HAMMERS is 2 pro apperently.

Edited by MayorOfBartertown, 13 December 2012 - 01:34 AM.

[Liquid Sword]

I Tried this build, but modified it to be based on shouts.  Also used the + boon duration runes to bolster retal duration.  If i spammed ALL the retal skills, I can stack up to a minute of retaliation.

http://en.gw2skills....AKsMYJwyilDLJWA

This build is very effective, you can activate retaliation whenever you need it from several sources.  I may replace Superior aria with Wrathful spirit and test that.

[MayorOfBartertown]

Updated with runes.  And no, I didn't forget to list them.  I wasn't using them lol.  DERP

[Soryuju]

Did you mean to list the Shaman's Amulet with the build?  Because the only condition damage you have comes from Burning, and you don't have that much burning damage in the build.  Retaliation damage scales with Power, if that's what you're going for, so the Soldier's Amulet would be a much better choice.  You get much more HP, too, which scales better than healing power or toughness.  Condition damage ruins you with your current setup.

I'm assuming this is mostly a fun build, that, like you said, is built for your playstyle, but I'd still recommend changing your runes, since you have very few blocks for the Guardian Runes to proc on.  Power-based runes like Ogre would be a good option, or if you want to keep up the retaliation theme, you could use Air Runes to punish opponents attacking you.  I'd switch a couple traits, too - drop Glacial Heart for Purity (you've got a 9% crit rate, and the Chill effect isn't that substantial).  Your condition removal is limited your 2 utilities right now, and condition damage will ignore your high armor rating. Also swap Resolute Healer for Writ of Exaltation, which benefits both your GS and Hammer, increasing both your offensive and defensive presence.  I'd also recommend trying to find room for "Stand Your Ground!" which is arguably the Guardian's best all-around utility.  JI would probably be what I'd swap for it, though this would reduce your mobility and make landing skills like Banish harder, so I'd encourage you to experiment with it.

Anyways, that's my two cents.  If this is actually just a troll build (based on early reactions in the thread), than I am indeed trolled, but if not, I hope it helped.

[MayorOfBartertown]

Soryuju, on 14 December 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

Did you mean to list the Shaman's Amulet with the build?  Because the only condition damage you have comes from Burning, and you don't have that much burning damage in the build.  Retaliation damage scales with Power, if that's what you're going for, so the Soldier's Amulet would be a much better choice.  You get much more HP, too, which scales better than healing power or toughness.  Condition damage ruins you with your current setup.

I'm assuming this is mostly a fun build, that, like you said, is built for your playstyle, but I'd still recommend changing your runes, since you have very few blocks for the Guardian Runes to proc on.  Power-based runes like Ogre would be a good option, or if you want to keep up the retaliation theme, you could use Air Runes to punish opponents attacking you.  I'd switch a couple traits, too - drop Glacial Heart for Purity (you've got a 9% crit rate, and the Chill effect isn't that substantial).  Your condition removal is limited your 2 utilities right now, and condition damage will ignore your high armor rating. Also swap Resolute Healer for Writ of Exaltation, which benefits both your GS and Hammer, increasing both your offensive and defensive presence.  I'd also recommend trying to find room for "Stand Your Ground!" which is arguably the Guardian's best all-around utility.  JI would probably be what I'd swap for it, though this would reduce your mobility and make landing skills like Banish harder, so I'd encourage you to experiment with it.

Anyways, that's my two cents.  If this is actually just a troll build (based on early reactions in the thread), than I am indeed trolled, but if not, I hope it helped.

First, I'm going to take all of this into account.

Secondly, yes it's a troll build in the sense that I decided to troll kids with El Hammer, but other than that, I am CURRENTLY using this build.

Condition dmg isn't really as much of a factor as you think it is to this build, unless someone is able to A) constantly apply different damaging conds (bleeds/poison/fire/etc) after my cleansing CDs are both down.  By that time, I've usually scoped the situation so that I have 3 options:

1) Kick ass.
2) Delay the enemy (anywhere from 20-45 secs depending on how many enemies).
3) Move ass.

Unless someone can get a 20+ stack up on me and keep it on me, it's usually not an issue.  It's even better people dump Cond Dmg on you thinking LOL TOUGHNESS, then you pop Purity and now you are powered up with boons.  If they don't have any Cond CD's left, it's bad times for them.

Strangely enough, I like SYG for Aquatic fights, but not so much on dry land.

The build itself is meant to be very active, either pressuring or mobile.  It CAN fight in place, but it's more with footwork in mind.  As corny as this is going to sound, I wanted to make a build that had more solo surivivabilty than what I was using before, but WITHOUT using bunker (as way to many guardians do, and most are bad at it).  The way this plays, I can wade into combat, I just have to pay close attention when I do.

Edited by MayorOfBartertown, 14 December 2012 - 01:47 AM.

[Green]

Retribution is strong, and your synergies are interesting Ill give you that.

Do you play Hot join 5v5 or 8v8, Free or Paid tourneys? The answers to those questions may explain why your seeing success for the time being.

[MayorOfBartertown]

Green, on 14 December 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

Retribution is strong, and your synergies are interesting Ill give you that.

Do you play Hot join 5v5 or 8v8, Free or Paid tourneys? The answers to those questions may explain why your seeing success for the time being.

Most of the time I'm puggin it, or doin free tournies.  Haven't done any paid tournies in a minute as my playtime is hella irregular now.

I know that this probably won't stand up in paid, but there's no reason for me not to try it if I get the chance... and if it does, then hey.

Edited by MayorOfBartertown, 14 December 2012 - 01:52 AM.

[Green]

MayorOfBartertown, on 14 December 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

Most of the time I'm puggin it, or doin free tournies.  Haven't done any paid tournies in a minute as my playtime is hella irregular now.

I know that this probably won't stand up in paid, but there's no reason for me not to try it if I get the chance... and if it does, then hey.

Yep all good, and you've made my point.

[Aodan]

Absolute13, on 12 December 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

Don't know what to say... We may have new meta here!

Sarcasam? Some very questionable things about this build even if it's a Hot Join one.
1. Why Breeze instead of Shelter considering your Runes 5*?
2. Why Glacial Heart instead of Defenders Flame, against in combination with Shelter and your Runes 5*
3. Why Shamans, when you have nothing to really utilize the healing with?
4. Why not invest more into such as a Soldier neck for higher power, as you have multiple ways to gain Retal which will net more damage than the burning you will do?
(sword 4*, Virtues minor 15)
5. Why not Wrathful Spirit instead of Resolute Healer

By questions, I mean this is what you should change. You have the basics down for a good strong retal build much similar that used in competitive pvp meta, the condition damage you will deal even with decent up time on burning isn't enough.

Condition appliers deal damage not through just one condition, but multiple, a guardian is not a conditioner in any form.

MayorOfBartertown, on 14 December 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

Most of the time I'm puggin it, or doin free tournies.  Haven't done any paid tournies in a minute as my playtime is hella irregular now.

I know that this probably won't stand up in paid, but there's no reason for me not to try it if I get the chance... and if it does, then hey.

There are many builds that work in paid that aren't as effective in hot join and vice versa, the problem is practicing a bad hot join build only makes it worse when you transition to paid/free for you and your team.

[MayorOfBartertown]

Swapped zerkers amulet in, shaman jewel.

The decreased time to kill an enemy makes up for the toughness lost.

I'll test more later, but right now it's bowl time lol.

[MayorOfBartertown]

Aodan, on 14 December 2012 - 02:31 AM, said:

Sarcasam? Some very questionable things about this build even if it's a Hot Join one.
1. Why Breeze instead of Shelter considering your Runes 5*?
2. Why Glacial Heart instead of Defenders Flame, against in combination with Shelter and your Runes 5*
3. Why Shamans, when you have nothing to really utilize the healing with?
4. Why not invest more into such as a Soldier neck for higher power, as you have multiple ways to gain Retal which will net more damage than the burning you will do?
(sword 4*, Virtues minor 15)
5. Why not Wrathful Spirit instead of Resolute Healer

By questions, I mean this is what you should change. You have the basics down for a good strong retal build much similar that used in competitive pvp meta, the condition damage you will deal even with decent up time on burning isn't enough.

Condition appliers deal damage not through just one condition, but multiple, a guardian is not a conditioner in any form.



There are many builds that work in paid that aren't as effective in hot join and vice versa, the problem is practicing a bad hot join build only makes it worse when you transition to paid/free for you and your team.

Meh, right now, I'm just playing the game.  I'm not so much worried about spvp/tpvp progression, so to speak.  I do understand the principle of the matter with builds and team comp, but I've always found experience to be the best teacher.  Kinda like not having any runes/traits slotted and not knowing it (lol)... derp move, but it made me learn the weapons real tough.

[Aodan]

MayorOfBartertown, on 14 December 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

Meh, right now, I'm just playing the game.  I'm not so much worried about spvp/tpvp progression, so to speak.  I do understand the principle of the matter with builds and team comp, but I've always found experience to be the best teacher.  Kinda like not having any runes/traits slotted and not knowing it (lol)... derp move, but it made me learn the weapons real tough.

And the feedback your getting is from someone who has played the game a lot and experienced the progression of guardians.
This is no different than League or CoD, if you play with subpar combinations in what you can customize about your play, you will only achieve subpar results.

There is no condition guardian because as of now, they only have BURNING, which isn't comparable to Ele, Necro, Mes, or Engi who can apply 2-3 conditions regularly versus just one who has a very short duration and is meant simply to be reactive damage like Retal in the play of a guardian.

I would highly suggest watching streams of top QP guardians and compare and contrast your play and theirs. That alone will increase your level of play drastically.

Edited by Aodan, 14 December 2012 - 02:48 AM.

[JaxSilven]

I'm pretty convinced he's just trolling, and not in the sense that he's able to keep enemies stonewalled for a while. If anybody were to run this, in tpvp at the very least, they'd drop so fast anytime they were in any fight tbh.

[MayorOfBartertown]

JaxSilven, on 14 December 2012 - 03:10 AM, said:

I'm pretty convinced he's just trolling, and not in the sense that he's able to keep enemies stonewalled for a while. If anybody were to run this, in tpvp at the very least, they'd drop so fast anytime they were in any fight tbh.

I almost wish I were trolling because the amount of incredulity in some of these responses is mad hilarious.

But when you have someone make the comment "(Insert name here) doesn't afraid of anything" after seeing you run in 1v4, live long enough to prevent a cap, and let the rest of the team catch up and blow down everyone in range... and live to tell about it 75% of the time.

This is not a stand in place build, but if you think you can't teamfight with this, than I don't know what to tell you.  I do it all the time, most of it as the initiator.  I'm actually kinda looking forward to testing this in paid now, if only because there's going to be way less sources of inc fire.

Aodan, on 14 December 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

And the feedback your getting is from someone who has played the game a lot and experienced the progression of guardians.
This is no different than League or CoD, if you play with subpar combinations in what you can customize about your play, you will only achieve subpar results.

There is no condition guardian because as of now, they only have BURNING, which isn't comparable to Ele, Necro, Mes, or Engi who can apply 2-3 conditions regularly versus just one who has a very short duration and is meant simply to be reactive damage like Retal in the play of a guardian.

I would highly suggest watching streams of top QP guardians and compare and contrast your play and theirs. That alone will increase your level of play drastically.

I'm not playing this as a condition guardian.  I'm playing it as a footwork and timing guardian.  I won't be so crass as to say I can't learn something from watching high level play, but I don't need to watch a thing.  I think it's really funny that everyone here seems to be like "I can't believe it, you must be trolling,"   but in game, it's more like, "How the F are you still alive?"

Edited by MayorOfBartertown, 14 December 2012 - 03:30 AM.

[Milkhead]

not trying to be disrespectful and apology if i offend anyone.

but as soon as i saw gracial heart i stopped looking further.

[Aodan]

MayorOfBartertown, on 14 December 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

I almost wish I were trolling because the amount of incredulity in some of these responses is mad hilarious.

But when you have someone make the comment "(Insert name here) doesn't afraid of anything" after seeing you run in 1v4, live long enough to prevent a cap, and let the rest of the team catch up and blow down everyone in range... and live to tell about it 75% of the time.

This is not a stand in place build, but if you think you can't teamfight with this, than I don't know what to tell you.  I do it all the time, most of it as the initiator.  I'm actually kinda looking forward to testing this in paid now, if only because there's going to be way less sources of inc fire.



I'm not playing this as a condition guardian.  I'm playing it as a footwork and timing guardian.  I won't be so crass as to say I can't learn something from watching high level play, but I don't need to watch a thing.  I think it's really funny that everyone here seems to be like "I can't believe it, you must be trolling,"   but in game, it's more like, "How the F are you still alive?"

Go into Paids or Frees and fight a real team and say that.

[MayorOfBartertown]

Aodan, on 14 December 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

Go into Paids or Frees and fight a real team and say that.

Ya'll dudes need to chill lol.  Everyone is so caught up in what it is that they are doing with this game that they lack perspective.

What that means is that the build got put up because someone asked for it, after seeing me wreck people with it. Not every build is for every purpose and I know that.  But the crazy shit is that you guys are so dismissive of anything that doesn't fall into your playing mentality, instead of looking at the possibilities. As is right now, if I play right, 5 people can unload on me, and I can survive it..  Do I think that I'm going to beat a team 1v5?   No, especially if they have synergy.  But as is, it allows for "box-and 1" style approaches and initiations.

If the build info doesn't help you, then keep it pushing.

tl;dr.  Build works damn well for what I need it do, enough to the point that people asked, "What are you running?"   Curb the elitism, as it's unneeded.

Edited by MayorOfBartertown, 14 December 2012 - 09:36 AM.

[Green]

MayorOfBartertown, on 14 December 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

tl;dr.  Build works damn well for what I need it do, enough to the point that people asked, "What are you running?"   Curb the elitism, as it's unneeded.

When you invite the world to comment on your ideas, best be prepared to take some heat. Your initial post is pretty ballsy with some lofty claims, gets the natives restless. That being said, I agree, at your level it really doesn't matter other than what is fun and works for you.

Keep plugging away, and enjoy the game how ever you want to play it.

[MayorOfBartertown]

Green, on 14 December 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

When you invite the world to comment on your ideas, best be prepared to take some heat.

Preaching to the choir on that one, but I don't settle for shitty behavior.  Meaning there's many effective ways of critiquing, and when people start getting away from the meat-and-potatoes of the build, and immediately go "this is ineffective", then I'm probably going to be less apt to listen to you.  That's just real talk.

Better yet... it's like I'm at the park messing around on the court, and I do some fly shit.  Then someone says, "Wow, that was fly (lol)"   and I reply, "Here's how you do this fly shit"... then someone walks up and says, "meeeeh, you'll never play in the NBA doing that!"

If you're telling me that I'm wrong for staring dead at that kid like he's a lame, then we just aren't built the same, no disrespect.

Edited by MayorOfBartertown, 14 December 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[Aodan]

MayorOfBartertown, on 14 December 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

   As is right now, if I play right, 5 people can unload on me, and I can survive it..   Build works damn well for what I need it do, enough to the point that people asked, "What are you running?"   Curb the elitism, as it's unneeded.

It has nothing to do with elitism, it has to do with you gauging your build against unskilled players in an environment that means absolute squat.

I guarantee you, if you fought one good Necro, Engi, or Ele, you would lose 1v1 let alone 5v1. If you are surviving 5v1 in any instance, you are playing against very bad players, it doesn't mean your build is good.

So sir, your argument is very invalid

Your real argument is, " My build does well against below average players when I play it at the best, the poorly optimized build plays."

I'm actually trying to be nice and guide you in a direction that could help you improve and learn but instead, you decide to defend a poorly done build with feedback in hot join against bad players.

Milkhead, on 14 December 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

not trying to be disrespectful and apology if i offend anyone.

but as soon as i saw gracial heart i stopped looking further.

Almost didn't comment on the build when I saw this, but I gave my 2cents and taking my leave from this. I'm sorely disappointed that there are people who think Hot Join has any real concrete feedback for builds.

Green, on 14 December 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

When you invite the world to comment on your ideas, best be prepared to take some heat. Your initial post is pretty ballsy with some lofty claims, gets the natives restless. That being said, I agree, at your level it really doesn't matter other than what is fun and works for you.

Keep plugging away, and enjoy the game how ever you want to play it.

And I would agree, for the most part of "play the game, the way you want to play" but this thought also is what leads to "this class is OP or this is broken" from the very same players who gauge this from hot join 8v8 bs.

Edited by Aodan, 14 December 2012 - 10:45 AM.